Topic: Train Fares

[Snail]

Fuck the Tories and the train companies, not the RMT - they are trying to prevent the single manning of trains. It is not safe to have trains without a guard, guards take care of the operational safety and also passenger safety. 51% of guards have prevented or deterred sexual assaults on trains for example.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/campaigns/rail/keep-your-guard-guarantee-northern-rail/

Well said.

[AndyMuller]

The guards in Central do fuck all though. Just stand around thinking they are bizzies talking to each other and stopping people who have had a few bevvies from getting home by saying they are bladdered and can’t get on the train.

Happened a few times to me and my girlfriend, divvies.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

And state owned I might add.

run as a listed company who’s shares are owned by the government, so a different model to how the uk railways were run

[west_london_red]

run as a listed company who’s shares are owned by the government, so a different model to how the uk railways were run

It’s still owned by the state and doesn’t pay any dividends while receiving subsidies at the same time unlike our rail franchise model (something which seems particularly ludicrous)

[Skeeve]

Fuck the Tories and the train companies, not the RMT - they are trying to prevent the single manning of trains. It is not safe to have trains without a guard, guards take care of the operational safety and also passenger safety. 51% of guards have prevented or deterred sexual assaults on trains for example.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/campaigns/rail/keep-your-guard-guarantee-northern-rail/

Sorry, just because they do some good shouldn't excuse them from a fuck the rmt even if it should be smaller than the fuck the tories and fuck the train companies, the whole rail service in the uk is a massive fuck you to us poor bastards that have to pay to use the thing.

[Skeeve]

It’s still owned by the state and doesn’t pay any dividends while receiving subsidies at the same time unlike our rail franchise model (something which seems particularly ludicrous)

Similar setups in france and germany too isn't it with their only real way of making profits is when they buy up uk rail companies. 

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Similar setups in france and germany too isn't it with their only real way of making profits is when they buy up uk rail companies. 

doesnt the french one has a ridiculously good pension and benefits scheme as well which costs the taxpayer a wedge, something like you can retire on full salary in your 50s and still get free travel across the country?

[So… Howard Philips]

doesnt the french one has a ridiculously good pension and benefits scheme as well which costs the taxpayer a wedge, something like you can retire on full salary in your 50s and still get free travel across the country?

The French system is good but not particularly cheap but rendered unreliable due to wildcat strikes - grieve sur la tas. Some strikes are planned, which at least gives you some options, others you can travel to a local station and, if you are lucky, there will be a handwritten notice telling you there is a strike and you can be stuck.

[PaulF]

to us poor bastards that have to pay to use the thing.

Who else should pay for it?

[Wabaloolah]

If I have to catch a train to London at peak time, a return is around £220! An off-peak fair is £65. There really is no justification for such a difference in the price of a ticket.

I am lucky and my company pays, some people have no choice. An annual season ticket for the same journey is around £12k

It's profiteering, pure and simple

[PaulF]

If I have to catch a train to London at peak time, a return is around £220! An off-peak fair is £65. There really is no justification for such a difference in the price of a ticket.

I am lucky and my company pays, some people have no choice. An annual season ticket for the same journey is around £12k

It's profiteering, pure and simple

Is it the case for you that the train fare costs around 50p a mile?  I've found my tickets to London often work out about that much. Surprisingly close to the tax deductible amount for mileage.

[Skeeve]

Who else should pay for it?

That was intended as emphasis on who should be the priority for the service, not the unions, rail companies nor the government.

There is no real evidence that delivering a competent (not even expecting great) service for a fair price comes into any of the thinking with these people, you only have to look at the number of times they look to spread out failures across the late and cancelled stats by dropping trains when they get late enough.

[gazzalfc]

That time of year again where fares go up. 2.7% rise this time around

At least there is some good news in that the process to remove/change the Northern rail franchise has begun. I'm sure Northern/Arriva will blame the RMT for their nasty strikes (because customers dont need safety critical guards on their trains) and National rail for having the gall to changing to electrified tracks and bring the infrastructure into the 21st century....

