Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1440221 times)

Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24240 on: August 15, 2019, 11:45:13 am »
Yeh, like him or loathe him Corbyn is probably going to be pretty important over the next few months so the professionals involved  - the MPs etc - really need to bite their tongues and accept that and thereafter see what they can do, and how they can work work him, influence him, persuade him, bribe him, corral him or even trick him, into scuppering Brexit.

Maintaining the 'purity' of your anti-Corbynism is not going to help anyone.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24241 on: August 15, 2019, 11:46:13 am »
Hmm, it's pressing is it?

How come your man didn't call a vote of no confidence in Johnson when he had the chance, instead of standing on a platform outside parliament to be verbally felated by Richard Burgon and a gang of two hundred SWP weirdos.
Because it would have failed. The Tory rebels had stated they weren't prepared to pass a VONC the day after Johnson became PM.
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24242 on: August 15, 2019, 11:46:29 am »
Hmm, it's pressing is it?

How come your man didn't call a vote of no confidence in Johnson when he had the chance, instead of standing on a platform outside parliament to be verbally felated by Richard Burgon and a gang of two hundred SWP weirdos.

Corbyn isn't 'my man' but he's called it now at point where he feels confident he has some backing to do so, evidenced by the willingness from other parties (less the Lib Dems) to come to the table.

So what difference does it make really? He's done it. Unless of course you're more arsed about having a pop at 'my man' than you are about preventing no deal, like the Lib Dems.

Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24243 on: August 15, 2019, 11:48:09 am »
Corbyn isn't 'my man' but he's called it now at point where he feels confident he has some backing to do so, evidenced by the willingness from other parties (less the Lib Dems) to come to the table.

So what difference does it make really? He's done it. Unless of course you're more arsed about having a pop at 'my man' than you are about preventing no deal, like the Lib Dems.
To be pedantic :), he hasn't done it - he's indicated he will do it 'as soon as it looks likely to succeed'.
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Offline filopastry

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24244 on: August 15, 2019, 11:48:43 am »
Yep, that should have been the message. The Lib Dems are in danger of claiming some of the 'credit' for this going disastrously wrong themselves, if they're not careful. If the reason for not supporting a Corbyn anti-no-deal temporary government is that the Tory rebels won't support it, let the Tory rebels say that.

Of course in reality, the Lib Dems are also putting party a little ahead of country, and don't want Labour to recover any partial credit for heading off a no deal.


I agree they absolutely are.

It's a problem all round though, a more Corbyn friendly LibDem party is likely to struggle more in the Tory marginals they are fighting in the South West, and Labour needs them to make inroads there to help deprive the tories of a majority. Current leadership of Labour just sees the LDs as the enemy as much as the Tories are.

That attitude doesn't help when it comes to putting together a GNU, it also won't help if it comes to Labour needing other party support to get into govt (which realistcially looks the only way they would be likely to get into govt at present)

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24245 on: August 15, 2019, 11:49:12 am »
To be pedantic :), he hasn't done it - he's indicated he will do it 'as soon as it looks likely to succeed'.

 ::)

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24246 on: August 15, 2019, 11:50:10 am »
Because it would have failed. The Tory rebels had stated they weren't prepared to pass a VONC the day after Johnson became PM.

I believe the vote wouldn't actually have happened until the first day back in Sept, the reason to call it then was to give time because of the timetable to Brexit and/or another election
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 11:52:12 am by filopastry »

Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24247 on: August 15, 2019, 11:53:56 am »
I believe vote wouldn't actually have happened until the first day back in Sept, the reason to call it then was to give time because of the timetable to Brexit and/or another election
Sorry you're right - though certainly the rebels were talking about giving Johnson time to see how he would approach the issues in government and it might have pushed them into a more supportive position, or allowed Johnson to focus more on the 'dangers of Corbyn'.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24248 on: August 15, 2019, 12:00:51 pm »
I don't see how Corbyn has the right to lay down conditions to bring the VONC, he's been calling for another GE every week for the last year. the problem is is he telling other parties they have to support him as leader before he agrees to call the VONC. is this what he means by only calling a VONC when he knows it can be won as that isn't true. MPs opposed to Johnson will support the VONC , it's about what happens next. I think the MPs will support Corbyn eventually, they maybe wanting him to go on record for making the VONC conditional, he will only call it if he knows he will become leader, he is making a big mistake.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24249 on: August 15, 2019, 12:15:34 pm »
Lucas was pretty sensible in what she said

