Author Topic: Chess World Championship  (Read 56997 times)

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #320 on: March 25, 2019, 12:34:19 am »
Really enjoying my chess at the mo.

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #321 on: May 18, 2019, 12:25:38 am »
Really enjoying my chess at the mo.

You're obsessed mate.  Why do it to yourself?



Watched a podcast some weeks back with a couple of chess dudes arguing that you have to have a plan in bullet/blitz chess, and they are right. Previously I just played off the cuff... knowing some openings 3 moves deep. For instance... the Sicilian... just do d6 second move and I'll work the rest out later. But am currently enjoying 1. Nf3. To some mirth it has to be said... but 1. Nf3 asks for d5 so I reply c4. Take? Move forward with it? Either I'm getting good with. Taking I'm happier with.

The idea is to move the white bishop back to b1 and focus on the h7 pawn... queen ahead, h pawn thrown up. A bullet chess trap occasionally... but can lead to some good games.

Offline Malaysian Kopite

  • Feels shivers when he looks a Trquarista's...
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,040
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #322 on: May 19, 2019, 10:26:53 am »
Noticed my Messenger had a Chess App and got right back into it. Already starting to see moves in my sleep though, which is why I quit the last time around
Football without fans is nothing.

We've won 18 titles, 5 European Cups, 7 FA Cups, but today must be the greatest victory of all.

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #323 on: May 22, 2019, 08:58:05 pm »
Noticed my Messenger had a Chess App and got right back into it. Already starting to see moves in my sleep though, which is why I quit the last time around

Not nearly as bad as playing Goldeneye and swerving round readying to shoot whenever a security camera appears in the corner of your eye tho ;D


Reminds me of a good quote I saw from Bill Hartson ' "It's not that chess drives sane people mad, I think it keeps mad people sane.'

Offline Crimson_Tank

  • Rhyming Slang. RAWK Virgil. Knows a proper spit-roast when he sees one.....something to do with the law of the bi.....Is truly a giant amongst the short staff.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,765
  • "Time is an illusion, Lunchtime, doubly so." F.P.
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #324 on: May 27, 2019, 01:35:26 pm »
You're obsessed mate.  Why do it to yourself?



Watched a podcast some weeks back with a couple of chess dudes arguing that you have to have a plan in bullet/blitz chess, and they are right. Previously I just played off the cuff... knowing some openings 3 moves deep. For instance... the Sicilian... just do d6 second move and I'll work the rest out later. But am currently enjoying 1. Nf3. To some mirth it has to be said... but 1. Nf3 asks for d5 so I reply c4. Take? Move forward with it? Either I'm getting good with. Taking I'm happier with.

The idea is to move the white bishop back to b1 and focus on the h7 pawn... queen ahead, h pawn thrown up. A bullet chess trap occasionally... but can lead to some good games.

You have to, I often plat The Bird as it throws off my bullet/Blitz opponent and that gives me a slight edge even if they are much better than I am.
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
A dead animal is a dead animal. And a piece of meat is a piece of meat.

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #325 on: May 27, 2019, 08:48:42 pm »
You have to, I often plat The Bird as it throws off my bullet/Blitz opponent and that gives me a slight edge even if they are much better than I am.

Ah good tip... I've never heard of the Bird.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 08:51:52 pm by Filler. »

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #326 on: June 20, 2019, 11:53:47 pm »
Ah good tip... I've never heard of the Bird.

(tumbleweed)



So after a long 48 hours (happy 40th birthday to my wife today) I sit down with a Banter Blitz for the first time in months.. Jan's new password to the premium member discount... 'Janistan' ;D

But then a question is sent in asking why he doesn't play the Bongcloud opening. Bongcloud? What the hell is that!?
And it is an actual opening played by some of the top players in rapid play. This is an opening I need to learn.

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #327 on: June 20, 2019, 11:58:07 pm »
Ahhhh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAxTTm98OEQ


Bongcloud... so it's a 2nd or 3rd move by the white King. Yes ... have played against this occasionally. Usually win. I tend to automatically play a waiting game coz it's a dickhead move. Yeah, I'm never playing that.

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #328 on: June 21, 2019, 12:19:47 am »
And the definition of it on Urban Disctionary:


Bongcloud
The Bongcloud Opening is an aggressive and sound chess opening, championed by many including Fischer, Tal, Capablanca and Kasparov, that starts with e4, e5 and Ke2!!

This opening develops the King to a good spot and allows White to control the center with his king preventing Black from using the weak d3 and f3 squares to attack White's king. White also gains a tempo, which may lead to Zugzwang later, as after Qe1!, forming a King and Queen battery, an Xray attack on Black's King is threatened and Black has to waste a move to respond. Other benefits of the opening include the negation of Back-rank mates as the King is no longer on the back rank and that Black will most likely overextend his pieces in an attempt to launch an assault on the safe White King.

Lack of documentation on the opening forces Black to get out of the book immediately and blunder with moves like Nf6??.

;D

Offline Perham

  • Effes v2.0 - RAWK's Official Dog Snogger!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,776
  • All is well
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #329 on: June 24, 2019, 09:29:55 am »
That Firmino's class ;)
if I came home to allison in bed with my wife I'd ask him to phone Virgil to see if he wanted to pop round too.

