Author Topic: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?  (Read 329765 times)

Offline AndyInVA

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #120 on: November 2, 2021, 01:29:07 pm »
Jan 6 wasn't serious?

nah, it really wasn't. a few hundred lightly armed people stormed a building where the defenders were determined to not open fire

also to Fitzy - CRT is complete garbage. we have demonstrations at my local education board meetings demanding no CRT taught in schools and they teaching management just tell them it isn't taught in schools and thats that

there may be a few Oklahoma style terrorist events at unhappy people but this country is nowhere near civil war

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #121 on: November 2, 2021, 01:42:01 pm »
nah, it really wasn't. a few hundred lightly armed people stormed a building where the defenders were determined to not open fire

also to Fitzy - CRT is complete garbage. we have demonstrations at my local education board meetings demanding no CRT taught in schools and they teaching management just tell them it isn't taught in schools and thats that

there may be a few Oklahoma style terrorist events at unhappy people but this country is nowhere near civil war
10 years ago I'd say the US were nowhere near a Trump as president and a Jan 6 act of terrorism. Movements may move by degrees but the needle is looking a bit ominous.

Offline Chakan

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #122 on: November 2, 2021, 01:47:41 pm »
nah, it really wasn't. a few hundred lightly armed people stormed a building where the defenders were determined to not open fire

I guess that's one way to put it...

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #123 on: November 2, 2021, 03:39:05 pm »
nah, it really wasn't. a few hundred lightly armed people stormed a building where the defenders were determined to not open fire

The US was minutes away from an unprecedented succession crisis, with the official EC ballots looted or destroyed and the one person necessary for the process detained or incapacitated. Further, one of the key voices in resolving any potential dispute was also being hunted (and having their whereabouts broadcast to the mob by unpunished congressional traitors).

How was Biden supposed to become president if the election couldn't be certified? You can't just say "Well even Fox called it for Biden, case closed". The finest legal minds (and Giuliani) would have been springing into action on both sides, but the fact was that Trump at the time was holding the office and in position to make the stronger moves, and all arguments would have ended up in front of the Republican-packed supreme court.

I don't know if it's some sort of extreme media gaslighting going on, or just a stunning failure to comprehend how broken the US is right now, but to see it dismissed so casually on RAWK in the manner of right wing talking points is yet another harbinger of just how easy it's going to be for the nation to slide into tyranny. AndyInVA at least has shown that they're not interested in any fight to oppose it. As long as regular people who just get up and go to work and love their kids like normal people can carry on doing so, it's all fine.
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #124 on: November 2, 2021, 03:44:08 pm »

I`m reading Woodward & Acosta`s "Peril" right now. The title is apt and makes it very clear as to how dangerous Jan 6th was for the country, not just the people on the Capitol grounds. Amazing the amount of people who want to sweep the deaths and injuries of so many people away just for their own political agendas, even people who were there, felt terrorised and disgusted and said so at the time.
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Offline ShatnersBassoon

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #125 on: November 2, 2021, 03:50:28 pm »
just huge gaslighting going on to diminish/deny what happened because its all about the vote "optics"

if just one single unarmed BLM protester got inside the capitol building and trashed so much as a paperweight, fox news/ republicans would still be screaming outrage about it and demanding all kinds of draconian repercussions.


Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #126 on: November 2, 2021, 04:06:03 pm »
nah, it really wasn't. a few hundred lightly armed people stormed a building where the defenders were determined to not open fire

also to Fitzy - CRT is complete garbage. we have demonstrations at my local education board meetings demanding no CRT taught in schools and they teaching management just tell them it isn't taught in schools and thats that

there may be a few Oklahoma style terrorist events at unhappy people but this country is nowhere near civil war

In full agreement with you that the shouts that a civil war is impending or a real possibility in the near future are laughably ludicrous. It, along with many other extreme talking points, can get amplified in the varying left and right echo chambers on the internet.

Don't think 1/6 should be understated though. That was/is (or should be) a real wake up call for the people of this country and we came far too close to that being an event of incredibly serious proportions.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2021, 04:08:05 pm by Lone Star Red »
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #127 on: November 2, 2021, 04:46:10 pm »
https://www.earthcam.com/usa/texas/dallas/dealeyplaza/?cam=dealeyplaza

There are currently a couple of hundred people camped out in Dallas awaiting JFK's resurrection later today. According to the crazies, he's coming back to life along with Jackie and Jr, going on a tour for a week before dying again, bequeathing the presidency back to Trump with JFK Jr as VP.

