Author Topic: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar  (Read 55262 times)

Offline Giono

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #120 on: October 7, 2018, 04:16:08 pm »
Their demise would be a great side benefit of getting off oil. Them and Russia.
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Offline Ray K

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #121 on: October 10, 2018, 10:57:12 am »
Bet Trump would like to manage the US media the same way.

Saudi journalist 'killed inside consulate' – Turkish sources

Jamal Khashoggi, a critic of Riyadh, had gone to the building in Istanbul seeking documents for his marriage

Martin Chulov - Sat 6 Oct 2018 23.26 BST First published on Sat 6 Oct 2018

Turkish officials believe that missing Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul and his body later driven from the compound.

Authorities say they believe Khashoggi’s death was premeditated and that Saudi officials had travelled to Istanbul from Riyadh after receiving word that the high-profile critic of the current Saudi leadership planned to visit the consulate.

In an evening of quickfire developments, following four days of silence since his disappearance, officials in Ankara pledged to on Sunday release evidence that they say supports claims that the journalist was killed shortly after he entered the consulate to sign divorce papers. The evidence is expected to include video footage and focus on a black car.

Two Turkish officials claimed to Reuters that Khashoggi, 59, had been killed. The Reuters claim was circulated by a government spokesman, and confirmed by numerous other officials, some of whom claimed to have knowledge of how the body had been disposed of. Several officials alleged, without tabling evidence, that Khashoggi had first been tortured.

Officials believe that a team of 15 Saudis arrived on Tuesday to conduct the killing, then left the country soon afterwards.

The president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, is expected to release a statement about the incident on Sunday. Aside from summonsing the Saudi ambassador in Ankara, senior officials had remained mute about the Khashoggi’s fate, leading to speculation that he had been smuggled out of the country with Turkish consent.

The dramatic Turkish claim instead squarely focuses attentions on Riyadh, in particular Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who on Friday denied any knowledge of Khashoggi’s whereabouts. “If he was here, I would know about it,” the 33-year-old heir to the throne told Bloomberg.

“My understanding is, he entered and he got out after a few minutes or one hour,” said Prince Mohammed. “I’m not sure. We are investigating this through the foreign ministry to see exactly what happened at that time.

“We are ready to welcome the Turkish government to go and search our premises. The premises are sovereign territory, but we will allow them to enter and search and do whatever they want to do. If they ask for that, of course, we will allow them.”

Earlier on Saturday, a Saudi official had dismissed claims that Khashoggi was still inside the consulate and said authorities were “very concerned for his safety”.

Khashoggi had been close to the previous Saudi regime, but fled the kingdom a year ago, soon after the new monarch anointed his son, Prince Mohammed, as prince. He subsequently became an outspoken critic of some aspects of the country’s reform programme, especially the clampdown on political freedoms, and intolerance of dissent.

Khashoggi had a regular column for the Washington Post and had also written for the Guardian. He had sought assurances about his safety from Saudi officials before entering the consulate to sign the divorce papers, a necessary step for him to marry his Turkish fiance, who was waiting for him outside.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/06/saudi-journalist-killed-inside-consulate-turkish-sources

WaPo:

Before Khashoggi’s disappearance, U.S. intelligence intercepted communications of Saudi officials discussing a plan to capture him, according to a person familiar with the information. The Saudis wanted to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia and lay hands on him there, this person said. It was not clear whether the Saudis intended to arrest and interrogate Khashoggi or to kill him, or if the United States warned Khashoggi that he was a target, this person said.
***
Trump, naturally, denied this happened and more generally plays dumb on the links between the Trump Crime Syndicate and the MBS Saudi regime.

NYT:
ANKARA, Turkey — Top Turkish security officials have concluded that the Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi was assassinated in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul on orders from the highest levels of the royal court, a senior official said Tuesday.

The official described a quick and complex operation in which Mr. Khashoggi was killed within two hours of his arrival at the consulate by a team of Saudi agents, who dismembered his body with a bone saw they brought for the purpose.

“It is like ‘Pulp Fiction,’” the official said.

Fifteen Saudi agents had arrived on two charter flights last Tuesday, the day Mr. Khashoggi disappeared, the official said.

