Topic: Liverpool fans that support England in Internationals..

[red1977]

If you want to be a Liverpool fan, you have to really hate England.
I do.
How much?
Lots.
Right, you're in.

Not everyone has said they hate England in the thread, some do, some dont, some can take it or leave it. I know lads who support other clubs that fall into each of these catagories too.

[QR350]

As someone mentioned here before, I'd rather see Liverpool win a throw than England win the World Cup. Not that it's ever going to happen anyway, teams like Germany, Spain and Brazil will always be far superior.

[Danny Boys Dad]

There was a time of course when supporting England was almost the same as supporting Liverpool. I think in the late 70's we had about 7 or 8 players in the team for a few matches.

Had a search round and it was the 1980 European championships, 6 Liverpool players in the squad for the match against Belgium. Didn't make it out of the group.

Clemence, Neal, Thompson, Johnson, McDermott and Kennedy.

We had 5 in 2002

[Lusty]

All depends on context I suppose. Don't watch or care about friendlies, especially mid season. Actively wanted the team to lose when Hodgson was manager or Terry was captain and the team was full of players I hated.

Now though? Fairly inoffensive bunch of players and I've got nothing against Southgate (save for reservations about how good he is). Would like them to do well, would make a lot of people I know really happy and you've seen how much it means to players like Trent getting the call.  Good on them.

Yes there's a fair few knuckle draggers in the support but that element exists in Liverpool's fan base as well.

[Poet]

Will support them in a game, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if they lost in a World Cup Final.

Champions League and LFC, on the other hand...

[rob1966]

Alan Hansens testimonial in 1988 was boss, warm up game for England for the 88 Euro Championships and we beat them 3-2. Even back then we were giving England shit

I remember the whole kop giving it 'You'll win fuck all again, Engerland, Engerland' - and loads of Scotland, Wales and Irish chants. Was ace.

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=191867.0

[Cu Chulainn]

Supported England fervently as a kid. Lost interest after the 2010 World Cup, and went through a brief period of wanting them to lose, pretty much solely because of John Terry after the whole Wayne Bridge thing. I'm not as passionate about England as I was when I was like 12 (was so gutted we lost on penalties to Portugal in 2006, I really thought we could win the tournament that year), but I support them fully again now. I hope we have a good World Cup, but it's really disappointing that Wilshere and especially Lallana aren't going. 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I don't understand the concept of not supporting england, it's the country we live in afterall..

don't get me wrong, i would much rather see LFC win the Champions league or premier league over England winning the world cup. But i would still love to see England win the big one, imagine the celebration across the nation.

Basically, i'll support england, but won't be bummed (for long) when they go out.

It's isn't even so much as not supporting them,I just spend all me time worrying about injuries and the wins don't even come close to 3pts for Liverpool & when we lose it doesn't even register on my mood.

Younger reds 18 to early 30s are more likely to support them because at that age it's any excuse for a good session with the lads & even those of us that aren't arsed,with the right amount of juice inside us will be supporting away in the same circumstances.

[Cu Chulainn]

I was thinking about this a bit and I think it’s down to lack of national pride, there isn’t an “English” passport, only a British one. For that reason I think we should just have a British FA like they had for the Olympics.

I don't agree with this, I'm forever hearing people describing themselves as primarily and even exclusively English, rather than British. At least where I come from (down South, rural area), working-class people identify mostly as English; being "British" is largely an upper / middle-class thing.

I think the apathy is more down to the shambles of the FA, and the perceived (rightly or wrongly) aloofness of many of the players, who are perceived as not being bothered about England, or even holding supporters in contempt. Sterling came out with a massive cry baby comment about a year ago saying something like "the fans don't love the players", which kind of reinforces the idea that the players are entitled and pampered.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I'm betting more Liverpool supporters will be hoping Egypt do something than England. 

Not me I want Mo fit & on a beach asap.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I'd probably go with that too.

It's become trendy to hate the England national team

Kinda how it is trendy for people outside of Liverpool (and Evertonians   ) to hate Liverpool.

[sms1986]

Kinda how it is trendy for people outside of Liverpool (and Evertonians   ) to hate Liverpool.

Generally, I don't really know many people who hate Liverpool, unless you mean the club and then that's just football rivalry. I think a lot of the people who hate the city are often people who just hate working class towns/cities in general anyway.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Generally, I don't really know many people who hate Liverpool, unless you mean the club and then that's just football rivalry. I think a lot of the people who hate the city are often people who just hate working class towns/cities in general anyway.