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #330 on: June 24, 2019, 09:32:20 am »
That Firmino's class ;)

 ;D ;)

Bobby is class mate  :P

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #331 on: June 24, 2019, 09:34:00 am »
(This can be moved with the other chess posts.)

In the endgame, you can look further ahead as there are far fewer pieces on the board, and the number of possible moves is drastically reduced.

But this was referring to a game in the opening stages (Najdorf variation of the Sicilian), I don't know the context, but possibly Kasparov was thinking about an isolated pawn, or something similar that many moves ahead (52 seems a little precise) would mean the game would be won/lost, based on how many other games had played out with this opening?

Yep, he might have known a few games in the variation, but again that's just theory. As you said, it's based on other games played before that he knows :)

Opponent can easily deviate from what he knows in the middle game.

I recently saw an analysis from a game by Mamedyarov who played 30 moves into the game perfectly just by theory (even gaining advantage) and then blundered 2 moves after the opponent deviated from a known game.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 09:36:53 am by PoetryInMotion »

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #332 on: June 24, 2019, 11:33:49 pm »
Played a few games today... shocking.

So tell me about you and your chess... where did you start, how when etc..How do or did you get good? Are you good? What do you play? Who are the best? Does chess belong to telly? How do you see blitz/bullet against classical? Is blitz chess akin to making punk music v Mozart?

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #333 on: June 25, 2019, 07:21:16 pm »
Played a few games today... shocking.

So tell me about you and your chess... where did you start, how when etc..How do or did you get good? Are you good? What do you play? Who are the best? Does chess belong to telly? How do you see blitz/bullet against classical? Is blitz chess akin to making punk music v Mozart?

I started when I was young, around 9 or 10 years old. Just the basics then. But, after that I got into a lot of local tournaments where I learnt end game tactics and some basic tricks that help you beat beginners, nothing special. I was intuitive, but my theory was lacking. For a few years of that phase, till I got to around 14 or 15, I swiftly climbed up the ladder and got to become a consistent top board competitor (Swiss system) in multiple local tournaments consistently. But it was frustrating for me, I could always go to the top 3 boards only to get defeated there, because I was only into application and my theory was still bad (except end game).

I then had a coach for around a couple of years and got into a local chess academy, where I got my theory education. I was around 16-17 at that time and I started winning a lot of my local tournaments, I started beating players who were favourites for years in those local tournaments in top boards, whom I was losing to before. It felt good, because during those times people were genuinely scared looking at my name in the pairing board against theirs as their next round opponent.

My chess academy then nominated me for a national level tournament where I was rated 16xx but I did not do well in my first tournament of that magnitude. Fellow 16xx rated players were stronger than I expected. Small oversights were punished mercilessly. For someone who used to score 6.5 to 7.5 points out of 8 in local tournaments, this was a reality check - I managed to score 4.5 points in 11 rounds. Even the 3 wins that I had where when I dropped down to lower boards. But it was an experience in all. I managed to go for a few more national tournaments, but I couldn't make that step up to belong at that level. My rating was slightly higher over the next few years and stable, but I couldn't improve much. After I finished college, I immediately got a big job & then my chess was reduced to a hobby for a number of years. So it all stayed as it is until the past 3-4 years where I've been able to rekindle my passion by learning online with machine analysis and by going through games played by top players.

As for my favourites, I really love Fischer's games - he was part eccentric like Tal in his approach, but where I'd give credit to him and take credit away from Tal (who was entertaining in his own right) is that he knew where to stop. When Tal let loose, he had no control over himself, which affected his win percentage. The other side of Fischer is that as surprising as he can be, he can also be in control. He was a complete player as much as the games of him that I've seen. I like him and Kasparov the most, but I also like other all-time greats like Capablanca and Karpov. Of recent World Champions, Carlsen is dominating it so much that he could get into the all-time Top 3 maybe, and I also like Anand who broke Kasparov's domination. Among current players, I watch a lot of games of Carlsen, Anand, Aronian, Ding, Karjakin and Vachier-Lagrave.

Chess of course belongs to the Tele imo, at least top level chess belongs there - I don't know why there's not a lot of coverage in Tele as much as we get Online where there's commentary & live insights and analysis. Of course, the game needs patience, but there are many enthusiasts who would love coverage I think. 

Classical vs Blitz - There's only one for me - Classical. I always drag games down and take apart opponents of my level in end game, so I love classical chess where you wait out to see advantages and play tactical games. Even if you go down a piece or make a mistake, you can always look for other positional advantages. But in Blitz, it becomes a matter of who blunders the least, which takes away from tactics imo. And also, I'm not very good at Blitz. I'm learning to be quick, but I don't like the host of mistakes that both players do, when you look back at the game after you've played.

Blitz Chess is not Mozart, I'm pretty sure about that  ;D 

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #334 on: June 25, 2019, 11:02:14 pm »
Blitz Chess is not Mozart, I'm pretty sure about that  ;D 

Definitely not.. ;D


Great stuff! Look forward to a a few more from others if they can be arsed. Find it interesting. Am sure a common thread with good players is starting young. I started after I left school. Recently bought Fischer Teaches Chess for myself but it's more suited to teaching my 9 year old, tho am sure I'll learn something too. Only started it recently. Have thought about teaching chess at my kids local primary school and using it as my base.

