Author Topic: Brexit - the final chapters (***)  (Read 41361 times)

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,356
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #200 on: August 6, 2018, 10:20:11 pm »
it was stupidity of the highest order, Watson rightly brings up how this stench could kill the party electorally and those stupid fucks call for his sacking. A split cannot come soon enough, hopefully in time to stop the madness

Fucking hell.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Watsonresign&src=hash

What the fuck is going on? Any chance these c*nts could tweet #StopBrexit and do something useful rather than justifying antisemitism and fighting Blairites.

This isn't an attack on Corbyn - he's an irrelevance now. This is a problem with the Labour 'base' and I use that term deliberately. The politics might be diametrically opposite but the behaviour of the true-believers following Trump and Corbyn (and Frottage, and Johnson and Rees-Mogg) is just as destructive.

*edit: This pretty much sums up the Labour Party now:

« Last Edit: August 6, 2018, 10:21:51 pm by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline So… Howard Philips

  • Penile Toupé Extender. Notoriously work-shy, copper-bottomed pervert.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,146
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #201 on: August 6, 2018, 10:30:01 pm »
Fucking hell.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Watsonresign&src=hash

What the fuck is going on? Any chance these c*nts could tweet #StopBrexit and do something useful rather than justifying antisemitism and fighting Blairites.

This isn't an attack on Corbyn - he's an irrelevance now. This is a problem with the Labour 'base' and I use that term deliberately. The politics might be diametrically opposite but the behaviour of the true-believers following Trump and Corbyn (and Frottage, and Johnson and Rees-Mogg) is just as destructive.

*edit: This pretty much sums up the Labour Party now:



Some of that hysterical bile is what you would expect at the next Brick all you can eat buffet the next time United are in town.

I paged down until I caught the tweet comparing Watson to Lavrenti Beria.

Hysterical hyperbole and utter rubbish.

Disagree with Watson by all means but to compare him to a Stalinist mass murderer defies description. I thank each and every god that may or may not exist that I do not know any of these people.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #202 on: August 6, 2018, 10:39:14 pm »
Away from the Trots-Tankies-Greens forming a circular firing squad, May's party management problems also seem to be growing.

Quote
According to private messages and correspondence shared with BuzzFeed News, and interviews with multiple party activists, May’s attempt to reconcile the Eurosceptics’ desire for a decisive split with Brussels’ dictates has turned a significant segment of the Conservative base – the army of loyal volunteers the Tories depends on to keep the blue flame alive around the country – strongly against her.

These conversations suggest May’s change of strategy has caused a rupture with the party’s Brexit-supporting grassroots so deep that she may never be able to regain their trust, let alone convince them by the autumn to rally behind her Chequers proposals. The prospect of May getting a withdrawal deal and continuing as leader now appear to be in grave jeopardy.

Far from subsiding now that Westminster is on its summer break, the hostility to May’s change of approach is growing, the activists say. Some believe her departure before March – Thexit, as some are calling it – is essential to salvage Brexit, and they’re turning to Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson as the alternative.

Support for the former foreign secretary, who resigned from cabinet last month in protest at Chequers, has surged in the last few weeks. Johnson now appears to have a solid base among Tory members which could propel him to the party leadership and 10 Downing Street.

To the activists, May is so tarnished she can’t recover. As they see it, they gave her their loyalty two years ago, even though she was a remainer, and stayed loyal when she blew the party’s majority last year because they believed she would deliver Brexit on the terms they wanted. Having trusted her, they believe she’s capitulated to Brussels and crushed their dreams of taking back control.

“The betrayal is just off the scale,” one said.

Another added: “She has lied to us and taken us for fools.”

Listen to the activists talk about their leader now and the contempt is startling. She’s weak, they say. Incompetent. Hopeless. “Worse than Gordon Brown.”

“It’s almost a case for most Brexiteers now of anyone but May,” Peter Thompson, a businessman and Conservative activist who is also prolific on Twitter, told BuzzFeed News.

Quote
The activists say they’ve been taken for granted by their leaders. Downing Street and CCHQ appear not to have anticipated such an angry response. “They seem to have assumed that everybody would row in behind it,” Mark Wallace, executive editor of Conservative Home, told BuzzFeed News. “They belatedly realised that they had judged that wrong.”

To quell the backlash, senior figures including May, party chairman Brandon Lewis, Downing Street chief of staff Gavin Barwell and chief whip Julian Smith have been wooing regional party officials, hosting conference calls and a meeting in Downing Street for association chairs. May and Lewis have emailed party members urging them to support her. In the next several weeks, they’ll try to make the case that a pragmatic Chequers deal is better than no deal – and that opposing it would cause political chaos that brings Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour to power or Brexit never happening at all.