Quote
I welcome Corbyn’s Vote of No Confidence & will support his temporary Govt to avoid No Deal (tho would prefer #PeoplesVote before General Election)
But if he can’t gain confidence of House, will he commit to support an MP from his party or another who can?

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24250 on: August 15, 2019, 12:18:13 pm »
Yeh, like him or loathe him Corbyn is probably going to be pretty important over the next few months so the professionals involved  - the MPs etc - really need to bite their tongues and accept that and thereafter see what they can do, and how they can work work him, influence him, persuade him, bribe him, corral him or even trick him, into scuppering Brexit.

Maintaining the 'purity' of your anti-Corbynism is not going to help anyone.
I don't disagree with any of that. But how many of us here will trust Corbyn do as expected/instructed? Suppose he starts going off on tangents, the last thing the GoNU will wish to do is scrap it all and attempt to start over. Corbyn is a duplicitous, sneaky snake, and nearly everyone knows it. This is why it is difficult for me to see how he could command the confidence of the majority of the House.

So, Corbyn will try to get his way (to be come PM). It will be difficult for the potential GoNU to refuse, but they will have every expectation of him failing in his duty to them and the country. If the potential GoNU instead go against Corbyn, he will do everything he can to prevent the GoNU from forming. He's a fucking horrible human being. Stupid. Small. Selfish. Oh, and - did I mention - stupid.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24251 on: August 15, 2019, 12:31:46 pm »
So, Corbyn will try to get his way (to be come PM). It will be difficult for the potential GoNU to refuse, but they will have every expectation of him failing in his duty to them and the country. If the potential GoNU instead go against Corbyn, he will do everything he can to prevent the GoNU from forming. He's a fucking horrible human being. Stupid. Small. Selfish. Oh, and - did I mention - stupid.

Not to argue that point, but I expect the offer from the Tory rebels to meet will be precisely to establish a very detailed timeline of exactly what a Corbyn caretaker government would do - and if it isn't very, very specific (and probably publicly committed to), I imagine they will reject Corbyn as a potential PM. People like Grieve and Letwin have a much better grasp of parliamentary processes than Corbyn seems to.

The interesting wording in the statement from those four Tories would be "... happy to meet with you as well as colleagues from other opposition parties". I wonder if Grieve/Boles/Letwin/Spelman would want long term colleagues on this issue like Yvette Cooper and Hillary Benn in the room; and how the Labour leadership would react to that.



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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24252 on: August 15, 2019, 12:45:58 pm »
Does the antisemitism row just go away then? Are you all guilty of putting stopping a no deal Brexit over Jews?

Quote
*LAAS Statement: Our Concern at MP Support for a Jeremy Corbyn Government*
- “It should be the first red line of any genuinely antiracist MP that Mr Corbyn be kept away from power”.
- Full statement attached or link below.


https://twitter.com/LabourAgainstAS/status/1161933171837022209
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 12:48:24 pm by ShakaHislop »

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24254 on: August 15, 2019, 12:52:01 pm »
Does the antisemitism row just go away then? Are you all guilty of putting stopping a no deal Brexit over Jews?

https://twitter.com/LabourAgainstAS/status/1161933171837022209
Save it for the next GE, this is about kicking Johnson out before 31st Oct and getting a referendum or a GE to vote in MPs who will support another referendum.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24255 on: August 15, 2019, 12:53:41 pm »
Though I can understand the concerns of LAAS, Corbyn would not be a PM in the ordinary sense. Now, I don't trust Corbyn to perform his duty as leader of a potential GoNU as he should, but I think there is zero chance of him being able to enact (for example) anti-Semitic legislation. He will try to fuck about with his obligations to prevent a No-Deal Brexit, but I cannot see how he would be able to anything of consequence unrelated to that.

