Topic: FSG discussion thread

[Avens]

Are we happy with US ownership as our human rights role model?

The Biden administration has determined that Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, should be granted immunity in a case brought against him by the fiancée of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi, whom the administration has said was murdered at the prince’s direction.

We aren't owned by the US government. The nationality of owners doesn't (or shouldn't) matter – it's who they are and what they are responsible for that people take issue with.

[taylorb1991]

Are we happy with US ownership as our human rights role model?

The Biden administration has determined that Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, should be granted immunity in a case brought against him by the fiancée of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi, whom the administration has said was murdered at the prince’s direction.

When did John Henry get in the Whitehouse? Must've missed that one. You sound like a Man City fan

[MPowerYNWA]

When did John Henry get in the Whitehouse? Must've missed that one. You sound like a Man City fan

You keep going on about city in all your posts, you sure you’re not a manc?

[Sharado]

When did John Henry get in the Whitehouse? Must've missed that one. You sound like a Man City fan

They sound like a man city fan for a reason.

[Avens]

The biggest problem here is you think you have a choice. But you know, thats what they like you to think and believe.  Oh and you're free as well. Autonomous indeed

That's not a real answer to the question but to clarify, your suggestion is that if you can't stand up against everything, stand up for nothing? I'm not even asking the question in a loaded way, I genuinely want to know if that's what you think we should do.

[Samie]

For what it's worth I think Saudis  even probably realise they'll have an easier time if they buy the mancs.  The mancs will welcome them with open arms and holy water.

[Avens]

You keep going on about city in all your posts, you sure you’re not a manc?

Are you deliberately ignoring the part of the post that points out that our owners aren't the US government?

[Redric1970]

This thread is now 169 pages of....   of.....

Supermatch game, Supermatch game....

I'd say 'nothing.'

For 50 blanks, what do you say? (I have the answers, and I was nowhere near.)

You bastard as soon as I read that I started singing supermatch game I can’t get it out of my head now.

[Qston]

For what it's worth I think Saudis  even probably realise they'll have an easier time if they buy the mancs.  The mancs will welcome them with open arms and holy water.

I am sure you're right samie. They will know the likely reactions of the fanbase. To be fair to some of the Manc supporters groups I doubt they will be too pleased with a Saudi supported takeover

[MPowerYNWA]

When did John Henry get in the Whitehouse? Must've missed that one. You sound like a Man City fan

So if a Saudi Prince owns is, who doesn’t set the rules in Saudi Arabia, is that ok? 

If the Saudi state buys us, but the majority of people in Saudi Arabia and the Royal Family don’t agree with the laws in Saudi Arabia but are too scared to speak out / rock the boat - is that ok?

I don’t want state ownership in football full stop - it’s destroyed the game, but we shouldn’t be discriminatory towards one group of potential owners vs. others.   

It’s a fact that not everyone in Saudi Arabia is evil, not everyone in the Saudi Royal Family is evil etc.

[taylorb1991]

You keep going on about city in all your posts, you sure you’re not a manc?

Yes, because that takoever in 2008 was the worst thing that's ever happened to football in this country. Not just from a moral standpoint, but they way they operate has caused hyper-inflation in the game to the point that only state-run clubs can keep up, which in turn has led to the Super League idea. For 14 years City have done their upmost to put themselves above the laws of competition....to the point that there is no competition left. 

[NaivetyinBlack]

For what it's worth I think Saudis  even probably realise they'll have an easier time if they buy the mancs.  The mancs will welcome them with open arms and holy water.

But more money to invest in, considering the state of Old Trafford and the whole structure at the club. We are a far attractive option and they'll know that.

All depends on FSG and with the recent resignations, I have a bad feeling.

[Redbonnie]

Ah yes, the convenient get out of  ‘whataboutery’ - we are accountable, so let’s not be selective.