Oh yeah, the world is going back to the Julian calendar so tomorrow will be 21st October again.

Guys, you can't negotiate with these people.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #128 on: November 2, 2021, 05:47:53 pm »
https://www.earthcam.com/usa/texas/dallas/dealeyplaza/?cam=dealeyplaza

There are currently a couple of hundred people camped out in Dallas awaiting JFK's resurrection later today. According to the crazies, he's coming back to life along with Jackie and Jr, going on a tour for a week before dying again, bequeathing the presidency back to Trump with JFK Jr as VP.

Oh yeah, the world is going back to the Julian calendar so tomorrow will be 21st October again.

Guys, you can't negotiate with these people.

The Republicans do just that though every election.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline Chakan

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #129 on: November 2, 2021, 05:57:14 pm »
The Republicans do just that though every election.

There's pandering and then there's negotiation

Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #130 on: November 2, 2021, 05:58:30 pm »
https://www.earthcam.com/usa/texas/dallas/dealeyplaza/?cam=dealeyplaza

There are currently a couple of hundred people camped out in Dallas awaiting JFK's resurrection later today. According to the crazies, he's coming back to life along with Jackie and Jr, going on a tour for a week before dying again, bequeathing the presidency back to Trump with JFK Jr as VP.

Oh yeah, the world is going back to the Julian calendar so tomorrow will be 21st October again.

Guys, you can't negotiate with these people.

Could see them from my office here in downtown when I checked a little while ago. Was honestly considering going down there for the comedic value.  ;D

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Offline nozza

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #131 on: November 2, 2021, 11:57:34 pm »
 I have got me fingers in me ears and i am not looking.....everything is just fine. Merricca.

Offline AndyInVA

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #132 on: November 3, 2021, 12:07:30 am »
Could see them from my office here in downtown when I checked a little while ago. Was honestly considering going down there for the comedic value.  ;D


Man. I would have been right down there wandering through the group seeing what they look like.

I mean how often do you get a chance to meet real JFK resurrection believers.

Offline AndyInVA

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #133 on: November 3, 2021, 01:47:03 am »
Results are not completely in yet but it looks like Virginia voted down the line Republican. Virginia votes in odd years and not even years for its state elections. This was deemed to be the first vote on how Biden is doing.

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #134 on: November 3, 2021, 08:10:35 am »
Results are not completely in yet but it looks like Virginia voted down the line Republican. Virginia votes in odd years and not even years for its state elections. This was deemed to be the first vote on how Biden is doing.

Not good for Biden but not a political exception.  The sitting president’s party has lost every election for governor of Virginia over almost half a century – the exception was McAuliffe when he won in 2013 under Obama.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #135 on: November 3, 2021, 09:11:05 am »
https://www.earthcam.com/usa/texas/dallas/dealeyplaza/?cam=dealeyplaza

There are currently a couple of hundred people camped out in Dallas awaiting JFK's resurrection later today. According to the crazies, he's coming back to life along with Jackie and Jr, going on a tour for a week before dying again, bequeathing the presidency back to Trump with JFK Jr as VP.

Oh yeah, the world is going back to the Julian calendar so tomorrow will be 21st October again.

Guys, you can't negotiate with these people.

Why the heck would he choose Dallas to turn up in? All the good memories? I`m kinda reminded of that Bill Hicks bit about his followers wearing crosshair symbols like christians wear crosses.
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Offline AndyInVA

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #136 on: November 3, 2021, 09:47:08 am »
Not good for Biden but not a political exception.  The sitting president’s party has lost every election for governor of Virginia over almost half a century – the exception was McAuliffe when he won in 2013 under Obama.

Ending up being closer than I thought. It was a 10 point difference when I went to bed. Ended up being less than 2-3% in Governor, Lt. Governor and Atty General races.

Offline Caligula?

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #137 on: November 3, 2021, 10:31:19 am »
Not good at all. This is a massive warning sign to Biden and the Democrats for the midterms. They have a year to change something or get absolutely hammered.