Or, is there something I'm missing?
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Offline Andy

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24256 on: August 15, 2019, 01:34:12 pm »
Or, is there something I'm missing?

A unity government needs a leader that people can unite behind. As someone said already, he can't unite his own party.

I'm not convinced he'll try to enact anti-Semitic legislation (!!) but I don't trust his stance on Brexit, or how he'll try to steer the EU debate after avoiding No Deal.

Lib Dems want no Brexit and this still seems at odds with what Corbyn wants - although the latter might be changing now...

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24257 on: August 15, 2019, 01:34:46 pm »
The interesting wording in the statement from those four Tories would be "... happy to meet with you as well as colleagues from other opposition parties". I wonder if Grieve/Boles/Letwin/Spelman would want long term colleagues on this issue like Yvette Cooper and Hillary Benn in the room; and how the Labour leadership would react to that.

Soubry wasn't included on the distribution list for Corbyn's letter so there's one leader of an opposition party...
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24258 on: August 15, 2019, 01:41:21 pm »
So what difference does it make really? He's done it. Unless of course you're more arsed about having a pop at 'my man' than you are about preventing no deal, like the Lib Dems.
There's that default childish tribal response :D

No I'm more arsed about preventing no deal, for sure. That's why I'm quite pro Corbyn leaving his position after his many failings.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24259 on: August 15, 2019, 01:43:44 pm »
Start with preventing no deal shall we? Probably more pressing.

Constant calls to be grown up and pragmatic soon go out of the window as soon as its the centrists needing to compromise.

Look at it from the longer term perspective. This is to get another stay to 'no deal'. There then has to be a general election which the Tories lose and a majority is in place (Labour minority government or whatever) to see through a referendum and revocation of Article 50. That's not happening if Lib Dems don't take seats from the Tories in the south by holding onto and winning over people who will vote Tory. And they don't take those seats having put an extremely unpopular Labour leader into Downing Street. So is Corbyn being pragmatic and compromising or offering a poison pill? Is this the opening bid of not rejecting the idea out of hand or the final offer?

Labour leadership was told by conference that 'no deal' was to be avoided at all costs, a general election was the first named thing, and then "If we cannot get a general election Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote." Compromise on this isn't one way or it won't work. And expecting other parties to kneel to zod will work out as well as expecting the half of the Labour vote which has gone missing to do so.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24260 on: August 15, 2019, 01:44:11 pm »
Save it for the next GE, this is about kicking Johnson out before 31st Oct and getting a referendum or a GE to vote in MPs who will support another referendum.

So put the antisemite lightning rod in power because Labour moderates couldn't get their act together and kick him out before now? Yeah, no.

Parliament doesn't exist to wipe the arse of the constant mess that is the Labour Party. They should get their own house in order before having the gall to criticise anyone else.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 01:46:22 pm by ShakaHislop »

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24261 on: August 15, 2019, 01:44:38 pm »
A unity government needs a leader that people can unite behind. As someone said already, he can't unite his own party.

I'm not convinced he'll try to enact anti-Semitic legislation (!!) but I don't trust his stance on Brexit, or how he'll try to steer the EU debate after avoiding No Deal.

Lib Dems want no Brexit and this still seems at odds with what Corbyn wants - although the latter might be changing now...
I totally agree that Corbyn would be a hugely problematic choice as leader of a GoNU. But, if he forces the choice upon all those opposing No-Deal, what are they to do? If they do not play ball, I am certain that Corbyn will do everything he can to ensure that a GoNU never happens. He's as big a monster as Johnson.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24262 on: August 15, 2019, 01:45:55 pm »
So put the antisemite lightning rod in power because Labour moderates couldn't get their act together and kick him out before now? Yeah, no.
If Labour MPs grow spines, then of course no to Corbyn. But, in the main, they have been pretty spineless so far. So what to do then? Genuine question. I really do not know.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24263 on: August 15, 2019, 01:48:06 pm »
So what difference does it make really? He's done it. Unless of course you're more arsed about having a pop at 'my man' than you are about preventing no deal, like the Lib Dems.

