Topic: PL: Champs 4 v 3 Leeds ‘4 p ‘32 '88 p Mo ‘11 H'sn ‘20 VVD ‘29 Bamford ‘66 Klich

[Andy82lfc]

Probably because Bielsa's ideas influenced more top managers than Hodgson, his style of play is significantly prettier, and he managed to develop more top class players.

You can't judge managers solely on achievements

This is very true.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

This is very true.

Except Bielsa has won something where as Moyes has not. He took a Chilean side and won Copa America with them. David Moyes couldn't win a tea pot set.

[Andy82lfc]

Except Bielsa has won something where as Moyes has not. He took a Chilean side and won Copa America with them. David Moyes couldn't win a tea pot set.

He hasn’t won any Copa America. Runner up. An Moyes has won that dish in the photo so that can’t be true.

Not saying he’s some chump just think the ‘genius’ tag that keeps getting lauded around is ridiculous.

[Bobinhood]

I've got to say, I find it pretty mental for anyone to think he did that deliberately. Would have been about half a yard from being the stupidest thing anyone has ever done.

It's a bit hazy, but i seem to remember one of the first things they teach is "dont put the ball in your own net for any reason if you can help it, even if you think the other team was offside". something along those lines. 

[Bobinhood]

This is very true.

Maybe its just me, but doesnt that blank banner hes proudly holding just scream "caption me"?


i'll go with "Sweet Sweet Fuck All" or maybe  "3x transfer window"

[Indomitable_Carp]

He hasn’t won any Copa America. Runner up. An Moyes has won that dish in the photo so that can’t be true.

Not saying he’s some chump just think the ‘genius’ tag that keeps getting lauded around is ridiculous.

He didn΄t win it, but he did take the Chilean national team from being absolute no marks into a team capable of winning the Copa America. He laid the foundations for their subsequent Copa America success. He is an absolute god in Chile, and held in much higher regards then even those who actually went on to win the Copa America.

He΄s clearly someone with a deep understanding of the game. You might be right that his managerial capabilities are overrated in a sense. I think a lot of his legend comes from what he does off the pitch as much as everything on it. But I don΄t think it is fair to measure managerial success purely in trophies won either. All of the projects he has taken on have been difficult, and he has left pretty much all of them in a better state then he found them, even without bringing home the big prizes.

[Andy82lfc]

He didn΄t win it, but he did take the Chilean national team from being absolute no marks into a team capable of winning the Copa America. He laid the foundations for their subsequent Copa America success. He is an absolute god in Chile, and held in much higher regards then even those who actually went on to win the Copa America.

He΄s clearly someone with a deep understanding of the game. You might be right that his managerial capabilities are overrated in a sense. I think a lot of his legend comes from what he does off the pitch as much as everything on it. But I don΄t think it is fair to measure managerial success purely in trophies won either. All of the projects he has taken on have been difficult, and he has left pretty much all of them in a better state then he found them, even without bringing home the big prizes.

Thanks, an not disputing any of that, just think some of the creaming over him goes a little too far in the media.

[fowlermagic]

I guess the rule has to be if it hits your 'hand' then it's a penalty otherwise there are too many arguable possibilities and intentions - so to simplify that judgement then the rule has to be what it is

There was a time when a player was ahead of the last man it was offside, nice and simple but now its so complicated you dont know whats happening until VAR has its say. Likewise with penalties or even goals as if there is no apparent intention to handle the ball how can it be called a penalty or not a goal? I understand they are trying to improve the game but this change in the rule is saying that penalty UTD got a couple of years back while playing in Europe when a shot at goal which was destined for the stadium roof would still be legit. Fuk that!!!!!  as I can see strikers running away from goal drilling a ball at a defender just to see if he can get a penalty even though the shot was heading to his own half.

[oldman]

as on old un whose been watching liverpool for 60 years can I just say -- what a great game that was yesterday - thankyou Jurgen and lfc

[So Howard Philips]

He hasn’t won any Copa America. Runner up. An Moyes has won that dish in the photo so that can’t be true.

Not saying he’s some chump just think the ‘genius’ tag that keeps getting lauded around is ridiculous.

You're right. Moyes is holding a fucking pie dish!

[Sheer Magnetism]

Someone saying Bielsa is no better than Hodgson. Insane. I thought it was an entertaining game but very loose, a lot of cases of the ball being given away needlessly by both teams. To my eyes we looked quite similar to the way we have for months: playing in fourth gear, creating chances but not putting them away, the defence being sloppy, not tracking runners and generally looking like we were far away from the intensity we had for the season and a half from summer 2018, but with that everpresent willingness to get over the line.

It is a concern that the three goals we conceded were from open play and all four of ours were from set pieces. We seem to have become more and more reliant on set pieces to score, which I imagine i linked in to what Ljinders said about unpredictability in attack. I don't really see the Norwich comparison - we dominated that match and they never looked in it. But hey, we got three points and that's what we wanted. I think we'll have a much better idea of where the team are after Chelsea, Arsenal and Everton away, seeing if they go up a gear there.

[killer-heels]

When we decided to stop pissing about those last 15 minutes we dominated and should have scored 2 goals whilst having an actual goal ruled out. Never in doubt.

