Topic: Macbook/Macbook Pro thread

[SP]

Got a work MBP. Slightly underwhelmed. Vastly prefer my previous job’s Linux laptop. Spend more time fighting against the bits of Linux they hide than benefiting from the flashy gloss on top.

[Claire.]

Macs and Apples can seem a bit forced/strange/weird.

To you! There's loads of windows that doesn't make sense to me.

clicking the top bar is also a thing on windows but cmd-control-F will make an app fullscreen on Mac and give it it's own space and access by ctrl + arrows or cmd+tab or even three fingers drag down on the trackpad, or the green ball has options like tiling or fullscreen now. Lots of ways and lots of choice.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

To you! There's loads of windows that doesn't make sense to me.

clicking the top bar is also a thing on windows but cmd-control-F will make an app fullscreen on Mac and give it it's own space and access by ctrl + arrows or cmd+tab or even three fingers drag down on the trackpad, or the green ball has options like tiling or fullscreen now. Lots of ways and lots of choice.

Absolutely agree.

You'd probably be the same with most Linux Desktops as they seem to have taken the same usability route as Windows.

Windows and Linux machines are very, very different behind the front-end, but the experience is fairly similar.

Apples go off on a wibbly world of their own which is fine when you've been using them forever

i've never used and never intend to use the Mac keyboards or mouse pads - same as most of my laptops. In the very, very, very few times when I use them as a laptop, I bring along my mouse and BT keyboard.

Never use mousepads or laptop keyboards. Yuk

[PaulF]

i've never used and never intend to use the Mac keyboards or mouse pads - same as most of my laptops. In the very, very, very few times when I use them as a laptop, I bring along my mouse and BT keyboard.

Never use mousepads or laptop keyboards. Yuk

I think this could be the cause of the problem. I've seen people whizzing about on the trackpad so guess it's good once you are familiar. I wouldn't dream of not using mouse and keyboard and scroll wheel though. I guess the OS is designed to work with the trackpad etc, so we miss out.

Not sure why I have to unfullscreen a window, to minimise it though (or at least I can't get the yellow - sign at the top unless I've hit the green one first).

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I think this could be the cause of the problem. I've seen people whizzing about on the trackpad so guess it's good once you are familiar. I wouldn't dream of not using mouse and keyboard and scroll wheel though. I guess the OS is designed to work with the trackpad etc, so we miss out.

Not sure why I have to unfullscreen a window, to minimise it though (or at least I can't get the yellow - sign at the top unless I've hit the green one first).

My biggest problem is that maximised windows vanish and you have to display all windows to see it appear randomly on a screen you don't want.

Then no way will it move to the window you want it on. Only solution I've found is to close it and re-open and hope that it doesn't appear in invisible land

Does my head in that I can't turn the Mac laptop display off when using external monitors as well. Absolutely mental.

I think the answer to your question about the sheer apparant nuttiness of the fullscreen is that it sticks it in its own workspace rather than actually fullscreening

Great if you want different workspaces, but I've got four monitors, so total waste of space and time for me. Guess it's useful if you are just using the one screen. But in this day and age people don't honestly do that do they? So when you're trying to change it you need to put it back into your workspace then you can access it like an actual window.

Had the same problem in work where we are using Slack and stuff and you can't draw on their screen as they have fullscreened it and it's gone into another space than slack, so they have to bring it back and tit about with it making it manually bigger on their workspace so it can actually be used.

Loads of great ideas with Apple, but so much stuff that doesn't play nicely with third-party software and since 95% of stuff I use on the Mac is third-party software...

[Claire.]

I do use the Mac keyboard and trackpad on both of mine and only ever single screen. Don't know how you're living without things like gestures and force-click etc!

You can quickly maximise an app by going to any corner with the resize arrow there, hold option and double click. If you click and drag, it'll pull all directions from a corner and both sides with option held.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I do use the Mac keyboard and trackpad on both of mine and only ever single screen. Don't know how you're living without things like gestures and force-click etc!

You can quickly maximise an app by going to any corner with the resize arrow there, hold option and double click. If you click and drag, it'll pull all directions from a corner and both sides with option held.

Nice one, I'll give that a go cheers

I use my laptops like desktops to be fair - so USB Keyboard/Mouse with 3 switches to computers

For all the rest I remote onto them using Royal TSX - So the other Windows, Linux and Mac boxes.

I've actually got 6 usable screens, plus the 7 laptop displays if I feel I need them

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Tried those key commands on Kindle (Which when maximised always goes to the unturnoffable Mac Laptop screen) - and.. it crashed

Now doesn't want to appear on any window. And now won't launch even. Hard crash every time now. Guess I'll have to uninstall and re-install my library once again. Bloody hell.

Hey ho.