But the critics say the members aren’t going to fold. For one thing, they don’t buy the argument that challenging May would hasten a Corbyn government. They think it will hasten an electoral defeat. “CHEQUERSMEANSCORBYN” has been a widely-used hashtag.

The activists point to opinion polls conducted since the Chequers meeting which show the Conservatives now lagging several points behind Labour, having held a narrow lead in most polls for several months before the Chequers. They think Chequers is so electorally toxic that backing it will lead to a catastrophe at the ballot box. A soft Brexit, they fear, would be seen by many Leave voters as an unforgivable betrayal of the referendum result. Those voters would abandon the Conservatives for Ukip, or simply not vote at all, handing the next election to Labour.

Buzzfeed

“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline The Gulleysucker

  • RAWK's very own spinached up Popeye. Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Remembers
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,496
  • An Indolent Sybarite
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #203 on: August 6, 2018, 11:34:28 pm »
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,421
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #204 on: August 6, 2018, 11:35:21 pm »
Away from the Trots-Tankies-Greens forming a circular firing squad, May's party management problems also seem to be growing.

Buzzfeed

“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here.”
So May believes the countries economy will tank etc etc unless we don't get a deal but the party fear a backlash from voters, the argument by Tory MPs is it's more important to protect this Tory government than the countries future. I hope Labour are taking all this in?
The Tories are worried about the rise of UKIP, bad news for the country but good news for Labour as it will split the Tory vote far more than Labour.  I think Johnsons racist remarks about Muslims Burkas and letter boxes is aimed at the nasty right Tories who are thinking of going back to UKIP.
The Tories are in survival mode and they think a hard Brexit will save them, big mistake but will Labour step in and turn the situation upside down by coming out and calling for another referendum to save the country from disaster.  the PM has now lost control, the PM knows we are heading for a disaster but her MPs say the party comes first not the country so it has to be a hard Brexit to keep the hard right happy.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2018, 12:53:13 am by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

  • FUCK THE POLICE - NWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #205 on: August 6, 2018, 11:48:03 pm »
This is regrettably pretty spot on.
only really missing the dodgy peerage given but excellent

Fucking hell.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Watsonresign&src=hash

What the fuck is going on? Any chance these c*nts could tweet #StopBrexit and do something useful rather than justifying antisemitism and fighting Blairites.

This isn't an attack on Corbyn - he's an irrelevance now. This is a problem with the Labour 'base' and I use that term deliberately. The politics might be diametrically opposite but the behaviour of the true-believers following Trump and Corbyn (and Frottage, and Johnson and Rees-Mogg) is just as destructive.

*edit: This pretty much sums up the Labour Party now:


dont really know if it’s the base but definitely their louder supporters who lack any self awareness who turn away those who didn’t vote them last time (but at least keeps nasty Tory voters away), had a pint with two mates at the weekend who last year loved the magic grandpa but now more quietly they think he’s utter shite

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

  • FUCK THE POLICE - NWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #206 on: August 6, 2018, 11:53:13 pm »
Catching up on newsnight, please stop getting Aaron Bastani on, I know they like utter wankers from both extremes but just fuck that off

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,356
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #207 on: August 7, 2018, 12:04:05 am »
Catching up on newsnight, please stop getting Aaron Bastani on, I know they like utter wankers from both extremes but just fuck that off

But he is the modern Labour Party.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,088
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #208 on: August 7, 2018, 12:52:17 am »
But he is the modern Labour Party.
A bunch of cranks, conspiracy theorists, Jew haters and islamists ....

(Hey a huge caveat.... large numbers of good and humble people too..)

The Labour Party is done for some years...
« Last Edit: August 7, 2018, 02:57:50 am by Tepid T₂O »
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Online Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,809
  • Trada
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #209 on: August 7, 2018, 02:39:42 am »
First time ive checked this thread for a while and seeing this thread seems to be about Labour. its nothing new we have wanted Watson replaced for 2 years they know it ends for them at the party conference.

#resignwatson

Like I said on Twitter.

Remember the good old days before Jeremy Corbyn was antisemitic and the first coup was just about him being a good bloke but he was unelectable how far the Blairites have fallen since then as they get more desperate.

And idiots everywhere eat it up apart from the people that matter.

And good to hear there has been a surge in membership in the last week because of the media bias and the reason the today program lost 800,000 viewers with most said it was because of bias or they have an hidden agenda.

The membership even turned against Momentum when they said they were no longer backing Pete for the NEC a huge backlash and strangely apart from that one tweet they never mentioned it again not even in a official email about it. I think it shook them a bit that people didnt just follow them blindly and people know what they need to take Labour forward and everyone told them they were still voting for him even local branches of Momentum defied the vote and told people to still vote for him.