The City & LFC have had  too much shit thrown at us for near on 50yrs for me to think that those in power didn't have a serious grudge against both the people and the city didn't carry a bit of hate towards us.

Had the country really backed us when we needed it most then we wouldn't have had to wait for justice.

[Qston]

It is possible to be patriotic and not identify as an england supporter. This is primarily because an unhealthy number of england supporters (NOT ALL !!) bring a lot of shame and embarrassment to the rest of the nation when they start acting like utter dick heads with their racist, homophobic and ultra violent tendancies.

[Kekule]

What was it Carragher said about his missed penalty in the 2006 shoot out with Portugal?

“At least it wasn’t Liverpool” or something like that, wasn’t it? 

[Qston]

What was it Carragher said about his missed penalty in the 2006 shoot out with Portugal?

“At least it wasn’t Liverpool” or something like that, wasn’t it? 

He certainly did and it was piss funny

[lessthanmatt]

I don't want to sound like a twat but a lot of that above is bollocks and comes across like you have very little experience of Liverpool as a city.

Maybe it's an age thing for me or an up bringing thing. But supporting England would not be on my radar. It's nothing about proving I'm the biggest Liverpool supporter around either. I know a lot of people, but certainly not everyone, feels the same within Liverpool. That's my experience anyway.

Wherever you are from in the country I'd suggest it's different. My experience of living in various places are that it's probably the South East (not necessarily London), Yorkshire and South West that seem the most patriotic and into England football team. Somewhere like Manchester seemed more aligned with Liverpool.

The other aspect here is that all my mates support Liverpool. I go the game with them, watch games on the TV with them and have had amazing experiences following Liverpool and watching us collect trophies. We have that shared experience. For people in other parts of the country you could easily have a group of mates who support completely different club teams. Supporting England is the only time they can support the same team. I can understand why that would be an important thing and why they'd cherish this. I've nothing against others supporting England but Liverpool fans not  from Liverpool should try and understand why there may be resentment or apathy towards the national team from fans that come from Liverpool

What part is bollocks?

I said I completely understand people being apathetic towards England. I've lived in various parts of the South and it's the ordinary here, especially in the younger generations. In my experience, this attitude is endemic amongst supporters of any top-flight club, no matter age or location. International football is boring aside from two months in every 4 years, interrupting the top-flight domestic calendar for pointless friendlies and near-pointless qualifiers again minnow nations. It makes it hard for people to care or get passionate about. Even the non-football-enthusiasts, who stick little Union Jacks on their cars during the World Cup or throw garden parties, are just rocking the community vibe and couldn't really give a fuck what happens to the national team. I disagree that there's these entire geographic hubs and counties with crazy patriotism for the national side. I know people in London and Yorkshire and they just don't give a shit. Of course, I haven't surveyed everyone in those areas, but neither have you.

So we don't disagree that apathy for England is perfectly understandable. So we can just concentrate on resentment.

Obviously I don't live in Liverpool, and so of course I don't have an ingrained experience of Liverpool as a city. But like I said, lots of areas of the UK have negative stereotypes about their cities and their people (inbreds, druggies, sheep-shaggers, bin dippers, degenerate gays and hippies, fake tanning 20 IQ morons). It's not just a Liverpool thing. And for sure, certain areas in the north have suffered historically from some some disgraceful politics. But England isn't just the government. It's the people and the landscape and the heritage and the culture. When I watch England play, I don't find myself bitterly willing them to lose just because I hate the conservative party or what Thatcher did 30 years ago or spineless Nick Clegg who fucked my tuition fees. Once more, I don't live in Liverpool so perhaps I just "won't get it", but those were the two reasons you gave me for understanding Liverpool's resentment of the national team, so I responded to them.

[Claude Cat]

I'm scouse and I'd consider myself an England fan for sure, during the tournaments. Can't stand them when it's rubbish friendlies or qualifiers mind, in which our players come back injured unnecessarily.

I'm probably a minority, but it didn't seem that way growing up. Grew up in West Derby and loads of us had England kits with Gerrard and Owen on and stuff. Guess it's different when you're a kid.

[Purple Red]

I understand people who apathetic towards the national game but I don't really understand the visceral hatred some seem to have for their own national team, especially when many of their own club's players are delighted to pull on the international jersey.

[killer-heels]

I support England. I would not say I am passionate about them even if a load of our players played for them but I still support them.