[kavah]

as on old un whose been watching liverpool for 60 years can I just say -- what a great game that was yesterday - thankyou Jurgen and lfc

It was, right.
Welcome to Red And White Kop oldman 

[rossipersempre]

The Carragher thing is odd. Is it a case of him not wanting to be perceived as biased so going so far the other way, or has he just been at Sky so long the idea of creating as many "talking points" as possible is the most important thing?

I can't tell whether Carragher is genuinely thick, deliberately contrary or just a Sky Sports sock puppet, like Thommo was previously.

Of course, the most plausible explanation is that he's all 3.

[farawayred]

I can't tell whether Carragher is genuinely thick, deliberately contrary or just a Sky Sports sock puppet, like Thommo was previously.

Of course, the most plausible explanation is that he's all 3.

I remember when Carra was at the end of his career he was asked if he will pursue management like Stevie, to which he categorically said "no". He elaborated that he was looking forward to becoming a pundit. Perhaps that explains the statements he makes? I don't think he understands the game with the depth required for a manager. I could be wrong though, Thommo was a counterexample... 

[Gifted Right Foot]

Leeds were great value.  Will keep an eye on them this season.  If Firmino was on it we bang in a few more but it just didn't seem to click for him.  Hopefully the lapse in concentration that seems to be creeping into our game goes once they get more minutes into the legs.  It still weirdly feels like preseason so i can imagine how hard it must be for the players. 

[him_15]

Wondering how would Bielsa perform in a big club, not sure if those high-tier player could follow such intensive play-style.

[12C]

Cracking match. Not too worried about the defensive lapses, just a couple of individual errors and superb finishing from them.

Fancy Leeds to shock a few big sides this year. You just know Bielsa will wind up that c*nt Lampard again.

Giving it the big one.
Anyone think Bielsa looked like Mrs Brown when he was hugging Klopp at the end.
“Just feck off will ya, I’m upset!”
He has certainly got a decent side who were not afraid to give it a go.
Look forward to watching them this season

[12C]

I'll take 37 more 4-3 results and 114 points for the season.. 

Your heart might not though 

[redk84]

Salah was just pure footballing sex on the weekend. He was on fire!

In attack I thought we played well, but defensively had some trouble with our back line which I am sure we'll iron out with a few games....not being strong enough in our tackling and the individual errors certainly didn't help either but all in a all they threw numbers forward and scored 3 times with  shots on target which is very efficient. We created more and I think if it any point we created a two goal advantage the game would have been much different. We didn't have the sort of control on the game you'd hope for but it is the first game of the season, what do people expect?

Was an entertaining game of football and we got the 3 points ultimately. That's absolutely fine in this moment.

[mkingdon]

I put myself through the Everton Spurs game yesterday.

As Everton have yet again won the transfer window and that documentary means Jose is the second coming, I thought I should educate myself.

Well....as much as it wasn't nice to see us lose the lead three times.....

How spoiled we are as LFC fans. What a turgid serving of shit on a stick that was. The enormous gulf in quality, as one example, between our attacking players and those on the pitch yesterday is too large to be described.

Balls being shinned out of play, move after move breaking down as someone couldn't make a simple pass or protect the ball. It is both shocking and delightful.

They both might improve as the season goes on but christ, the chasm that exists in quality is huge.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Really enjoyed that game and it served as a reminder that football should be entertaining. We all get caught up in the noise that accompanies football and its attempt to take away the genuine enjoyment of the game and replace it with something more fraught.

Haven't won the league for 30 years is the stick to beat you with, then null and void, then the new season starts now and City are better, then transfers, then reasons why we won't retain it. It's all manufactured bullshit, there's no agenda, other tham to drive traffic and our name does that, especially when linked to controversy.

This weekend, clickbait on the Star site about Salah "wanting" Barcelona. Just after he gets a hat trick. Funny that all the bullshit rumours were about Mane last years. Problem is the Echo, desperate as it is for a few short term hits runs with the clickbait.

Football is as great as it always has been, better even. The things that makes it worse is the accompanying sea of shite. Ignore it all.

[rob1966]

Except Bielsa has won something where as Moyes has not. He took a Chilean side and won Copa America with them. David Moyes couldn't win a tea pot set.

Behave, Moysie won the biggest prize of all

[Carra-ton]

One thing I will say about Leeds, that style I would like to see them keep it for a whole season in the PL. Doing it against Championship teams is one thing, doing it against PL teams much more capable of keeping possession is going to tire you out sooner.
They might go a bit bust around Christmas, but it will be enjoyable watching them.
Been years since I saw that, true man to man marking all over the pitch. Immense intensity, they won't have that kind of conversion always, but will give a few teams problems.

[Kopendscorer]

Still haven't forgiven them for Bobby Collins 'tackle' on Gerry Byrne. And if anyone was on the Anfield Road end in the 70's.....Chelsea of the North indeed !

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

One other thing about that game was that some of our fast build up play was outstanding.

[Dudek savessssss.........!]

I put myself through the Everton Spurs game yesterday.