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #138 on: November 3, 2021, 10:54:03 am »
Not good at all. This is a massive warning sign to Biden and the Democrats for the midterms. They have a year to change something or get absolutely hammered.

It's out of their hands, unfortunately. Manchin and Sinema don't care about the long term electoral prospects of the Democrats. Ironically, Americans need to give Biden more senators to make these two doucebags irrelevant.

I don't even know if it's possible, but after the husk of the infrastructure bills are passed, those two should be expelled from the senate party. Schumer should resign as majority leader and return to opposition against McConnell. At least that gives them a fighting chance to lay some of the blame with Republicans.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #139 on: November 3, 2021, 11:33:00 am »
Democrats are so disorganized and full of shit. Couldn't organize their way out of a paper bag.

Offline Caligula?

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #140 on: November 3, 2021, 11:36:27 am »
It's out of their hands, unfortunately. Manchin and Sinema don't care about the long term electoral prospects of the Democrats. Ironically, Americans need to give Biden more senators to make these two doucebags irrelevant.

I don't even know if it's possible, but after the husk of the infrastructure bills are passed, those two should be expelled from the senate party. Schumer should resign as majority leader and return to opposition against McConnell. At least that gives them a fighting chance to lay some of the blame with Republicans.

Manchin doesn't care and is going to lose the next election anyway if he even runs at all and Sinema will get primaried. Unfortunately it'll be too little to late.

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #141 on: November 3, 2021, 12:19:34 pm »
For all the talk about primary challenges to establishment conservatives from the less-centrist wing of the Republicans, it seems like something the Democrats don't really dabble in all that much (although I think that's how Ocasio-Cortez got in?)
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Offline wemmick

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #142 on: November 3, 2021, 01:13:39 pm »
Not good at all. This is a massive warning sign to Biden and the Democrats for the midterms. They have a year to change something or get absolutely hammered.
I’m not sure if it is. Virginia is a swing state right now. It trended bluer than it is during the Trump years because he was so unpopular there. McAuliffe was a poor candidate for this election. Too much baggage from the Clinton years and a poor campaigner. I don’t think Democrats liked him much more than Republicans did.

The Democrats need to show they can govern in Congress, without a doubt, but I think it’s hard to see a bad omen yet. Redistricting will play a major role, perhaps the biggest role in which party wins the house. So far, Republicans are struggling to make significant gains even through gerrymandering. They are trying to hold on to what they have. If this trend continues, Republicans will need very high turnout for their candidates and hope Democrats sour on theirs to win back the house.

Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #143 on: November 3, 2021, 01:33:43 pm »
Biden and Democrats would be very stupid to not take this (and some alarming New Jersey results) as a warning sign for 2022. 
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Offline Ashburton

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #144 on: November 3, 2021, 02:01:56 pm »
I’m not sure if it is. Virginia is a swing state right now. It trended bluer than it is during the Trump years because he was so unpopular there. McAuliffe was a poor candidate for this election. Too much baggage from the Clinton years and a poor campaigner. I don’t think Democrats liked him much more than Republicans did.

The Democrats need to show they can govern in Congress, without a doubt, but I think it’s hard to see a bad omen yet. Redistricting will play a major role, perhaps the biggest role in which party wins the house. So far, Republicans are struggling to make significant gains even through gerrymandering. They are trying to hold on to what they have. If this trend continues, Republicans will need very high turnout for their candidates and hope Democrats sour on theirs to win back the house.

It would seem Republicans have 'activated' their far right/sensationalist elements of their voting base who voted for Trump and are trying to keep them engaged (aka will come out to vote) by focusing on certain talking points which resonate not only with that group but with centrist independents who voted for Biden and who are likely open to cross the aisle for the midterms.  Things like Critical Race Theory, parents' role in education - social issues which effect many of their voter-base and their children.  In a way,  Biden limping over the finish line for the election didn't help things - certainly versus the resounding victory he was expecting versus an embattled Trump who was increasingly incompetent.  Without that ability to point to a clear mandate from the American people he was always vulnerable to one or two senators not backing his vision, particularly when there is a noisy progressive wing who is slowly realizing Biden has very limited electoral capital and want him to spend it in their direction - versus a broader Democratic party who is obsessed with repeatedly tacking towards the middle ground and keeping corporate funding flowing in.