The Labour grassroots now have become an unstoppable machine now and I glad to be a part of it.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2018, 03:09:01 am by Trada »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,088
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #210 on: August 7, 2018, 02:57:08 am »
Resign Watson trending on twitter scared the living crap out of me I must say

;D
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,356
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #211 on: August 7, 2018, 05:06:06 am »
First time ive checked this thread for a while and seeing this thread seems to be about Labour. its nothing new we have wanted Watson replaced for 2 years they know it ends for them at the party conference.

#resignwatson

Like I said on Twitter.

Remember the good old days before Jeremy Corbyn was antisemitic and the first coup was just about him being a good bloke but he was unelectable how far the Blairites have fallen since then as they get more desperate.

And idiots everywhere eat it up apart from the people that matter.

And good to hear there has been a surge in membership in the last week because of the media bias and the reason the today program lost 800,000 viewers with most said it was because of bias or they have an hidden agenda.

The membership even turned against Momentum when they said they were no longer backing Pete for the NEC a huge backlash and strangely apart from that one tweet they never mentioned it again not even in a official email about it. I think it shook them a bit that people didnt just follow them blindly and people know what they need to take Labour forward and everyone told them they were still voting for him even local branches of Momentum defied the vote and told people to still vote for him.

The Labour grassroots now have become an unstoppable machine now and I glad to be a part of it.

Any chance the ‘unstoppable machine’ could focus on Brexit Dave?

I’m sure what happens to ‘Pete’ is really important but isn’t the future of the country more important?

What exactly is the membership’s view on leaving the EU?  I know what they think about #weareCorbyn, or #WatsonResign and #JC9. What’s the membership’s hashtag of choice for Brexit?
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Team Sleep

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,040
  • A walking surplus.
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #212 on: August 7, 2018, 06:26:13 am »
I am fed up with all these liberal elite remoaners spreading fear about a no deal Brexit.

Quote
UK would run out of food a year from now with no-deal Brexit, NFU warns

Farmers’ union says supply would dry up by August 2019 if Britain had to be self-sufficient

...

Minette Batters, the NFU president, urged the government to put food security at the top of the political agenda after the prospect of a no-deal Brexit was talked up this week.

“The UK farming sector has the potential to be one of the most impacted sectors from a bad Brexit – a frictionless free trade deal with the EU and access to a reliable and competent workforce for farm businesses is critical to the future of the sector,” she said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,088
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #213 on: August 7, 2018, 06:28:02 am »
When the NFU say that, you know we’re in trouble...

They are very conservative (small c)
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline cowtownred

  • We're only making plans for Nigel, We only want what's best for him, We're only making plans for Nigel, Nigel just needs a helping hand
  • RAWK Remembers
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,379
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #214 on: August 7, 2018, 07:22:09 am »
But didn't the majority of farmers want to leave?

Certainly did here in NI. After all they will continue to get their subsidy top-ups (just not from the EU, but from their Tory/DUP grandees), and life will be marvellous! They won't have to adhere to standards, can grow whatever they like without pesky Eurocrats telling them no, and will be able to sell land for building accelerated through without European intervention.

Utopia.

Offline SlowRap

  • SlowCrapAllOverTheBoards. No longer appealing! Apparently not a bastard. But no denial of being sarcastic and having no clue. Interesting. Fist pumps all the way down the stairs.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,966
  • Let freedom reign
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #215 on: August 7, 2018, 08:21:13 am »
Any chance the ‘unstoppable machine’ could focus on Brexit Dave?

I’m sure what happens to ‘Pete’ is really important but isn’t the future of the country more important?

What exactly is the membership’s view on leaving the EU?  I know what they think about #weareCorbyn, or #WatsonResign and #JC9. What’s the membership’s hashtag of choice for Brexit?
You realise the campaign to get rid of members that are undermining the leader of the labour party is so that we can concentrate on the important stuff without having to be distracted by nonsense spread by Blairites. You're venting at the wrong people, had we all got behind Corbyn we could have concentrated on getting a remain policy into the manifesto
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

Offline So… Howard Philips

  • Penile Toupé Extender. Notoriously work-shy, copper-bottomed pervert.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,146
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #216 on: August 7, 2018, 08:21:33 am »
Any chance the ‘unstoppable machine’ could focus on Brexit Dave?

I’m sure what happens to ‘Pete’ is really important but isn’t the future of the country more important?

What exactly is the membership’s view on leaving the EU?  I know what they think about #weareCorbyn, or #WatsonResign and #JC9. What’s the membership’s hashtag of choice for Brexit?