[Rob K]

Earliest tournament I remember was 1990 when I was 7. Between then and 2004 I actively did want England to do well. Since then I’ve gradually gave less and less of a shit.
These days I just enjoy winning money by betting against them. Cheers Iceland! 👍

[Frank Becton]

I support England because I am English, obviously my passion is for Liverpool. I mean LFC players represent their country so we should at least support them.
International Friendlies though, get on my nerves.

[stevensr123]

People saying it's for political reasons and bring up thatcher and the 80's...well it's all very bizzare.

My dad worked on the docks in the 80's and got sacked off when the industry was taken away from the city. He still supports England.

Why? Because football has fuck all to do with political decisions such as that.

Most in the current team where still in their dads nut ffs.

For me I just don't get the shear Hatred that comes off some people and sometimes it comes off as bigging ones self up "I'm the biggest scouser going therefore fuck England". When in reality hundreds of thousands of scousers will be out in town supporting the England team.

I can understand saying I hate the FA etc but you support the team, not the owners of a club etcMy heart is obviously Liverpool though and that becomes before anything else.


I mean one of our own (Trent) is there and I'm so proud for him as well.

[jamieredders]

Totally bullshit thread.

I have been with England in tournaments since Spain 82.  Scousers everywhere doing the same.  Plus as somebody said above, every tournament the pubs are packed in the city with scousers supporting England.

I'm not going this time.  Simply can't afford it.

But I sure as fuck hope Jordan Henderson lifts the trophy.

 

[DanJay87]

  I’m Welsh so have never had anyone to support at a major tournament. My mother’s Irish so I’d jump on that bandwagon if they were in. I would enjoy the tournaments as an impartial observer, for the football and the narratives that would pop up here and there. And naturally, I would enjoy the build up, the confidence and the inevitable fall of Ingerland across all media platforms that we have to share. And the fans... eurgh, always seemed to highlight the ugly, imperialistic side of English bellendary.

  Then Euro 2016 happened and I was obsessed, engrossed in the pure joy of having a team represent me. Enjoying the singing, the travel, the fun and camaraderie had with other countries’ fans. Everyone seemed to be completely besotted with the whole experience. The emotions during that Belgium game were beyond..

  Once back in Liverpool I was discussing it all with friends in the pub, who of course were not arsed about England’s display, even enjoying their Icelandic implosion with the same glee as a Celt would.

  Club v country is a no brainer for Liverpudlians for obvious reasons, even beyond football. It’s a shame the connotations around the England team and the certain type of ‘Englishness’ associated with it stop huge swathes of the football loving public wanting anything to do with it. Because as I found in ‘16, having someone to truly support and be proud of really elevates the experience.

  But the only solution we could come up with in the pub that day that *might* work, was if there was a national team for the North West... daft pub talk.

[Samvice]

Not British but always supported England simply because it's where largest number of Liverpool players tend to be and my own country is nonexistent in football.

[Iska]

My observer’s take on the English hatred for England is that it’s down to two things: how little the English are interested in other countries (especially in football), and how as a result of that the only real rivalry that English people really feel is with other English people.

So once you associate the England team with vulgar earn-too-much players, knuckle-dragging fans, or the upper-class FA, or non-scousers or whoever, the logical response is: England can get to fuck.

Other countries don’t really have that, so generally speaking they all get behind their lads.  Though I understand Germany also hated its team until 2006, I don’t know what that was about.

[24/7]

[snip]

I hate repeating myself but this time I'll gladly do so.

NOBODY in this thread, not at least that I have seen, is claiming to be a bigger ANYTHING for not getting behind the England team, let alone being a bigger Scouser or better Liverpool supporter so for pity's sake can we cut that shit out?!

I'd be equally scathing about anyone calling anyone a LESSER Liverpool supporter for declaring their loyalty to the England team as I would be anyone accusing somebody of thinking they're a BETTER Liverpool supporter because they don't have the same national team loyalty.

As far as I can see, this is not the point of the thread. Some might debate what IS the point of the thread. Opinions about the national team are being expressed, reasons given, usually personal ones - which are then attacked - nothing like a fucking RAWK debate to bring out the divisions and let the personal shit fly is there.....

Some people don't like the England team ethos and hype and whatnot - some dig it - some support Liverpool - some don't. Let's move on.

[Wabaloolah]

The last time I wanted  England to do well in a tournament was 1982, I am from Wales but back then as a kid I loved watching Liverpool players play in the England team but when Ian Rush came to prominence Imswitched to my counry of birth (yes I know thats gone well over the years).

I can categorically say I'll be not wanting England to do very well.

