Author Topic: Kop to be expanded ... (Read 171794 times)

coct3au · « **Reply #80 on:** August 22, 2017, 06:22:08 pm »

Quote from: davidsteventon on August 20, 2017, 09:39:26 am

LOADS of people could not work out where they were. Loads heading for the back row because that's where the season ticket was and lots of confused discussions. Club haven't really publicised this expansion for some reason so quite a number didn't realise.

It's also because (IIRC) the row numbers are painted on the step (facing out) *above* the row they're referring to. So because there isn't anything past the back row to paint the number on, the back row doesn't have a visible row number, you have to infer it. So people were going up to the top and thinking "the biggest number on the floor is 76 (or whatever), so the back row must be 76, and my ticket is 74, so I'm in the 3rd row down from the top." But NO!

Why they didn't paint the numbers directly on the row floor, instead of in between rows, I really don't know. Perhaps to save repainting them due to wear? Lazy gets.

davidsteventon · « **Reply #81 on:** August 26, 2017, 09:47:48 am »

Yeah I think the row was 68, but the last painted number you saw was 67. Need to write '68' on the back somewhere to make it more obvious.

Alan_X · « **Reply #82 on:** August 26, 2017, 10:08:42 am »

From Wednesday. A very neat job:

peterstanding · « **Reply #83 on:** October 22, 2017, 10:53:58 am »

Alan, if the Kop was squared off, how many extra seats would this add?

bird_lfc · « **Reply #84 on:** October 22, 2017, 11:03:44 am »

Quote from: Eerie Alan_X on August 26, 2017, 10:08:42 am

From Wednesday. A very neat job:

looks awesome that.

poopscoop · « **Reply #85 on:** October 23, 2017, 04:05:22 pm »

Don't know if I'd want to be on that on a big european night. Remember Celtic stress testing the Anny Road for us many moons ago. Can't imagine that structure coping with much excitement.

Timeless Melody · « **Reply #86 on:** November 10, 2017, 07:37:50 am »

CraigDS · « **Reply #87 on:** November 10, 2017, 01:24:13 pm »

The view from the back would probably be one of the worst in the country.

Son of Spion · « **Reply #88 on:** November 10, 2017, 05:40:22 pm »

Quote from: CraigDS on November 10, 2017, 01:24:13 pm

The view from the back would probably be one of the worst in the country.

Yes, you could probably see Goodison from up there.

meady1981 · « **Reply #89 on:** November 10, 2017, 05:59:36 pm »

Utterly rediculous

TepidT2O · « **Reply #90 on:** November 10, 2017, 06:00:53 pm »

Indeed... could have got 2k more in by filling in that corner...

Disgrace!

John_P · « **Reply #91 on:** November 11, 2017, 07:40:17 pm »

What happened to the slides?

poopscoop · « **Reply #92 on:** November 14, 2017, 09:32:42 am »

The mega kop above fills me with worry. Just look at it, anyone sitting in the 200s or above has no stair access all those late comers and early leavers crawling over you to get in/out not to mention the lack of toileting provision. I hope this proposal has plentiful piss chutes etched into the floor.

meady1981 · « **Reply #93 on:** November 14, 2017, 10:26:08 am »

Quote from: Tepid T₂O on November 10, 2017, 06:00:53 pm

Indeed... could have got 2k more in by filling in that corner...

Disgrace!

Couple of restricted views but certainly viable

McrRed · « **Reply #94 on:** November 14, 2017, 05:14:30 pm »

Quote from: meady1981 on November 14, 2017, 10:26:08 am

Couple of restricted views but certainly viable

[emoji4]

TepidT2O · « **Reply #95 on:** November 14, 2017, 05:53:39 pm »

Quote from: meady1981 on November 14, 2017, 10:26:08 am

Couple of restricted views but certainly viable

That’s more like it.

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #96 on:** November 14, 2017, 07:25:53 pm »

Quote from: CraigDS on November 10, 2017, 01:24:13 pm

The view from the back would probably be one of the worst in the country.

Yes, it would be. You can extend the kop but you need to stay within design and safety guidelines (which this doesn't).