As an increasingly floating voter, without any knowledge of the internal divisions in the Labour Party, I assume 'Pete' is the gobby bloke who compared other Labour Party members to Trump Fanatics?

The unstoppable machine looks like it may be as unstoppable as the Children's Crusade. That ended well.

Online filopastry

  • seldom posts but often delivers
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,780
  • Let me tell you a story.........
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #217 on: August 7, 2018, 10:19:41 am »
First time ive checked this thread for a while and seeing this thread seems to be about Labour. its nothing new we have wanted Watson replaced for 2 years they know it ends for them at the party conference.

#resignwatson

Like I said on Twitter.

Remember the good old days before Jeremy Corbyn was antisemitic and the first coup was just about him being a good bloke but he was unelectable how far the Blairites have fallen since then as they get more desperate.

And idiots everywhere eat it up apart from the people that matter.

And good to hear there has been a surge in membership in the last week because of the media bias and the reason the today program lost 800,000 viewers with most said it was because of bias or they have an hidden agenda.

The membership even turned against Momentum when they said they were no longer backing Pete for the NEC a huge backlash and strangely apart from that one tweet they never mentioned it again not even in a official email about it. I think it shook them a bit that people didnt just follow them blindly and people know what they need to take Labour forward and everyone told them they were still voting for him even local branches of Momentum defied the vote and told people to still vote for him.

The Labour grassroots now have become an unstoppable machine now and I glad to be a part of it.

I thought the main problem with perceived bias on the Today programme, was because Humphries doesn't hide his Brexit sympathies, hardly an anti-Labour stance at present

Offline ShakaHislop

  • Shocktrooper of the Vinny Cable Nasties
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,790
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #218 on: August 7, 2018, 10:44:06 am »
Brexit: Police commissioners concern over 'no deal'

A no-deal Brexit poses a risk to the public because the UK would lose access to EU-wide security powers and databases, police leaders have warned.

Police and crime commissioners say law enforcement agencies "face a significant loss of operational capacity" if the arrangements stop.

They have asked the home secretary to confirm his contingency plans.

The Home Office says it will continue to make the case for the retention of the capabilities.

In a letter to Home Secretary Sajid Javid, the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners' cross-party Brexit Working Group stresses the importance of continued co-operation with European policing and justice bodies after March 2019.

It says 32 measures are currently being used on a daily basis including the European Arrest Warrant; the Schengen Information System - a database of "real time" alerts about certain individuals - and the European Criminal Records Information System.

"The UK and EU share a common and ever evolving threat picture. We believe that a comprehensive partnership in all areas of policing and security co-operation is of mutual benefit to all," they add.

The commissioners say after discussions with National Crime Agency and the National Police Chiefs' Council, they understand "considerable additional resource would be required for policing to operate using non-EU tools and that such tools would be sub-optimal - potentially putting operational efficiency and public safety at risk".

They add: "We are therefore concerned that a 'no deal' scenario could cause delays and challenges for UK policing and justice agencies."

The EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier has indicated the UK would not be able to remain part of the European Arrest Warrant after Brexit and said it would not have the same access to organisations such as police agency Europol.

But in June, the prime minister complained EU negotiators were blocking agreement on deals, risking the safety of EU and UK citizens.

A Home Office spokesman told the Guardian: "There is widespread recognition that the UK and EU can most effectively combat security threats when we work together.

"It is important we maintain operational capabilities after Brexit, and we will continue to make this case to the European Commission."

He said the government was confident co-operation would continue but it was also preparing for "every eventuality, including no deal".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45093322

Offline ShakaHislop

  • Shocktrooper of the Vinny Cable Nasties
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,790
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #219 on: August 7, 2018, 10:46:56 am »
On the subject of weird politics normalised, Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove has been fairly quiet recently. Took time to meet up with Bannon though, as did Mogg and Boris. Was some scuttlebutt that May intended to have Gove 'splain her ultimate plan to kick the Brexit can further into the future, Peston seems to be confirming that:

Facebook

Thing I still don't understand about this 'blind Brexit' is that any withdrawal agreement will need the Irish backstop. And the Irish backstop will dictate at least the minimum requirements for any future relationship. "We don't know where we're going, but we're definitely going to be getting on at Chester and getting off at Holyhead."

Theresa May in Scotland for talks with Nicola Sturgeon

Quote
Prior to the talks, Ms Sturgeon said MPs could not be asked to make a decision on the withdrawal agreement without details on what the future might look like.

She said: "With the Chequers proposals falling flat, even if a withdrawal agreement can be secured, there is a very real risk that we end up with a blind Brexit - which will see the UK step off the cliff edge next March without knowing what landing place will be.