If we were owned by Saudi Arabia a country which stones gay people and women, then the success of my team would promote their regime. Not financially benefit as in an Uber but actively promote.  I could not be part of that. By your logic I would still be a hypocrite if I objected to Kim Jong Un owning Liverpool. So the question is what’s your limit? Who would you judge unsuitable? Putin? Nicolas Madura? Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson? Is there anyone or any country you wouldn’t want to own our club if they coughed up enough cash?

[MBL?]

What are people going to do when they take over the whole country ? They already own 11% of it ?
In fact is 11% enough to make you think to leave the UK?  As you don't know where and when you are contributing to the devil you hate so much ?

Is this not more reason to stand up to this kind of thing?

[MPowerYNWA]

If we were owned by Saudi Arabia a country which stones gay people and women, then the success of my team would promote their regime. Not financially benefit as in an Uber but actively promote.  I could not be part of that. By your logic I would still be a hypocrite if I objected to Kim Jong Un owning Liverpool. So the question is what’s your limit? Who would you judge unsuitable? Putin? Nicolas Madura? Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson? Is there anyone or any country you wouldn’t want to own our club if they coughed up enough cash?

Do you think all Saudi people and Saudi Royals are evil and believe/support their laws?   Or do you think most are good and actually most would love the laws to be changed, but are afraid to rock the boat ?

Here’s a hint - look at Iran national team and supporters - one crazy guy at the top does not represent the country as a whole. People come and go, the leaders will too.

[Dave McCoy]

The Telegraph said that Klopp isnt too arsed about Ward going. I reckon he was probably on the end of a bollocking by Klopp after the midfielder fiasco.

Comical.

[taylorb1991]

So if a Saudi Prince owns is, who doesn’t set the rules in Saudi Arabia, is that ok? 

If the Saudi state buys us, but the majority of people in Saudi Arabia and the Royal Family don’t agree with the laws in Saudi Arabia but are too scared to speak out / rock the boat - is that ok?

I don’t want state ownership in football full stop - it’s destroyed the game, but we shouldn’t be discriminatory towards one group of potential owners vs. others.   

It’s a fact that not everyone in Saudi Arabia is evil, not everyone in the Saudi Royal Family is evil etc.

Never said everyone in Saudi Arabia was evil. You're picking things out of the air.

Even if you remove the moral aspect of a takeover, state run clubs are terrible for football, so we shoud care about the ownership

[Samie]

Tomorrows newspapers are leading with this story about us, the mancs and the Saudis. Definitely a coordinated effort from them today. 

[shuie]

I have to say it's an interesting debate. I've had this debate on twitter also. No club can be pristine within this corporate world but that doesn't mean we jump in head first in to the arms of a Saudi regime that realistically don't care a jot about us as fans.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Yeah I bet you do - keep regurgitating what the media tell you.

I'd suggest you aren't very bright but you more than likely already know this.

[Egyptian36]

This discussion is a waste of time , a takeover backed by a country won't happen. Also it's LFC, 100% everything will be done to stop it we will see new owners rules introduced and who knows what else unlike what will happen if it's Man United.

[beardsleyismessimk1]

That's not a real answer to the question but to clarify, your suggestion is that if you can't stand up against everything, stand up for nothing? I'm not even asking the question in a loaded way, I genuinely want to know if that's what you think we should do.

No. That is not the point. My point is if I don't like something then I wholeheartedly dislike it. So the fact they own at minimum 11% of the uk , the soil you walk on, and will own even more in the near future, to the point where they will own the uk. Then standing up for a little battle is hardly going to win a war you have pretty much already lost. Yes we can stand up and fight our corner for what we believe is right and yes we can win as we have done in the past. And as history has shown us. However there are some that are just losing battles. There's no injustice here other than to your own moral compass.  Where does this outrage stem from ? Because it is highlighted . Are you outraged everytime you heat your home ? Cook a meal ? Get in a mode of transport ? Go somewhere that could be owned by these people  you despise because they are carrying out atrocities that you find abhorrent however have been carried out for the last 2000 years by Christians ?

