Author Topic: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.  (Read 32147 times)

Offline DyingAtheist

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #40 on: October 6, 2015, 12:15:05 pm »
Won't go on forever, but, I'm still saddened by the news of Rodgers leaving us. It was probably the time, don't deny that for a moment, and I also don't prescribe to the idea that he wasn't afforded enough time overall - but, man, a gif of him pops up every now and again in the threads and I just think... I really liked the guy.

Maybe that's daft.
I really only know/see him as LFC manager, from soundbites and interviews (and even those became somewhat self-occupied and weird towards the end) but I firmly believe the guy fought hard for this club and that he has it in him to be a great manager one day, he just lost his confidence, he got scared, and now he needs to rebuild himself at a smaller club. We've had some amazing managers, we've had some terrible managers, but the ones that truly stick with me are the ones who seem to 'get' us and I think Rodgers did from day one.

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #41 on: October 6, 2015, 12:16:36 pm »
It's crazy when you think about it, that such intelligent people would pursue such an obviously flawed and risky policy. The manager & DOF are arguably the two most important appointments they would make, and they screwed up both of them. That sounds rather insulting to Rodgers, but I don't mean it to be. My point is that he was never qualified for the job.
You can argue they almost got it right and we were one slip away from the Holy grail, that would have been justification for their policy.

I don't think Rodgers was a mistake, if you hire a young, inexperienced coach you follow it through properly and take the odd rough patch. If you're not prepared for that, hire an experienced coach who will give you the instant success. The problem was ending up with this bastardised transfer policy where we have a TC and a manager at loggerheads and wanting different things.

If Rodgers didn't want a DoF/TC then don't hire him or don't have a DoF/TC, don't try and be smart and hire the guy and then put a TC in place that is basically acting as a DoF.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #42 on: October 6, 2015, 12:19:27 pm »
Fair points,

I recognize the risk with Klopp & wish they reappointed Rafa on numerous occasions. Ancoletti is the more measured signing, he's intelligent, he's stable & he's very experienced. I just don't know if he is the right fit for now. He probably would have been more suited to inherit Rafa's squad as the team was there, he just needed to mould it a bit.

Despite the risks, Klopp is probably what we need right now, someone who can come in and galvanize the troops (fans and players alike) & inject some energy and passion back into this team. He's also someone that will work under a DOF, depending on who we chose. I think this is a crucial appointment and something we desperately need to get right.

I'd like to see them bring some ex players back into the fold, so we have more experience and heritage throughout the club. They should be given positions that hold some weight, much more than ambassadorial roles.

I kind of agree. Ancelotti would have been great after Rafa, a lot players would have stayed and the downfall wouldn't have been that dramatic.

I also like the idea of an ex player as an assistant to Klopp but there is only one way to go IMO....


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Offline jepovic

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #43 on: October 6, 2015, 12:21:25 pm »
From where I'm sitting, I see two major problems that led to Brendan's failure.

The first is that he didn't manage to recruit or organize the right staff. LFC is a much bigger organization than anything he has ever run before, where the manager has to delegate much of the work. The scouting seems utterly random, and the preparation for Suarez predictable departure was pathetic. I don't think for a minute that FSG would have stopped Brendan from changing the organization if he would have wanted to.

The second problem is that he didn't seem to learn from mistakes or acknowledge his weaknesses, despite his youth. Brendan took pride in not hiring someone to help him with the defense, although this was clearly needed. Brendan's lack of international experience was evident everywhere, from the scouting to the performance in the european cups, but he didn't seem to be able to compensate for this. 

Offline Sangria

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #44 on: October 6, 2015, 12:22:43 pm »
Yep, basically FSG are saying they got this completely wrong. Not just that Brendan was the wrong man but that he had the wrong profile. If they hire Klopp they would be, at the very least, getting a man with the right profile.

The only way that FSG's  model made sense, i.e. a young coach, would be with an experienced DOF. In that system the coach is expendable but the philosophy is not. In fairness that's originally what they wanted. What we ended up with was a fudge.

Just as a postscript, the idea that Klopp would choose his own DOF would be another fudge but that's for  another thread.

If we end up with Dortmund's coach and DoF, we'll have looked at what worked elsewhere, and imported the model in whole. Which is more logical than assuming from the outset that everyone else had got everything wrong, and that the newcomers from Boston will revolutionise the game with their fresh approach. I think FSG have well and truly lost that initial arrogance, and recognised that there is revolution enough in the game, but all of it is built on established wisdom, and that the freshest effective approaches are found abroad in Europe.
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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #45 on: October 6, 2015, 12:25:32 pm »
You can argue they almost got it right and we were one slip away from the Holy grail, that would have been justification for their policy.

I don't think Rodgers was a mistake, if you hire a young, inexperienced coach you follow it through properly and take the odd rough patch. If you're not prepared for that, hire an experienced coach who will give you the instant success. The problem was ending up with this bastardised transfer policy where we have a TC and a manager at loggerheads and wanting different things.

If Rodgers didn't want a DoF/TC then don't hire him or don't have a DoF/TC, don't try and be smart and hire the guy and then put a TC in place that is basically acting as a DoF.
You could argue that.

My point is that it was an unnecessary risk to appoint someone so fresh faced.
Despite Rodgers almost winning the league, and fucking hell it was some achievement! You could also clearly see that he was learning on the job; learning parts of the game that should be second nature to him at this stage. My view on Brendan, is that if he stayed at Swansea (or similar) for a further 2-3 years, he may have learned some of the basics before joining us. Then he'd be in a much better position to achieve sustainable success. There's no doubt he has his talents, but he has major limitations too (for now).