Moving forward with Biden's approvals as they are and Trump not the convenient bogeyman, it has to come down to what he gets done in the next 10 months or so as to how viable 2022/2024 will be for the Dems.  Unfortunately some of the things he ran on will be very difficult to pass, not least student loan forgiveness (which at the time looked like an excellent way to mobilise the young dem voter base) even though Biden himself seems to be pulling back from it, perhaps instinctually knowing how it could be spun against him/the Dems.

If Biden does keep looking quite weak, both physically and politically - you do wonder whether the Democrats need to start doing some thinking for next year and I'm sure many vulnerable Dems will look at the Youngkin result (unsurprising by itself) and analyse the size of the swing from some voter subsets (more surprising) now that voters are somewhat free of the stigma for voting for Trump and all the toxicity/negativity that entails.  There seems a real risk that the Democrats are losing some of the social issues voters, particularly when we're seeing some Hispanics lean Republican for some demographics and without Trump in the picture it'll be interesting to see whether that trend grows.

Offline wemmick

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #145 on: November 3, 2021, 02:47:45 pm »
It would seem Republicans have 'activated' their far right/sensationalist elements of their voting base who voted for Trump and are trying to keep them engaged (aka will come out to vote) by focusing on certain talking points which resonate not only with that group but with centrist independents who voted for Biden and who are likely open to cross the aisle for the midterms.  Things like Critical Race Theory, parents' role in education - social issues which effect many of their voter-base and their children.  In a way,  Biden limping over the finish line for the election didn't help things - certainly versus the resounding victory he was expecting versus an embattled Trump who was increasingly incompetent.  Without that ability to point to a clear mandate from the American people he was always vulnerable to one or two senators not backing his vision, particularly when there is a noisy progressive wing who is slowly realizing Biden has very limited electoral capital and want him to spend it in their direction - versus a broader Democratic party who is obsessed with repeatedly tacking towards the middle ground and keeping corporate funding flowing in.

Moving forward with Biden's approvals as they are and Trump not the convenient bogeyman, it has to come down to what he gets done in the next 10 months or so as to how viable 2022/2024 will be for the Dems.  Unfortunately some of the things he ran on will be very difficult to pass, not least student loan forgiveness (which at the time looked like an excellent way to mobilise the young dem voter base) even though Biden himself seems to be pulling back from it, perhaps instinctually knowing how it could be spun against him/the Dems.

If Biden does keep looking quite weak, both physically and politically - you do wonder whether the Democrats need to start doing some thinking for next year and I'm sure many vulnerable Dems will look at the Youngkin result (unsurprising by itself) and analyse the size of the swing from some voter subsets (more surprising) now that voters are somewhat free of the stigma for voting for Trump and all the toxicity/negativity that entails.  There seems a real risk that the Democrats are losing some of the social issues voters, particularly when we're seeing some Hispanics lean Republican for some demographics and without Trump in the picture it'll be interesting to see whether that trend grows.

Agreed, mate. Biden has a very difficult choice ahead. His instinct to move toward the center will and has already hurt him. He is backing away from promises he made to the Millennials and the Zs, and I think that is a grave mistake. How the Republicans run against him and the broader Democratic Party will only matter if they don't fulfill some their promises--student loan forgiveness, DACA, the child tax credit, paid maternal/paternal and medical leave, infrastructure, the ACA premiums, voting rights, etc. They need to get some things done! I think apathy among younger voters (sub-age 40) will pose a greater danger to winning the house than Republicans running on social issue. In part, because the CRT-like issues are much more local in scope than a Congressional race. Progressives also performed relatively well last night on down ballot races across the country-the Mayoral races in Boston and St. Paul, and Ohio 11th, for example--which gives me some pause for thought. So far, it seems like mostly centrist, corporate Democrats fared badly last night. 

Offline Ashburton

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #146 on: November 3, 2021, 04:06:04 pm »
Agreed, mate. Biden has a very difficult choice ahead. His instinct to move toward the center will and has already hurt him. He is backing away from promises he made to the Millennials and the Zs, and I think that is a grave mistake. How the Republicans run against him and the broader Democratic Party will only matter if they don't fulfill some their promises--student loan forgiveness, DACA, the child tax credit, paid maternal/paternal and medical leave, infrastructure, the ACA premiums, voting rights, etc. They need to get some things done! I think apathy among younger voters (sub-age 40) will pose a greater danger to winning the house than Republicans running on social issue. In part, because the CRT-like issues are much more local in scope than a Congressional race. Progressives also performed relatively well last night on down ballot races across the country-the Mayoral races in Boston and St. Paul, and Ohio 11th, for example--which gives me some pause for thought. So far, it seems like mostly centrist, corporate Democrats fared badly last night.