All 15 left just a few hours later, and Turkey has now identified the roles that most or all of them held in the Saudi government or security services, the official said. One was an autopsy expert, presumably there to help dismember the body, the official said.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #122 on: October 10, 2018, 11:12:23 am »
Middle-eastern embassies often don't really buy into the diplomatic process in the intended way, do they?

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #123 on: October 11, 2018, 08:14:26 am »
Posted this in the Trump thread.

President Trump Raises Economic Concerns Over Halting Saudi Arms Sales as U.S. Probes Journalist's Disappearance

(WASHINGTON) — President Donald Trump says the U.S. is looking into the fate of a Saudi writer missing and feared murdered but expressed reservations over calls to withhold further U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia, warning that such a move “would be hurting us.”

Decades of close U.S.-Saudi relations, which have only intensified under Trump, appeared in jeopardy by the suggestion of a carefully plotted murder of a government critic, Jamal Khashoggi, 59, who disappeared a week ago after entering a Saudi consulate in Turkey. The wealthy former government insider had been living in the U.S. in self-imposed exile.

In an interview Wednesday with “Fox News @ Night,” Trump said he wanted to find out what happened to Khashoggi but appeared reluctant to consider blocking arms sales, citing economic reasons.

“I think that would be hurting us,” Trump said. “We have jobs, we have a lot of things happening in this country. We have a country that’s doing probably better economically than it’s ever done before.”

He continued: “Part of that is what we’re doing with our defense systems and everybody’s wanting them. And frankly I think that that would be a very, very tough pill to swallow for our country. I mean, you’re affecting us and, you know, they’re always quick to jump that way.”

On his first international trip as president, Trump visited Saudi Arabia and announced $110 billion in proposed arms sales. The administration also relies on Saudi support for its Middle East agenda to counter Iranian influence, fight extremism and support an expected peace plan between Israel and the Palestinians.

Earlier Wednesday, Republican Sen. Bob Corker, who as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee has reviewed U.S. intelligence on the case, said it was likely that Khashoggi was killed the day he walked into the consulate. Whatever took place, Corker said, “there was Saudi involvement” and “everything points to them.”

More than 20 Republican and Democratic senators instructed Trump to order an investigation into Khashoggi’s disappearance under legislation that authorizes imposition of sanctions for perpetrators of extrajudicial killings, torture or other gross human rights violations.

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., a longtime critic of the Saudi government, has said he’ll try to force a vote in the Senate blocking U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia. Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said it would be time for the U.S. to rethink its relationship with Saudi Arabia if it turned out Khashoggi was lured to his death by the Saudis.

Khashoggi had gone to the consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2 to get paperwork he needed for his upcoming marriage while his Turkish fiancee waited outside. Turkish authorities have said he was killed by members of an elite Saudi “assassination squad,” an allegation the Saudi government has dismissed.

The Washington Post reported Wednesday evening that U.S. intelligence intercepts outlined a Saudi plan to detain Khashoggi. The Post, citing anonymous U.S. officials familiar with the intelligence, said Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered an operation to lure Khashoggi from his home in Virginia to Saudi Arabia and then detain him.

http://time.com/5421537/trump-saudi-arms-sales-jamal-khashoggi/
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Offline RedSince86

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #124 on: October 11, 2018, 11:24:21 pm »
"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #125 on: October 15, 2018, 08:57:51 am »
Turks and Saudis are discussing this at the highest levels on getting to the bottom of this. Borrowing a tin hat from some of the other punters on here I reckon it will all get swept under the carpet and Turkey will end up with some sort of sweet trade deal with Saudi Arabia.

In a nutshell, it will come down as a rough operation which got out of hand with people who panicked.
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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #126 on: October 15, 2018, 09:05:50 am »
Highly unlikely the Apple Watch story is true. It doesn’t really have those capabilities.

More likely the original article is just not true, or if the Turkish authorities do have recordings then it’s via other means and the watch is a cover.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #127 on: October 15, 2018, 10:51:56 am »
Nothing will happen to them.  They buy too many arms from us and the states, and have too much oil.

Offline Giono

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #128 on: October 15, 2018, 11:19:33 am »
Nothing will happen to them.  They buy too many arms from us and the states, and have too much oil.