Glad you think chess should be on telly. I personally think it's made for it, tho maybe just for one game... i find it hard to keep up when there's a dozen games going on as often I'm peeking in every so often and not able to watch continuous coverage. Four hours +.. one game... two regular commentators, guests each day... analysis. Very entertaining too if the right people are involved and chess has its characters (and dullards obv). But the American show is quite good.. St Louis? My interest has dipped in and out over the years but catching a Jan Gustafsson/Svidler show some years back got me into it again.

I only play blitz/bullet chess... which is a dreadful way to learn how to get better at the game I know. Don't have time for long games and people cheat online so don't bother with it. I enjoy the adrenaline rush too sometimes... and the online psychology. Would help if people learned better manners tho and not get so wound up! I am working on my own version of 1. Nf3 but won't go into it here in case it's stolen. Arf. I go thru some of my games with a simple online analysis thingy for my own amusement really, but I think it helps.

At school chess seemed a bit nerdy and dull, but have become fascinated by it. Am into music, maths and art so when I left school I found it eventually. Had all the components. I quickly became the strongest out of my group of friends but I had started going thru games in the newspapers and reading about it. That's how I learned it. No internet then. Very lucky to have it now!

There are huge gaps in my knowledge and they will never be filled. Watching Magnus Carlsen chat thru his banterblitz games while swigging huge bottles of water reminds me of this... stuff about dark squares/light squares, and knowing when a dark bishop can be exchanged off the board etc is beyond me. I have my own understanding of the game to do with pattern recognition as much as anything. I know when I'm up, know when I'm down. And if I'm down... sacrifice something. It's blitz after all.


Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #335 on: June 26, 2019, 10:56:59 am »
Definitely not.. ;D


Great stuff! Look forward to a a few more from others if they can be arsed. Find it interesting. Am sure a common thread with good players is starting young. I started after I left school. Recently bought Fischer Teaches Chess for myself but it's more suited to teaching my 9 year old, tho am sure I'll learn something too. Only started it recently. Have thought about teaching chess at my kids local primary school and using it as my base.

That sounds cool. I've only taught chess tactics and theory to my brother and some friends, I believe it's interesting to discuss the game and tactics, so I hope teaching proves to be a really good experience for you.

Quote
Glad you think chess should be on telly. I personally think it's made for it, tho maybe just for one game... i find it hard to keep up when there's a dozen games going on as often I'm peeking in every so often and not able to watch continuous coverage. Four hours +.. one game... two regular commentators, guests each day... analysis. Very entertaining too if the right people are involved and chess has its characters (and dullards obv). But the American show is quite good.. St Louis? My interest has dipped in and out over the years but catching a Jan Gustafsson/Svidler show some years back got me into it again.

I agree mate. It should be one game at a time, they should pick the one that could get the most views and get on with it, just like they do for other sports. St. Louis, I follow that channel on youtube and get to see a few games, commentary could be better, but it's a model that can be followed.

My curve is similar to you, maybe I've always been interested, but my involvement has been up and down. Now, I follow a few channels in youtube for analysis that keeps me always in. I check at least two videos a day, do some Puzzle Rush and solve some tactics on a daily basis. I can't play full-fledged games though, don't have the time for it and as you know, I don't prefer blitz, so solving tactics keeps me involved, while I play a few games with my computer engine in my free-time (limiting its rating) and see how far up the rating can I be competent. I hit a rating level of the engine a month ago and I've been competing well with that level (winning about 60% of games and drawing/losing the rest), but I'm not quite there to go next level yet - I tried and lost 3 games in a row.

Quote
I only play blitz/bullet chess... which is a dreadful way to learn how to get better at the game I know. Don't have time for long games and people cheat online so don't bother with it. I enjoy the adrenaline rush too sometimes... and the online psychology. Would help if people learned better manners tho and not get so wound up! I am working on my own version of 1. Nf3 but won't go into it here in case it's stolen. Arf. I go thru some of my games with a simple online analysis thingy for my own amusement really, but I think it helps.

Agree, Blitz has its own audience. In terms of top level players, someone like Nakamura is not among the top 10 players in classical maybe, but he ranks insanely high in Blitz (probably next to Carlsen), so it needs a different set of skills you could say. I'm not very good at it, in Blitz people go for Hit and Miss moves more, but I'm not that kind of a risk taker, though I'm taking more risks against the engine than against humans just for learning recently. People who play Sharp Lines like Blitz more. I guess you're good at it.

Yeah, Nf3 is more common than I used to think during my early theory learning days. I certainly hadn't encountered as much of it during my tournament playing days. It's better known online I guess. Hope your version comes out good.

Quote
At school chess seemed a bit nerdy and dull, but have become fascinated by it. Am into music, maths and art so when I left school I found it eventually. Had all the components. I quickly became the strongest out of my group of friends but I had started going thru games in the newspapers and reading about it. That's how I learned it. No internet then. Very lucky to have it now!