I don't think a DOF would have changed too much of the above. It merely would have made it easier to replace Brendan, which doesn't solve anything.


Offline conman

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #46 on: October 6, 2015, 12:27:14 pm »
I kind of agree. Ancelotti would have been great after Rafa, a lot players would have stayed and the downfall wouldn't have been that dramatic.

I also like the idea of an ex player as an assistant to Klopp but there is only one way to go IMO....


Carra!!!!
I mentioned Carra as assistant yesterday too.

I'd love to see Digger, Rush, Kenny, etc having a part to play behind the scenes. I'm not sure what exactly, but i'd like them to be close to the DOF.

Offline conman

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #47 on: October 6, 2015, 12:31:01 pm »
If we end up with Dortmund's coach and DoF, we'll have looked at what worked elsewhere, and imported the model in whole. Which is more logical than assuming from the outset that everyone else had got everything wrong, and that the newcomers from Boston will revolutionise the game with their fresh approach. I think FSG have well and truly lost that initial arrogance, and recognised that there is revolution enough in the game, but all of it is built on established wisdom, and that the freshest effective approaches are found abroad in Europe.
The two DOF's which have been mooted are Zorg & Cortese, from Dortmund and Southampton respectively. Both of these appear to be clubs adhere to policies which FSG appear to admire. So FSG do seem to be more in favour of importing something that works, rather than reinventing the wheel so to speak. It's a pity they have fallen between these two stools thus far. Maybe they will push on and get their preferred (copied) model over the line.

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #48 on: October 6, 2015, 12:39:33 pm »
Brendan was quite an enigma for LFC, going from almost hero to zero in such a small space of time.

Some questionable results may not have been bad but I think the stick that always beats him, as with many managers, are the transfer deals. What muddies the water even more is this ridiculous transfer committee which frankly may turn out was more successful than Brendan's own picks.

The investment put into the club is staggering, yet neither performance or results would indicate as such. He couldn't make it work and lost the fans early this season, each game was as bad as the last and the apathy around the club was starting to show. He did his best, he will be remembered fondly for that incredible season but sadly little else. He loved the city and respects the fans so he goes with no ill feelings from me.

Good luck to him in future ventures, bar any games against us ofc!

- all in my opinion of course -

Offline conman

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #49 on: October 6, 2015, 12:45:26 pm »
Brendan was quite an enigma for LFC, going from almost hero to zero in such a small space of time.

Some questionable results may not have been bad but I think the stick that always beats him, as with many managers, are the transfer deals. What muddies the water even more is this ridiculous transfer committee which frankly may turn out was more successful than Brendan's own picks.

The investment put into the club is staggering, yet neither performance or results would indicate as such. He couldn't make it work and lost the fans early this season, each game was as bad as the last and the apathy around the club was starting to show. He did his best, he will be remembered fondly for that incredible season but sadly little else. He loved the city and respects the fans so he goes with no ill feelings from me.

Good luck to him in future ventures, bar any games against us ofc!
Rafa and Ged went from zero to hero too, as they achieved immediate success.

Offline penga

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. All the best Brendan.
« Reply #50 on: October 6, 2015, 01:23:53 pm »
the bit about working for Maureen always sat uneasily with me for truly he is a graceless twat. Mourinho makes Ferguson look like Cary Grant.
May have worked with him but glad he is/was nothing like him - except in the defensive organisation! Pretty much always talked respectfully to and about all parties and talked about the beautiful game, about trying to dominate the ball and attack. He tried to immerse himself in the history of the club always speaking about it in a good light. He tried to bring up the youth and give them chances. He wanted to show us British players were technically gifted. People may have got sick of some of his sound bites but he was never close to being as bad as Hodgson. A bit of arrogance and stubbornness when things were looking a bit down but all managers have/need that. When he was getting poor performances and results I'm not sure what else he could have said to make people happy, the fact is no one is happy when it doesn't go your way. Look at Mourinho melting down hardcore now and giving rants, Rodgers was alright.

His philosophy matched what most of us wanted and gave us hope but in the end he couldn't get his real vision out onto the pitch effectively and got lost. Since Benitez's 08/09 season the club has been quite terrible and have underperformed for a long time, we still have reasonable money to compete towards the top but there has been something missing in the club. Spurs have finished above us every season since then except for 2013/14 - the one season he made it work, got us O so close and helped us play the most entertaining attacking football over a season we have produced in a couple of decades.

Then we all know with Suarez leaving and Studge being injured, some poor buys in the market, players losing confidence - things could get rough and they did culminating in a shocking end to the season. FSG accepted that and gave him one more chance to fix it considering the 13/14 season. I don't really blame FSG for not pulling the trigger at the end of the season, it might have been smarter in hindsight but I reckon most supporters wanted to give him a bit more time, this is Liverpool not supposed to be a sacking club afterall. After another big transfer window Rodgers needed a good start - a couple of close but lacklustre 1-0 wins and a good away draw to Arsenal and things were looking OK but more some games in the performances and results deteriorated. Players lacking confidence, lacking fight. There is no reason the talent we have and for the prices and reputations of those we have recently acquired should we be so terrible at scoring or even looking dangerous, so susceptible to conceding and dropping points, and most of all utterly unable to fight back from a deficit (teams battling relegation have better ability to do that). Back to 3-4-3 and that was it his vision basically scrapped for the will to survive, performances barely improved bar the return of Studge and that was all she wrote.