They promised Trump to buy arms, but that was prospective sales. Canada is the largest supplier of oil to the US these days. It's not so cut and dry these days. If Trump lets rhis go it will put a spotlight on another government that owns him.
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Offline Ray K

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #129 on: October 15, 2018, 02:37:23 pm »
Trump is talking to reporters on the WH lawn right now and saying repeatedly that the Saudi's are denying killing Khashoggi. He also suggests it could have been "rogue killers" per pooler.


The key question is: Is Donald Trump just monumentally stupid, or does he just think his supporters are?
Insert 'why not both?' gif here I suppose.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #130 on: October 15, 2018, 02:39:02 pm »
The key question is: Is Donald Trump just monumentally stupid, or does he just think his supporters are?
Insert 'why not both?' gif here I suppose.

Yes.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #131 on: October 15, 2018, 02:39:07 pm »
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline sashraf1066

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #132 on: October 15, 2018, 06:15:39 pm »
The Americans can not risk the rath of Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi's could hurt the USA in a number of ways if they choose to retaliate against any sanctions imposed by the US.

1. Install a Russian military base in Saudi Arabia.

2. Reduce oil production and force the oil price higher and send the world in to recession.

3. Stop pricing oil in dollars and so killing the petro dollar.

4. Buying Chinese and Russian arms. Causing the USA to lose approximately $50b a year in arms sales.

That's a lot of leverage. MBS might well be the most powerful man in the world right now.

 

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #133 on: October 15, 2018, 06:19:56 pm »
Trump is talking to reporters on the WH lawn right now and saying repeatedly that the Saudi's are denying killing Khashoggi. He also suggests it could have been "rogue killers" per pooler.


The key question is: Is Donald Trump just monumentally stupid, or does he just think his supporters are?
Insert 'why not both?' gif here I suppose.

There will be a load of people in the government telling him not to fuck Saudi Arabia about.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #134 on: October 15, 2018, 08:44:05 pm »
When you're sitting on the world's largest oil reserves, everyone wants to be your friend.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #135 on: October 15, 2018, 10:16:24 pm »
Jake Tapper@jaketapper
BREAKING — 2 sources tell @clarissaward and @TimListerCNN that the Saudis are preparing a report that will acknowledge Jamal Khashoggi's death was the result of an interrogation that went wrong, one that was intended to lead to his abduction from Turkey.

Jake Tapper@jaketapper
2/ One source: report will likely conclude that the operation was carried out without clearance and transparency and that those involved will be held responsible. One source: report is still being prepared and cautioned that things could change.

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #136 on: October 15, 2018, 10:25:56 pm »
I picked this yesterday. The Turks have been holding back the evidence as a bargaining chip with the Saudi's for some sort of sweet deal. There'll be a couple of low level intelligence officials who'll be dragged out in front of the media. They'll be imprisoned and their families compensated and pressured into keeping quiet on all this.

If the mainstream media let go of this then they're really letting one of their own down. This is everything that Trump has been ramping up to his supporters with the media being the enemy of the people. The Washington Posy who Khasoggi was an employee need to live up their motto of making sure that we prevent 'Democracy Dies in Darkness".

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #137 on: October 15, 2018, 10:55:13 pm »
They even used the tourist excuse.
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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #138 on: October 15, 2018, 11:37:24 pm »
When you're sitting on the world's largest oil reserves, everyone wants to be your friend.
Thats Venezuela.

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #139 on: October 16, 2018, 12:03:15 am »
When you're sitting on the world's 2nd largest oil reserves, everyone wants to be your friend.

They even got off scot-free over 911 so fuck all will happen over this.


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Offline Giono

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #140 on: October 16, 2018, 01:53:18 am »
When you're sitting on the world's largest oil reserves, everyone wants to be your friend.

I think that Venezuela and Canada might rival them. A lot of that is in oil sands, but the higher the price...the more that stuff makes sense. In terms of cost, SA is the cheapest to extract. But if they up the price...other production will come on line. plus other forms of energy is at a cost point that will make more sense.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #141 on: October 16, 2018, 07:22:20 am »
I think that Venezuela and Canada might rival them. A lot of that is in oil sands, but the higher the price...the more that stuff makes sense. In terms of cost, SA is the cheapest to extract. But if they up the price...other production will come on line. plus other forms of energy is at a cost point that will make more sense.