There are huge gaps in my knowledge and they will never be filled. Watching Magnus Carlsen chat thru his banterblitz games while swigging huge bottles of water reminds me of this... stuff about dark squares/light squares, and knowing when a dark bishop can be exchanged off the board etc is beyond me. I have my own understanding of the game to do with pattern recognition as much as anything. I know when I'm up, know when I'm down. And if I'm down... sacrifice something. It's blitz after all.

It's certainly not dull mate. Once you know you're somewhat okay at it, there are so many intricacies and details in the game that can keep people hooked. It's just that it's not that popular because you don't just watch a game and understand how it works like you do for other sports. For playing it, you need patience and you need stamina (not physical but mental obviously). For playing classical games, you've to be prepared to be there for 5 hours giving your brain constant need to think and solve problems/come up with ideas for the entire duration. So, for a casual viewer, they need more information about its intricacies to pull them in, they're not going to get in by just viewing it or knowing the basics of the game.

As for gaps in knowledge, I think even most of the Top 100 rated players will say the same mate. Everyone's working with machines and trying to constantly up their games and tactics. People used to do it without machines, but again competition is relative. Now, it is increasing at a scary rate. For players who're learning and/or below FM/IM level, we would be strong in a few areas, but there's just plenty of stuff to know in chess that looking at the vast topics can scare some of us, but the interest can get us through. For example, I always play 1. d4. That's my strong area when playing with white and I know a few variations of it. But if I'm playing an opponent who knows better to respond to those lines, and I know it beforehand about that player, I still can't switch to 1. e4 or anything else with as much confidence, the main reason is it might take years to master many variations a single opening. The better players are more prepared for adversities, that's their strength. It's also hard for non-professionals to keep learning as their day jobs will be a hindrance.

As for exchanging pieces, if I'm a piece up I always simplify so I exchange them off, if I'm a couple of pawns up with a decent position, I still exchange them off. If I'm a piece down, I never exchange unless there's a positional advantage or a mating threat I could go into. If the pieces are equal, it's your call on which of the opponents pieces stop you from executing your plans. If you find there are such pieces like the black bishop you mentioned - if you have a lot of your pawns on black or if that black bishop is doubling with another opponent piece, you'd like to exchange them even with equal pieces. My few cents if any of that made sense  :)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 10:59:07 am by PoetryInMotion »

Offline stoa

  • way. Daydream. Quite partial to a good plonking.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,421
  • Five+One Times, Baby...
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #336 on: June 26, 2019, 11:17:48 am »
I think I've posted my story already on an earlier page, but I'll give a quick re-cap. Started playing when I was maybe 6 or 7 years old. My dad was a huge fan of chess and played in his company team, because in the 80s there was actually a company chess-league in the area where I live (it was stopped in the late 80s or maybe early 90s). So, I played with my dad most of the time when I was a kid and also used a chess computer to play a bit. Lost most of the time, but I had fun. When I was in my early teens I joined the chess club in our town with some friends. We had quite some fun playing in the state championships. We weren't the best of the bunch, but we weren't the worst either. We also had a club championship and I think I did win that once, but I'm not really sure about that. I think my highest elo rating was in the mid 1500s, so a long way from the top. When I got closer to 18 I switched from youth chess to our club's adult team and played for them in the state league for a while. But when I went to study in Vienna (which is about 650 kilometres from where I grew up), I stopped playing. That was about 20 years ago and I've since returned to my hometown. Haven't really started playing chess again though. I do ocassionally play in the state championship for my club, but I lose most of the time. It's especially embarrassing when I'm losing against some 15 year old kid... ;)

I'm still kind of happy with the way I'm playing, as most of the time, I make the other guys work for their win and I'm not completely shite. It's just that without playing regularily I'm prone to making one huge blunder in every game that I might be able to avoid if I was playing maybe once a week or so in a serious manner. One issue I have though is that I'm playing on instinct and could never be arsed with all the theory stuff. I mean, I learned the basics in terms of openings and endgames when I was a teen, but I wouldn't want to go any deeper. I also don't really enjoy analysing my own games afterwards, so I would probably never have become more than a half-decent player... ;)

In terms of whether chess is good for TV broadcasts I'm not sure. I do enjoy the commentary Gustafson and Svidler do on Chess24, but a lot of that is down to their dynamic and the fact that they're not strictly talking about chess. I have watched some of the coverage Jan did with Leko (don't know what tournament that was) and it was much less entertaining. I'm not sure people too many people would want to watch that. You'd get a good viewership in terms of chess-enthusiasts, but I'm not sure it's suited for a wider audience. With the Gustafson/Svidler combo someone might stick with it, when they start talking about what they watch on TV or stuff like that, but not really for the chess. It's also that there's a limited amount of analysis they can do for certain games. And if they're doing multiple stuff especially when it's blitz-games it's just a clusterfuck and really hard to follow...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 11:22:00 am by stoa »