If you do, you could add about 2,750 seats. Even at that, some parts would be well over Walton Breck Road and you need to deal with property owners, the church, highways, security issues...). You'd also need a new roof (or lift up and extend the old one - it can be done).

On the other hand if Building Control decide that this is effectively new build (which they will), you need to rip out all the existing seats and replace them on wider steps. And you would lose about 2,400 seats.

So for all that pain, grief and money, you'd gain about 350 seats.

You could go the whole hog, push way over Walton Breck Road and build to the absolute maximum with a curved back to the stand to keep within sightline distances and get another 2,150 seats. A total of 2,500 additional seats at a cost of say £70m or over £30k per additional seat for a complete rebuild, some mad cap engineering/civils and a long and protected process to agree with highways etc.

CraigDS · « **Reply #97 on:** November 14, 2017, 07:28:47 pm »

Quote from: Peter McGurk on November 14, 2017, 07:25:53 pm

On the other hand if Building Control decide that this is effectively new build (which they will), you need to rip out all the existing seats and replace them on wider steps - so, a re-build then. And you would lose about 2,400 seats.

Did they decide that with the new Main? I remember some reprofiling of the steps going on but can't remember if all of them got done or just some of them.

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #98 on:** November 14, 2017, 07:31:31 pm »

Quote from: CraigDS on November 14, 2017, 07:28:47 pm

Did they decide that with the new Main? I remember some reprofiling of the steps going on but can't remember if all of them got done or just some of them.

As far as I can recall, the steps were re-profiled back to the hospitality at least, which effectively means all of them.

Note the staging:

You might get more seats for your money by building in both corners (about 4,500 if you took the commentary box away). But then you have to replace the roof support column for that end of the Main and Kenny Dalglish stands and both of the kop roof supports. The end result would be a little bit like the Millennium Stadium but you'd still be paying £20k or £30k an additional seat in the kop itself:

Iska · « **Reply #99 on:** November 15, 2017, 03:29:30 pm »

How about this? Could put it up on the other side of Walton Breck Road and solve everything.

newterp · « **Reply #100 on:** November 15, 2017, 05:45:01 pm »

Quote from: Iska on November 15, 2017, 03:29:30 pm

How about this? Could put it up on the other side of Walton Breck Road and solve everything.

It's going to be hilarious when people are falling off that thing during games....ok it wont be - but you know what I mean

The Lord Admiral · « **Reply #101 on:** November 16, 2017, 02:29:09 am »

Quote from: Peter McGurk on November 14, 2017, 07:25:53 pm

On the other hand if Building Control decide that this is effectively new build (which they will), you need to rip out all the existing seats and replace them on wider steps. And you would lose about 2,400 seats.

That's the crucial bit. You reckon there's no way around that Peter?

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #102 on:** December 8, 2017, 05:31:54 pm »

Quote from: The Lord Admiral on November 16, 2017, 02:29:09 am

That's the crucial bit. You reckon there's no way around that Peter?

I've just refreshed my memory on "FIFA publication Football Stadiums – Technical Recommendations and Requirements" - a fascinating read,,, and noticed that the recommended back to back seating distance has gone up another 50mm to 850mm and they're now referencing safety as a factor as well as 'comfort'. Wait another year and it will be the full armchair.

UK building regs require that a significant change in part would be a 'material change' to the whole thing. If FIFA's talking about 850mm and safety in the same sentence, they're going to defer to FIFA. I think it would be pretty hard for anyone to argue they have done the best they can by adding several thousand seats and not taking the safety of all into account - even if the exits/ escapes are upgraded properly.

Safe standing at 1.8:1 or thereabouts or rebuild the whole thing seems to be the only ways to get really significant extra numbers on the (Spion) Kop.

While we're at a rebuilt, I'd go towards the full 34 degrees pitch, which would make it a pretty awesome stand - however difficult to achieve (road, churches, overshadowing...) and pay for.

The Lord Admiral · « **Reply #103 on:** December 11, 2017, 07:17:40 am »

Cheers for the reply.

I just read somewhere that Sheffield Utd are in the process of taking their roof off and going backwards to create a bigger Kop. I think they've managed to get away with it not being deemed a new build. Might be a bit harder for a PL club to get away with it, but it is something of a precedent.