Sacked but leaves without a bad word about the club (for now anyway). I think he accepted it. People might not have been sold by him and the way he supposedly talked too much but that's largely because he ended up with no trophies. It could have been so different if we just won in 13/14 but for a few fatal mistakes and poor refereeing against us over the season. He's a classy guy Brendan. We part ways amicably.
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 01:33:29 pm by penga »

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #51 on: October 6, 2015, 01:48:13 pm »
Overall it's been a fun 3 seasons. BR has probably learnt a lot in his time. He was thrown in at the deep end into a job where his every word was analysed and every decision queried. He probably knows now where things went wrong (maybe the wrong people around him and probably some bad buys).

I think he'll get better and who knows he may be back if his career takes off.

He did his best and loved the club. Unfortunately the club couldn't give him any more time which is understandable.

I wish him the very best and thank him for coming so close in 2013/1014. We scored 101 goals that season and were a delight to watch. Deep down there's still a good manager in there and experience will hone his skills.

Good luck Brendan......YNWA
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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #52 on: October 6, 2015, 01:52:05 pm »
But that's the thing with Klopp... he may have more to offer compared to Rodgers. But still he is awful lot about emotions and not the kind of sane football manager with the experience needed on the top level.

Then there is the handling with stars and english press...Even with Rafa, for not being an ex-star player had his problems with star players AND the press as well who kind of shows more respect to a big name than a young guy from abroad. Klopp IS a risky decision at this point, Ancelotti the man offering enough experience to put the squad in the right place and having the reputation for not getting lost when the going gets tough.

But from what we've seen so far from FSG,  they kind of like going against the obvious, reasonable..they kind of like the thunder, the noise coming with a decision which, at first sight, looks like THE next big thing coming. But there is no such thing, usually, you have to be extremely lucky to find someone like Rafa who does, at the same time, match with the club.

A different way though would be to go for a sane football decision. FSG should have burned their fingers enough already to stop the hyperbole and illusions of grandeur and think twice before appointing someone like Klopp.


Hello. Hope all is well. Could you let me know, very simplistically, 3 key attributes the new boss should have?

Just 3 please. Prioritise them if you can
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Offline lionel_messias

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #53 on: October 6, 2015, 02:02:43 pm »
Rafa and Ged went from zero to hero too, as they achieved immediate success.

Rafa and Ged came in and sorted out the defensive side of our game very quickly. Brendan didn't do that. Hadn't done it three years later. In that way he was trying to re-invent the entire sport. Obviously, he couldn't do it.
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #54 on: October 6, 2015, 02:05:46 pm »

Hello. Hope all is well. Could you let me know, very simplistically, 3 key attributes the new boss should have?

Just 3 please. Prioritise them if you can


Ok, roughly spoken..

Top football knowledge.

Best as an ex player and manager having experience in at least two of the top leagues in europe as I think this combination is needed at this club when dealing with star players, the press and for being able to attract those star players. This would also include to have substantial experience all through a lot of scenerios which can happen in football in terms of tactics and squad management. I simply think this is need as our squad is pretty unbalanced and very vulnerable whenever one or two key players are missing.
This would include f.e that this manager already managed a club through a crisis, is able to react to tactical requirements refering to the PL AND european football, is able to adjust tactical frameworks to an existing squad, knows how to react on the pitch when key players are out in a tactical way...I don't want to mention all those tactical basics Rodgers was missing but basically this is what I am asking for, PL wise, and european wise. MacAteer was often refering to the wholes and gaps in the way the team was set up and I don't want to see those fundamental tactical flaws ever again at this level.

Being able to judge talent.

Slightly rebuilds the squad in terms of technical standards towards european top level and tries to fill the gaps already existing in this squad when it comes to technically and tactically well educated and experienced players in every field of the game. Defense, Midfield, Attack. We only have Skrtel and Lucas around being the age required to carry a team and they have been bought by Rafa. Since then, it was either players bought for the future or simply the wrong ones. Take those two out and we usually get massive problems which to be seen. I think this to be a top priority, short term.

In house management.

Is able to deal with the politics within the club in way that he is able to ignore agents close to the club trying to get players signed while sticking 100% to the comitee and is able to convince them with his football knowledge and finding a compromise between long term and short term.


Finally, if we could have a manager who already won the CL as a player and manager, won four titles in four different leagues, I really don't know what we are waiting for.
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 02:43:57 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #55 on: October 6, 2015, 02:19:16 pm »
For two touch movement you need talent, big talent...

I've played two touch in training for years, I'm not a very good footballer either. Certainly won't be getting signed by City any time soon anyway :D
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #56 on: October 6, 2015, 02:22:10 pm »
I've played two touch in training for years, I'm not a very good footballer either. Certainly won't be getting signed by City any time soon anyway :D

I would think there was a slight difference in tempo and pace ;)
« Last Edit: October 6, 2015, 02:24:10 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. All the best Brendan.
« Reply #57 on: October 6, 2015, 02:59:11 pm »
the bit about working for Maureen always sat uneasily with me for truly he is a graceless twat. Mourinho makes Ferguson look like Cary Grant.

haha, great line, but it's a tricky line of thinking though. Football is full of bastards, and everyone is going to have worked with a couple of monsters along the line.  Mourinho worked for Bobby Robson, and Robson is widely considered to be one of the most decent people to have ever managed a club. Jose didn't catch decency from robson, and I never got the impression that Brendan caught psychopathy from Jose

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #58 on: October 6, 2015, 03:23:57 pm »
I'll tell you one thing - the new manager coming in isn't going to do too badly if he has anything going for himself

1) 60m of summer signings on the treatment table will be back soon
2) the captain will be back from injury soon
3) Only 1 (that I can think of) player in the squad over 30 years of age
4) 3 of our 5 toughest away games of the season out of the way
5) and still only 4 points off second