Apple engineers are clearly obsessed with you using their crappy main laptop display. You can't turn the bloody thing off and when you change another monitor to be 'the main display' the first thing is does it to move every bloody application back to the sodding laptop display so you have to painstakingly move all the bloody shit back onto the display you actually want it on - you know, the one you want to use as a main display.

They clearly were on crack when they designed the display part of their OS. Makes no sense whatsoever.

The way that the community suggests you turn it off is to close the lid. Given the programs I'm running while developing, this causes the Mac to get alarmingly hot to the touch. There is also a fair degree of WHY would you WANT to turn that off - which seems to be in the minds of the Apple developers also.

On Windows or Linux for instance, you specify whatever display you like and extend or turn it off. It doesn't treat your laptop display as 'special' in any way - nor should it.

The other recommended 'solution' (I shit you not on a modern computer) is to get a magnet and put it near your display

[Andy @ Allerton!]

So now, my Royal TSX is literally invisible.

It's clearly running. But where?

When I click on the 'Show all windows' it appears (for fucks sake) on the Retina display as a small rectangle with 'Overview' under it.

1. What the hell is it doing there
2. When you click on it why does it close and go back to main displays
3. How the hell can I get this application, running on my machine to display on my machine


This is bonkers


Ok, sorted that out. Not sure what sense this makes, but for an application (that for reasons best known to itself) that cannot be displayed on any display (!) you do 'show on all displays' then right-click and then it actually becomes an application that's visible in some way.

Not sure what practical use that has to be honest with you.

[PaulF]

My macbook lid is nearly permanently closed. but then I use my one, big , monitor to rdp onto a windows server (which I use a win 10 desktop rather than as a proper server)
I've just remembered, rdp allows multiple monitors for nice splitty screens I think. I may have to try that....

[Riquende]

I still do in many ways out of pure habit. I'd worry more about anyone taking the time to write a post in a Mac-thread on how much they prefer Windows (and not for the first time either) 

Mac hardware is great. I've got a 2012 iMac (smaller screen) which I've been able to open up, lob an i7, more RAM and an SSD in there and it's a fantastic thing to sit on the desk still, looking fancy. I've got a 2012 15" MBP that I've done similar to (except it started with an i7). Aside from the battery life and the lack of modern ports, it's great and far more capable than any 10 year old PC laptop would be.

Mac software is... not my preference, which is why I run W10 on both exclusively, started with Bootcamp and nuked the OSX partitions to get the space back.

See, easy?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Mac hardware is great. I've got a 2012 iMac (smaller screen) which I've been able to open up, lob an i7, more RAM and an SSD in there and it's a fantastic thing to sit on the desk still, looking fancy. I've got a 2012 15" MBP that I've done similar to (except it started with an i7). Aside from the battery life and the lack of modern ports, it's great and far more capable than any 10 year old PC laptop would be.

Mac software is... not my preference, which is why I run W10 on both exclusively, started with Bootcamp and nuked the OSX partitions to get the space back.

See, easy?

"far more capable than any 10 year old PC laptop would be"


Based on?

[Riquende]

"far more capable than any 10 year old PC laptop would be"


Based on?

Okay, not 'any'. Let's say far more capable than the average laptop from 2012 would be currently at general tasks. I worked with plenty of business models from that era as our school was going through BSF at the time and had a full equipment refresh from 2011-2013.

I've never bought a laptop new so I don't have much experience with consumer models.

Obviously there's the issue of cost - the Mac was likely three to four times more expensive than most of those laptops originally. But then none of them had quad core i7 processors, so it's not just build quality but also spec that was better.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Okay, not 'any'. Let's say far more capable than the average laptop from 2012 would be currently at general tasks. I worked with plenty of business models from that era as our school was going through BSF at the time and had a full equipment refresh from 2011-2013.

I've never bought a laptop new so I don't have much experience with consumer models.

Obviously there's the issue of cost - the Mac was likely three to four times more expensive than most of those laptops originally. But then none of them had quad core i7 processors, so it's not just build quality but also spec that was better.

Fair enough. When I buy laptops, I tend to buy high-end top spec ones that aren't 'Business ones' and are still pretty respectable today.

Mac hardware actually tends to lag behind non-Mac hardware because, although it uses good stuff, it charges a lot, lot more for it.

Compare the specs on a top-end Apple Macbook Pro and look at the price. Then go to a site like Overclockers and find a similarly specc'd laptop and you'll be fairly astonished by the difference - plus usually the laptop is way, way faster than the Mac. But the reason why the Macs are good are because of the OS.

I might have doubts about the hardware, but the OS (When it's not being an obtuse knobend) is good because it's all 'joined up' (On Windows, I use WSL2 and Windows Apps that dont' always tally up)

The answer really is to just use Linux which is wonderful, but the Apps available on Mac and Windows just aren't available.