Certainly, in a way Biden was always designed to pull the floating centre voters away from Trump's nationalism/tax cut/hold-your-nose-but-strong-leader - however he was meant to do it by being statesmanlike, to have good political craft and connections to be able to push things through - and then to organise an orderly transition.  We're starting to see Biden's disapprovals push beyond 50% which to me indicates independents are half turning their backs from the level of statesmanship we've seen so far (little ability to galvanize the party, and questionable on the world stage - though we always knew that would be a Biden weakness).  If the Dems consider this terminal then they may need to switch to appeasing the progressive wing as you say, to bolster turn-out - but the fact of the matter is Biden's unpopularity with that side of the party is unchanged from the primaries and he's only in the position he's in due to Warren/Sanders/Obama backing him and getting that wing to support Biden to secure the larger goal of removing Trump.    Now that we're left in the rubble and Biden has come out as exactly what he was originally, an establishment Democrat - yet with control (albeit marginal) of the three branches of government there are significant expectations he's going to need to do something about.

My problem with Biden now pivoting full on towards things like Student Loan Forgiveness, DACA, voting rights etc is I'm not sure he'd be picking up many voters for this as those demographics aided by this are typically D voters, you're only stemming the tide from those who already voted for you versus the potential risk of alienation of many of those independents which gave Biden his job in the first place.  I'd expect him to end up passing a washed-down version of the infrastructure bill (something which the USA badly needs) and to proceed with re-districting/gerrymandering to try and stem some of the tide, however trying to put together a successful 2022 mid-term platform with the broader macroeconomics at play is a brutal challenge I'm not sure anyone could get right. 

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #147 on: November 3, 2021, 04:44:15 pm »


Quote
https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1455722698689196033

WHITE WOMEN COLLEGE GRADS
VA 2020: 58% Biden, 41% Trump
VA 2021: 62% McAuliffe, 38% Youngkin

WHITE WOMEN NON-COLLEGE
VA 2020: 56% Trump, 44% Biden
VA 2021: 75% Youngkin, 25% McAuliffe

(via @NBCNews
 Exit Polls)

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #148 on: November 3, 2021, 10:24:51 pm »
Another Georgia in NJ.

Murphy now slightly ahead with heavily Dem precincts and mail ballots still to be counted,

Of course the Repugs will cry steal and bring Sydney back.
Kill the humourless

Offline Iska

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #149 on: November 4, 2021, 01:35:19 pm »

Hate seeing charts like this, you saw it all the time after brexit.  Higher/lower educated people have different priorities, there’s not a ‘right’ answer that education makes you more likely to understand.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #150 on: November 4, 2021, 01:44:21 pm »

Offline Nobby Reserve

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A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Chakan

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #152 on: November 4, 2021, 01:51:06 pm »


Not that any of the voters would have cared anyway, unless they had actually been laid off.

Offline Garrus

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #153 on: November 4, 2021, 02:54:53 pm »


Quote
https://www.axios.com/virginia-governor-private-equity-bash-youngkin-ebcbbb72-8281-471b-898c-dcfcf5d7337a.html

McAuliffe's last investment in Carlyle appears to have been 16 years ago. That's well before the firm began investing in mobile homes, which is what McAuliffe recently criticized. Moreover, McAuliffe does did not invest in any Carlyle real estate funds.


Offline Garrus

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #154 on: November 4, 2021, 02:59:18 pm »
Hate seeing charts like this, you saw it all the time after brexit.  Higher/lower educated people have different priorities, there’s not a ‘right’ answer that education makes you more likely to understand.
Nobody's talking about a right or wrong answer. Dems have taken a beating in this demographic and need to figure out how to get through to them. If, as has been reported, nearly a quarter of these voters considered "Critical Race Theory" the most important issue, how exactly are people going to address this?