Mind you, in no way do I want the likes of Lukaku and Hazzard to do well

[stevensr123]

I hate repeating myself but this time I'll gladly do so.

NOBODY in this thread, not at least that I have seen, is claiming to be a bigger ANYTHING for not getting behind the England team, let alone being a bigger Scouser or better Liverpool supporter so for pity's sake can we cut that shit out?!

I'd be equally scathing about anyone calling anyone a LESSER Liverpool supporter for declaring their loyalty to the England team as I would be anyone accusing somebody of thinking they're a BETTER Liverpool supporter because they don't have the same national team loyalty.

As far as I can see, this is not the point of the thread. Some might debate what IS the point of the thread. Opinions about the national team are being expressed, reasons given, usually personal ones - which are then attacked - nothing like a fucking RAWK debate to bring out the divisions and let the personal shit fly is there.....

Some people don't like the England team ethos and hype and whatnot - some dig it - some support Liverpool - some don't. Let's move on.

sorry mate but I didn't even mention people on this site, I'm talking about some people in general that I have met in real life.

So not sure why you have to go on a massive rant, people are simply sharing their opinions and thoughts like you said

[Tesco tearaway]

Ingurland are just the London Media & FA united.

Can't stand 'em. Can't stand their songs, their fans, most of the players, the Queen or that awful band that always follows them.

I always enjoy watching them get beaten, especially by the Germans or the South Americans. I especially enjoy the media meltdown if old johnny foreigner has cheated in some way.

Perfect summer for me would be England v Uruguay quarter/semi final with Suarez hand-balling the winner into the net after getting away with biting Harry Kane.

I'm English, North Western and exiled in London.

[24/7]

sorry mate but I didn't even mention people on this site, I'm talking about some people in general that I have met in real life.

So not sure why you have to go on a massive rant, people are simply sharing their opinions and thoughts like you said

Thank you for the clarification. Context creates meaning and I know I am not the only person who will be relieved.

[Red_Mist]

Totally bullshit thread.

I have been with England in tournaments since Spain 82.  Scousers everywhere doing the same.  Plus as somebody said above, every tournament the pubs are packed in the city with scousers supporting England.

I'm not going this time.  Simply can't afford it.

But I sure as fuck hope Jordan Henderson lifts the trophy.

 

I’ve been to one England match in my life, fucking hated it, surrounded in the pub beforehand by EDL c*nts singing no surrender, about 6 fuckin brain cells between the lot of em. When you’ve witnessed that scum (and that’s being polite) you understand the Scouse not English banner that adorned the Kop end.

[S]

Supported England fervently as a kid. Lost interest after the 2010 World Cup, and went through a brief period of wanting them to lose, pretty much solely because of John Terry after the whole Wayne Bridge thing. I'm not as passionate about England as I was when I was like 12 (was so gutted we lost on penalties to Portugal in 2006, I really thought we could win the tournament that year), but I support them fully again now. I hope we have a good World Cup, but it's really disappointing that Wilshere and especially Lallana aren't going. 

Exactly the case with me. I was fully behind them until 2010, then a kind of disinterest set in.

[quinny]

This will be an incoherent rambling about supporting England, so bear with me!

I'm an England supporter. I've largely grown up down South, which may have something to do with it. I've been to numerous games at both the Old and New Wembley and a couple of away games. Travelling abroad with England opened my eyes to the culture of the fanbase, with neither trip an experience I really want to repeat. A mate and I went to Switzerland away in 2010 and the way England fans behave abroad is embarrassing. The songbook is horrific - a majority of the crowd sing Ten German Bombers, No Surrender etc no matter who the opponent. The other away I attended was Wales, and I was embarrassed to be in the England section. Every song was a generic, crap chant about sheep, how shit Cardiff was (this was around the time of the 'I want to go home' chant) etc. I understand this is the case at aways (we sing about Manchester at Old Trafford) but there was barely a song in support of the team, and bringing inflatable sheep to Cardiff and shouting sheep-shaggers isn't really my cup of tea.

The main problem with England's fanbase is that the 'hardcore' are the worst of the lot. Largely in club football, you'll get a lot of 'whoppers' at home games but not many at aways. The travelling fans generally know the score. This former is true of England, however the travelling fans seem to be the worst for hooliganism, xenophobia and other negative traits that have already been described on this thread.

I didn't miss an England game at the New Wembley for several years after it opened, and most supporters are either Soccer AM types or casually racist & xenophobic (or often both). There seems to be barely any what I would call 'decent' fans, i.e. those who don't boo the opposition anthem, sing 'who are ya' or about England's military and/or political history. I used to go to the games in spite of the fans, but have since preferred to save my money for other things, i.e. Liverpool aways or train fares to Anfield.