[Sharado]

Do you think all Saudi people and Saudi Royals are evil and believe/support their laws?   Or do you think most are good and actually most would love the laws to be changed, but are afraid to rock the boat ?

Here’s a hint - look at Iran national team and supporters - one crazy guy at the top does not represent the country as a whole. People come and go, the leaders will too.

The leaders of Saudi Arabia will "come and go"? It's an absolute monarchy! Are you on glue?

[harleydanger]

So if a Saudi Prince owns is, who doesn’t set the rules in Saudi Arabia, is that ok? 

If the Saudi state buys us, but the majority of people in Saudi Arabia and the Royal Family don’t agree with the laws in Saudi Arabia but are too scared to speak out / rock the boat - is that ok?

I don’t want state ownership in football full stop - it’s destroyed the game, but we shouldn’t be discriminatory towards one group of potential owners vs. others.   

It’s a fact that not everyone in Saudi Arabia is evil, not everyone in the Saudi Royal Family is evil etc.

Everyone in the Saudi Royal family is just as accountable as the head of state. Just as with the English royals. William is just as accountable as Elizabeth. They’re all gangsters or children and grandchildren of gangsters. They’re all at the trough and it’s quite easy to go get a job in a factory if they have the moral fibre.

[Redbonnie]

Do you think all Saudi people and Saudi Royals are evil and believe/support their laws?   Or do you think most are good and actually most would love the laws to be changed, but are afraid to rock the boat ?

Here’s a hint - look at Iran national team and supporters - one crazy guy at the top does not represent the country as a whole. People come and go, the leaders will too.

And do you think waving their oppressive governments flag and promoting them like the twats at city do helps their oppressed peoples cause or validates the regime further?  The Iranians are waving union jacks on the streets as two fingers at the government.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Do you genuinely feel this way or are you just poking the hornets' nest for the fun of it?

I think he's trying to get me banned.

[MBL?]

For what it's worth I think Saudis  even probably realise they'll have an easier time if they buy the mancs.  The mancs will welcome them with open arms and holy water.

I may be wrong here but I don’t see mass protests if the Saudis buy the club like when under the clowns. It will be more acceptance that football is further gone and some will lose interest and there will be concerns aired but that’s about it.

[MPowerYNWA]

Everyone in the Saudi Royal family is just as accountable as the head of state. Just as with the English royals. William is just as accountable as Elizabeth. They’re all gangsters or children and grandchildren of gangsters. They’re all at the trough and it’s quite easy to go get a job in a factory if they have the moral fibre.

So is every American accountable for giving immunity to Saudi Arabia crown Prince?   You can’t just tar everyone with the same brush.

[Avens]

No. That is not the point. My point is if I don't like something then I wholeheartedly dislike it. So the fact they own at minimum 11% of the uk , the soil you walk on, and will own even more in the near future, to the point where they will own the uk. Then standing up for a little battle is hardly going to win a war you have pretty much already lost. Yes we can stand up and fight our corner for what we believe is right and yes we can win as we have done in the past. And as history has shown us. However there are some that are just losing battles. There's no injustice here other than to your own moral compass.  Where does this outrage stem from ? Because it is highlighted . Are you outraged everytime you heat your home ? Cook a meal ? Get in a mode of transport ? Go somewhere that could be owned by these people  you despise because they are carrying out atrocities that you find abhorrent however have been carried out for the last 2000 years by Christians ?

Wouldn't it be great if everyone stood up for their own little battles? Sure, we wouldn't end Saudi business interests in the UK but we might highlight to a few more people why it's a problem and we might even win our little battle, something that matters to us. No, we wouldn't solve all of the problems that exist, but we just might fix that one.

[MPowerYNWA]

The leaders of Saudi Arabia will "come and go"? It's an absolute monarchy! Are you on glue?

Are you dumb, have you not heard about death?

[MBL?]

I think he's trying to get me banned.