"That would do as much harm to jobs, investment and the economy as a no deal Brexit and would leave the country directionless through the transition period.

"Given this lack of clarity and real concerns of no agreement, it is time the prime minister told us what her Plan B is. We cannot have no deal and we cannot have a blind Brexit. "

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45087246

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,421
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #220 on: August 7, 2018, 11:42:53 am »
First time ive checked this thread for a while and seeing this thread seems to be about Labour. its nothing new we have wanted Watson replaced for 2 years they know it ends for them at the party conference.

#resignwatson

Like I said on Twitter.

Remember the good old days before Jeremy Corbyn was antisemitic and the first coup was just about him being a good bloke but he was unelectable how far the Blairites have fallen since then as they get more desperate.

And idiots everywhere eat it up apart from the people that matter.

And good to hear there has been a surge in membership in the last week because of the media bias and the reason the today program lost 800,000 viewers with most said it was because of bias or they have an hidden agenda.

The membership even turned against Momentum when they said they were no longer backing Pete for the NEC a huge backlash and strangely apart from that one tweet they never mentioned it again not even in a official email about it. I think it shook them a bit that people didnt just follow them blindly and people know what they need to take Labour forward and everyone told them they were still voting for him even local branches of Momentum defied the vote and told people to still vote for him.

The Labour grassroots now have become an unstoppable machine now and I glad to be a part of it.
You're making the idea of walking away from Labour very appealing. very surprised to see you criticize Momentum as well as for holding Labour back. this Pete fella, Peter Willsman I assume. you're actually saying voting for Willsman will take the party forward. I don't even know what that means, Forward to where exactly. looks like a darker place wherever it is. how do you know the grassroots are backing Willsman, the voting only opened last week? I don't look at this as a challenge it's just a pointer, if Willsman wins then it shows the grassroots are now out of control. the grassroots may have taken over the organs of the Labour party but they are leaving us in no doubt on what they stand for and it's not fighting for decency and a better world.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2018, 02:59:46 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

  • FUCK THE POLICE - NWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #221 on: August 7, 2018, 11:49:31 am »
Would say it means momentum and the cranks are running the party and anyone with sense/self awareness should get out

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #222 on: August 7, 2018, 11:49:33 am »
Theresa May in Scotland for talks with Nicola Sturgeon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45087246

Yeah, I can see her point on planning and investment, although that's already happened this past two years gone. But 'blind' Brexit just still seems unhelpful other than to try and explain the government not having a clear, and achievable, plan for what it wants and score some political points from that. Which is fair enough for the politics but doesn't really cover where we'll be at should (!) a transition deal be agreed. If we have a transition deal then, by definition, we'll also have a set of things which have to be included within the future relationship with the EU - and which would seem to provide the shape of it on some major things.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,421
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #223 on: August 7, 2018, 12:40:26 pm »
Would say it means momentum and the cranks are running the party and anyone with sense/self awareness should get out
Momentum have lost their influence according to Trada. they asked people not to support Willsman but they are taking no notice, it would be interesting to know how Trada knows this. I can only assume the twitter/facebook grassroots network pull the strings now. they have only one aim. kick out the Blairites. you can see the delight they are getting doing this, ideology is far more important than Brexit and fighting for a better world. it's a tragedy.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Online TheShanklyGates

  • Firmly in the "shake it all about" camp
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,840
  • Outside The Shankly Gates...
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #224 on: August 7, 2018, 01:44:36 pm »
First time ive checked this thread for a while and seeing this thread seems to be about Labour. its nothing new we have wanted Watson replaced for 2 years they know it ends for them at the party conference.

#resignwatson

Like I said on Twitter.

Remember the good old days before Jeremy Corbyn was antisemitic and the first coup was just about him being a good bloke but he was unelectable how far the Blairites have fallen since then as they get more desperate.

And idiots everywhere eat it up apart from the people that matter.

And good to hear there has been a surge in membership in the last week because of the media bias and the reason the today program lost 800,000 viewers with most said it was because of bias or they have an hidden agenda.

The membership even turned against Momentum when they said they were no longer backing Pete for the NEC a huge backlash and strangely apart from that one tweet they never mentioned it again not even in a official email about it. I think it shook them a bit that people didnt just follow them blindly and people know what they need to take Labour forward and everyone told them they were still voting for him even local branches of Momentum defied the vote and told people to still vote for him.

The Labour grassroots now have become an unstoppable machine now and I glad to be a part of it.

But Watson is the democratically elected deputy leader of the party and you should all suck it up and get behind him, surely? Or does that only apply in the case of 'Jeremy'?

