Author Topic: VAR! Video Assistant Referee & Shite Referees in General  (Read 1339289 times)

Offline John_P

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,782
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1120 on: May 18, 2018, 09:38:40 pm »
Notts County is getting royally fucked by wrong decisions in this playoff match. Perfectly onside goal ruled out from them, and then Coventry scores a goal that was not once but twice offside.
Plus Coventrys equaliser in the first leg came from an awful penalty decision from the ref.
"I must go to the hospital because the injury was so serious that maybe he will be there for one week,"

Gamertag: Chosen John

Online rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,791
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1121 on: May 18, 2018, 09:52:59 pm »
Plus Coventrys equaliser in the first leg came from an awful penalty decision from the ref.

As has been said time after time though, if the same shit refs are watching the VAR as giving these awful decisions, VAR is not going to make things better. The FA needs to sort the standard first before technology is used.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline John_P

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,782
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1122 on: May 18, 2018, 10:00:01 pm »
As has been said time after time though, if the same shit refs are watching the VAR as giving these awful decisions, VAR is not going to make things better. The FA needs to sort the standard first before technology is used.

Undoubtedly, refereeing standards seem to have dropped so much in the past few years.

Dreading the world cup with VAR, loads of referees using it for the first time. It's going to be a shambles.
"I must go to the hospital because the injury was so serious that maybe he will be there for one week,"

Gamertag: Chosen John

Online rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,791
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1123 on: May 20, 2018, 12:06:44 pm »
Undoubtedly, refereeing standards seem to have dropped so much in the past few years.

Dreading the world cup with VAR, loads of referees using it for the first time. It's going to be a shambles.

Boss one in the FA Cup final yesterday, Sanchez goal rightly ruled off for offside, yet the VAR official (Swarbrick) didn't see the blatant penalty in the build up where Smalling gets grabbed around the waist by a Chelsea defender and lifted into the air, which is even more shocking as they paused the replay at that point.

Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,947
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1124 on: May 20, 2018, 12:11:21 pm »
Boss one in the FA Cup final yesterday, Sanchez goal rightly ruled off for offside, yet the VAR official (Swarbrick) didn't see the blatant penalty in the build up where Smalling gets grabbed around the waist by a Chelsea defender and lifted into the air, which is even more shocking as they paused the replay at that point.



Lifted into the air?! He’s just jumping to try and head the ball

Smelling is getting grabbed around the waist but he’s also grabbing the defenders shoulders, which gives him no chance of jumping.
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,879
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1125 on: June 13, 2018, 02:56:25 am »
MOSCOW -- FIFA director of refereeing Massimo Busacca tried to set expectations about the organization's introduction of Video Assistant Referee (VAR) for the 2018 World Cup, telling gathered media not to expect perfection and that certain reviews could potentially take as long as 10 minutes.

Busacca was part of a panel that took part in the Referees Media Briefing held by FIFA at Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium. Pierluigi Collina, the chairman of the FIFA Referees Committee was also in attendance, as were World Cup referees Sandro Ricci and Rashvan Irmatov.

During the briefing it was confirmed that Nestor Pitana of Argentina would referee Thursday's opening match between Russia and Saudi Arabia, with compatriots Juan Pablo Bellatti and Hernan Maidana acting as assistant referees. Ricci will be the fourth official, while Massimiliano Irrati, Mauro Vigliano, Carlos Astroza and Daniele Orsato will serve as VARs.

But the Q&A portion of the briefing soon centered on VAR and its implementation. The 2018 World Cup will mark the first time VAR has been used in the tournament, though it has been used in several leagues around the world as well as select FIFA events, including the 2016 Club World Cup. Collina reiterated that VAR would only be used to review goals and penalty decisions, direct red card decisions, or to clear up cases of mistaken identity.

Busacca later said that it would not be perfect.

"We are looking to have an incredible uniformity and consistency, but don't think that technology solves the problem 100 percent," he said. "In front of a video, you will always have a human person who is making an interpretation. It's not goal-line technology with a vibration. No, it's an interpretation."

Collina insisted that the implementation of VAR would help referees psychologically by giving them the chance to correct mistakes.

"Psychological issues for referees are very important," he said. "It's the main reason why the referee makes the so-called 'on-field review.' Because it would be very, very difficult for someone to change a decision taken on the field of play without knowing what happened. His self-confidence, for the rest of the game, could be heavily affected. That's why we are convinced that having the ref with the possibility to review the incident and change his mind and change his decision would be very helpful in terms of limiting the psychological effects on himself."