Alan_X · « **Reply #104 on:** December 11, 2017, 08:02:44 am »

Quote from: The Lord Admiral on December 11, 2017, 07:17:40 am

Cheers for the reply.

I just read somewhere that Sheffield Utd are in the process of taking their roof off and going backwards to create a bigger Kop. I think they've managed to get away with it not being deemed a new build. Might be a bit harder for a PL club to get away with it, but it is something of a precedent.

I had a look at the planning application. It's a proposed extension to the rear of the existing stand adding around 3,000 seats. The existing Kop rows are 650mm and the new would be 850mm in line with new guidance.

https://planningapps.sheffield.gov.uk/online-applications/files/FAD118429CF1B16AD277DA41EA6852AE/pdf/09_00602_FUL-PROPOSED_KOP_PLANS__ELEVATIONS___VISUALS-353421.pdf

It's the same principle as our new Main Stand. Retain the existing seating and build behind with a new roof over the lot.

Edit - they've applied to extend that permission extended and it's been approved.

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #105 on:** December 13, 2017, 05:38:01 pm »

Can't see that link. Not sure what I'm looking at here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=972086 - the video doesn't match the drawing or is this a different stand?

Alan_X · « **Reply #106 on:** December 13, 2017, 06:09:02 pm »

Quote from: Peter McGurk on December 13, 2017, 05:38:01 pm

Can't see that link. Not sure what I'm looking at here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=972086 - the video doesn't match the drawing or is this a different stand?

It's the extended Kop and the new South Stand - the final shot in the video has the new South Stand to the left and the extended Kop to the right. There are two separate applications. The chances of either happening are fairly remote I'd have thought. Average attendances are 20,000 - 22,000 or about 10,000 under capacity.

The South Stand scheme was a bid to make Brammall Lane one of the stadiums for an English World Cup bid. The FA said they'd choose Hillsborough anyway so can't see it going ahead unless United have been promoted and established themselves in the Premier League.

Peter McGurk · « **Reply #107 on:** December 25, 2017, 01:23:36 am »

Quote from: Alan_X on December 13, 2017, 06:09:02 pm

It's the extended Kop and the new South Stand - the final shot in the video has the new South Stand to the left and the extended Kop to the right. There are two separate applications. The chances of either happening are fairly remote I'd have thought. Average attendances are 20,000 - 22,000 or about 10,000 under capacity.

The South Stand scheme was a bid to make Brammall Lane one of the stadiums for an English World Cup bid. The FA said they'd choose Hillsborough anyway so can't see it going ahead unless United have been promoted and established themselves in the Premier League.

You'd think they'd pass it by Building Control before putting in a planning application. 850mm for a World Cup bid I understand but as for leaving the rest as they are...

Richie69 · « **Reply #108 on:** January 9, 2018, 02:57:12 am »

For the Kop I'm not sure its worth any work until we're in a position to implement safe standing (roughly 1.8 seats to 1), which would be a massive increase in capacity / atmosphere.

Otherwise the benefits look negligible for a huge spend.

kaesarsosei · « **Reply #109 on:** January 12, 2018, 03:34:09 pm »

I hadn't checked in on this forum for over a year and I see plenty of discussion of expanding the Kop. Surely that's completely unrealistic? I thought the Anfield Road was the only thing remaining that had any remote chance of being improved?

IMO safe standing on the Kop is the only feasible way it can see a notable capacity increase.

meady1981 · « **Reply #110 on:** January 12, 2018, 03:47:34 pm »

Quote from: kaesarsosei on January 12, 2018, 03:34:09 pm

I hadn't checked in on this forum for over a year and I see plenty of discussion of expanding the Kop. Surely that's completely unrealistic? I thought the Anfield Road was the only thing remaining that had any remote chance of being improved?

IMO safe standing on the Kop is the only feasible way it can see a notable capacity increase.