Offline Qston

  • Loves a bit of monkey tennis and especially loves a bit of sausage relief......singularly though #sausage
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,245
  • Believer
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #337 on: June 26, 2019, 12:58:58 pm »
I certainly remember the days when chess clubs in school were very much a thing. They were where I grew up anyway. My junior school had a chess club which I joined. My grandfather in that there london taught me to play when I stayed with him on my summer holidays in the early 80's. End up playing in the local chess congress for my school and got my photo in the paper. My mum still has the picture. I was as proud as punch winning that. I stopped playing when I went to senior school but have much more recently started to discover the online world of chess and am enjoying the odd game or two. Very rusty and thinking back when I was probably 9 or 10 I had memorised so many opening moves which have now completely wiped due to my age probably. I am currently teaching my daughter to play and have plans to take the set on holiday to teach my wife. It has done wonders for my teenage daughter on her concentration. She is a typical teenage girl with her mobile phone, daft friggin eyebrows, instagram and all that shite. She also has the attention span of a goldfish as a result. Well she is properly addicted to a game of chess which I never thought she would be. It's lovely to see.

I did enjoy myself a few years ago. I very genuinely hadn`t played in about 30 years. My wife had invited a close friend of hers from her school days around to ours for dinner. He husband was an arrogant tool who banged on as if he was the master of all subjects. Anyway, he says he is really good at chess. My wife then mentions that I used to play a bit when I was a kid so this fella challenged me to a game. I initially refused and said don`t be daft, I haven`t played for 30 years. Anyway, my wife convinced me this was a good idea and an opportunity to use an expensive set she had bought for me a few years ago for Christmas that hadn`t seen the light of day........I could remember one opening set move which everyone who played chess as a kid could remember, fools mate. Yup, I did him fools mate. I hadn`t felt that smug in many many years. It certainly put him back in his box. Who would have thought that chess is the mans way of sorting shit out !

"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

Offline stoa

  • way. Daydream. Quite partial to a good plonking.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,421
  • Five+One Times, Baby...
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #338 on: June 26, 2019, 01:22:23 pm »
I could remember one opening set move which everyone who played chess as a kid could remember, fools mate. Yup, I did him fools mate. I hadn`t felt that smug in many many years. It certainly put him back in his box. Who would have thought that chess is the mans way of sorting shit out !

I hate fools mate, because of my childhood memories. Like I said I played in a club with some friends and in one of the first tournaments we played, probably three of four in our team fell for it, because we had never encountered it before. We were fuming...

Offline Qston

  • Loves a bit of monkey tennis and especially loves a bit of sausage relief......singularly though #sausage
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,245
  • Believer
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #339 on: June 26, 2019, 01:29:51 pm »
I hate fools mate, because of my childhood memories. Like I said I played in a club with some friends and in one of the first tournaments we played, probably three of four in our team fell for it, because we had never encountered it before. We were fuming...

It only has to happen to you the once for you to memorise the shit out of it. It happened to me when I first started playing - my Grandad showed me it and I quickly learned to avoid falling for it. Same as in our school, various kids fell for it but only the once.
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

Offline stewil007

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,240
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #340 on: June 26, 2019, 02:03:01 pm »
I hate fools mate, because of my childhood memories. Like I said I played in a club with some friends and in one of the first tournaments we played, probably three of four in our team fell for it, because we had never encountered it before. We were fuming...


I started playing chess at junior school, so aged 8 or so and at our local area school level, I thought I was pretty good, won 2, lost 1 won 1 .......that sort of thing.  Always close games but more often than not, I came out on top

We had some kids come over from Germany (I think) and they annihilated us and I was done by fools mate, one of my mates who was really good (better than me) took one the games quite deep but in the end was beaten.  It really opened our eyes to the level of concentration and seeing the whole board and not looking at your side of the board and your pieces.  In the end they beat us 16-0 but I've never been done by fools mate again.


Offline stoa

  • way. Daydream. Quite partial to a good plonking.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,421
  • Five+One Times, Baby...
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #341 on: June 26, 2019, 02:07:01 pm »
I hate to admit it, but I kind of forgot how to deal properly with it so in one of my recent games I got into trouble when someone tried some variation of it against me. I wasn't in danger of losing, but got stuck with a position I felt really uncomfortable with...

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #342 on: June 26, 2019, 02:15:52 pm »
Nice reading up on your chess history guys..

As for the fool's mate, I've never gone prey to one, and I discovered it personally in my school days without knowing that whatever I did create on board by myself was fool's mate. I couldn't get anyone to fall prey to it in tournaments through.

However, I've fallen prey to scholar's mate myself in one of the u-10 tournaments I played in, and after that one game, I quickly learnt how to defend that and after a couple of tournaments, fellow kids stopped trying that on me permanently as I always defended it, and it messed up their positions and I developed all my pieces while they were left using their queen a bit too much.

I never tried scholar's mate on anybody in tournaments for exactly those reasons. Once somebody defends it, you're left behind on overall play. So, if I'm playing a weaker opponent, I still play my normal game and drag it out. The strength will show eventually is my idea.

Offline stewil007

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,240
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #343 on: June 26, 2019, 02:29:08 pm »
I guess one of the reasons I never kept the game up was that I could never look 3 or 4 moves ahead, I just didn't have that strategic mind, which meant as I got older and the games got harder, I was getting beat all the time and no-one likes losing all the time - I don't know how the Ev deal with it.....I couldn't and quit playing.