He added: "If I see I was wrong and I change my decision, then my mind is free."

Busacca also explained why the VARs would wear the same uniform as thoe referees on the field, even though they'll be in a control center.

"They have to feel the game because they are going to make an interpretation in some situation, so they have to remember they are referees," he said. "What's the best way to remember you are a referee? To wear referee kit."

Collina added: "My officials, they are sweating. Believe me, the stress makes them sweat. It's not possible for them to be dressed like a clerk. They are doing something that is stressful, believe me."

Busacca added that World Cup referees must ensure all the time used for video review is played at the end of each half.

"All the minutes, all the seconds, lost by VAR [video assistant referees] will be added at the end," said Busacca. "We don't want to lose any seconds lost by any interruption."

The process for reviewing one of the most complex incidents that can be reviewed -- a running confrontation involving all players -- will take as long as needed.

"We will take all the possible time to see if there is a clear red card," said Busacca, who was a 2010 World Cup referee. "When it is related to match confrontation and not respecting the image [of football], we can even stay 10 minutes at the video to see exactly what happened."

http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-wor...perfect-but-ready-for-world-cup-fifa-director
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline gjr1

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,398
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1126 on: June 13, 2018, 03:44:52 am »
Going to be a nightmare!!!!
Obi-Wan:
Mos Eisley spaceport. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.

Offline rowan_d

  • boat. Señor Paolo de Souza-Farquharson :)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,309
  • JFT96
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1127 on: June 13, 2018, 04:46:33 am »
Can see it being dropped after the first round of group matches

Ridiculous to put it on the world stage, with officials who have never used it before in real match situations, while its still going through teething pains everywhere else it's used.

Offline BoRed

  • BoRing
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,913
  • BoRac
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1128 on: June 13, 2018, 08:54:08 am »
Leave it to VAR: World Cup linesmen told not to flag for tight offsides

• Pierluigi Collina tells officials to let video rule out goals
• VAR rulings will be replayed on big screens inside stadiums

Martha Kelner in Moscow

Tue 12 Jun 2018 18.58 BST

Fans inside the World Cup stadiums will be shown replays of incidents requiring video assistant refereeing decisions to reduce the confusion that has reigned during trials of the technology in England and other domestic leagues.

Supporters at the tournament in Russia will be shown clips of the passage of play that was under revision but only once the referee has made his decision and play has restarted.
How will VAR work at the World Cup and how much is riding on it?

Pierluigi Collina, the chairman of Fifa’s referees committee, said the problems with lengthy delays during trials had been ironed out. The Italian also said assistant referees had been advised to keep their flag down for tight offside calls and to leave it to VAR to decide.

“If you see some assistant referee not raising the flag, it’s not because he’s making mistakes,” Collina said. “It’s because he’s respected the instruction to keep the flag down. They were told to keep the flag down when there is a tight offside incident and there could be a very promising attack or a goal-scoring opportunity because, if the assistant referee raises the flag, then everything is finished.”

There will then be 13 referees who officiate, exclusively watching the control screens in the video operations room. Collina confirmed the VARs would wear the full kit, identical to their colleagues out on the pitch.

“It’s because they sweat like they do on the pitch,” he said last week. “It’s not like watching a game on the couch while drinking coffee. It’s very stressful so they can’t be dressed like a clerk.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/12/var-world-cup-referees-flag-offsides-pierluigi-collina

--------------------------------------------------

So if it leads to a goal, they will review the offside, but what if it leads to a corner, a free kick, or even a throw-in? All of those could later lead to a goal.

Offline Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,994
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1129 on: June 13, 2018, 08:57:53 am »
What if a player is clean through but the linesman flags and replays show they were onside?

I'm not a fan of VAR at all, but implementing it in this way makes sense. The benefit of the doubt should be with the attacker. So if the linesman is 100% certain of the offside, he should raise his flag. If there's a 1% doubt, he shouldn't. Fair enough to me.
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,994
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1130 on: June 13, 2018, 09:01:27 am »
MOSCOW -- FIFA director of refereeing Massimo Busacca tried to set expectations about the organization's introduction of Video Assistant Referee (VAR) for the 2018 World Cup, telling gathered media not to expect perfection and that certain reviews could potentially take as long as 10 minutes.