Out of interest: if you had to choose between No Deal and preventing it with a unity government not led by Corbyn, which would you choose?

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24264 on: August 15, 2019, 01:48:39 pm »
If Labour MPs grow spines, then of course no to Corbyn. But, in the main, they have been pretty spineless so far. So what to do then? Genuine question. I really do not know.

It's a no to putting Corbyn into power no matter what. It's Labour who is forcing this choice on everyone else.

Streeting showing himself up here, after months of bleating about antisemitism.

https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1161885193910804483

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24265 on: August 15, 2019, 01:49:32 pm »
Tell me, is Lucas still the favourite, or has that time passed now? If so - and I've not seen her name mentioned - what about (and I cannot quite believe I am suggesting this), Anna Soubry as PM (in a GoNU)?
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24266 on: August 15, 2019, 01:50:03 pm »
I totally agree that Corbyn would be a hugely problematic choice as leader of a GoNU. But, if he forces the choice upon all those opposing No-Deal, what are they to do? If they do not play ball, I am certain that Corbyn will do everything he can to ensure that a GoNU never happens. He's as big a monster as Johnson.

It doesn't have to be the choice though - that is why Swinson is speaking to Ken Clarke, Harman etc...

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24267 on: August 15, 2019, 01:50:06 pm »
A unity government needs a leader that people can unite behind. As someone said already, he can't unite his own party.

I'm not convinced he'll try to enact anti-Semitic legislation (!!) but I don't trust his stance on Brexit, or how he'll try to steer the EU debate after avoiding No Deal.

Lib Dems want no Brexit and this still seems at odds with what Corbyn wants - although the latter might be changing now...
He won't be PM after avoiding No Deal (unless he wins an election).

I have significant reservations about Corbyn, but MPs not trusting him seems redundant; he literally can't do anything without their support.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24268 on: August 15, 2019, 01:51:40 pm »
So put the antisemite lightning rod in power because Labour moderates couldn't get their act together and kick him out before now? Yeah, no.

Parliament doesn't exist to wipe the arse of the constant mess that is the Labour Party. They should get their own house in order before having the gall to criticise anyone else.
What power?
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24269 on: August 15, 2019, 01:54:04 pm »
What power?

The power of Prime Minister. I don't give a fuck if he was only PM for 1 minute. I never want, nor should he ever be PM for any length of time and I fully support Swinson's stance on this.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24270 on: August 15, 2019, 01:54:14 pm »
It doesn't have to be the choice though - that is why Swinson is speaking to Ken Clarke, Harman etc...
I understand this. But two problems: 1) how many Labour MPs will (openly) support someone other than Corbyn; and 2) isn't a VoNC reliant upon Corbyn calling for one!? Won't Corbyn just fuck off with his ball if he does not get his own way?
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24271 on: August 15, 2019, 01:55:06 pm »
Tell me, is Lucas still the favourite, or has that time passed now? If so - and I've not seen her name mentioned - what about (and I cannot quite believe I am suggesting this), Anna Soubry as PM (in a GoNU)?
In many ways, I don't think it matters who the PM is, given they'll need to be working to quite a specific, pre-agreed programme of steps to prevent a No Deal and to implement an election/referendum (personally, I'd hold both on the same day).