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #344 on: June 26, 2019, 02:35:32 pm »
I still remember one particular opponent all these years. After I became a solid top board player in my city's tournaments, there was this one guy who was good, but not that good kind of a player. I had observed him in previous tournaments. During that phase, the tournaments in my place were still based on Swiss-system, but not classical chess. The rules were like 1 hour of normal time (clock optional - if any one of the two opponents wants, they can use it) and then 5 minutes each with clock mandatory if game isn't over by that 1 hour. This particular player always seemed to drag the one hour out when playing with strong opponents, he only played 3 or 4 moves in the whole hour and the surprise thing is when it went to the clock phase of 5 minutes each, he used to defeat them by not great chess but actually causing pressure and frustration to strong opponents. He actually converts a 1 hour game into a blitz and then wins the blitz game by making the least errors there.

We met on 2nd board, it was probably the 4th round or something and we were both 3/3 then. He tried the same to me. I admit, that one hour was entirely frustrating because I had legit ideas and I was constantly reworking things in my mind even though nothing was played on board except 2-3 moves. But I didn't succumb to it like some previous title winners did, the key was not to constantly ask him to move like a few other did. We could do nothing to solve that until the clock had to come, so why bother. I was frustrated, but also calm because I kind of expected him to do it and it showed that he didn't like to play me. He only did it to top board players. I waited out and out and then the hour went and the clock came. Most of the other games around were done. Everyone surrounded our board as is often the case with late games in and around the top boards.

But then, he was a bit upset that I didn't get upset by all the dragging out. My calmness was so unusual to him, I think he legit wanted me to be scared when the clock came. So, when it actually came, the pressure moved to him instead of the usual and he made a minor mistake 4 moves into those additional time. I played a very simple game. Mistakes followed from him and he collapsed. That was the first time he was beaten after the clock arrived in all tournaments combined, because he was a very quick player. That did him though. He was scared to convert these games into blitz in the tournaments that followed even against other good players.

It makes me realize that a part of chess, for all the skill and tactics involved, will always remain psychological.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 02:46:59 pm by PoetryInMotion »

Offline stoa

  • way. Daydream. Quite partial to a good plonking.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,421
  • Five+One Times, Baby...
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #345 on: June 26, 2019, 09:36:43 pm »
I have a nemesis as well. He's about the same age as me and also about the same level as even though he plays a lot more. He has been around for years, so we've played a couple of times when our clubs met in the league. I don't think I have a single win against him, but it's not because he's so much better it's rather that he plays so fast. The games in the league are 90 minute each and 5 seconds per move and I think another 30 minutes after 40 moves. So plenty of time. When I play against other opponents I have no issue taking my time if I have to or making a quick move when the other guy thinks for a long time and I can do my own calculations. Not with that other fix though. He just blitzes out moves and it's kind of contagious. Problem is that the other guy plays solid chess even though he's blitzing moves. I'm bound to mess it up at one point and the other guy is good enough to take advantage. One time I managed to actually play slowly against him and I felt that he hated it. Only got a draw tough I think...

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #346 on: June 27, 2019, 06:20:55 am »
Great reading these... too much to pull out and quote directly so will waffle on!

School: Dull was probably the wrong word to use, but chess at school was played by all the clever kids so I didn't fit in. I think I maybe admired the game from afar - used to enjoy those early TV programs and would watch the odd documentary etc but I never really played till I left school and got in with a crowd of arty stoners.
Long way to go before I think seriously about teaching chess at primary school... but it would be a beginners thing. That Fischer Teaches Chess is an excellent book for kids tho. Highly recommended.

TV; Have mentioned it before, but went to see Kasparov v Kramnik in London twice, including the final winning game and it was one of the best sporting events Ive been to. Screens all round the bar, and everyone had an earpiece to listen to the commentary in the auditorium (600 people?) and surrounding areas... that was the highlight. Nigel Short, Raymond Keane, Daniel King and another and it was like listening to TMS (cricket commentary). Very knowledgeable, and very funny at times - lots of off-game chat etc. Winning combination. They are blessed in Norway to have Carlsen's world title matches beamed live (although they may revise that after the last world title!)

Gaps in knowledge: I don't have a foundation built into my game having never been taught. It's like anything in life I guess.

Fools/scholars mate: Well played Qston! What a superb win ;D Fools mate is very different to Scholars for me as Scholars at least has a point to it for white. Fools mate involves opening with 1. f3 which is undoubtedly the worst opening there is. I tell my kids to never play it... and when you're older and a good player... never play it. I very rarely see it being played against me, if ever. If I have, then concentration levels would get peaked as I'm going for the throat. They peak at facing 1. b3 or 1. g3 or a4, h4 etc too (tho b or g at least is solid). I enjoy facing Bc4 Qf3 type games... rarely lose... my favourite tho is 1. e4 c5 2. Qh5!? Very rarely do I play someone who knows that line beyond move 10... and if you don't know it... good luck!

Swiss system: Never heard of this. That is a bizarre way to play chess. I think if you don't play 20 moves in an hour your opponent should be allowed to slap you in the face with a wet fish every minute. Glad you got that win PoetryInMotion! Very odd to be in a tournament where you're actually asking someone to hurry up... that takes me back to my stoner days. Clocks are essential. I think I'd take a sketchbook out and draw my opponent... or bring a book. Or big broadsheet newspaper and a footstool. Or just get up and stare out the window.