Good to know the Labour membership are focussing on the important things with hard Brexit a matter of months away. For fucks sake, what has happened to this country.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Trim0582

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,126
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #225 on: August 7, 2018, 01:57:24 pm »
The Labour grassroots now have become an unstoppable machine now and I glad to be a part of it.
Are we talking about Marxism rebranded?

I wasn't aware the machine had even started, let alone become unstoppable. The left is irrevocably broken, in fighting, splinter groups, identity politics creating ever smaller and opposed, interest groups, it is madness politicized. This is the danger of "group" think, if you don't think the same, you're out.

This is a fleeting renaissance driven by activist students an old socialists, I am not confident these are the people to deliver a brave new dawn.

Who knows? Maybe they will deliver it without the Gulags, or Khmer Rouge or another Holodomor, however, listening to the feckless idiots seems to suggest their lack of tolerance for differing ideas, will lead to the same tyranny it did in EVERY instance during the 20th century.

At least Diane Abbott thinks Mao did more good than harm, and it only cost 65 million lives.

Imagine the outrage if some horrible Tory worm had so casually dismissed the deaths of 65 million people, then having been asked further, actually trying to justify it. Now imagine you are likely going to try and justify her statement.

Gutter politics for a gutter nation, it is very concerning.

We are sleep walking into the largest constitutional change for 50 years, because our politicians are busy throwing mud at each other and trying to enact personal ideology.

When Frottage stood up in the European parliament and said the following:

"When I came here 17 years ago and said I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the Europeans Union, you all laughed at me. Well you're not laughing now."

It became clear this was the personal crusade and vanity project of a very small minority, how it has gone this far is stupefying, until you see the dearth of quality politicians and the political landscape presently and realise they are all doing it as well, with their own ideaologies.

« Last Edit: August 7, 2018, 04:00:08 pm by Trim0582 »

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

  • FUCK THE POLICE - NWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 40,806
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #226 on: August 7, 2018, 03:49:45 pm »
Fantastic post there trim

Offline redbyrdz

  • No to sub-optimal passing! Not content with one century, this girl does two together. Oh, and FUCK THE TORIES deh-deh-deh-deh!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,248
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #227 on: August 7, 2018, 05:06:22 pm »
The bit about Frottage...its interesting, isn't it. He and his party never had anything more than a handful of seats, but they will achive their biggest target. It shows that we do not live in a democracy at all, but in a system where a small elite minority manipulate the majority into whatever way they want.
"I want to build a team that's invincible, so that they have to send a team from bloody Mars to beat us." - Bill Shankly

Offline surfer. Fuck you generator.

  • surgood. As good as Suarez but CBA to play for us. Takes it on the chin and never holds a pointless grudge for several months.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,216
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #228 on: August 7, 2018, 05:31:34 pm »
The bit about Frottage...its interesting, isn't it. He and his party never had anything more than a handful of seats, but they will achive their biggest target. It shows that we do not live in a democracy at all, but in a system where a small elite minority manipulate the majority into whatever way they want.

You would hope there's more to it than that but if that's the case that system is no different in its substance to the corrupt authoritarian monarchies that straddle a lot of countries...except in its honesty. The latter only cursorily pretend to be fair and equal, if at all.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2018, 05:34:35 pm by surfer. Fuck you generator. »

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,675
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #229 on: August 7, 2018, 05:59:04 pm »
The bit about Frottage...its interesting, isn't it. He and his party never had anything more than a handful of seats, but they will achive their biggest target. It shows that we do not live in a democracy at all, but in a system where a small elite minority manipulate the majority into whatever way they want.

The "take home" message I get from Brexit is that the voting system isn't fit for purpose.  If we had PR, we wouldn't be coming out of the EU.

Online west_london_red

  • Knows his stuff - pull the udder one! RAWK's Dairy Queen.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,857
  • watching me? but whose watching you watching me?
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #230 on: August 7, 2018, 07:22:40 pm »
The "take home" message I get from Brexit is that the voting system isn't fit for purpose.  If we had PR, we wouldn't be coming out of the EU.

Why even bother with a voting system? Democracy isn’t giving us the results we want...
Thinking is overrated.
The mind is a tool, it's not meant to be used that much.
Rest, love, observe. Laugh.

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,675
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #231 on: August 7, 2018, 07:33:52 pm »
Why even bother with a voting system? Democracy isn’t giving us the results we want...

 ::)

Offline thejbs

  • well-focussed, deffo not at all bias......ed
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,763
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #232 on: August 7, 2018, 11:37:25 pm »
But didn't the majority of farmers want to leave?

