Author Topic: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants  (Read 13174 times)

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2014, 08:13:43 am »
Vice did a piece as well.
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Safe to say its best that this tribe is just left alone, if it needs to be studied for purposes of Anthropology etc, hopefully its done carefully. I know that in India, it won't take long for them to suffer the same fate as Jarawa tribe and become tourist attraction once they are contacted properly. 

Mate, while I might have sounded like I wanted for them to be left alone, I actually think that the decision has to lie with the tribe. Should members of the tribe decide to come forward and 'integrate' into society, then I think governments have a responsibility to integrate them. Obviously, that is going to be a massive challenge what with their lack of immunity to diseases for one thing. However, should they decide to integrate, they should be helped. However, the Jarawa haven't exactly come out to integrate with society. Its more a case of wanker tourists (some, not all) that throw them biscuits for a song and the Jarawa know that hanging out by the road can get them sweets. This obviously destroys their way of life and that's been the issue.

That said, the thing that concerns me is not the official policy that exists which is quite alright. Its the inefficiency with which these policies are enacted on the ground level that does concern me. The Guardian is true and so is the Vice documentary in that there are people that will accept a small bribe and drive you past the area and show you around. How do you account for that though ? In any case, I think any thoroughfare on the highway is now banned I think. Lets see what happens now. I really appreciated Kochevnik's post on the previous page since its a really tricky situation for all concerned.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2014, 08:51:56 am »
Not an image of the islanders but it could explain their continued, angry rebuffs towards "civilisation" ;)

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2014, 09:42:12 am »
Not an image of the islanders but it could explain their continued, angry rebuffs towards "civilisation" ;)



To be fair,  apart from external debt, junk food, bombs and pollution, all of those things possibly (or even likely) exist on the island, we just don't know anything about them.

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2014, 04:42:01 pm »
Awesome thread.

Now i'm fascinated by them.
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Offline Kochevnik

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2014, 12:17:24 pm »
Not an image of the islanders but it could explain their continued, angry rebuffs towards "civilisation" ;)



The "noble savage" myth is so pervasive and yet so, soooo wrong.

No bombs?  Sure, but you have to remember that means no medicine and no understanding of where disease even comes from, so these people are left in terrible fear of spirits that can come and kill one of their children on a whim.  That's literally what animist (and I have yet to hear a report of a primitive tribe in the world that isn't animist) people believe.  It's a terrifying, terrifying worldview and they live in constant fear.

Plus the "no poverty" thing is kind of a joke.  Even the poorest person in Mozambique or Haiti probably has 10 times the wealth in absolute terms.  The people I grew up among usually had a hammock, a bow and some arrows, and maybe a couple of sharp rocks as their only possessions.  Their average life expectancy was about 45 and their lives were, to borrow a phrase, "nasty, brutish, and short."  Not a fun way to live, let me assure you.
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Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2014, 03:39:30 pm »
I saw the title to this and just assumed it was a joke about Britain.

This has been a really interesting read.

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2014, 08:08:43 am »
The "noble savage" myth is so pervasive and yet so, soooo wrong.

No bombs?  Sure, but you have to remember that means no medicine and no understanding of where disease even comes from, so these people are left in terrible fear of spirits that can come and kill one of their children on a whim.  That's literally what animist (and I have yet to hear a report of a primitive tribe in the world that isn't animist) people believe.  It's a terrifying, terrifying worldview and they live in constant fear.

Plus the "no poverty" thing is kind of a joke.  Even the poorest person in Mozambique or Haiti probably has 10 times the wealth in absolute terms.  The people I grew up among usually had a hammock, a bow and some arrows, and maybe a couple of sharp rocks as their only possessions.  Their average life expectancy was about 45 and their lives were, to borrow a phrase, "nasty, brutish, and short."  Not a fun way to live, let me assure you.

They managed without our medicine for centuries, gathering what they needed from plants etc.  A far cry from our money making pharmaceutical corporations who jealously cling to their patents and squeeze millions out of health systems.