It goes round in circles mate.
Now and again someone will come over from Skyscraper city demanding we build a Kop bigger than the moon, or just bung another tier on top like it was a bit of lego. Alan will give a detailed explanation of the outlandish cost logistics per extra seat and engineering drawbacks which render the process un-workable, Peter will talk about town planning, Craig will patiently argue with whiteboots who wants FSG strung up by their yankee doodles and I'll butt in with a couple of pithy one liners. Repeat that every couple of months and you get the picture.

RedSince86 · « **Reply #111 on:** January 12, 2018, 03:55:01 pm »

Saw the new half built Spurs stadium on TV last night and their single seater stand behind one of the goals is starting to take shape....Looks like it's going to be pretty big and steep.

RedorRed · « **Reply #112 on:** January 12, 2018, 06:48:58 pm »

Quote from: RedSince86 on January 12, 2018, 03:55:01 pm

Saw the new half built Spurs stadium on TV last night and their single seater stand behind one of the goals is starting to take shape....Looks like it's going to be pretty big and steep.

I think it’s going to be 17,000 seats.

Alan_X · « **Reply #113 on:** January 13, 2018, 12:00:00 am »

Quote from: RedorRed on January 12, 2018, 06:48:58 pm

I think it’s going to be 17,000 seats.

It'll be impressive. The only problem is it'll be full of Spurs fans.

"Ooohhh.... whhheeennn.... thhheeee.... Ssspppuuurrrssss...."

Motty · « **Reply #114 on:** January 13, 2018, 01:58:47 am »

Quote from: meady1981 on January 12, 2018, 03:47:34 pm

It goes round in circles mate.
Now and again someone will come over from Skyscraper city demanding we build a Kop bigger than the moon, or just bung another tier on top like it was a bit of lego. Alan will give a detailed explanation of the outlandish cost logistics per extra seat and engineering drawbacks which render the process un-workable, Peter will talk about town planning, Craig will patiently argue with whiteboots who wants FSG strung up by their yankee doodles and I'll butt in with a couple of pithy one liners. Repeat that every couple of months and you get the picture.

[emoji23] pretty bang on that.

poopscoop · « **Reply #115 on:** January 15, 2018, 02:14:56 pm »

Quote from: RedorRed on January 12, 2018, 06:48:58 pm

I think it’s going to be 17,000 seats.

I don't suffer stadium envy anymore. A good Anny Road redevelopment would be welcome but I'm not going to lose sleep over what Spurs do. Anfield yesterday was testament enough to the quality of people in the ground rather than the numbers.
Arsenal have their shiny 50/60,000 stadium and it is full of whoppers with one song. Spurs will be the same.

meady1981 · « **Reply #116 on:** January 15, 2018, 02:49:44 pm »

I've got envy, imagine the racket we'd make with it. Look at the size of the bastard. And being built with safe standing specs in mind. It's what you do with it that counts though...

Thepooloflife · « **Reply #117 on:** January 15, 2018, 07:00:25 pm »

That's very reminiscent of the old standing Kop - albeit steeper.......with the curved corners etc. What I don't understand with our present Kop is when it was being built, why didn't they factor in the curved corners (like this picture) to replicate the experience from the old Kop ? I know it's easy in hindsight to talk about this now, but even so.

CraigDS · « **Reply #118 on:** January 15, 2018, 07:02:12 pm »

Quote from: Thepooloflife on January 15, 2018, 07:00:25 pm

That's very reminiscent of the old standing Kop - albeit steeper.......with the curved corners etc. What I don't understand with our present Kop is when it was being built, why didn't they factor in the curved corners (like this picture) to replicate the experience from the old Kop ? I know it's easy in hindsight to talk about this now, but even so.

Probably due to the existing Main and Centenary stands and their roof / roof supports.

The Lord Admiral · « **Reply #119 on:** January 16, 2018, 04:17:26 am »

Quote from: poopscoop on January 15, 2018, 02:14:56 pm

I don't suffer stadium envy anymore. A good Anny Road redevelopment would be welcome but I'm not going to lose sleep over what Spurs do. Anfield yesterday was testament enough to the quality of people in the ground rather than the numbers.
Arsenal have their shiny 50/60,000 stadium and it is full of whoppers with one song. Spurs will be the same.

Imagine the mad noise we could make though with 65,000. Load of rowdy youngsters to balance out the arlearses.