[west_london_red]

That time of year again where fares go up. 2.7% rise this time around

At least there is some good news in that the process to remove/change the Northern rail franchise has begun. I'm sure Northern/Arriva will blame the RMT for their nasty strikes (because customers dont need safety critical guards on their trains) and National rail for having the gall to changing to electrified tracks and bring the infrastructure into the 21st century....

Arriva are on their final warning I believe, I don’t think notice has been served yet nor would I hold my breath that it will be. To actually terminate would be tantamount to admitting that Labour have been right in calling for nationalisation.

[AndyMuller]

Robbing bastards. No improvement to the service in so many years yet we have to pay more as each year goes by. The majority of the staff at Merseyrail are moody c*nts aswell.

[rob1966]

They will continue to take the piss out of you because you let them and until passengers hurt them, they will keep on at it.

I've said this to a couple of friends now who use the train, its about time you all organised mass bunking days and started doing everything you can to affect their incomes. Raid the depots and set the rolling stock on fire. Be like the French

I've used an overground train three or four times in the last 15 years and its not something I want to repeat, in future I will use the car. We did one into Manchester, once into Limey and once from London to Colchester, knackered old shit bin diesels, would have looked knackered in the 70's. No way would I accept paying through the nose to be rammed into one of those carriages twice a day to get to/from work.

[AndyMuller]

They will continue to take the piss out of you because you let them and until passengers hurt them, they will keep on at it.

I've said this to a couple of friends now who use the train, its about time you all organised mass bunking days and started doing everything you can to affect their incomes. Raid the depots and set the rolling stock on fire. Be like the French

I've used an overground train three or four times in the last 15 years and its not something I want to repeat, in future I will use the car. We did one into Manchester, once into Limey and once from London to Colchester, knackered old shit bin diesels, would have looked knackered in the 70's. No way would I accept paying through the nose to be rammed into one of those carriages twice a day to get to/from work.

I agree mate. I’m half tempted to use the bus instead because of it and I hate the bus.

[SP]

My train service is so shit, the company has cancelled the fare increases.  Checking to see if the train will be more than 15 minutes late is the most exciting part of my commute. When you get into London 14 minutes late, you know it’s a bad day...

[west_london_red]

They will continue to take the piss out of you because you let them and until passengers hurt them, they will keep on at it.

I've said this to a couple of friends now who use the train, its about time you all organised mass bunking days and started doing everything you can to affect their incomes. Raid the depots and set the rolling stock on fire. Be like the French

I've used an overground train three or four times in the last 15 years and its not something I want to repeat, in future I will use the car. We did one into Manchester, once into Limey and once from London to Colchester, knackered old shit bin diesels, would have looked knackered in the 70's. No way would I accept paying through the nose to be rammed into one of those carriages twice a day to get to/from work.

You have to have the option to use something other then the train, not all of us do - personally driving to work would cost even more then the train due to the cost of parking in London. Also, most commuters will have bought a season ticket, so a boycott doesn’t really make any difference to their income, the train company already have our money. And as pissing off as it is, I’m not going to fucking prison over it by setting shit on fire.

[ScottishKopite]

As a teenager in the 90s I also had it down to an art form, it was dead easy then. And in those days a supersaver that would get me from Formby to central back all day  was just 1.50, whenever I go back and buy a ticket it nearly gives me a heart attack

I have done it a few times. I used to travel by bus to work then get train home I used to have a card what was cancelled and use it on the train what would be declined if I got caught by time the ticket man would come I was close to the station. I would say id get one then bugger off. got away with it for weeks until the cottoned on and gave me paperwork to fill out on the train and told me transport police would be waiting to take me off the train. I got off the train and there was police cars in car park Heart was racing they were not for me but for a car what was broken into. I travelled by bus until I got my car .

or get to barrier wait till someone puts ticket in and get right behind them and out the other end 

[west_london_red]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/07/south-western-railway-may-be-nationalised-after-firm-loses-137m?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Lee1-6Liv]

They will continue to take the piss out of you because you let them and until passengers hurt them, they will keep on at it.