They have the second largest reserves in the world and are the largest exporter of oil.  Anyone who is trying to argue the insignificance of Saudy Arabia in the global energy (oil) market is wrong.

You'll see how unimportant they are by the reactions of the US and UK governments.

Offline Caligula?

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #142 on: October 16, 2018, 07:42:28 am »
As mentioned above, they had a huge role to play in 9/11 and the square root of fuck all happened, under two administrations. Remember when Obama vetoed a bill that would have allowed the 9/11 families to sue them? Congress did override his veto but the Republicans were outraged, Trump was bombastic and frothing at the mouth during the campaign and I'm sure he must have said something along the lines that he'd never let them get away with it like Obama did, etc etc. And then what happened? He becomes President, goes to Saudi Arabia and does a sword dance and it's all water under the bridge.

Don't hold your breath over this one.

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #143 on: October 16, 2018, 08:45:07 am »
Waiting for the 'he slipped on some kunafeh that was on the marble floor and hit his head on the edge of the desk which resulted in his sudden death. In islamic tradition he was buried as quickly after his death and we had to cut him up into little pieces to get his remains into the diplomatic pouch.'

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Offline Ray K

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #144 on: October 16, 2018, 09:23:49 am »
Waiting for the 'he slipped on some kunafeh that was on the marble floor and hit his head on the edge of the desk which resulted in his sudden death. In islamic tradition he was buried as quickly after his death and we had to cut him up into little pieces to get his remains into the diplomatic pouch.'



'We always fly in a forensic pathologist with bone saws and 14 other guys to help just in case of such eventualities. Thank goodness they were on hand after he accidentally brutally cut his head off while clipping his toenails'.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #145 on: October 16, 2018, 10:01:23 am »
'We always fly in a forensic pathologist with bone saws and 14 other guys to help just in case of such eventualities. Thank goodness they were on hand after he accidentally brutally cut his head off while clipping his toenails'.

If they come out with the 'interrogation that went wrong' excuse, can someone ask why you need to interrogate a journalist?
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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #146 on: October 16, 2018, 10:22:42 am »
Savages - supported by savages.
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #147 on: October 16, 2018, 11:09:17 am »
If they come out with the 'interrogation that went wrong' excuse, can someone ask why you need to interrogate a journalist?
Sure. Anyone could ask.
Saudi will simply refuse to answer. Or Ignore. Or if you press for an answer, they will give you a big golden middle finger engraved with a diamond worded FUCK OFF.

Unless there exists a situation where they are dependent on other countries, they hold the leverage. I dont see this changing anywhere in the next 50 years at the minimum. And by then, they would have had something else that the world will depend on them for. Take Dubai for example. 40 years ago, they were a nothing city. Hell not even a village. As the oil in the neighbourhood depleted, they veered away from oil dependency and created almost everything that is not oil dependent. Saudi is trying to do the same with scientific R&D in the middle east.

https://rdo.moe.gov.sa/ar/Documents/RD_Overview_English.pdf

Back to the point. Political killings have always existed to send out a message and intimidate journalists from being too critical of an administration. Its pathetic and plainly wrong. But thats how it is.

Offline Giono

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #148 on: October 16, 2018, 11:18:15 am »

They have the second largest reserves in the world and are the largest exporter of oil.  Anyone who is trying to argue the insignificance of Saudy Arabia in the global energy (oil) market is wrong.

You'll see how unimportant they are by the reactions of the US and UK governments.


People will do anything for a buck. The UK or US are no exceptions.

But charting out that this means that "daddy made me dictator" is the most powerful man on earth is a stretch. Him, Putin, Maduro, Iran are all examples of why the world needs to get off oil and starve these guys into oblivion.
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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #149 on: October 16, 2018, 01:30:02 pm »
The Americans can not risk the rath of Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi's could hurt the USA in a number of ways if they choose to retaliate against any sanctions imposed by the US.

1. Install a Russian military base in Saudi Arabia.

2. Reduce oil production and force the oil price higher and send the world in to recession.

3. Stop pricing oil in dollars and so killing the petro dollar.

4. Buying Chinese and Russian arms. Causing the USA to lose approximately $50b a year in arms sales.

That's a lot of leverage. MBS might well be the most powerful man in the world right now.