Haha

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I know, but just thought I'd give the benefit of the doubt by asking him straight.

It's a poor attitude if genuinely held. It's all a bit, fuck that Shankly guy off. Paisley too. Old arses. And the fans that have been there solidly through triumph, disaster and mediocrity. The fans that made the Spion Kop what it is/was. The fans that made the club what it was/is. Yes, just fuck them all off, the miserable twats who won't welcome despotic tyrants.

I tell you, on the one hand I wish men like Shankly were still around but, on the other, I'm glad they aren't anymore, because seeing football today would break their hearts. Same with so many of the Spion Kop regulars who made that terrace the most famous in the world to this day. They'd be turning in their graves if they heard fellow Reds begging for a murdering despot to take over our club.

But yes, fuck off with your tradition, your principles, your history and your morals. Let's just grab ourselves a despot so we can brag about being fuckin' rich. 


I hope anyone off here who does walk away from the game still continues to post. I know I will. There are too many quality people here for me to bin RAWK off.

I'm sure that they'd be a huge fight for our Club before anybody binned it off.


I still say that there's no way in hell that any sports washer would buy us,we're too organised and militant for that shit to fly.

[NaivetyinBlack]

This discussion is a waste of time , a takeover backed by a country won't happen. Also it's LFC, 100% everything will be done to stop it we will see new owners rules introduced and who knows what else unlike what will happen if it's Man United.

Don't think FSG or Saudis will care. One is getting the price they wanted the club sold at, the other is getting what they want bought. Also, they're ruthless. I doubt fan protest would dissuade them from something they think is a good investment.

I'm still hoping for an American consortium of hedge fund managers and I'm okay with how hypocritical that makes me look. At least their wall street work ethic will continue to drive sustainable growth.

[stewy17]

All this Saudi chat about Saudi investment in us or the mancs is also pure sportswashing. They’re already linking themselves to our brands for promotion and good will, even though no bid will ever materialise.

Fuck them.

[Sharado]

Are you dumb, have you not heard about death?

Yes I'm sure the next king of Saudi Arabia will be a progressive socialist.

[MPowerYNWA]

And do you think waving their oppressive governments flag and promoting them like the twats at city do helps their oppressed peoples cause or validates the regime further?  The Iranians are waving union jacks on the streets as two fingers at the government.

Why would someone wave a random countries flag at a football stadium ? Do city fans really wave Qatar flags, as despot regime or not, that would be a dumb thing to do ?

[MPowerYNWA]

Overall I’ll leave you guys to keep discussing it as my bedtime for an early start tomorrow, but irrespective of who buys us, which side of the fence we sit there are 2 things we all do agree on here :

1) bottomless pit of money at certain clubs is destroying football
2) human rights are important and we should all be thinking about how we can make the world a better place

The breadth of number 2 shouldn’t be underestimated and we need to be careful we don’t start generalising about entire populations of countries. Just like Boris or the Queen didn’t represent us, don’t be surprised if the sentiment is the same elsewhere but people are too scared to rock the boat.

Good Night folks !

[lollysportswasher]

Where is this Saudi news is even coming from ? They already own Newcastle unless its some else entirely.

[taylorb1991]

Why would someone wave a random countries flag at a football stadium ? Do city fans really wave Qatar flags, as despot regime or not, that would be a dumb thing to do ?

Why would a City fan wave a Qatar flag???

[McSquared]

Overall I’ll leave you guys to keep discussing it as my bedtime for an early start tomorrow, but irrespective of who buys us, which side of the fence we sit there are 2 things we all do agree on here :

1) bottomless pit of money at certain clubs is destroying football
2) human rights are important and we should all be thinking about how we can make the world a better place

The breadth of number 2 shouldn’t be underestimated and we need to be careful we don’t start generalising about entire populations of countries. Just like Boris or the Queen didn’t represent us, don’t be surprised if the sentiment is the same elsewhere but people are too scared to rock the boat.

Good Night folks !

Up early for school