Blitz: Used to play 10 min games years ago, now play 2min + 1sec games. Being good at bullet chess is akin to hearing someone say they're good at football, but finding out they meant table football, but I enjoy it nonetheless. I can have a game while waiting for the kettle to boil, then get back to things. It's too fast to get anything out of any post match analysis but I do it every so often. I try to play classical solid stuff and when I get undone slightly (positionally) in the 8th move etc I try to learn. And when I get an advantage I try to learn how to push on better. Kinda futile but there ya go, and have no idea if anything actually sinks in.  Have had games where 60+ moves have been made which can be intense. Got much more to say about online blitz but later  :wave


Offline stoa

  • way. Daydream. Quite partial to a good plonking.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,421
  • Five+One Times, Baby...
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #347 on: June 27, 2019, 08:34:24 am »
Just to clear it up, the Swiss System has nothing to do with how much time you're allowed to take. It's merely a way of getting the pairings for the various rounds in a tournament when it's not possible that every competitor plays all the others at least once. So, in a tournament with 30 players everyone would have 29 games in normal format (like in the candidates where they all play each other), but most of the time that's not viable and you have less rounds. The Swiss System is a way to make sure that you cannot win the tournament with sheer luck, because you've played just shite players while others had better opponents. It's basically there so that the best players face each other at least and to win it you have to beat the strongest opponents. To achieve that the pairings are determined by the points someone has made so far. So, for example if you have three points after three rounds you'll play someone who has a similar score and not someone who has lost all their games so far. For it to work you'll need a certain amount of rounds though. And for the first round you'll use the Elo rating to get your pairings...

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #348 on: June 27, 2019, 10:15:04 am »
Ah... I get you. But you still have no clocks in tournaments?

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #349 on: June 27, 2019, 11:12:20 am »
I have a nemesis as well. He's about the same age as me and also about the same level as even though he plays a lot more. He has been around for years, so we've played a couple of times when our clubs met in the league. I don't think I have a single win against him, but it's not because he's so much better it's rather that he plays so fast. The games in the league are 90 minute each and 5 seconds per move and I think another 30 minutes after 40 moves. So plenty of time. When I play against other opponents I have no issue taking my time if I have to or making a quick move when the other guy thinks for a long time and I can do my own calculations. Not with that other fix though. He just blitzes out moves and it's kind of contagious. Problem is that the other guy plays solid chess even though he's blitzing moves. I'm bound to mess it up at one point and the other guy is good enough to take advantage. One time I managed to actually play slowly against him and I felt that he hated it. Only got a draw tough I think...

I can relate with this. People playing unnecessarily quick in a classical or a long game do confuse the heck out of you. You have to grow out of that zone and start playing your own game which is not easy, I agree.

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #350 on: June 27, 2019, 11:34:02 am »
Ah... I get you. But you still have no clocks in tournaments?

Ah, as stoa said, the system has more to do with pairings than timings. The clock rule was a stupid thing I agree, but a couple of the academies that ran tournaments in my place used to do it then, and I didn't know why. Obviously, it was way back, it would've changed now I'm guessing. The thing is clocks  weren't mandatory right away, so you had to convince the opponent to use the clock before the mandatory last 10 minutes came. If the opponent didn't want it, you couldn't use it. Nobody really waited out an hour actually, people just played - won or lost, but this guy somehow did it to make opponents anxious, especially when he was paired with top players.

I remember one more incident that proved chess was psychological. It wasn't a game I played, but it was one that involved one of my close friends in the tournament circle. We had played as opponents and he was a strong player, but we were sportive and we used to hang out together discussing the game. Now, at that time we were both regular Top 3 board players, so we were tactically plotting against other top board players. There was this one other guy who scared everyone else. If one of me or my friend didn't win it, he was one of the others who was the favourite to win any tournament we were all in along with just a couple of others. This guy was a little bit stronger than all of us, the other contenders. In one of those tournaments, my friend got paired with him on 1st board, I was in 3rd board having been 0.5 points lesser with an easier opponent.

The surprising thing is my friend was really prepared against this stronger guy and went to middle game were he forced him to make a mistake and my friend went a minor piece up and in a great position against him. It was incredible. Even the games that guy lost to were close games that he lost in the end, which was itself rare, so to be piece up against him was like unbelievable. But then the other guy had a lot of influence in terms of friends as well, since he was always one of those in leaderboard. He just dashed the board in frustration when the arbiter was not looking and unfortunately my friend hadn't made notes for that game. He knew the position though. So, we went and complained and the game got halted, his friends who were around denied that he pushed the board, and all sorts of discussions happened. Then, the arbiter and his team decided on the position (based on both players' inputs) and decided to continue the game after other games ended.

The game continued after a delay and we were all watching. My friend was playing so well and he had a rook, a bishop and a knight with a few pawns while the other guy had a rook and a knight with few pawns as well. But this time after all the commotion, my friend lost his concentration and the other guy won it somehow. It was insane. If my friend had played through the first time, we both knew he'd have went on to win it. A great chance, but these things happen.