Certainly did here in NI. After all they will continue to get their subsidy top-ups (just not from the EU, but from their Tory/DUP grandees), and life will be marvellous! They won't have to adhere to standards, can grow whatever they like without pesky Eurocrats telling them no, and will be able to sell land for building accelerated through without European intervention.

Utopia.

I think some polls showed between 53-58% if I recall correctly despite the NFU being clearly remain. In NI it was more split with Unionist farmers more likely to vote leave than Nationalist farmers. I've seen several interviews of border farmers who voted leave now experiencing bregret once they realised they'd lose subsidies and face all kinds of problems with their land being split by the (possibly now hard) border.

Having grown up in a border town I know plenty of farmers.  Some that I spoke to didn't vote brexit... they didn't vote remain either the lazy fuckers.

Offline thejbs

  • well-focussed, deffo not at all bias......ed
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,763
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #233 on: August 7, 2018, 11:42:09 pm »
Why even bother with a voting system? Democracy isn’t giving us the results we want...

Our democratic system allows for our elected representatives to make decisions for us in our best interests. We have non-binding referenda that can, from time to time, be used as an indicator of public opinion in clear, unambiguous yes-or-no questions.

So if our democratic system had been used as designed, we wouldn't be in this fucking mess.

Offline rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,764
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #234 on: August 7, 2018, 11:48:20 pm »
Our democratic system allows for our elected representatives to make decisions for us in our best interests. We have non-binding referenda that can, from time to time, be used as an indicator of public opinion in clear, unambiguous yes-or-no questions.

So if our democratic system had been used as designed, we wouldn't be in this fucking mess.

If we didn't have a shower of self serving c*nts in power and opposition, we wouldn't be in this fucking mess.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Online hide5seek

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,324
  • We all live in THE 5 EUROPEAN CUPS
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #235 on: August 8, 2018, 07:39:53 am »
You realise the campaign to get rid of members that are undermining the leader of the labour party is so that we can concentrate on the important stuff without having to be distracted by nonsense spread by Blairites. You're venting at the wrong people, had we all got behind Corbyn we could have concentrated on getting a remain policy into the manifesto
Corbyn isn't a remainer and never has been. And Labour is supposed to be a broad church.

Offline FiSh77

  • LoAves0. Is completely hooked on RAWK. Dead ringer for Amos Taylor. Burns, baby, burns.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,918
  • We all live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #236 on: August 8, 2018, 11:13:14 am »
When the NFU say that, you know we’re in trouble...

They are very conservative (small c)

the farmers can get to fuck, every field around here and other parts where i was travelling in the run up to the referendum had massive vote leave signs, loads of crying c*nts around here now moaning they're going to lose access to cheap temporary labour

they can fuck off, they voted to lose their cap payments, that shouldn't be replaced with government money, and as far as i'm concerned they should now have to employ british people on full time contracts with a decent living wage, and they can get to fuck if they think they're passing the costs on to customers

they got what they voted for, now do some fucking hard work you crying c*nts

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,421
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #237 on: August 8, 2018, 11:31:39 am »
You realise the campaign to get rid of members that are undermining the leader of the labour party is so that we can concentrate on the important stuff without having to be distracted by nonsense spread by Blairites. You're venting at the wrong people, had we all got behind Corbyn we could have concentrated on getting a remain policy into the manifesto
Nothing could be further than the truth could it.
If everyone had got behind Corbyn then we could have concentrated on getting a remain policy in the Labour Manifesto. Corbyn supporters stopped a Brexit manifesto vote last year to protect Corbyns leave stance on Brexit. thats a crazy way of concentrating on a remain policy.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/25/how-momentum-stopped-vote-single-market-labour-conference

Corbyn may well be a leave supporter, I don't think thats the real issue when it comes to judging Corbyns response to Brexit over the last 2 yrs, the real issue is he has taken the Tory properganda stance to Brexit, he helped to keep Brexit on track and it made it far easier for JRM.Gove, Johnson,Cash,Redwood. he has given their arguments credibility, that's unforgivable and history will judge him harshly.
Corbyn has told voters Labour will get a Brexit that protects jobs and the economy while respecting why people voted leave, that is a blatant lie, it's the properganda of the hard right. this has also meant he has been unable to attack the hard right for promising the impossible as he has made the same promises.
MPs are entitled to hold any opinion they wish and Corbyns entitled to his leave opinion, he is not entitled to tell the public a pack of lies to justify his opinion.
We are going to leave the EU and there is no deal that will stop the s.. hitting the fan. every deal will bring chaos. the so called Blairites have been fighting to stop this madness but the priority from Corbyn supporters is protecting Corbyn from any criticism not the disastrous effects of Brexit. a good example of this protection is you're post.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,640
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #238 on: August 8, 2018, 11:56:34 am »
Can I remind everyone to read the initial post in this thread otherwise I'm going to ask the mods to close it and that's our Brexit discussions done.