And yes it might seem horrible by our standards but then by our standards it's okay to militarise police and execute people who give the wrong look or gesture at the wrong time.  Everything's relative.

Who needs wealth?  Who creates this desire?  They have no concept of wealth.  Living till 45 in their environment means living until you're biologically no longer needed.  If we want to describe it as brutish and short, well go back a hundred years to Victorian England.

It's not a fun way to live by our standards certainly, us who attach so much importance to creature comforts, disposable income, careers etc but rather than say they know no better, it's better to say they know no different.  I don't regard them as 'noble' savages, but I don't even regard them as savages.  They're just living the life they've always known and don't want anybody to mess with it.  I wouldn't swap my life for theirs certainly but it's not for us to say what's good or bad about their existence.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2014, 09:04:50 am »
There's an paper called 'Lost Island of the Savages' by an academic called Adam Goodheart, published in 2000. It's almost impossible to find, but my fascination with this place drove me to extreme lengths of research, and I have a pdf. PM me your email address if you're interested. :wave

Offline Kochevnik

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2014, 10:45:56 am »
...

There's just so much wrong with this ...

Listen, I know you have never met anyone in this situation and are very unlikely to ever do so, but I grew up among people exactly like this.  You are projecting so much of your distaste for Western society (which is very well-founded, our society has LOTS of massive problems) on these people.

They managed without our medicine for centuries, gathering what they needed from plants etc.  A far cry from our money making pharmaceutical corporations who jealously cling to their patents and squeeze millions out of health systems.

They "managed"?  All they managed to do was die.  If a tribal person gets a small cut that gets infected or breaks a bone in the jungle, they're almost certainly going to die.  A bite from a malaria-carrying mosquito or a snakebite is a death sentence.  They don't "gather what they need from plants."  They have a few rudimentary medicines from plants, a lot of placebos and a few hallucinogens.  That's the sum total of their medical knowledge.  They don't do anything close to "managing" and when introduced to Western medicine they basically view it as incredibly wonderful and powerful magic.

Who needs wealth?  Who creates this desire?  They have no concept of wealth.  Living till 45 in their environment means living until you're biologically no longer needed.  If we want to describe it as brutish and short, well go back a hundred years to Victorian England.

I don't even know how to respond to this.  These are people you're talking about, you know that, right?  What if someone told you "well, you're not biologically needed any more, so you might as well die"?  If you're not over the age of 45 imagine someone telling you that your parents deserve to die because they're not "needed." 

Also, you compare it to Victorian England as if you might actually want to return to that era, which I assume you don't.

It's not a fun way to live by our standards certainly, us who attach so much importance to creature comforts, disposable income, careers etc but rather than say they know no better, it's better to say they know no different.  I don't regard them as 'noble' savages, but I don't even regard them as savages.  They're just living the life they've always known and don't want anybody to mess with it.  I wouldn't swap my life for theirs certainly but it's not for us to say what's good or bad about their existence.

Well, there's one part of this I can agree with - it IS for them to say what's good or bad about their existence, and I have never heard of a people group that wanted to go back to their primitive lifestyle after coming out of the jungle.  There are massive disadvantages, to be sure, but one of the most common things you'll hear from aboriginal people in South America is that they don't want to be seen as "zoo animals" by the anthropologists who come to study their culture (and who typically encourage them to remain as "uncivilised," though I prefer the term "unadapted to modern civilisation" as possible).  They want to have a better life, and I've never met a tribal person who didn't see modern life as better than the one he lived in the jungle. 

ESPECIALLY the women, for them it's not even close as they go from being raped on a regular basis and worked like a slave to having some semblance of a say in what happens to them.  If you told the women from the tribe where I grew up that they should go back to their previous nomadic lives because back then they "didn't know any different" and no one should have "messed with them" they would laugh in your face.
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Offline kirkbywool

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2014, 11:21:12 pm »
I guess that is sleep going away for a few hours then as I won't be able to stop reading stuff about these people now. Thanks for the links. Didn't an undiscovered tribe make contact the other week though with the 'outside' world due to problems with logging companies, sure I read that on the news.