As Everton have yet again won the transfer window and that documentary means Jose is the second coming, I thought I should educate myself.

Well....as much as it wasn't nice to see us lose the lead three times.....

How spoiled we are as LFC fans. What a turgid serving of shit on a stick that was. The enormous gulf in quality, as one example, between our attacking players and those on the pitch yesterday is too large to be described.

Balls being shinned out of play, move after move breaking down as someone couldn't make a simple pass or protect the ball. It is both shocking and delightful.

They both might improve as the season goes on but christ, the chasm that exists in quality is huge.

I couldn't agree more    As you say, some of the play was awful. I was actually laughing out loud. We are spoilt indeed.

[mikeb58]

For all you Jamie Carragher bashers, you need to check out his Foundation 23 website or FB page. He loves us to bits, praises us to high heaven and is an all round decent scouser. Fuck what he says sometimes on the telly, he's just acting daft! This is from today....

What  A STAGGERING JOB JURGEN HAS DONE AT LIVERPOOL! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
While Chelsea have made a whole host of top quality signings, the champions have only signed left-back Konstantinos Tsimikas, who will play second fiddle to Andy Robertson this season.
It led to Jurgen Klopp defending his club’s transfer approach pointing out that, unlike Chelsea, they aren’t run by an oligarch.
“We live in a world at the moment with a lot of uncertainty,” the German told Radio Five Live.
“For some clubs it seems to be less important how uncertain the future is. Owned by countries, owned by oligarchs, that’s the truth.”

[Red Cactii]

Wondering how would Bielsa perform in a big club, not sure if those high-tier player could follow such intensive play-style.

Would Bilbao be his biggest job thus far(either there or Marseille)? Players feel off a cliff towards the end seasons there albeit he has modified his approach a little bit since then.

[Robinred]

For all you Jamie Carragher bashers, you need to check out his Foundation 23 website or FB page. He loves us to bits, praises us to high heaven and is an all round decent scouser. Fuck what he says sometimes on the telly, he's just acting daft! This is from today....

What  A STAGGERING JOB JURGEN HAS DONE AT LIVERPOOL! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
While Chelsea have made a whole host of top quality signings, the champions have only signed left-back Konstantinos Tsimikas, who will play second fiddle to Andy Robertson this season.
It led to Jurgen Klopp defending his club’s transfer approach pointing out that, unlike Chelsea, they aren’t run by an oligarch.
“We live in a world at the moment with a lot of uncertainty,” the German told Radio Five Live.
“For some clubs it seems to be less important how uncertain the future is. Owned by countries, owned by oligarchs, that’s the truth.”

It’s laudable that you are willing to defend him Mike. But it’s not true to suggest he’s ‘just acting daft’.

My guess is that because of the spitting incident he's desperate to keep his job. If that’s true, it appears likely that he’s been instructed to court controversy. It’s Sky’s M.O, and if the price Carra pays for keeping his job is to compromise his neutrality (or perish the thought, actually appear to have an agenda where LFC are concerned), then he frankly deserves the opprobrium.

You can’t have your cake and eat it.

[newterp]

I know we hate stats - but we did pretty much dominate.

https://twitter.com/caley_graphics/status/1304849421113360389?s=21

[Smellytrabs]

One thing I will say about Leeds, that style I would like to see them keep it for a whole season in the PL. Doing it against Championship teams is one thing, doing it against PL teams much more capable of keeping possession is going to tire you out sooner.
They might go a bit bust around Christmas, but it will be enjoyable watching them.
Been years since I saw that, true man to man marking all over the pitch. Immense intensity, they won't have that kind of conversion always, but will give a few teams problems.

Indeed. They are a young side though, so they have that advantage. I wonder if against poorer tactical teams they will be able to play in a lower gear and preserve energy a bit. Against the top 6 they are definitely going to have to play at that high tempo to compete.

[BigJimFinn]

Wondering how would Bielsa perform in a big club, not sure if those high-tier player could follow such intensive play-style.

Of course they could, just as our high-tier players have followed the intensive play-style of a certain Jόrgen Klopp. Some maybe wouldn't want to, but shame on them, not Bielsa. He might not be quite on Kloppo level as a communicator and motivator, but I believe a huge majority of his players love him.

The idea of Bielsa managing a team with top-quality players and the squad depth to sustain the physical and mental intensity has always been the Holy Grail for football nerds such as myself. His Athletic Bilbao team had the best organisation and movement I have seen live on the pitch (and it cannot be fully judged on TV).

The reason it hasn't happened is probably the perceived risk of putting someone that his bosses can't influence in charge of a commercial enterprise worth hundreds of millions. His idealism and refusal to compromise his football vision in the slightest details, combined with indifference to money, personal glory and the trappings of success, makes him unpredictable and invulnerable to normal means of control from above. So, it is understandable that he is sought by clubs that have more to gain than they risk to lose, and he seems to prefer such challenges.

I certainly intend to watch a lot of Leeds games this season. I wouldn't watch a random Crystal Palace or Burnley game if you paid me. Football is entertainment as much as competition, and the first game was the most entertaining I have seen in a long time. Long live Bielsa in the Premier League!