So it's all a question of swings and roundabouts. I tried playing the odd game for a laugh on the i9 Macbook pro I bought and it's hilariously slow. I use a couple of older Windows boxes I still have (for dev purposes mainly on my network) and both of those compare well to the Mac specs. They simply aren't games machines.

It seems a bit strange that you've got a Mac (great OS for what it is) and that's the only reason to have one and you've binned it

[Riquende]

It seems a bit strange that you've got a Mac (great OS for what it is) and that's the only reason to have one and you've binned it

It's because I paid Ł20 for the MBP and Ł50 for the iMac when they were decommissioned 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It's because I paid Ł20 for the MBP and Ł50 for the iMac when they were decommissioned 

Can't argue with that

[PaulF]

The new ichip makes it harder to compare specs / prices now. But probably still holds true that you are paying a lot for macos.
Incidentally I see the man running the ichip process has detected back to intel)

[Walshy nMe®]

Been given a free mid 2011 iMac, amazing condition, 2.5ghz i5 with 16gb ram.

I installed Monterey via OpenCore Patcher and I have to say, it runs it flawlessley.

I'm very impressed.

[PaulF]

I suspect old Mac's are in better condition because they are a premium product and better looked after. Definitely some of it is because they are good bits of kit. But you get my gist.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Are Apples all a bit flakey?

I've got a work Macbook Pro, a home Macbook Pro, a home Mini Mac and all three suffer from the Bluetooth dropping (usually the mouse), dropping off Wifi, Unable to reconnect to stuff like MS (Without a reboot) and other general problems.

It can't be the one machine as it affects all three regularly.

Two of them keep losing the HDMI connections as well.

Quite annoying

[CraigDS]

Had an issue with Bluetooth but turned out to be my keyboard dying. Has been fine since I got a new one.

Had an issue with WiFi but turned out to be where the Mac was placed. Was fine when I moved it, was even better when set up Eero in the house.

So no, been fine.

[John C]

Haven't had anything repaired by this company. However bought loads of stuff from them and sold stuff to them. Worth an ask, they always come across as highly professional.
https://www.thebookyard.com

Meant to say thanks again for this info. They weren't able to repair it due to it being beyond repair, but they were really good in how they handled it and dealt with my daughter. I'd recommend them.

[red annie]

I am sorry they couldn't help. We have dealt with them for several years and they do come across as very decent.

[PaulF]

Are Apples all a bit flakey?

I've got a work Macbook Pro, a home Macbook Pro, a home Mini Mac and all three suffer from the Bluetooth dropping (usually the mouse), dropping off Wifi, Unable to reconnect to stuff like MS (Without a reboot) and other general problems.

It can't be the one machine as it affects all three regularly.

Two of them keep losing the HDMI connections as well.

Quite annoying

I was using an 'old' macbook pro for about a month as an rdp client. HDMI cable and wifi flawless.
(possibly the wifi dropped out, but certainly not the hdmi to the monitor (dongle for hdmi).  If the wifi dropped out it would only have been briefly and once. It was trivial for me to swtich back to my old windows machine, so if there had of been issued I'd have done it.

@Tepid - did your mac to ethernet dongle work ok?

[Claire.]

Are Apples all a bit flakey?

I've got a work Macbook Pro, a home Macbook Pro, a home Mini Mac and all three suffer from the Bluetooth dropping (usually the mouse), dropping off Wifi, Unable to reconnect to stuff like MS (Without a reboot) and other general problems.

It can't be the one machine as it affects all three regularly.

Two of them keep losing the HDMI connections as well.

Quite annoying

I don't see the issues you describe either, my iMac is on ethernet and the windows machine I use Remote Desktop with is on wifi and it's very stable, not noticed my other Mac dropping wifi and bluetooth... outside of low battery situations, no, but I'm using all apple things with it.

[BlackandWhitePaul]

I'm still running on macOS Big Sur, will I notice much / any difference if I upgrade?  Is it really worth doing it?

[Claire.]

there are some cool things: https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/monterey/

whether or not you'll notice or use them depends on what you do I guess.

[Riquende]

Are Apples all a bit flakey?

I've got a work Macbook Pro, a home Macbook Pro, a home Mini Mac and all three suffer from the Bluetooth dropping (usually the mouse), dropping off Wifi, Unable to reconnect to stuff like MS (Without a reboot) and other general problems.

I had a cheap Clevo laptop at work that had a major wifi problem, whether the company Windows image or a vanilla install. It was a unique machine in the organisation and all the obvious steps didn't resolve the issue, so we just gave the user something else.  In the end, after a play, I found out that it was the hotkey drivers to blame of all things. The incorrect driver was causing airplane mode to toggle on and off imperceptably briefly, interrupting any attempt to find or connect to networks.