Makes you wonder


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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #59 on: October 6, 2015, 03:34:42 pm »
I'll tell you one thing - the new manager coming in isn't going to do too badly if he has anything going for himself

1) 60m of summer signings on the treatment table will be back soon
2) the captain will be back from injury soon
3) Only 1 (that I can think of) player in the squad over 30 years of age
4) 3 of our 5 toughest away games of the season out of the way
5) and still only 4 points off second

Makes you wonder



I think we have a better than decent squad. We have midfielders who like to press and a selection of strikers to match most around, and when our best striker is fully fit, there is only one forward better than him in the league (who's injury prone himself). IMHO a new dawn could be based on a new centre half, a defensive midfielder and possibly a goalie.
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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #60 on: October 6, 2015, 03:46:57 pm »
If we end up with Dortmund's coach and DoF, we'll have looked at what worked elsewhere, and imported the model in whole. Which is more logical than assuming from the outset that everyone else had got everything wrong, and that the newcomers from Boston will revolutionise the game with their fresh approach. I think FSG have well and truly lost that initial arrogance, and recognised that there is revolution enough in the game, but all of it is built on established wisdom, and that the freshest effective approaches are found abroad in Europe.

if they are completely abandoning their original model then yes there would be some sense in letting Klopp choose/bring in his own DoF. But if they believe in sticking to their original principles, don't forget they were apparently interested in Klopp in 2012, this would be another fudge. a DoF who is only brought in because of his ability to work with one particular manager is not going to be overly interested in ensuring continuity should that manager leave the club. the most likely scenario would be that the DoF would go when the manager does though its granted that this has not happened at Dortmund (so far).
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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #61 on: October 6, 2015, 03:51:32 pm »
I think we have a better than decent squad. We have midfielders who like to press and a selection of strikers to match most around, and when our best striker is fully fit, there is only one forward better than him in the league (who's injury prone himself). IMHO a new dawn could be based on a new centre half, a defensive midfielder and possibly a goalie.

This post is the problem in a nutshell
Yes our squad is decent.... until you compare it to any of the top 4 from last year.
If you want a new centre half, defensive midfielder and goalie at 'top 4' level you're talking about a lot of investment in the squad.
There's a great chance Klopp gets rthe best out of our squad but they'll always be 'holes' in it when you compare it to the 4 better financed squads
Whoever the head coach is that paradigm isn't changing any time soon

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #62 on: October 6, 2015, 03:52:05 pm »
At risk of repeating myself, but...

Drawing with Everton the final straw. In truth this has been coming. The speed of the decision would suggest someone else is already lined up. If not, this appears trigger happy. The timing is also cruel, with some very tough fixtures coming up. Perhaps with liverpool a mere 4 points back the feeling is a new face will have a good chance to chase the leaders.

So, how do we assess Rodgers tenure? He will not go down as the worst manager Liverpool have had, by a long shot. For one thing he was always respectful of the club and players, never making the club look foolish. Also, in terms of stability, three seasons in charge in which he had one very special season in the middle is no bad run for a manager, he can certainly walk away feeling he has given a decent account of himself.

However, decent just isn't enough at a club that is a srich and historied as Liverpool, he needed more. No silverware and an indifferent series of finishes in the league and Europe is just not good enough. You can be poor in one but not in both at the same time. This stemmed from his failure to identify high quality players to take the club forward. There were mitigating circumstances - a transfer committtee and the fading lustre of Liverpool FC to naem the key two - but ultimately he signed off on those players, if he wasn't happy he should have walked not been fired.

Ultimately I doubt few will harbour Rodgers any ill will, most will just feel underwhelmed and a little sad, while some will wonder what might have been. A good coach who just couldn't quite make the step up to top manager, perhaps his future will hold such a possibility. So good luck and thank you for that one amazing season.
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

Offline PanchDeBurca

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #63 on: October 6, 2015, 05:48:09 pm »
This post is the problem in a nutshell
Yes our squad is decent.... until you compare it to any of the top 4 from last year.
If you want a new centre half, defensive midfielder and goalie at 'top 4' level you're talking about a lot of investment in the squad.
There's a great chance Klopp gets rthe best out of our squad but they'll always be 'holes' in it when you compare it to the 4 better financed squads
Whoever the head coach is that paradigm isn't changing any time soon

The are holes in every squad, every squad, maybe bar Man city.  you don't need a "complete" squad to compete.  We only had about 15 decent players the year we finished second.  Because we are not in a great run of form its easy for the majority to run our players into the ground and complain about our recruitment etc etc.  Fact is if we were on a 10 game winning run, which we could just as easily be, then those very same players become world beaters in the eyes of many on here. 

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #64 on: October 6, 2015, 05:55:18 pm »
But that's the thing with Klopp... he may have more to offer compared to Rodgers. But still he is awful lot about emotions and not the kind of sane football manager with the experience needed on the top level.

Then there is the handling with stars and english press...Even with Rafa, for not being an ex-star player had his problems with star players AND the press as well who kind of shows more respect to a big name than a young guy from abroad. Klopp IS a risky decision at this point, Ancelotti the man offering enough experience to put the squad in the right place and having the reputation for not getting lost when the going gets tough.

But from what we've seen so far from FSG,  they kind of like going against the obvious, reasonable..they kind of like the thunder, the noise coming with a decision which, at first sight, looks like THE next big thing coming. But there is no such thing, usually, you have to be extremely lucky to find someone like Rafa who does, at the same time, match with the club.