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2014, 06:47:40 pm »
Not an image of the islanders but it could explain their continued, angry rebuffs towards "civilisation" ;)


I don't know anything about the people in the picture, so maybe these things are correct about them. But in general, the only things they are very unlikely to have are bombs. Pollution they probably have from the rest of the world. Everything else surely depends on their culture. If they have homes, and can be excluded from them, they will have homelessness. If they have some concept of property, they can be poor or in debt. If they have laws, they will have crime. They might have prisons to deal with those accused of crime. And I don't think anyone ever has a life without some form of stress.


As for the Sentinelese, really it should be up to them to decide if, when, and to what degree they want to join the rest of the world. The problem is just that to make an educated choice, they would need to have some knowledge about the rest of the world. Though they might have, it's hard to know. In reality, someone else is going to make that choice for them. If they are lucky it will be well-meaning, cultural sensitive people who will bring educational programmes and medical facilities, before others will try to make money from them and their land.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #51 on: September 1, 2014, 10:55:27 pm »
Just leave them alone, if you want to study them then I suggest you go out for a night with Wayne Rooney.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2018, 01:51:37 pm »
Still Angry then!!!

https://news.sky.com/story/us-man-killed-by-tribe-after-ignoring-ban-on-visiting-remote-north-sentinel-island-11559343?fbclid=IwAR10MFss3-EvFXtILlKwozmXjlEnw5abwgonTSD8j_H1yDZUIEtUawqkpEQ


An American man who ignored advice to stay away from an island where the indigenous people are protected has been killed by its inhabitants.
The 27-year-old died on North Sentinel island, part of the India-controlled Andaman Islands in the Bay of Bengal.
The islanders are one of the few tribes completely cut off from the rest of the world and are known to fire at outsiders with bows and arrows.
Indian police officials confirmed the death and said seven fishermen who allegedly aided the visit had been arrested.

The man killed has been identified as John Allen Chau.

One of the police officials - speaking anonymously to Reuters - said Mr Chau had hired a fishing dinghy to get close to the island, before changing to a canoe.
Indian media reports said he was on an "adventure trip" and that his body had been found by the fishermen.
But local police officer Vijay Singh told the AP news agency that police were still in the process of recovering the body.
North Sentinel is protected and not open to tourists - who also have to apply for a permit to visit the Andaman and Nicobar Islands if they are foreigners.
The Sentinelese are said to be at risk of death if they have contact with outsiders as they have no immunity to common diseases like flu and measles.
Estimates as to the number of tribespeople who survive vary from 200 to as low as 40.

The US consulate in Chennai, on the Indian mainland, said it was aware of the reports of the death but a spokeswoman declined to comment further.
Police officials said a murder case had been registered.
Two Indian fishermen were killed on the island in 2006 when their boat broke loose and drifted onto the shore - but no action was reportedly taken in that case.
Poachers are also known to fish illegally in the waters around the island, catching turtles and diving for lobsters and sea cucumbers.
Stephen Corry, director of Survival International, which campaigns on behalf of indigenous people, said: "This tragedy should never have been allowed to happen.
"The Indian authorities should have been enforcing the protection of the Sentinelese and their island for the safety of both the tribe and outsiders.
"Instead, a few months ago the authorities lifted one of the restrictions that had been protecting the Sentinelese tribe's island from foreign tourists, which sent exactly the wrong message, and may have contributed to this terrible event.
"It's not impossible that the Sentinelese have just been infected by deadly pathogens to which they have no immunity, with the potential to wipe out the entire tribe.

"The Sentinelese have shown again and again that they want to be left alone, and their wishes should be respected.