It's unlikely to be something similar on a Mac as it's all their own hardware and drivers, but sometimes solutions are found in odd places!

[BlackandWhitePaul]

there are some cool things: https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/monterey/

whether or not you'll notice or use them depends on what you do I guess.

OK thank you, I will click the link and look later when I am home.

[Crimson]

I'm still running on macOS Big Sur, will I notice much / any difference if I upgrade?  Is it really worth doing it?

Depends. Other software tends to take a while to run as expected on new OS's. Sometimes it takes months to adjust. 

Personally, I tend to stay a version behind the current one. I just updated to Big Sur and will not update again until Monterey is replaced

[RainbowFlick]

caved in and ordered a new 14" M1 MBP with my student of life discount. a month or so for delivery time. hoping my current MBP (2015 model with the ports bought in 2017) holds out as it seems the battery is bulging and it's a bit sluggish now.

did consider taking a flight to Jersey for more savings but seems they're clamping down on that now

[24/7]

Treated myself to an upgrade.

Found an early 2015 13" Retina screen MBP, the one that still has a decent amount of ports, the decent design/mechanism keyboard, the ultra slim version and with a rare 500GB SSD.

Incredible.

The main differences I've noticed have been how much lighter this one is (the other feels like a brick now!), the quality of the resolution (retina is so worth it) and the fact I can now connect to a monitor again (the mother board on my previous MBP had corroded badly after getting screen cleaner inside it, so the audio and monitor ports were compromised)

I swear that this model was the last decent one they released - seems they've learned some lessons though - the new M1s look boss - I just couldn't stretch that far pricewise.

This one cost me 600e.......there was a fault with the screen so I kicked off, under the reseller's own warranty, and was given a brand spanking new screen

If you're looking for a budget version upgrade from anything up to and including 2014, can't afford an M1 and agree with me that anything between 2016 and 2021 is gash, then this early 2015 model is the mutt's nuts.

[TepidT2O]

Great to see you around Jim… you were missed

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I don't see the issues you describe either, my iMac is on ethernet and the windows machine I use Remote Desktop with is on wifi and it's very stable, not noticed my other Mac dropping wifi and bluetooth... outside of low battery situations, no, but I'm using all apple things with it.

It's a logitech mouse (With 3 way switcher) and happens on the MiniMac, Work MB Pro and my MB Pro

So clearly an issue with Apple OS

As you said, if you can get people to use just Apple stuff then you're probably good, but I use stuff with Apples, Windows and Linux (Among other systems)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I had a cheap Clevo laptop at work that had a major wifi problem, whether the company Windows image or a vanilla install. It was a unique machine in the organisation and all the obvious steps didn't resolve the issue, so we just gave the user something else.  In the end, after a play, I found out that it was the hotkey drivers to blame of all things. The incorrect driver was causing airplane mode to toggle on and off imperceptably briefly, interrupting any attempt to find or connect to networks.

It's unlikely to be something similar on a Mac as it's all their own hardware and drivers, but sometimes solutions are found in odd places!

The Wifi dropping happens mostly on the Mini Mac, but also my MB Pro, but I went out and bought a new 8 Port Gigabit Ethernet Network Switch so they all have Ethernet connections now.

None of the Windows machines have wifi issues (The old Centos box does - but it's an old Centos box ) so they are on Wifi except my Main PC which has Ethernet.

[CraigDS]

I use a Logitech mouse (revolution MX) on my Mac Mini (M1) without any issues. Never had it drop once.

[24/7]

I've used four examples of the same type of Logitech wireless mouse (four different ones) on seven different Apple devices since 1998 and never once had an issue with drop-off.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

I feel like there’s a blue posting in a red thread here. 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I use a Logitech mouse (revolution MX) on my Mac Mini (M1) without any issues. Never had it drop once.

Mine is a three-way switcher like my keyboard (Logitech M720)

So it's not permanently connected as an active connection.

Keyboard has a three-way switcher (Logitech K780)  too, but that hasn't had a problem.. yet..

Looks like quite a few people have the problem. You can easily fix it - disconnect the mouse with bluetooth and then reconnect - but is a bit in the pain in the arse.

Seems to have stopped happening the last few days. Hopefully either Logitech or Apple have got off their backsides and put a sneaky fix in.

[langhamstreet]

these technology threads are really great.

talking about old tech earlier in the thread, i've just upgraded an old 2009 white unibody macbook to OS Monterey using the free github Open Core Legacy Patcher.

previously it was stuck on high sierra OS, with apple telling me it was obsolete!, and yet it's now running great with their latest OS.

my daughter can't believe her 12 year old macbook looks exactly the same as her brand new one

Apple should be ashamed that enthusiastic volunteers are able to prove that filling landfill with so-called obsolescence is nonsense

google mr mackintosh vids re- OCLP to see which old macbooks can be rescued