Busacca was part of a panel that took part in the Referees Media Briefing held by FIFA at Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium. Pierluigi Collina, the chairman of the FIFA Referees Committee was also in attendance, as were World Cup referees Sandro Ricci and Rashvan Irmatov.

During the briefing it was confirmed that Nestor Pitana of Argentina would referee Thursday's opening match between Russia and Saudi Arabia, with compatriots Juan Pablo Bellatti and Hernan Maidana acting as assistant referees. Ricci will be the fourth official, while Massimiliano Irrati, Mauro Vigliano, Carlos Astroza and Daniele Orsato will serve as VARs.

But the Q&A portion of the briefing soon centered on VAR and its implementation. The 2018 World Cup will mark the first time VAR has been used in the tournament, though it has been used in several leagues around the world as well as select FIFA events, including the 2016 Club World Cup. Collina reiterated that VAR would only be used to review goals and penalty decisions, direct red card decisions, or to clear up cases of mistaken identity.

Busacca later said that it would not be perfect.

"We are looking to have an incredible uniformity and consistency, but don't think that technology solves the problem 100 percent," he said. "In front of a video, you will always have a human person who is making an interpretation. It's not goal-line technology with a vibration. No, it's an interpretation."

Collina insisted that the implementation of VAR would help referees psychologically by giving them the chance to correct mistakes.

"Psychological issues for referees are very important," he said. "It's the main reason why the referee makes the so-called 'on-field review.' Because it would be very, very difficult for someone to change a decision taken on the field of play without knowing what happened. His self-confidence, for the rest of the game, could be heavily affected. That's why we are convinced that having the ref with the possibility to review the incident and change his mind and change his decision would be very helpful in terms of limiting the psychological effects on himself."

He added: "If I see I was wrong and I change my decision, then my mind is free."

Busacca also explained why the VARs would wear the same uniform as thoe referees on the field, even though they'll be in a control center.

"They have to feel the game because they are going to make an interpretation in some situation, so they have to remember they are referees," he said. "What's the best way to remember you are a referee? To wear referee kit."

Collina added: "My officials, they are sweating. Believe me, the stress makes them sweat. It's not possible for them to be dressed like a clerk. They are doing something that is stressful, believe me."

Busacca added that World Cup referees must ensure all the time used for video review is played at the end of each half.

"All the minutes, all the seconds, lost by VAR [video assistant referees] will be added at the end," said Busacca. "We don't want to lose any seconds lost by any interruption."

The process for reviewing one of the most complex incidents that can be reviewed -- a running confrontation involving all players -- will take as long as needed.

"We will take all the possible time to see if there is a clear red card," said Busacca, who was a 2010 World Cup referee. "When it is related to match confrontation and not respecting the image [of football], we can even stay 10 minutes at the video to see exactly what happened."

http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-wor...perfect-but-ready-for-world-cup-fifa-director

You're looking for something that isn't there, as you have been throughout this thread.
The worst part of that article is seeing that VAR will be full kit wanker.
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline BoRed

  • BoRing
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,913
  • BoRac
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1131 on: June 13, 2018, 09:06:09 am »
What if a player is clean through but the linesman flags and replays show they were onside?

I'm not a fan of VAR at all, but implementing it in this way makes sense. The benefit of the doubt should be with the attacker. So if the linesman is 100% certain of the offside, he should raise his flag. If there's a 1% doubt, he shouldn't. Fair enough to me.

I agree, it is the right thing to do, but then they should look at every possible offside decision, and not just those that directly lead to goals.

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,507
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1132 on: June 13, 2018, 10:48:44 am »
They're instructing the linesman to perform their job more poorly. As Bo said, at what point do you go back in time for replays? Is every ball over the top to a striker running the line going to need a ruling made on it (but not by the person on the pitch?)
 
The knock on effects are going to be disastrous, and hilarious. But that's the only way the people who are clouded by bias that assumes 'technology' is a linear improvement are going to learn their error.

As long as it keeps it away from real football (barring the FA cup and league cup which have become and are becoming a farce) I'll be content. Fuck going to the match if it was in every league and CL game though.

Online rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,791
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1133 on: June 13, 2018, 12:08:04 pm »
I agree, it is the right thing to do, but then they should look at every possible offside decision, and not just those that directly lead to goals.