Outside of the support, a big problem with England is the lack of any meaningful matches outside tournaments. The qualifiers are almost always against piss poor opposition, with the games against decent sides often friendlies where both teams play their reserves. Whilst in the Premier League anyone can beat anyone, and every match counts, England could play San Marino 100 times and would always beat them at least 3-0. I actually enjoy going to the matches to see the team play, but I can see why there's no appetite to watch them, never mind that generally speaking international football is dull as dishwater!

I'm not sure if I understand people not supporting them because of the players. I found it strange supporting John Terry and Wayne Rooney, but I could bear it when they were wearing an England shirt. If we signed John Terry tomorrow would you not support us? I'm of a similar mindset with the fans - believe me nobody dislikes the stereotypical England fan as much as me, but England are still my team. Again (hypothetically) if Liverpool fans suddenly started behaving like England fans would you stop supporting us? To be fair I can see why these would be reasons not to bother if you've never followed England (it would certainly put me off), but if you would otherwise support England I'm not sure I get it myself.

On a separate note, and this is probably just me, but I can't stand the hype around major tournaments. At club level everyone hates bandwagon jumpers. The song 'where were you when you were shit' gets sung at Stamford Bridge and the Etihad regularly (although City's fanbase is still almost non-existent to be fair). With England it seems encouraged to not bother in the qualifiers but to turn up for tournaments. Perhaps this ties in with tournaments being the only important games in the international calendar, but personally I hate going to the pub and hearing people spout shite who haven't watched a game in two years.

All negativity aside I still support England, as I'm born and bred here. I'd definitely identify as British, and strangely wouldn't want to be labelled as an England 'fan' for all the connotations that come with it, but I still support the team. That being said, there's a part of me that would hate the hype if they actually won anything! Given that it's no surprise I'm still club over country by a long distance. I'd much rather Liverpool won the League Cup than England won the World Cup - to be honest if we were drawing 0-0 in injury time on the first day of the season and you offered me a Liverpool penalty or an England World Cup win I'd go with the former.

Long story short I hate everything about supporting England, and would much prefer success at Liverpool, but I still follow the national team because I've lived here my whole life and grown up supporting them. More fool me!

[slotmachine]

When a half-fit Suarez scored twice to beat England in the last world cup was total bliss. One of the best memories i have of international football. Have that the FA you fucking gang of shithouses. England for me represent all the shite i despise of this country. The fucking establishment and its London centric nonsense. Its a common feeling in the city. I will watch the games because i love the euro's and the world cup. I know plenty of scousers who support England and i have no problem at all with that. Now this Royal fucking Wedding is doing me head in and honestly is not good for my mental wellbeing. We have to win number 6 or im fucked. 

[cloggypop]

England fans are full of bad wools

[the 92A]

Some do some don't, I'm scouse my dad worked on the docks and I don't, he wasn't arsed about England and I'm the same. Definite disconnect in the 80's when it felt like it was Liverpool vs the world, but still some who supported England when a tournament was on but majority of my match going mates weren't that into international football noticed it changed a bit around 96 and Venables saw more support for England around liverpool but still a lot not that arsed

[Yorkykopite]

It depends.

If I’m in a room full of English people supporting England I generally want them to lose. On the other hand if I’m in a room full of English people who detest England I almost certainly want them to win.

It also depends a bit on how they play. I can start off a game hoping England win. But after a few minutes of watching how turgid they are in midfield I actually start hoping they’ll be punished. That’s the opposite of ‘support’ I guess.

Then there’s the Liverpool factor. I may start off a tournament hoping England will do well, especially if they have Liverpool players on the pitch. But as soon as a Liverpool player is subbed off I can feel my interest cool. Though there must be a little bit of patriotism here I suppose because I’m completely indifferent to the fate of foreign nations even if they have Reds playing for them. It wouldn’t concern me a bit, for example, if Egypt got knocked out early. I could never do what the Scots do and get all bound up in another nation’s team just because their own is shite.

Other points. It would help if the national anthem was changed to something a self-respecting person could sing. The royal one we have to sing makes me vomit. There again England’s a great place and it’s far bigger than just the monarchy and the Tory party etc. It’s a sign of how mature and democratic the country is that so many people share these misgivings about wanting the English footy team to do well. For that reason alone I sort of want them to do well.

[CHOPPER]