I've said this to a couple of friends now who use the train, its about time you all organised mass bunking days and started doing everything you can to affect their incomes. Raid the depots and set the rolling stock on fire. Be like the French

I've used an overground train three or four times in the last 15 years and its not something I want to repeat, in future I will use the car. We did one into Manchester, once into Limey and once from London to Colchester, knackered old shit bin diesels, would have looked knackered in the 70's. No way would I accept paying through the nose to be rammed into one of those carriages twice a day to get to/from work.

Most places now you need a ticket to get through barriers to get to the platform.

[ScottishKopite]

I used to have to get train into Edinburgh city centre for work couple years ago cost me £10 return for a 20 minute journey some days trains with 6 carriages would arrive then days when there would be 2 it was carnage. I mind coming home on night after quitting my job the train was so packed the ticket lady asked if I could open the bathroom door and for folk to stand in there to allow a couple other folk on the train. I had earphones in never heard the announcement and the train never stopped at any station until its last destination what was another 20minutes past my stop. then on the other train on way back cu*t had a cheek to try charge me again.

I rather sit In traffic than pay for trains.

[Jiminy Cricket]

It had been many years since I took a train in the UK (and a decades since taking one from London). Then, early last year, I was on the train out of London with my (American) wife, weekday, rush hour. I was surprised by just how bad it was, my wife was rather shocked. I was a;so rather irked to learn that our 'seat reservations' counted for fuck all.

[Wabaloolah]

It had been many years since I took a train in the UK (and a decades since taking one from London). Then, early last year, I was on the train out of London with my (American) wife, weekday, rush hour. I was surprised by just how bad it was, my wife was rather shocked. I was a;so rather irked to learn that our 'seat reservations' counted for fuck all.

I've moved people when they've been sat in my reserved seat, although in rush hour out of London very many of the reserved seats will not be used by the intended recipient because they have either sat elsewhere in non reserved seats or they've caught a different train.

If nobody claims the seat then anyone has every right to sit there. Personally I've never failed to get a seat on a train out of London, heading West

[Wabaloolah]

Is it the case for you that the train fare costs around 50p a mile?  I've found my tickets to London often work out about that much. Surprisingly close to the tax deductible amount for mileage.

it's more like £1.50 per mile

[Nobby Reserve]

Since privatisation, executive pay for the TOCs has boomed, with several now receiving 7-figures packages, and over 100 getting over £400k/year.

In the 6 years to 2019, over £1bn in dividends was paid to shareholders of the various TOCs.

All that money leeched out of the system to feed greedy, rich bastards.

It's a gravy train (pardon the pun), subsidised with taxpayer money.

Nationalise it, centralise control and streamline the senior management. Aim for a uniform level of service and simplified, universal pricing across the whole UK.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I've moved people when they've been sat in my reserved seat, although in rush hour out of London very many of the reserved seats will not be used by the intended recipient because they have either sat elsewhere in non reserved seats or they've caught a different train.

If nobody claims the seat then anyone has every right to sit there. Personally I've never failed to get a seat on a train out of London, heading West

Nope. It wasn't ticketed' as reserved (but I had the reservation stubs), the persons there were not moving, and even a ticket inspector indicated that reservations did not count during rush hour.

[Red-Soldier]

Since privatisation, executive pay for the TOCs has boomed, with several now receiving 7-figures packages, and over 100 getting over £400k/year.

In the 6 years to 2019, over £1bn in dividends was paid to shareholders of the various TOCs.

All that money leeched out of the system to feed greedy, rich bastards.

It's a gravy train (pardon the pun), subsidised with taxpayer money.

Nationalise it, centralise control and streamline the senior management. Aim for a uniform level of service and simplified, universal pricing across the whole UK.

You sound like a Marxist to me 

[PaulF]

The only valid argument I can see against nationalisation , is why should so many pay for the priviledge of so few? I know this is how taxation works in general but the trains are heavily commuter centric. And London I imagine dwarfs it.  Be interesting to see if London salaries fell rapidly following nationalisation and if this would be a good thing .