Maybe that is what they will do, so regardless of a goal, if the attacking team wins a free-kick, penalty, throw or corner, then if the VAR refs do their jobs quickly, they should be able to call the offside before play restarts. If the defence clears the ball downfield then leave it alone.

They're instructing the linesman to perform their job more poorly. As Bo said, at what point do you go back in time for replays? Is every ball over the top to a striker running the line going to need a ruling made on it (but not by the person on the pitch?)
 
The knock on effects are going to be disastrous, and hilarious. But that's the only way the people who are clouded by bias that assumes 'technology' is a linear improvement are going to learn their error.

As long as it keeps it away from real football (barring the FA cup and league cup which have become and are becoming a farce) I'll be content. Fuck going to the match if it was in every league and CL game though.

Disagree, I think they are improving their jobs - if they have any doubts, rather than guess, use the technology - just punish linesmen if they over rely on it.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,507
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1134 on: June 13, 2018, 12:12:01 pm »
Disagree, I think they are improving their jobs - if they have any doubts, rather than guess, use the technology - just punish linesmen if they over rely on it.

People train and learn by experience and by rote. On marginal calls, linesman are being told they don't even need to try. How is it going to improve their ability to do their job. It's encouraging complacency

Offline PhaseOfPlay

  • Well red.Tom Jones Lover. AKA Debbie McGee. Apparently.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,289
  • Under 7s Coaching Manual Owner.
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1135 on: June 13, 2018, 12:14:03 pm »
Professional level refs - "If in doubt, don't flag for offside"

Amateur level refs - "If in doubt, make the best possible decision"

It's two different codes, almost.
Better looking than Samie.

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,879
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1136 on: June 13, 2018, 02:03:15 pm »
THE MLS VERSION OF VAR CONTROVERSY
MARCH 21, 2018 BY JASON DAVIS

By Jason Davis – WASHINGTON DC (Mar 21, 2018) US Soccer Players - The biggest story from Week 3 of the 2018 MLS season wasn’t an individual player performance or a dramatic finish. Instead, it was the influence of the Video Assistant Referee on games in three different locations. In all three cases, decisions made using VAR heavily influenced the result of the match.. In these early days of video replay’s use in a sport with a rich history of resistance to change, we've seen a mixed response. The idea of “getting it right” appeals to everyone. The mechanism for doing so not so much.

First, the most clear-cut and least controversial use of VAR, a penalty call in the Real Salt Lake versus New York Red Bulls match on Saturday. In the third minute of a goalless game, RSL defender David Horst and Carlos Rivas wrestled for position on the edge of the penalty area during an Albert Rusnak free kick. Horst went to the ground, prompting referee Ted Unkel to whistle for a foul.

Initially, Unkel pointed to a spot just outside of the box. As players began to move to account for the coming free kick, Unkel paused. At the moment, there was no obvious indication that the VAR was actively reviewing the call. When Unkel gave the hand signal for a review, the somewhat humorous “air box” motion, it became clear that the replay official was taking a look. Unkel immediately pointed to the penalty spot, revealing that VAR had determined the transgression took place inside the 18-yard box. Technically, it started outside of the box and ended inside of it.

Putting aside any question of whether Rivas actually fouled Horst, the whole process took less than a minute. Perhaps because the review centered around a black-and-white issue, Unkel did not need to go to the sideline to take a second look himself. He took the information the VAR provided and adjusted his call accordingly.

From the best use of VAR on the weekend, we turn to two more messy examples of the technology impacting games. Both involve red cards for violent conduct, with one also resulting in a game-changing penalty kick.

In Atlanta, it was also a free kick that let to the reviewable moment. In that case, referee Ismail Elfath didn’t initially blow for a foul when United defender Leandro Gonzalez Pirez fell to the ground after contact with Vancouver defender Kendall Waston. Gonzalez Pirez stayed down for a few moments expressing apparent pain as the ball went out of play. Elfath called for trainers to attend to the Atlanta player, a delay allowing for the intervention of VAR.

The time from when the ball went out of bounds until Elfath pointed to the penalty spot and issued Waston a red card was more than four minutes. An upset Waston extended the stoppage in play by angrily confronting the referee.