A different way though would be to go for a sane football decision. FSG should have burned their fingers enough already to stop the hyperbole and illusions of grandeur and think twice before appointing someone like Klopp.

At every turn, we must dispel the myth that one person is going to turn around an institution that may have more members than the Catholic Church...   It will take thousands of contributions.   

Let's avoid mythologizing Klopp, it did not do our most recent gaffer any good, and the one before that was a slap in the face of myth.  We should keep it simple, passionate, and focus on the collective.   Klopp is not here to save or convert us, he is here to train our young men to get better.  That is all.
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We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Offline jamie_c

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #65 on: October 6, 2015, 06:07:35 pm »
You could argue that.

My point is that it was an unnecessary risk to appoint someone so fresh faced.
Despite Rodgers almost winning the league, and fucking hell it was some achievement! You could also clearly see that he was learning on the job; learning parts of the game that should be second nature to him at this stage. My view on Brendan, is that if he stayed at Swansea (or similar) for a further 2-3 years, he may have learned some of the basics before joining us. Then he'd be in a much better position to achieve sustainable success. There's no doubt he has his talents, but he has major limitations too (for now).

I don't think a DOF would have changed too much of the above. It merely would have made it easier to replace Brendan, which doesn't solve anything.



I just don't get comments like this, it was a heartbreaking end but that was our best season in 27 years, our other managers have typically had (relitively speaking) more resources and less competition but going in to the last few games it was in our hands.  That was delivered by Brendan, he was a fucking fantastic appointment and to be so patronising as to say he had not learnt the basics is a joke.

He made players better and he delivered incredible football.

He's been sacked so we can have a shiny new manager to get excited about and for people to complain about money wasted without ever actually having the sense to look at the big picture and understand where we are as a club.

Rinse, repeat and we'll be back here again in a few years wondering why nothing has changed.

Offline PanchDeBurca

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #66 on: October 6, 2015, 06:28:50 pm »
I just don't get comments like this, it was a heartbreaking end but that was our best season in 27 years, our other managers have typically had (relitively speaking) more resources and less competition but going in to the last few games it was in our hands.  That was delivered by Brendan, he was a fucking fantastic appointment and to be so patronising as to say he had not learnt the basics is a joke.

He made players better and he delivered incredible football.

He's been sacked so we can have a shiny new manager to get excited about and for people to complain about money wasted without ever actually having the sense to look at the big picture and understand where we are as a club.

Rinse, repeat and we'll be back here again in a few years wondering why nothing has changed.

Top post - agree wholeheartedly

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #67 on: October 6, 2015, 08:53:39 pm »
I just don't get comments like this, it was a heartbreaking end but that was our best season in 27 years, our other managers have typically had (relitively speaking) more resources and less competition but going in to the last few games it was in our hands.  That was delivered by Brendan, he was a fucking fantastic appointment and to be so patronising as to say he had not learnt the basics is a joke.

He made players better and he delivered incredible football.

He's been sacked so we can have a shiny new manager to get excited about and for people to complain about money wasted without ever actually having the sense to look at the big picture and understand where we are as a club.

Rinse, repeat and we'll be back here again in a few years wondering why nothing has changed.
You missed the point. It's about having experience to lead inexperience. Brendan was great I  many ways and indeed he did give us a fantastic season. However, he was clearly learning on the job and thus began to struggle. We should be avoiding problems like these as best we can.

This is not a slight on Brendan, I was right behind him for a long long time despite my reservations.

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #68 on: October 6, 2015, 09:30:21 pm »
I just don't get comments like this, it was a heartbreaking end but that was our best season in 27 years, our other managers have typically had (relitively speaking) more resources and less competition but going in to the last few games it was in our hands.  That was delivered by Brendan, he was a fucking fantastic appointment and to be so patronising as to say he had not learnt the basics is a joke.

Rinse, repeat and we'll be back here again in a few years wondering why nothing has changed.
That's not even close to the truth. Brendan has spent way, way more than any other LFC manager. Competition? The other top teams struggle to get through the group stage in CL, while Rafa faced ManU and Chelsea in their prime. Shortly after crushing us, ManU lost to PSV Eindhoven!

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #69 on: October 6, 2015, 09:44:09 pm »
Many good contributions above!

If I go back in time, I really liked Evans. I guess deep down I felt he was good, but not a great manager. Then came Houllier. At first, I thought he was the next great manager, but over time, I came to dislike him. I felt betrayed by him in the end. Then came Rafa. I remember I wanted Mourinho at the time. :P But Rafa was ace. I loved his structure and his approach. His team was 'complete' and it was a very sad day for me when he had to leave. Hodgson? He was never the right pick. Never. I probably respect him more than most, because of what he did (a couple of decades ago) in Sweden. But he wasn't the right pick. Not at the time, not for LFC and not after Rafa. Then? Kenny wasn't the right successor. I said it back then too. And then we got Rodgers. It was never gonna be easy for him, replacing Kenny and all.

Rodgers impressed me when he was with Swansea. He made them play good football on a small budget. Always a good sign. I wasn't overwhelmed when he signed. But the way Suarez improved under him impressed me. 13/14 was of course a joy. And then we crashed. Looking back now, it feels like Evans all over. Good football. Football you can enjoy. Football for the spectators. A good manager, but not a great one. Something was missing. Much like Evans. Defensive problems, but, when it worked, beautiful football and of course - great strikers.