"The British colonial occupation of the Andaman Islands decimated the tribes living there, wiping out thousands of tribespeople, and only a fraction of the original population now survive. So the Sentinelese fear of outsiders is very understandable."
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 01:53:16 pm by djphal »

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2018, 02:25:56 pm »
I assumed this was another Brexit thread.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2018, 02:32:55 pm »
I assumed this was another Brexit thread.

Chuckled at that.

Offline Ray K

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2018, 02:35:08 pm »
At least he's in heaven now, so it's a win-win all round basically.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2018, 02:35:41 pm »
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2018, 03:37:09 pm »
I assumed this was another Brexit thread.

Brilliant!
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2018, 03:39:08 pm »
Actually thought it was about Martin O’Neill....
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2018, 03:42:11 pm »
Should've taken the warning.


Quote
"According to the fishermen, they used a wooden boat fitted with motors to travel to the island on November 15," Pathak said.

"The boat stopped 500-700 meters (1,640 - 2,300 ft) away from the island and (the American missionary) used a canoe to reach the shore of the island. He came back later that day with arrow injuries. On the 16th, the (tribespeople) broke his canoe.

"So he came back to the boat swimming. He did not come back on the 17th; the fishermen later saw the tribespeople dragging his body around."


Fingers crossed that the twat didn't have a cold or any other nasties.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2018, 03:43:29 pm »
They just need Jesus in their lives to welcome immigrants and foreigners to the island... *looks at the GOP.

Wait nevermind.

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2018, 03:48:12 pm »
Should've taken the warning.



Fingers crossed that the twat didn't have a cold or any other nasties.

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2018, 03:49:16 pm »
When i saw the thread title i knew it was that island.

I've seen a documentary on the inhabitants and island and they are so isolated from the modern world and have killed quite a few trespassers mainly escaped convicts who landed on the wrong island during British rule in that region.

There is a footage of some scientists on a boat with cameras zoomed in on them and the inhabitants throwing spears at them.

They don't look like Sub Continant people,i think it's been reported the inhabitants came from Africa during the ice age 50000 years ago and settled there.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2018, 05:55:17 pm »
I remember hearing about a little island near Australia where the locals endured a forced eviction So mining companies could take all the Phosphates to be used in fertilizer. I cant remember the details but the islands average height above sea level had been greatly reduced and hills had been leveled. It brings a whole new dimension to the term Stealing Land. 
Looking at North sentinel from Google earth it seems to be full of Trees (timber)and vegetation, so I reckon there will be a large amount Phosphates and other minerals just waiting for some unscrupulous bastards to ethnically cleanse the people and rape the island.
 

Four years late, but I think you mean Nauru.

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http://thedollop.libsyn.com/349-nauru-live-in-adelaide-w-gen-fricker
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2018, 06:21:25 pm »
When i saw the thread title i knew it was that island.

I've seen a documentary on the inhabitants and island and they are so isolated from the modern world and have killed quite a few trespassers mainly escaped convicts who landed on the wrong island during British rule in that region.

There is a footage of some scientists on a boat with cameras zoomed in on them and the inhabitants throwing spears at them.

They don't look like Sub Continant people,i think it's been reported the inhabitants came from Africa during the ice age 50000 years ago and settled there.

Yeah i watched something about that, and genetically they are related to Ainu people, the Indigenous people of Japan.
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2018, 06:25:13 pm »
I assumed this was another Brexit thread.

 :D

It's not hard to imagine people from Stoke throwing sticks at helicopters.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2018, 07:05:00 pm »
:D

It's not hard to imagine people from Stoke throwing sticks at helicopters.


;D
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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2018, 09:54:52 pm »
Why don't they just put up signs. NO COLD CALLERS PLEASE.
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Offline Cu Chulainn

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2018, 03:03:24 am »
It's sad for his family that he's dead but he should never have gone to that island in the first place; it belongs to the native people and they want to be left alone, so leave them. And really... what did he expect to happen? I remember reading somewhere that the language the people on that island speak is unintelligible even to people from nearby islands. Did this guy think the Sentinelese speak English or something!? There's literally no way of speaking to them (even if you could land on the island without being speared on sight). No idea what he hoped to achieve. Hopefully he didn't infect the islanders with any pathogens.