The delay was one thing. The actual call itself was another. A fundamental shortcoming of the process is that the referee’s ability to review a call is dependent on the angles available. Elftath’s view of the moment Waston made contact with Gonzalez Pirez was imperfect at best, useless at worst. Looking at the play from behind and watching Gonzalez Pirez react in the manner he did certainly make it appear that a violent act had occurred.

If the call reversed a “clear and obvious error” as required by the VAR guidelines, why did it take Elfath so long to come to a decision?

Since this is the world we live in now, subsequent views of the play included new angles taken from fans in the stands showing that Waston’s arm didn’t move in a particularly violent fashion and that Gonzalez Pirez made the most of the contact. This was more of a “shove”, with a strong player having greater leverage.

It’s not the Elfath was “wrong”, either for failing to call the foul in the first place or for giving a red card after the fact. Based on the available evidence, he made the decision he thought best adhered to the laws of the game.

Clint Dempsey’s VAR-initiated red card in Frisco was similar to Waston’s. While trying to rid himself of the mark of FC Dallas’s Jacori Hayes, Dempsey swatted backward making contact with Hayes. Where exactly that contact occurred on Hayes’s body is not technically germane to the Seattle forward’s ejection. It does play into the visual that referee Chris Penso considered when reviewing the play on the sideline monitor. Hayes doubled over, giving the impression that Dempsey made contact in a sensitive area.

We don’t know what angles Penso viewed, but his decision was swift. Dempsey’s ejection changed the game dramatically for the already-depleted Sounders, who ultimately lost 3-0.

So where does this leave us? In broadest terms, VAR presents a false sense of certainty where none can exist. Video and slow-motion replays may get us closer to “truth” in some circumstances. In a game where so many calls are subjective, the referee’s replay-assisted decisions can hardly get closer to an impossible ideal, the result is controversy heaped on top of controversy. Right now, VAR tends to put us back where we started, eating time and patience in the process.

https://ussoccerplayers.com/2018/03/the-mls-version-of-var-controversy.html
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline Broad Spectrum

  • Antibiotic
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,633
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1137 on: June 13, 2018, 03:01:05 pm »
Professional level refs - "If in doubt, don't flag for offside"

Amateur level refs - "If in doubt, make the best possible decision"

It's two different codes, almost.

I understand your point, but I don't see what the impact is.

College basketball has slight variations on the game than the NBA:

http://www.fiba.basketball/rule-differences

Officials will just become familiar with the slight variations between low-level/amateur football and professional football. The infringements themselves remain the same, however it's just the way in which the call is made that differs. And the reality is, anyone who watches semi-pro or amateur football know they are already working to a slightly different set of rules for calling fouls when you compare it to the elite level, especially the Champions League and World Cup. At the elite level they're all fairly consistent in punishing overly-physical play irrespective of where the ref is from. No more, 'Let him know you're there' type tackles in the first 5 minutes from the centre-halves because you'll be booked for it (unless you're Ramos of course!  :wanker).

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,445
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1138 on: June 14, 2018, 04:01:19 pm »
I see refs have been told not to blow for tight offside decisions. let play continue and they will review if a goal is scored :wellin
Wanted this for years, imo, it's best reason have VAR. p... off with awful offisides ruining matches.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,879
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1139 on: June 14, 2018, 04:06:03 pm »
I see refs have been told not to blow for tight offside decisions. let play continue and they will review if a goal is scored :wellin
Wanted this for years, imo, it's best reason have VAR. p... off with awful offisides ruining matches.

Yeah, can't wait for a player to be half yard offside and his team win a corner.

Then from the corner, the attacking team score. Should have never been taken because of the offside.

But hey ho..lino kept his flag down..




Also fyi..I heard all Ref's and assistants had 6 training sessions on how to call the World Cup and also the use of VAR.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 04:07:55 pm by 4pool »
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,445
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1140 on: June 14, 2018, 04:30:40 pm »
Yeah, can't wait for a player to be half yard offside and his team win a corner.

Then from the corner, the attacking team score. Should have never been taken because of the offside.

But hey ho..lino kept his flag down..