I respect the approach and I respect Rodgers' ability to shape that SAS attack. We had the best striker duo in the league. One of the best ever seen in the league. It wasn't just a good duo, it was a great one. One that people will talk about 20 years from now. It really should have been enough to win a title or three. But you need a bit of luck to win a title. We did everything we could, but lacked a bit of luck. It wasn't our year and that's OK. What saddens me is how we fell apart after. How we went from 13/14 to 14/15. Everything we did was more or less wrong. The opposite of what you'd expect. And that's why we will soon have a new manager. We can't make mistakes like we did. Not that many.

Rodgers will know it. I just hope he learns from them. I hope he takes a bit of time to reflect and analyse. Wouldn't want him to take a new team straight away. If he can become a bit more cynical I reckon he can become a great manager one day. Time is on his side.


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Offline Penfold78

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #70 on: October 6, 2015, 09:58:02 pm »
When shall FSG meet again, in thunder, lightening or in rain? Let's hope they've got this one right. My instinct tells me this wasn't planned. Why give Rogers a summer to rebuild the back room staff and make more acquisitions but toss it all aside while the weather was still warm enough to wear shorts? I think they started to worry how long two top mangers would stay on the open market for and got fidgety. I realise RAWK openly declared it's dislike for Rogers a few weeks ago, I can't possible believe they take their soundings from us? A fool thinks himself to be wise but a wiseman knows himself to be a fool.

Have more than they know, speak less than you know. So the quote goes. Hmmm. He was a bit like a townie accidentally gatecrashing a country wedding wasn't he? Almost over acting the part he found himself playing. But teeth and suits aside I warmed to Rogers very early, having taken my welsh parents to see the play off final that would see Swansea reach the big time. What I warmed to was his philosophy, his intent on playing skilful, possession based attacking football. Being a hopeless romantic I desperately wanted to believe that we had in our possession a world class manager in the making and it was only a matter of time before his coaching would deliver the most sophisticated side we'd ever seen. Bar 87/88. I saw each little set back as evidence of the size of the mountain he was leading us up. It took me until the 6-1 defeat at Stoke to question Rogers but I am still happy to stick up for him because I (even now) want to believe that he is a genius in the making.

None of us really know him, but it seems he is a decent guy and I wish him the very best. We like to tell ourselves we are the best fans there are. If only that were half true. Remember how in 2009 a spokesperson for our leering fanbase on a Radio 5 606 roadshow declared "we need to get rid of the Spanish waiter"? Xenophobic, petulant and deeply divided across any axis you care to draw. That's our fanbase. Hell is empty, all the devils are here on RAWK. He gave us one amazing season of wonder, we gave him back two seasons of silence with the occasional boo. Well done lads. Brendan I apologise for them.

So let's see if Klopp is the messiah. The magic wand. I'd like to echo an early post on this thread. A manager or coach is one person in a much wider picture. They work with a group of players to make them better. They deal with the same day to day crap that we all have to deal with. But the way they deal with it is recorded minute by minute, twitter by twitter, to the point where we know how many pieces of loo paper they needed to clean their last shit. Klopp, Ancellotti, Mr Bean, whoever, they need us to acknowledge that there are one of a multiple number of factors at play.


 



 

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #71 on: October 6, 2015, 11:40:19 pm »
That's not even close to the truth. Brendan has spent way, way more than any other LFC manager. Competition? The other top teams struggle to get through the group stage in CL, while Rafa faced ManU and Chelsea in their prime. Shortly after crushing us, ManU lost to PSV Eindhoven!

Exactly. Taken as a whole, the waste of transfer money during his tenure was unacceptable, and he had the final say according to all reports.

He wouldn't work with a DOF. I have nothing against top managers having a big ego - it's probably a prerequisite - but when his teams consistently failed defensively, you have to question what that self-assurance was based on.

Add the poor defensive record to baffling about-faces re. personnel - his handling of centre-backs, the strange decisions surrounding goalkeeper, Lucas's treatment, I could go on, but it's pointless.

Yes he is a good coach. Of attacking play. But he sees himself as an old-style English-game manager. As such, and not withstanding that marvellous standout season, he was found out.

(And I haven't mentioned slum landlord).
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Offline scouse neapolitan

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #72 on: October 7, 2015, 12:14:16 am »
I hope that whoever is overseeing this new managerial reshuffle sits down with the new manager and spends time going through our club’s wonderful but often troubled history and not just what is expected of the team on the pitch. Anyone offered the job  needs to understand just how lucky they are being offered this once in a lifetime opportunity and they also need to take on board exactly what this club is all about. We might be lucky getting a top-drawer manager, but by God, they’re not half  lucky getting the chance to manage Liverpool. They need to understand that from the start.

Anyone taking the job needs to understand just what he’s taking on and should be made to study a dossier on the club pre and post Shankly, as well as being given a crash course on the culture of the city and the changes and influences that both have undergone in the last 75 years. To understand the city is to understand the club.

And not just, even if I’m sidetracking. I suggest that any new player to the club is also given the same dossier to study before they put their boots on for the first training session. It should be an imperative before anyone is given the honour of pulling on our glorious colours. I would suggest that this is also a must for any supporter who hasn’t been brought up on our traditions. Half an hour in the club shop is not a fast track to understanding Liverpool Football Club. (It’s not too late for the club owners to have a read themselves, but that’s another story!)
Occasionally, managerial applicants give the owners dossiers on who they are and what they’ve done . It’s high time that we gave a file to everyone who joins the club from outside . They need to understand what is our mind-set and just why they have a privileged yet difficult responsibility. This is not any other club and this is not any other city. It’s an Irish, Welsh Chinese Jamaican African mix of stubborn down-to-earth kindness, without forgetting the self-destructive head-case streak that comes out on occasion.