Offline Chakan

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2018, 03:05:21 am »
The world lost a moron boo hoo

Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2018, 05:58:10 am »
'Uncontacted' tribes should be left alone if they desire no contact with outsiders. Its their right and people like this idiot have no business trying to violate them.

Hope some of the arseholes poaching turtles and destroying marine habitats around the island are greeted by poison tipped spears.
Phuk yoo

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2018, 06:52:16 am »
'Uncontacted' tribes should be left alone if they desire no contact with outsiders. Its their right and people like this idiot have no business trying to violate them.
yup, why anyone thinks it’s a good idea to try to reason with people who go at outsiders with spears is beyond me

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2018, 07:50:48 am »
Quote
On Wednesday night Chau’s family posted on his Instagram page saying that they forgave his killers and asked that those who helped him be released. The family described him as a “beloved son, brother and uncle” as well as a Christian missionary. “He loved God, life, helping those in need and had nothing but love for the Sentinelese people,” the family said. “We forgive those reportedly responsible for his death.”
So, not content with risking the whole communities existence with whatever modern disease he might have been carrying, he went there to inflict his religion on them and destroy their culture.

Lucky escape for them
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 07:55:04 am by zero zero »

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2018, 08:05:44 am »
Does that make him the winner of this years Darwin award?

So, not content with risking the whole communities existence with whatever modern disease he might have been carrying, he went there to inflict his religion on them and destroy their culture.

Lucky escape for them

Yes. I've got absolutely no sympathy for the man whatsoever, selfish actions that could have caused a whole community to become extinct.

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Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2018, 09:07:01 am »
yup, why anyone thinks it’s a good idea to try to reason with people who go at outsiders with spears is beyond me

And this was despite all the restrictions on accessing the island in place. He basically eluded the coast guard and navy patrols, having bribed a couple of local fishermen to sneak him into the place. He basically orchestrated his own death, losing money in the process. The utter stupidity of this man astounds me

What are the odds of proselytizing being one his 'objectives' for his (mis)adventure?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 09:08:40 am by 21stCenturySchizoidMan »
Phuk yoo

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #75 on: November 22, 2018, 09:24:04 am »
'Uncontacted' tribes should be left alone if they desire no contact with outsiders. Its their right and people like this idiot have no business trying to violate them.

Personally I like the fact I can visit the Maldives, Australia, Fiji, New Zealand, the Americas, etc, because historically we didn't take that approach.

But... in this modern world it's such an intriguing opportunity that I agree, provided we can learn more from them than they lose by missing out on the benefits of the modern world

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #76 on: November 22, 2018, 09:33:54 am »
And this was despite all the restrictions on accessing the island in place. He basically eluded the coast guard and navy patrols, having bribed a couple of local fishermen to sneak him into the place. He basically orchestrated his own death, losing money in the process. The utter stupidity of this man astounds me

What are the odds of proselytizing being one his 'objectives' for his (mis)adventure?
thing is he probably thinks that doing this would guarantee his path to heaven

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #77 on: November 22, 2018, 10:28:01 am »
I assumed this was another Brexit thread.

Another great nation we'll be free to forge a trade deal with after we're shot of those meddling eu bureaucrats. Let's send Boris, Davies, pob and Walter on an exploratory trade mission.

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #78 on: November 22, 2018, 10:32:03 am »
So, not content with risking the whole communities existence with whatever modern disease he might have been carrying, he went there to inflict his religion on them and destroy their culture.

Lucky escape for them

Ass. (The guy, not you ;D )

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Re: Dodgy Island with Angry Inhabitants
« Reply #79 on: November 22, 2018, 10:43:54 am »
This has given me an idea, given last Saturday’s visit from JWs - the umpteenth this year.
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