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #351 on: June 27, 2019, 09:48:35 pm »
Ah, as stoa said, the system has more to do with pairings than timings. The clock rule was a stupid thing I agree, but a couple of the academies that ran tournaments in my place used to do it then, and I didn't know why. Obviously, it was way back, it would've changed now I'm guessing. The thing is clocks  weren't mandatory right away, so you had to convince the opponent to use the clock before the mandatory last 10 minutes came. If the opponent didn't want it, you couldn't use it. Nobody really waited out an hour actually, people just played - won or lost, but this guy somehow did it to make opponents anxious, especially when he was paired with top players.


Ah OK. So if you opened with d4 and he took say 20 seconds to respond with d5, and you then respond with c4 pretty quickly, it would be OK to tell your opponent to get the fuck on with it if he did nothing for 10 minutes? I missed out! ;D Like playing with mates essentially but with an edge. Could you ask him things like 'where did you get your shoes from?' after 10 minutes of nothing? Stuff like that?

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #352 on: June 27, 2019, 09:52:33 pm »
chesshotel was down today. Usually on a day off... 9am, kids at school, I'll have a few games. 4 or 5. Look thru one of them maybe. Leaving it on a good note is preferred but can also accept a shit half hour. First day I haven't played a game for months. Was weird. Tea didn't taste the same.

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #353 on: June 27, 2019, 10:43:00 pm »
Ah OK. So if you opened with d4 and he took say 20 seconds to respond with d5, and you then respond with c4 pretty quickly, it would be OK to tell your opponent to get the fuck on with it if he did nothing for 10 minutes? I missed out! ;D Like playing with mates essentially but with an edge. Could you ask him things like 'where did you get your shoes from?' after 10 minutes of nothing? Stuff like that?

Ha ha!

Yeah, I could've done that, didn't strike me then at all. Mind games, I suppose  :D I just stared at the wall behind him, went for a few walks and got back to staring at the wall again   ;D

We could've had a chit chat, but the next board fellas would've probably started throwing things at us  :P

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #354 on: June 27, 2019, 11:59:00 pm »
Ha ha!

Yeah, I could've done that, didn't strike me then at all. Mind games, I suppose  :D I just stared at the wall behind him, went for a few walks and got back to staring at the wall again   ;D

We could've had a chit chat, but the next board fellas would've probably started throwing things at us  :P

I'd have loved this. ;D

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #355 on: June 28, 2019, 12:00:09 am »
'I'm not that good mate... seriously... play your move... we could be out of here by 6 and get to the bar yeah?

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #356 on: June 28, 2019, 12:04:10 am »
There are so many pricks that play chess. Why do people have a problem with clicking the resign button? That's what gets me. It's a noble act... but no... people pretend. They let the clock tick down... why? Do you not mind looking like a bell end? Click the resign button ffs... shake hands. Get a grip yeah?!

Offline stoa

  • way. Daydream. Quite partial to a good plonking.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,421
  • Five+One Times, Baby...
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #357 on: June 28, 2019, 12:50:47 am »
'I'm not that good mate... seriously... play your move... we could be out of here by 6 and get to the bar yeah?

That's one thing I don't get. That Fide rules say that you can't drink alcohol while playing. They've recently implemented or started to enforce that rule in our league. No idea why. Nothing better than sipping a beer while playing. ;)
I remember the stories the older guys in the club used to tell about the 80s and 90s. We had an old bloke in the club who liked a drink or two or ten. One time they had an away game and he turned up completely pissed. When they got to where they were supposed to play it was clear to everyone on the opposite team that he was whacked out of his mind and his opponent took the piss out of him and didn't take him seriously. In the end the completely pissed guy won the game... ;D

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,099
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #358 on: June 28, 2019, 08:05:43 am »
That's one thing I don't get. That Fide rules say that you can't drink alcohol while playing. They've recently implemented or started to enforce that rule in our league. No idea why. Nothing better than sipping a beer while playing. ;)
I remember the stories the older guys in the club used to tell about the 80s and 90s. We had an old bloke in the club who liked a drink or two or ten. One time they had an away game and he turned up completely pissed. When they got to where they were supposed to play it was clear to everyone on the opposite team that he was whacked out of his mind and his opponent took the piss out of him and didn't take him seriously. In the end the completely pissed guy won the game... ;D

I once won an online game while the ASCII board was jumping up and down in front of my eyes, and I was slumped over the keyboard trying to keep the number of visible boards to a manageable level. I recognised my incapability and went to bed after the game.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,099
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Chess World Championship
« Reply #359 on: June 28, 2019, 08:09:45 am »
There are so many pricks that play chess. Why do people have a problem with clicking the resign button? That's what gets me. It's a noble act... but no... people pretend. They let the clock tick down... why? Do you not mind looking like a bell end? Click the resign button ffs... shake hands. Get a grip yeah?!

You either recognise the opponent's ability to finish the game and resign, or challenge them by setting traps at every step and seeing if they can play through. But you don't waste time by just sitting there. For one, you can finish the game and head over to the bar and talk it over, or even talk footie over a beer.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258