Whoever comes in needs to be told about the rebellious streak which runs through the heart of our city. They need to understand the dockers’ struggle in the city for social justice  in the 60s,   just why our city stood up to Thatcher in the 1980s and why the Dockers  again resumed their fight and stood their ground in the 90s. They may then understand why Robbie  Fowler displayed his famous t-shirt .They might understand also why the same bloke told the ref at Highbury that the penalty that he’d just given shouldn’t have stood.  It might also help them to understand why a city fought for Hillsborough justice when it knew from the start that things had been very different.

The new management team  should also be given pages about what was happening musically  in the city in the 60s and just what effect it had on the city when mixed with the club’s resurgence under Shanks. Fuckin’ hell. Try putting that cocktail in a bottle! Legal high  or what!!
There should be a chapter or two about the glorious evenings on the terraces of our famous stadium.  Other clubs will have had their own evenings, but I challenge any club in world football to have experienced the evenings of pure emotion  that have been experienced in Liverpool 4. Not Barcelona, Real, Napoli, or The Mancs. No other club in the world.  I personally reckon it’s the Celt in us. Others may have their own take, but whatever it is, it’s pure emotion . The atmosphere ‘s not there all the time, and a lot of the time, admittedly,  it’s piss poor, but something special can still be created when there’s something in the air. Thanks to the football Brendan Rodgers’ team was playing 18 months ago, the atmosphere and buzz  running through the city were truly spectacular.

Our new management team needs to have a word with Montse Benitez to understand why she hung around in our city when there were so many other  appealing places to live. Montse will tell them about the down-to-earth gritty generosity of a city which has suffered more than most but has mostly tried to look after others less fortunate than themselves. She brought her kids up as proud scousers as did Sir Bill, Sir Bob  and Sir Kenny. These were people who understood our culture and understood what our city and our club really mean. Mrs Sanchez might have preferred  North London but Montse wanted the Wirral.

I’d put a sound-track of our music in the dossier too. I start with the Kop singing the Beatles in the 60s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNboU_PbZMY     . I’d give them Johnny Cash’s Ring of Fire and then I’d finish it off with Pink Floyd and the Kop ‘s Fearless   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeyHPAdxuy0  .

It’s been on this site before, but it doesn’t matter. I certainly don’t apologise for putting on a song that heralds our glorious support  again. A lot of us also need reminding just who we are.

Taking over our club carries with it enormous responsibility. Only the very best candidates need apply .
Mr Klopp, Ancelotti  or other applicants please read this carefully. Are you up to the job?

WE ARE LIVERPOOL!

Offline jamie_c

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #73 on: October 7, 2015, 07:24:14 am »
That's not even close to the truth. Brendan has spent way, way more than any other LFC manager. Competition? The other top teams struggle to get through the group stage in CL, while Rafa faced ManU and Chelsea in their prime. Shortly after crushing us, ManU lost to PSV Eindhoven!

I was saying it in the context of the last 27 years, Souness / Evans etc were only outspent by Utd.  When you take into account inflation I'd say Rafa and Brendan were given similar support financially.  Rafa did not have to deal with Man City and we were an established top 4 club in wages ( there is a clear link between wages and the premier league winners for the last 20 years ).  Both had to spend the majority of their time shopping in the mid range hoping to create world class footballers rather than being able to buy them.

Rafa fell out of the top 4 while we were still in the top 4 in wages, Brendan was unable to achieve it last year but with the 5th biggest wage bill.

Brendan's achievement was staggering and from a league position better than any one else for 27 years.  As I said before we will now have a shiny new manager who may be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat and over deliver by getting us back challenging.  in the medium to long term he will not be able to sustain it and the support will turn on him exactly as they have done here.

I would rather have given this manager the opportunity to over achieve again rather than simply replace the manager in what will be an ongoing cycle.

Offline mercury

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #74 on: October 7, 2015, 08:12:09 am »
I was saying it in the context of the last 27 years, Souness / Evans etc were only outspent by Utd.  When you take into account inflation I'd say Rafa and Brendan were given similar support financially.  Rafa did not have to deal with Man City and we were an established top 4 club in wages ( there is a clear link between wages and the premier league winners for the last 20 years ).  Both had to spend the majority of their time shopping in the mid range hoping to create world class footballers rather than being able to buy them.

Rafa fell out of the top 4 while we were still in the top 4 in wages, Brendan was unable to achieve it last year but with the 5th biggest wage bill.

Brendan's achievement was staggering and from a league position better than any one else for 27 years.  As I said before we will now have a shiny new manager who may be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat and over deliver by getting us back challenging.  in the medium to long term he will not be able to sustain it and the support will turn on him exactly as they have done here.

I would rather have given this manager the opportunity to over achieve again rather than simply replace the manager in what will be an ongoing cycle.

If staggering achievement constitute of one season of 2nd in the league (good title run that, for sure), a wiped out in Europe and no trophy  or even a cup final whatsoever in 3 years of tenure, our standard and expectations are really falling  ;D






Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #75 on: October 7, 2015, 08:18:32 am »
That's not even close to the truth. Brendan has spent way, way more than any other LFC manager.

Have you heard of a thing called inflation?

Did you note how the TV deal inflated prices way beyond what they used to be?

I'm not arsed about defending Brendan's transfer record, but people who can't understand how the world changes infuriate me.

Yes, Brendan may have 'spent' more than previous managers - funnily enough it's because even average footballers cost fucking loads these days - look at other clubs - Everton spending 25 million quid on Lukaku. Everton. That Everton. With the wooden stadium. Spending £25 million quid. Stoke have spent a fortune, United can piss away 65m players after one season while we try and fit in a poor £20m centreback.