There is a Cold War taking place in the Middle East which on the face of it is a sectarian conflict between Sunni/Wahhabist and Shia, but is really geo-political and at its heart it's about - predictably - money and oil.

Iran is allied with Russia and made substantial populist gains in terms of influence in the region, taking advantage of the Iraq debacle. The Saudis responded by fostering a proxy militia, which they soon lost control of (IS) and then fomenting the civil war in Syria - another allied to Iran, and with strategic importance for oil transportation plans by both 'sides'. The US is allied to SA and is keen to reduce influence in the region by Tehran. Yemen is a hot conflict between the two sides, with Iran assisting those who seized control of the country, and SA murdering tens of thousands of Yemeni kids and women in response.

The US and UK governments have kept their condemnation of the Saudi regime limited, and the media of those two countries has been mostly quiet (with honourable exceptions), but this murder of the journalist by the Saudis has shone an albeit weak spotlight onto the depravity of the Saudi arsewipes.

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Offline Ray K

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #150 on: October 17, 2018, 02:07:09 pm »
Savages - supported by savages.

Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, has landed in Ankara for crisis talks with the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, over the journalist Jamal Khashoggi as officials leaked gory details of what they claim was his murder in the Saudi consulate.

The dissident journalist was killed minutes after he arrived at the building to pick up marriage paperwork on 2 October, according to US and Turkish press reports of what the officials say are audio recordings that prove he was beaten and drugged, then brutally killed and dismembered.

The US president, Donald Trump, on Tuesday defended Saudi Arabia in the face of mounting allegations that Riyadh was involved in the Saudi journalist’s alleged killing.

The Wall Street Journal, citing Turkish official who had heard the recording, said Khashoggi was allegedly killed and dismembered in the office of the Saudi consul general, Mohammad al-Otaibi, who was in the room at the time. A voice on the recording can be heard inviting him to leave, the report said.

Forensics expert Salah Muhammad al-Tubaigy is reportedly heard putting on headphones to listen to music as he begins to dismember the body, and encouraging other people in the room to do the same.

According to Middle East Eye, Khashoggi was dragged from the office to Otaibi’s study next door, where Tubaigy began cutting up his body on a table while he was still alive.


On Tuesday, the New York Times reported that four of the men identified by Turkish media as part of a 15-man hit squad sent from Riyadh to silence Khashoggi were members of Bin Salman’s personal security detail. Another, the forensics doctor al-Tubaigy, holds a senior position in the Saudi interior ministry.

The suspects’ direct links to the Saudi establishment weakens the suggestion made by Trump that the hit could have been carried out by “rogue killers” in an unauthorised operation.

Investigators believe Khashoggi’s body was then taken to the consul general’s house nearby, where it was disposed of.

Police set up barricades outside the consul general’s residence on Tuesday evening in order to carry out a planned search of the premises, but Turkey is waiting for a joint agreement with the Saudis to search the residence. Under the Vienna convention, diplomatic missions are considered foreign soil.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/17/jamal-khashoggi-pompeo-to-meet-erdogan-as-gory-reports-of-killing-emerge

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Find it hard to believe a country that still crucifies 'criminals' would engage in this behaviour, but that's just me.
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Offline drmick

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #151 on: October 17, 2018, 05:39:30 pm »
Dismembering him while still alive sounds very gruesome, but I wonder if it really is true.  The blood splatter while the heart is still beating would be significant, not to mention the risk of screams being detected unless he was completely anaesthetised.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #152 on: October 17, 2018, 07:51:43 pm »
Dismembering him while still alive sounds very gruesome, but I wonder if it really is true.  The blood splatter while the heart is still beating would be significant, not to mention the risk of screams being detected unless he was completely anaesthetised.

Well they are pretty expert at decapitating people during public executions so nothing would surprise me.

Offline drmick

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #153 on: October 17, 2018, 07:54:51 pm »
But in the main office or board room?  Everybody knows body dismembering requires a basement, or lots of plastic sheeting!

I was wondering if the Turks could surveil paint tins entering the embassy? It's not quite the sort of stuff you would keep enough in house of for a complete re-model.....