Also fyi..I heard all Ref's and assistants had 6 training sessions on how to call the World Cup and also the use of VAR.
I wonder how many times your example would happen if we introduced VAR compared to how many times we have awful offside decision resulting in a goal or disallowed goal if we carry on as we are. a fraction of the time.
 We could solve the example you give by reviewing every possible offside when the play results in a corner and I haven't got a problem with that as long as VAR decision is taken in seconds, It's finding the right balance to keep the game flowing while keeping costly poor decisions to a minimum.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Online rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,791
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1141 on: June 14, 2018, 05:20:09 pm »
People train and learn by experience and by rote. On marginal calls, linesman are being told they don't even need to try. How is it going to improve their ability to do their job. It's encouraging complacency

Because there are some calls that are far too tight, or the angle wrong, for the lineman to call so they guess/decide based on experience and they are not always correct. Lallana at Spurs a couple of seasons ago, linesman ended up behind play and just guessed/shit himself and decided that Lallana was offside, so raised his flag and the goal was disallowed. If he had let play go, VAR could have established if the decision was correct - his big toe was off, so it was a lucky correct call.

I do expect linesman to catch a clear offside, but a VAR review could still back up the call - Ibrahimovic's equaliser at OT season before last I think, where there was an offside straight after the throw in.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,879
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1142 on: June 14, 2018, 05:54:18 pm »
Considering they've claimed VAR could take up to 10 minutes...yeah let's review as much as possible.

Now we think most VAR reviews will take a matter of a couple minutes.

But when it comes to lino's not flagging and leaving it to VAR...who reviews VAR if they get the decision wrong? It will still be a human deciding the call. Plus the VAR official can communicate with the Ref, have a look  and decide for yourself. Which adds even more time to the review process.

Then there is always camera angles as cameras are in fixed postions and not in line with the last defender. So a reviewer uses best judgement. And of course there is the over imposing of a straight line accross the pitch to help with deciding the call. ( Even though that isn't always correct. And lets not forget the chance of hacking going on by betting syndicates--yeah that will never happen)

And lastly, what happens if there are technical issues? Power outage. Transmission problems to the VAR monitor position? Commmunication problems between VAR and the Ref?

Yeah these are are remote problems. But they will come up and effect matches at some point.

Things are never perfect. But at least in the ground, live play goes on, with live officials who should be in charge of the match and not reliant on outside additional help.


And lasly, getting back to long delays for VAR revues with the VAR time being added to time added on at the end of each half as it should. Just imagine being a match goer and train -plane- coach departures are your concern. because a match might last 10-15-20 minutes longer. So you have to leave early and miss a deciding goal. But feck match goer, it's about getting calls right. It's bad enough tv companies changing dates and kickoff times, now you have another problem to concern yourself with as a match goer.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 05:56:45 pm by 4pool »
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,445
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1143 on: June 14, 2018, 06:29:47 pm »
I agree about VAR taking too long, sounds like people behind the scenes are sat their having some discussion, if the decision is supposed to be clear and obvious then ive no idea why they are taking so long disusing the situation. they need to get their act together. offsides reviews should only take seconds. also reviews start immediately after the incident occurs. so the situation would be they are reviewing while play is ongoing so theres another few seconds saved. I know ive come to a decision practically immediately when it comes to offsides when watching a replay, there really shouldn't be hardly any delay. there maybe exceptions of course when the rules of the game are discussed. thats fair enough, refs and linesman do that now.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Something Worse

  • Master of prehistoric and fantasy creature-based onomatopoeia
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,891
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 07:36:46 pm by Claus »
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

Hey Claus, fuck off.

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,879
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1145 on: June 14, 2018, 07:46:04 pm »
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,284
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1146 on: June 16, 2018, 12:28:27 pm »
Not really interested in the world cup but I was just flicking through the channels and came across the France - Australia game at a crucial moment. The first VAR penalty decision given in the tournament looks to be wrong.  :duh

At least some clown in the French team was nice enough to go to the other end and gift Australia a penalty of their own to even things up.  :)
 
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

Offline sms1986

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,644
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1147 on: June 16, 2018, 12:31:50 pm »
Not really interested in the world cup but I was just flicking through the channels and came across the France - Australia game at a crucial moment. The first VAR penalty decision given in the tournament looks to be wrong.  :duh

At least some clown in the French team was nice enough to go to the other end and gift Australia a penalty of their own to even things up.  :)

It's probably the right decision.

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,578
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1148 on: June 16, 2018, 12:33:16 pm »
It was the right decision. People said the Salah incident was a penalty against brighton but not this one?

Offline Iska

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,136
  • The only club that matters
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1149 on: June 16, 2018, 12:37:17 pm »
I got in just too late to see it, but how did the process work?  I don’t think I’m actually fussed whether it was right or not, I just care about whether it interrupted the game.