Ken Clarke/Harriet Harman as the senior figures of the House? Grieve? Letwin? Benn? Vince Cable? Don't really mind.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24272 on: August 15, 2019, 01:56:16 pm »
The power of Prime Minister. I don't give a fuck if he was only PM for 1 minute. I never want, nor should he ever be PM for any length of time and I fully support Swinson's stance on this.
Fair enough - so you've made your choice and are willing to accept No Deal to die on the hill of not having Corbyn as PM for a minute.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24273 on: August 15, 2019, 01:57:31 pm »
In many ways, I don't think it matters who the PM is, given they'll need to be working to quite a specific, pre-agreed programme of steps to prevent a No Deal and to implement an election/referendum (personally, I'd hold both on the same day).

Ken Clarke/Harriet Harman as the senior figures of the House? Grieve? Letwin? Benn? Vince Cable? Don't really mind.
Neither do I. Any of them in the circumstances. But, who of them would command enough support across the House? And, what if Corbyn refuses to call a VoNC?
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24274 on: August 15, 2019, 01:57:40 pm »
The power of Prime Minister. I don't give a fuck if he was only PM for 1 minute. I never want, nor should he ever be PM for any length of time and I fully support Swinson's stance on this.

Well I hope you enjoy Brexit, then.

I'm off to stock up on tins of beans.


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A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24275 on: August 15, 2019, 01:58:37 pm »
Fair enough - so you've made your choice and are willing to accept No Deal to die on the hill of not having Corbyn as PM for a minute.

And you're willing to ignore how awful Corbyn is, and absolve the waste of space that is the rest of the Labour PLP of all blame. Good luck taking the moral high ground.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24276 on: August 15, 2019, 02:00:34 pm »
Well I hope you enjoy Brexit, then.

I'm off to stock up on tins of beans.


#cutnoseofftospiteface

The Brexit that the man you're asking the Lib Dems to put into power has been supporting over the past 3 years? I hope it's as good as he thinks it can be.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24277 on: August 15, 2019, 02:02:31 pm »
Neither do I. Any of them in the circumstances. But, who of them would command enough support across the House? And, what if Corbyn refuses to call a VoNC?
On the last point, I'm not sure he can refuse, politically. Whatever support remains for Corbyn amongst the cosmopolitan urban young vote would disappear.

If he calls one and other parties refuse to accept him as interim PM - and he refuses to accept anyone else - then we're at the whim of Johnson's election scheduling, but Corbyn can claim to have tried to stop No Deal (how hard is another matter).

If the Labour leadership refuses to back a Grive/Clarke/Harman government, they'll pay an electoral price for it. Much of this seems to be brinkmanship, like much else in Brexit world.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24278 on: August 15, 2019, 02:07:50 pm »
On the last point, I'm not sure he can refuse, politically. Whatever support remains for Corbyn amongst the cosmopolitan urban young vote would disappear.

If he calls one and other parties refuse to accept him as interim PM - and he refuses to accept anyone else - then we're at the whim of Johnson's election scheduling, but Corbyn can claim to have tried to stop No Deal (how hard is another matter).

If the Labour leadership refuses to back a Grive/Clarke/Harman government, they'll pay an electoral price for it. Much of this seems to be brinkmanship, like much else in Brexit world.
That's all fine and dandy, but since when has political reality informed Corbyn's decision making process? What you are saying makes sense, except, you know, Corbyn.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24279 on: August 15, 2019, 02:08:58 pm »
On the last point, I'm not sure he can refuse, politically. Whatever support remains for Corbyn amongst the cosmopolitan urban young vote would disappear.

If he calls one and other parties refuse to accept him as interim PM - and he refuses to accept anyone else - then we're at the whim of Johnson's election scheduling, but Corbyn can claim to have tried to stop No Deal (how hard is another matter).

If the Labour leadership refuses to back a Grive/Clarke/Harman government, they'll pay an electoral price for it. Much of this seems to be brinkmanship, like much else in Brexit world.

My hope he'd call a VONC before recess was because I worry that he'll obfuscate again, knowing every day without it is harmful to chances of fitting in options around parliamentary schedule and is a victory for brexiteers.

I worry it won't be called for as long as he and Seumus think they can get away with it (plausible deniability wise), so maybe day three back