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #154 on: October 17, 2018, 09:41:33 pm »
I'll always maintain that Iran's human rights record is appalling, government corrupt and evil.

However, for Trump's administration to keep repeating the comic line of them being "The no.1 sponsors of terrorism" is why I have long stopped listening to our governments when they tell us who the bad guys are.

These c*nts have sponsored every mad and radical madrassa in Pakistan to give rise to the Taliban, one of their own founded Al Qa'eda, a number of their nationals drove two planes into the WTC, they have sponsored and funded Al Nusra, and IS.

They have silenced dissidents like Nimr Baqir al-Nimr long before Khashoggi, bombed (and continue to bomb) civilians in Yemen causing a humanitarian disaster that aid workers on the BBC directly attributed to Saudi coalition led bombings of civilians.

Is it surprising to see that dancing c*nt May and that orange oaf being rather quiet when they're busy getting arms contracts signed?

Offline Giono

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #155 on: October 17, 2018, 11:46:54 pm »
Dismembering him while still alive sounds very gruesome, but I wonder if it really is true.  The blood splatter while the heart is still beating would be significant, not to mention the risk of screams being detected unless he was completely anaesthetised.

Your point may be valid, but holy _-_-_ . What has this world come to that we are discussing this on a footy forum.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #156 on: October 18, 2018, 02:43:16 am »
It's international break time, human dismemberment is as good a topic as any.

Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #157 on: October 18, 2018, 03:22:56 am »

The Jamal Khashoggi Case: Suspects Had Ties to Saudi Crown Prince
By David D. Kirkpatrick, Malachy Browne, Ben Hubbard and David Botti


ISTANBUL — One of the suspects identified by Turkey in the disappearance of the Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi was a frequent companion of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman — seen disembarking from airplanes with him in Paris and Madrid and photographed standing guard during his visits this year to Houston, Boston and the United Nations.

Three others are linked by witnesses and other records to the Saudi crown prince’s security detail.

A fifth is a forensic doctor who holds senior positions in the Saudi Interior Ministry and medical establishment, a figure of such stature that he could be directed only by a high-ranking Saudi authority.

If, as the Turkish authorities say, these men were present at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul where Mr. Khashoggi disappeared on Oct. 2, they might provide a direct link between what happened and Prince Mohammed. That would undercut any suggestion that Mr. Khashoggi died in a rogue operation unsanctioned by the crown prince. Their connection to him could also make it more difficult for the White House and Congress to accept such an explanation.

The New York Times has confirmed independently that at least nine of 15 suspects identified by Turkish authorities worked for the Saudi security services, military or other government ministries. One of them, Maher Abdulaziz Mutreb, was a diplomat assigned to the Saudi Embassy in London in 2007, according to a British diplomatic roster. He traveled extensively with the crown prince, perhaps as a bodyguard.

How much blame for Mr. Khashoggi’s disappearance or death settles on the 33-year-old crown prince has become a decisive factor in his standing in the eyes of the West and within the royal family.

The prince has presented himself as a reformer intent on opening up the kingdom’s economy and culture, and has used that image to try to influence White House policy in the region and to woo Western investors to help diversify the Saudi economy.

But the international revulsion at the reported assassination and mutilation of a single newspaper columnist — Mr. Khashoggi, who wrote for The Washington Post — has already sullied that image far more than previous missteps by the crown prince, from miring his country in a catastrophic war in Yemen to kidnapping the prime minister of Lebanon.

The crown prince and his father, King Salman, have denied any knowledge of Mr. Khashoggi’s whereabouts, repeatedly asserting that he left the consulate freely. Saudi officials did not respond to requests for comment for this article.

But in the last few days, as major American businesses have withdrawn from a marquee investment conference in Riyadh and members of Congress have stepped up calls for sanctions, the United States, Turkey and Saudi Arabia appear to have been searching for a face-saving way out.

The royal court was expected to acknowledge that Mr. Khashoggi was killed in the consulate, and to blame an intelligence agent for botching an operation to interrogate Mr. Khashoggi that ended up killing him.

President Trump floated the possibility on Monday that Mr. Khashoggi was the victim of “rogue killers.”

But such explanations would run up against a host of hard-to-explain obstacles.

The suspects’ positions in the Saudi government and their links to the crown prince could make it more difficult to absolve him of responsibility.