Offline Ashburton

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #155 on: November 4, 2021, 03:57:59 pm »
Nobody's talking about a right or wrong answer. Dems have taken a beating in this demographic and need to figure out how to get through to them. If, as has been reported, nearly a quarter of these voters considered "Critical Race Theory" the most important issue, how exactly are people going to address this?

Part of it may be to try and de-link the typical 'thick, racist voters - why listen to them at all' narrative, with engagement in order to draw in some of that voting population which appears to have drifted away from the Democrats.  Potentially in response to what they see as a party who has been captured by what they perceive as a disconnected elite which self-serves more than it reaches out for everyday Americans.  Two thirds of the country doesn't have a college degree, yet we see so much effort and political capital put in to trying to offer a Student Loan Forgiveness package to those, effectively a majorly regressive policy which has low popularity numbers amongst anyone except the u30s.

With Trump, ironically we may have a problem for the Democrats now that we've let the rabbit out of the hat when it comes to the contempt for the average rural voter, but more importantly it sent a message to the large amount of the nation who are soft c conservatives who were specifically sought after to vote for support Biden's platform.  Nothing too un-American, nothing which sounds too much like communism and a focus on American values and prosperity they could feel in their back pockets.  To some degree you've seen R and D voters be quite consistent with support for Biden (or lack of it in the R case), but it has been Independents who have cratered their support and that either galvanizes the BBB mandate or weakens it depends on your perspective.

Were you invested from the left of the party you'd likely see a weakening mandate and looming mid-terms and want to jam through anything possible which pleases your base - to be bold; whereas for the more conservative Democrats who are vulnerable next year they absolutely need a win - and not a watered down win as we saw with the ACA and Obama.  Infrastructure is badly needed of course, the US has some truly shocking areas for a country that size - but the question is how many unrelated riders we end up seeing attached to bloat it, for example the bung for already high-cost electric vehicle manufacturers whilst ignoring many of the social security improvements which are highly necessary, and only increasingly so with the current inflationary backdrop.  What is for sure is the Democrats need to bring these people back on-side and being seen to understand and legislate in the direction of MAGA in its non-partisan form (which is effectively what BBB is) may be able to bring these floating never-Trumper conservatives back online as vote winners for the next series of cycles.
« Last Edit: November 4, 2021, 03:59:49 pm by Ashburton »

Offline Iska

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #156 on: November 4, 2021, 07:07:49 pm »
Nobody's talking about a right or wrong answer. Dems have taken a beating in this demographic and need to figure out how to get through to them. If, as has been reported, nearly a quarter of these voters considered "Critical Race Theory" the most important issue, how exactly are people going to address this?
Yeah that’s the correct response, but it’s far too rarely the accompanying narrative when I see those kind of charts.

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #157 on: November 4, 2021, 08:43:54 pm »
I came in here to see if that QAnon JFK thing was legit, because my brain had a hard time believing it was real. Sure enough...

I mean, when you've got that many people gathering in one place all sharing the same complete divorce from reality, what more can you say? I mean...that's just fucking scary, isn't it? You put that kind of thing down to serious mental illness, normally, but there's literally tens of thousands of the bastards over there. How can a society fail so badly. I was talking to one of the mentalists on one of those internet chat boxes that accompany online streams, and he did'nt believe space is real. Like, he thinks NASA and space itself is a hoax and we live in a bowl. I don't even know what to say to that.

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #158 on: November 4, 2021, 09:14:01 pm »
I came in here to see if that QAnon JFK thing was legit, because my brain had a hard time believing it was real. Sure enough...

I mean, when you've got that many people gathering in one place all sharing the same complete divorce from reality, what more can you say? I mean...that's just fucking scary, isn't it? You put that kind of thing down to serious mental illness, normally, but there's literally tens of thousands of the bastards over there. How can a society fail so badly. I was talking to one of the mentalists on one of those internet chat boxes that accompany online streams, and he did'nt believe space is real. Like, he thinks NASA and space itself is a hoax and we live in a bowl. I don't even know what to say to that.

39k people turn up to Goodison Park every other weekend.
And all the world is football shaped, It's just for me to kick in space. And I can see, hear, smell, touch, taste.

Offline Garrus

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #159 on: November 5, 2021, 07:39:57 am »
What's just as weird is that these people think JFK would have done a complete 180 in the afterlife and come back as a MAGA Republican.