This is to discuss Brexit. If you want to talk about Corbyn open a Corbyn thread. If you want to talk about Labour open a Labour thread etc.

If people continuine not to talk about Brexit then I'll ask for it to be closed. Cheers.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Brexit - the final chapters (***)
« Reply #239 on: August 8, 2018, 12:13:57 pm »
On the back of May telling Sturgeon that it'll all be sorted out in October with Chequer's as a basis, thought this was a useful article with a view away from the internal British debates. Claus Grube is the former Danish ambassador to the UK and at the EU.

Spoiler
Lately there have been renewed calls by UK politicians, British media and European academics for ”flexibility and creativity” from the EU in response to the British government’s Chequers White Paper.

There is no doubt that all EU27 countries’ governments are scrutinising the White Paper thoroughly, but there will be limits to flexibility and creativity due to their national responsibilities vis-à-vis their electorates, businesses and tax payers. If the UK wants a ”UK first” approach the reply will be ”EU first”.

Everybody in the EU would like to have a good and close relationship with the UK after Brexit, but not for the price of undermining the integrity of the Single Market, which has benefitted so greatly all EU countries’ economies for the last 25 years. And reading the White Paper it seems to be a creative, but un-balanced combination of EEA-rights with only FTA-obligations to the benefit only of the UK.

It remains to be seen in the ongoing talks with the UK government, whether the rights and obligations will be balanced upwards towards a EEA/Switzerland-like model or downwards towards a more traditional FTA-model.

One example: why  should other EU countries invest time and money in a bureaucratic never-tried-before custom system, with uncertain outcomes, which do not benefit them or their business and which could be of a only temporary nature? This makes the UK criticism of EU-bureaucracy look hypocritical.

Another problem is the present turmoil in UK national politics. Just days after the publication of the White Paper the government changed the part dealing with the crucial Customs/Backstop. That limits the willingness to long-term commitments if they can be overturned by a parliamentary majority any day or after a next election.

If Brexit is to make sense somewhere it only does so if you can improve your competitiveness by deregulating and distorting competition for goods, services, capital and qualified labour with deviating rules, state-aid, lower labour cost and/or reduced regulatory costs. Otherwise why leave the EU/EEA?

And that’s what the EU27 fears will happen over time and the reason why there will be strict limits to the “creativity and flexibility” when it comes to securing a ”level playing field” as this will only amount to a transfer of resources from EU to UK to cover as much of the cost of Brexit as the UK can get away with. The EU27 countries will try to minimise that cost as much as possible in the opposite direction – why not?

It is also a challenge to negotiate a far reaching ”bespoke” deal with a government which does not seem to have a majority for its own policy nor a working majority for any clear alternative. The first thing to ask oneself before negotiating is - can they deliver? If in doubt you play safe.

The simplest way to do so is to remain united and adhere to the EU rules and principles, which protect the EU countries against the distorting “cherry picking” . That’s just an euphemism for reverting to 19th century nationalistic power politics. And a way to maximise the ”export” of the cost of Brexit to the EU27.

In traditional UK politics there are only winners and losers. But if the EU is going to be the loser and UK the winner, there will be no deal. Not because of lack of ”flexibility or creativity”, but because the EU27 governments cannot afford to let their electorates and economies pay disproportionately for the cost of Brexit, which in no way is of their making.

My country Denmark will be relatively hard hit by a “no-deal”. Already a year ago the cost of a no-deal scenario was estimated to a loss over medium-term of around 1% of GDP corresponding to the IMFs newly published estimate. Not a welcome contribution, but manageable. Not very different to the loss already suffered by the sanctions towards Russia and their counter sanctions. A global recession created by a fully fleshed trade war with the US would be more costly to Denmark than any form of Brexit.

So the “no deal”-scenario is discounted in many EU countries position making. And the EU will not be pushed around by threats or accusations of inflexibility or lack of imagination. Brexit is the wish of the UK only. We have been told all along that ”Brexit means Brexit”. So if the political establishment in the UK prefers a no-deal, so be it! Even though it will only reinforce the lose-lose nature of Brexit and benefit no-one, but those who dream of dismantling the multilateral system of free trade and international law and order.

Flexibility and creativity, yes – but on the condition of a fair balance between rights and obligations for everyone.
[close]

Source

I'd create a drinking game around how many times I see a politician, over the next few months, suggest something precisely along the lines of what Grube says will not work but I'm not sure I can afford that much gin.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."