The transfer market has warped massively - the fact that Brendan Rodgers spent more than any previous coach is totally unsurprising for anyone with half a brain that can work out that, yes, footballers cost more these days. We bought Torres for £23million or whatever, that would now cost double, probably more. So I wonder why Brendan ended up spending more that Rafa? It's because the fucking players cost twice as much, every single one of them. If you can't comprehend that then you are fucking thick. Was it also a surprise that Rafa's net spend was more than Bill Shankly's?
« Last Edit: October 7, 2015, 08:20:03 am by SamAteTheRedAcid »
get thee to the library before the c*nts close it down

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Offline conman

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #76 on: October 7, 2015, 08:45:01 am »
Have you heard of a thing called inflation?

Did you note how the TV deal inflated prices way beyond what they used to be?

I'm not arsed about defending Brendan's transfer record, but people who can't understand how the world changes infuriate me.

Yes, Brendan may have 'spent' more than previous managers - funnily enough it's because even average footballers cost fucking loads these days - look at other clubs - Everton spending 25 million quid on Lukaku. Everton. That Everton. With the wooden stadium. Spending £25 million quid. Stoke have spent a fortune, United can piss away 65m players after one season while we try and fit in a poor £20m centreback.

The transfer market has warped massively - the fact that Brendan Rodgers spent more than any previous coach is totally unsurprising for anyone with half a brain that can work out that, yes, footballers cost more these days. We bought Torres for £23million or whatever, that would now cost double, probably more. So I wonder why Brendan ended up spending more that Rafa? It's because the fucking players cost twice as much, every single one of them. If you can't comprehend that then you are fucking thick. Was it also a surprise that Rafa's net spend was more than Bill Shankly's?
That's simply not true.

Net spend shouldn't be used in isolation as a comparison. You have to understand the context.

Unfortunately I don't have a breakdown of Ged & Evans transfer spends for comparison, but they were never blessed with lots of money. Sure Roy broke the bank to buy Stan Collymore, but that was the exception, not the rule.

Rafa though, he had to wheel and deal his way in the transfer market, which is something that Brendan hasn't had to do. He couldn't upgrade a position without selling on the existing player, he couldn't build a team without reducing the size of the squad. Right off the bat, he had to sell Owen & Murphy, before he could bring in Alonso & Garcia (and Nunez).

Brendan/TC/Kenny have pretty much had free reign, albiet with a cap of sorts. The squad we have built now have is arguably too large and certainly unbalanced, this was unheard of a few years ago. Just think for a second how much our second team costs, let alone the first!

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #77 on: October 7, 2015, 08:52:22 am »


He's been sacked so we can have a shiny new manager to get excited about

No he hasn't.

He's been sacked so that we can get someone better to do the job.

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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #78 on: October 7, 2015, 08:53:43 am »
That's simply not true.

Net spend shouldn't be used in isolation as a comparison. You have to understand the context.

Unfortunately I don't have a breakdown of Ged & Evans transfer spends for comparison, but they were never blessed with lots of money. Sure Roy broke the bank to buy Stan Collymore, but that was the exception, not the rule.

Rafa though, he had to wheel and deal his way in the transfer market, which is something that Brendan hasn't had to do. He couldn't upgrade a position without selling on the existing player, he couldn't build a team without reducing the size of the squad. Right off the bat, he had to sell Owen & Murphy, before he could bring in Alonso & Garcia (and Nunez).

Brendan/TC/Kenny have pretty much had free reign, albiet with a cap of sorts. The squad we have built now have is arguably too large and certainly unbalanced, this was unheard of a few years ago. Just think for a second how much our second team costs, let alone the first!


The argument the squad was too large was used as a stick to beat Benitez with many times, so I doubt ours is much more bloated now.

The point I am making is that 'Brendan spent 300m, more than any other Liverpool manager' is a bollocks argument - it's not hard to see how the market has become ridiculous over the last few years, and whoever was in charge would have been the biggest spending Liverpool manager, because the prices are higher. It's simple.

Yes comparitively we may have spent slightly more compared with our rivals than in the past - but that's not what I'm arguing about. It's the meaningless 300m bollocks.

Which also conveniently ignores the fact we recouped £125 million for 2 players! So if he spend loads more than our previous managers, he also made a lot more in enforced sales.
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Re: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.
« Reply #79 on: October 7, 2015, 09:01:06 am »
The argument the squad was too large was used as a stick to beat Benitez with many times, so I doubt ours is much more bloated now.

The point I am making is that 'Brendan spent 300m, more than any other Liverpool manager' is a bollocks argument - it's not hard to see how the market has become ridiculous over the last few years, and whoever was in charge would have been the biggest spending Liverpool manager, because the prices are higher. It's simple.

Yes comparitively we may have spent slightly more compared with our rivals than in the past - but that's not what I'm arguing about. It's the meaningless 300m bollocks.

Which also conveniently ignores the fact we recouped £125 million for 2 players! So if he spend loads more than our previous managers, he also made a lot more in enforced sales.
Benitez initially wanted to build a large squad, two players competing for every position. However, by the time we had our title push, the squad was thin and ravaged.

Ofcourse Brendan will have spent more than any other manager, if people are to compare transfer spend only, due to inflation as you rightly say. That doesn't deflect from the fact that FSG opened the coffers a lot more than any previous manager that I can think of.

To your last point, it was great to see us show some bollocks and demand large fees for the sales of Suarez & Sterling. Probably the only other time we did that was with the Alonso sale.