Offline sms1986

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,644
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1150 on: June 16, 2018, 12:38:38 pm »
I got in just too late to see it, but how did the process work?  I don’t think I’m actually fussed whether it was right or not, I just care about whether it interrupted the game.

It interrupted the game, but it wasn't for that long, maybe a minute or two at most.

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,284
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1151 on: June 16, 2018, 12:39:20 pm »
It's probably the right decision.
You think?
Not for me. Can't see how the ref is 100% sure there. I'd be gutted if Liverpool had that awarded against us and feel we'd been given a gift if it was given in our favour.

Just shows though, even with VAR, there will still be dispute over decisions.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,284
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1152 on: June 16, 2018, 12:44:13 pm »
Seems I'm in the minority in feeling it wasn't a pen.

Can I just say that the highly respected and esteemed pundit, Lawro, agrees with me. That should clear it up.  ;)
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

Offline Learpholl

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,466
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1153 on: June 16, 2018, 01:10:04 pm »
I mistakenly thought that this decision would shut some VAR skeptics up but never underestimate the will power of someone who hates VAR.

Correct decision for me and I'm glad the referee got a chance to review a game changing moment. VAR didn't force the referee to give the penalty, that was his decision on review. If he doesn't give the penalty is VAR still shite?

Offline TheShanklyGates

  • Firmly in the "shake it all about" camp
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,864
  • Outside The Shankly Gates...
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1154 on: June 16, 2018, 01:29:33 pm »
I mistakenly thought that this decision would shut some VAR skeptics up but never underestimate the will power of someone who hates VAR.

Correct decision for me and I'm glad the referee got a chance to review a game changing moment. VAR didn't force the referee to give the penalty, that was his decision on review. If he doesn't give the penalty is VAR still shite?

Of course it is. Did you hear Phil Neville after the game? No amount of good decisions will change the minds of people who've already decided they don't like it.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,994
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1155 on: June 16, 2018, 01:38:44 pm »
VAR isn't to blame for that decision. The ref made the call, not the VAR. It was the wrong decision to award the penalty. The ref fucked up.
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline classycarra

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,507
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1156 on: June 16, 2018, 01:48:14 pm »
VAR isn't to blame for that decision. The ref made the call, not the VAR. It was the wrong decision to award the penalty. The ref fucked up.

Yeah, that's why VAR isn't good. It's what I've argued anyway. The system isn't, by design, going to clear anything up. It's a system that relies on subjectivity.

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,445
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1157 on: June 16, 2018, 02:17:59 pm »
This is why am not so keen on VAR for penalty's. it's a clear penalty for me but understand how it's a matter of opinion.
Does the defender touch Griezmann.
Yes  I think the defender touched the ball slightly first but Griezmann touched the ball a split second after to bring the ball back under control, the defender then clips Griezmann he falls to the ground.
There is no perfect system when it comes to opinions on fouls etc, ref doesn't give the pen without looking at VAR then people will blame bad refereeing.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline 4pool

  • Mr. ( last name) Minister Of Truth - 1984 to 1984. The first to do a Moyesed. A pore grammarist.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,879
  • Liverpool: European Capital of Football 2005/2006
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1158 on: June 16, 2018, 02:39:48 pm »
In the match thread for the France v Australia match..many thought it wasn't a pen.

Decisions by the Ref are only to be corrected by VAR for clear an obvious mistakes.

VAR would not or should not have changed the refs call for the pen for France because it was not  a clear and obvious mistake.



However, VAR is there to help the Ref with Red card decisions.

For the Australia pen it was a deliberate handball. No card was given. Should a Red card have been given for the handball stopping a goal scoring opportunity?

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=340448.320

Some were wondering why the red card wasn't given.

Was that a clear and obvious mistake by the Ref not to award a Red Card?

We've all seen red cards issued for hand ball pens awarded.

If there should have been a red card issued, then the Ref made a mistake and VAR made a mistake by not clarifying the call.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Online The North Bank

  • Can even make the sun shine in Manchester - once in a blue moon...
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,558
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: POLL: VAR (Video Assistant Referee) - Yay or Nay? Discuss...
« Reply #1159 on: June 16, 2018, 02:47:55 pm »
Not a fan. Causing confusion.