The presence of a forensic doctor who specializes in autopsies suggests the operation may have had a lethal intent from the start.

Turkish officials have said they possess evidence that the 15 Saudi agents flew into Istanbul on Oct. 2, assassinated Mr. Khashoggi, dismembered his body with a bone saw they had brought for the purpose, and flew out the same day. Records show that two private jets chartered by a Saudi company with close ties to the Saudi crown prince and Interior Ministry arrived and left Istanbul on the day of Mr. Khashoggi’s disappearance.

Turkish officials said Mr. Khashoggi was killed within two hours of his arrival at the consulate. That timeline would not have allowed much time for an interrogation to go awry.

The Times gathered more information about the suspects using facial recognition, publicly available records, social media profiles, a database of Saudi cellphone numbers, Saudi news reports, leaked Saudi government documents and in some cases the accounts of witnesses in Saudi Arabia and countries the crown prince has visited.

Mr. Mutreb, the former diplomat in London, was photographed emerging from airplanes with Prince Mohammed on recent trips to Madrid and Paris. He was also photographed in Houston, Boston and the United Nations during the crown prince’s visits there, often glowering as he surveyed a crowd.

A French professional who has worked with the Saudi royal family identified a second suspect, Abdulaziz Mohammed al-Hawsawi, as a member of the security team that travels with the crown prince.

A Saudi news outlet reported that someone with the same name as a third suspect, Thaar Ghaleb al-Harbi, was promoted last year to the rank of lieutenant in the Saudi royal guard for bravery in the defense of Prince Mohammed’s palace in Jeddah.

A fourth suspect traveled with a passport bearing the name of another member of the royal guard, Muhammed Saad Alzahrani. A search of the name in Menom3ay, an app popular in Saudi Arabia that allows users to see the names other users have associated with certain phone numbers, identified him as a member of the royal guard. A guard wearing a name tag with that name appears in a video from 2017 standing next to Prince Mohammed.

Members of the royal guard or aides who traveled with the crown prince may not report directly to him and may sometimes take on other duties. It is possible that some could have been recruited for an expedition to capture or interrogate Mr. Khashoggi, perhaps led by a senior intelligence official. But the presence among the suspects of an autopsy expert, Dr. Salah al-Tubaigy, suggests that killing might have been part of the original plan.

Dr. Tubaigy, who maintained a presence on several social media platforms, identified himself on his Twitter account as the head of the Saudi Scientific Council of Forensics and held lofty positions in the kingdom’s premier medical school as well as in its Interior Ministry. He studied at the University of Glasgow and in 2015 he spent three months in Australia as a visiting forensic pathologist at the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine. His published writings include works on dissection and mobile autopsies.

Although there is no public record of a relationship between him and the royal court, such a senior figure in the Saudi medical establishment was unlikely to join a rogue expedition organized by an underling.

Dr. Tubaigy, whose name first appeared among reports of the suspects several days ago, has not publicly addressed the allegations. None of the suspects could be reached for comment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/16/world/middleeast/khashoggi-saudi-prince.html


4 photos of the accused in the bolded section can be seen in the link.

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #158 on: October 18, 2018, 04:37:12 am »
These c*nts have sponsored every mad and radical madrassa in Pakistan to give rise to the Taliban, one of their own founded Al Qa'eda, a number of their nationals drove two planes into the WTC, they have sponsored and funded Al Nusra, and IS.

They have silenced dissidents like Nimr Baqir al-Nimr long before Khashoggi, bombed (and continue to bomb) civilians in Yemen causing a humanitarian disaster that aid workers on the BBC directly attributed to Saudi coalition led bombings of civilians.

We should be disgusted that our country is allied to such a regime, but what puzzles me is why this Khashoggi case has become headline news when all these things you mention have mostly been buried. Why now?
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Offline Giono

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Re: Saudi Arabia has severed ties with Qatar
« Reply #159 on: October 18, 2018, 05:22:56 am »
We should be disgusted that our country is allied to such a regime, but what puzzles me is why this Khashoggi case has become headline news when all these things you mention have mostly been buried. Why now?

He was a Washington Post writer and that is why he was killed. That is why the globalmedia is fixated on this atrocity.
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