[oldfordie]

The only valid argument I can see against nationalisation , is why should so many pay for the priviledge of so few? I know this is how taxation works in general but the trains are heavily commuter centric. And London I imagine dwarfs it.  Be interesting to see if London salaries fell rapidly following nationalisation and if this would be a good thing .

Ive always thought the Tories especially under Thatcher wanted to denationalize utilities etc so they wouldn't be held responsible for how they perform. it's probably worked as well, everyone points the finger at the bosses running the de-nationalized companies rather than the Tories. thats not to say I disagree, these people are raking in a fortune just raising prices rather than running the business efficiently.
Railways and utilities should be re nationalized but there will be a lot of criticism by the Tories and the public whenever things go wrong.

[Elmo!]

The only valid argument I can see against nationalisation , is why should so many pay for the priviledge of so few? I know this is how taxation works in general but the trains are heavily commuter centric. And London I imagine dwarfs it.  Be interesting to see if London salaries fell rapidly following nationalisation and if this would be a good thing .

Yeah from a selfish point of view trains are of fuck all use to me bar the 2 or 3 times a year I go to Glasgow or Edinburgh. We have 2 train lines here - one south to Dundee and one North to Inverness.

But despite that I still support nationalisation.

[Nobby Reserve]

The only valid argument I can see against nationalisation , is why should so many pay for the priviledge of so few? I know this is how taxation works in general but the trains are heavily commuter centric. And London I imagine dwarfs it.  Be interesting to see if London salaries fell rapidly following nationalisation and if this would be a good thing .

We subsidise them now, to the tune of £billions

At least under a nationalised service, there wouldn't be a drain of money out of the service and into the pockets of an army of overpaid executives and parasitic shareholders (as often as not, overseas companies). That saved money could be used for improving the service, cutting the taxpayer subsidy, or reducing fares.

[gazzalfc]

Arriva Rail North stripped of their franchise of Northern rail as of 1st March

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51298820

[Zeb]

Arriva Rail North stripped of their franchise of Northern rail as of 1st March

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51298820

ASLEF are right to flag up that not a whole lot is going to change while companies are trying to squeeze a gallon into a pint pot. Just for the Manchester area, and the knock on impact it has across the region, needs the new platforms at Piccadilly building plus the Oxford Road platform extension. Along with what needs doing between Manchester and Liverpool, that was £300m's worth of work when costed a decade ago and obviously isn't something which will happen overnight even if the Tories finally get round to stumping up just do that.

[gazzalfc]

Oh I don't see anything changing any time soon. All the staff will be retained to the same contracts and the rolling stock will be the same. Ticket prices obviously wont change.

The staff will still be under the highly unionised structure (which is no bad thing) with the same rota system of relying on drivers and conductors to sort out their shifts.

What I hope will change is to a more reliable timetable that can relied upon rather than the 'lack of staff' or 'train fault' excuses.

[PaulF]

We subsidise them now, to the tune of £billions

At least under a nationalised service, there wouldn't be a drain of money out of the service and into the pockets of an army of overpaid executives and parasitic shareholders (as often as not, overseas companies). That saved money could be used for improving the service, cutting the taxpayer subsidy, or reducing fares.

I'm not sure that there wouldn't be overpaid executives of it were government owned. No evidence, gut feel.

[TepidT2O]

I'm not sure that there wouldn't be overpaid executives of it were government owned. No evidence, gut feel.

It’s nonsense. It would make no difference to rail prices.

You really think executives of major companies will get paid significantly less because they are state owned?  I’d very much doubt it

[stevo7]

The three lads at my local station are sound and have been there over 15 years. Hope they are sorted.
Also look Live departures before leaving the house, one in three trains are late.

Monday got a saveaway - train into Lime St. 17 up to Anfield, picked up tickets, 26 back to Princes. then a 61 up from the Vale. Not bad for £4.20

[AlphaDelta]

I was astounded by the price Virgin used to charge to upgrade to first class between Liverpool and Euston, it was daylight robbery.

Granted of a morning you would get a cooked breakfast, but other than that you would get a pitiful bag of crisps and sarnie, then you were limited to two bottles of beer (weekdays only)