Author Topic: FSG discussion thread  (Read 744535 times)

Offline tubby

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14120 on: June 4, 2023, 12:50:48 pm »
Not at all.

Jorg Schmadtke.

"Jurgen Klopp sets the priorities. We set him up with a team of data analysts, scouts and so on, so he can then choose from a list of players who he wants to work with. Then I'll deal with the transfers with the responsible departments in the club.And, in the end, the owners have to be satisfied with the investments. "

Klopp on Mike Gordon.

Klopp. “We can have ideas, we can have plans but in the end he decides if we can do it or not,”

That is not a SD or SD+Klopp being given a budget and being allowed to spend it and use a coherent strategy to build a side. That is FSG and in particular, Gordon micro-managing things and deciding whether each individual player is a good investment for FSG.

That is about having a fluid budget that is dependent on revenues and above all player sales. 

lol ok
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14121 on: June 4, 2023, 01:06:50 pm »
Every club has someone who decides if they can do it or not though. 
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14122 on: June 4, 2023, 01:41:28 pm »
Every club has someone who decides if they can do it or not though. 

Is that true or in the European DoF/SD model do they get a budget and then get to spend that budget without one of the owners micro-managing each transfer?

Are they free to overspend on an ideal player that they think will fit with the existing team and elevate those players around them?

Are they free to build a cohesive unit with players that complement each other or does each player have to be a 'good investment' for the owners? Personally, I think what elevated the club to its run of success was the signing of VVD and then Ali. Transfers that simply did not fit with FSG's 'value' model and would not have been possible without the Coutinho money.

What 'value' does for me means you end up with a group of attackers like Diaz, Jota, Gakpo, Nunez, Jota and Carvalho that all went to play centrally or from the left. What 'value' does is means you end up with a midfield that consists of players that are too old or too young and no balance.

Building a cohesive group that compliments each other is all about what happens on the pitch and not on a spreadsheet.

It reminds me of Comolli at Spurs.

"I felt the squad would be unbalanced with these signings," Jol said, "and it proved to be the case." During the off-season Tottenham spent £30m on Darren Bent, Younes Kaboul, Adel Taarabt and Kevin Boateng, none of whom have had any significant impact at White Hart Lane so far.

"The new manager will probably come to the same conclusion and the club will go out in January and buy the two players I felt we needed," Jol added. "When Frank Arnesen [who was Comolli's predecessor before moving to Chelsea] was director of football we spoke together about the players to bring to the club. But I did not have the same relationship with the next man.

"I think the club wanted to invest in younger players because they wanted to make money on them in the future. The decisions were not being made for football reasons. I knew that in the summer and I realised my position was becoming very difficult."


If you look at the attackers we have signed individually you can make a case for each one. However, they are hugely unbalanced as a collective.

I think that is what happens when you look for value signings in isolation and don't have someone taking an overview of recruitment. That has always been my problem with having analysts like Edwards and Ward as Sporting Directors.

I think the way forward is to have a more European model with a budget and the DoF and Klopp free to build a great collective and not just individuals that represent value at that moment.

I have expressed my feelings and will leave it to others now.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14123 on: June 4, 2023, 01:51:34 pm »
One minute it's an issue Gordon took time off, next minute it's an issue he's even there, apparently, micro-managing.

Hard to keep up.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14124 on: June 4, 2023, 02:14:51 pm »
I am not sure you can blame the SD or Klopp though. For me the lack of planning is down to the way FSG operates.
Everybody has to take their fair share of blame, to only blame one component is just not being objective. FSG always wanted to operate on a buy low sell high, why did this change? Jurgen wanted to keep his players. If it was purely upto FSG, Salah and Mane wouldve been sold for £100m each but we wouldn't have won half the trophies we have done. Knowing when to sell is always a difficult art especially when you're talking about the stars of the team. You also need a Juventus or a Utd to come in with stupid offers for your players.

Covid made a big impact on our transfer dealings, but you can't tell me that we were forced to buy Nunez ahead of other cheaper options to allow us to buy in areas.

Where FSG ultimately failed was the SD was not given licence to look after the transition of younger cheaper players properly, or wasn't competent enough to. It still comes down to FSG as they groomed Ward yet within months he wanted out.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14125 on: June 4, 2023, 02:19:10 pm »
One minute it's an issue Gordon took time off, next minute it's an issue he's even there, apparently, micro-managing.

Hard to keep up.

Why is too hard to keep up.

I think it is a flawed set-up without a Football man ideally an experienced DoF looking at the bigger picture and planning for the future. Gordon not being there to make decisions quickly just made the system even more ineffective.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14126 on: June 4, 2023, 02:27:20 pm »
Wish you posted against the Tories with this passion Al  :D

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14127 on: June 4, 2023, 04:14:29 pm »
Wish you posted against the Tories with this passion Al  :D
In the list of villains to go after, the Tories, UEFA, and Man City are many,many levels above FSG!
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14128 on: June 5, 2023, 12:58:32 pm »
Haha yep.

Anyway Mac Allister seems to be agreed

I have seen it written that Klopp's list also includes Kone, Thuram, and Veiga

Klopp's list, implying he is getting backed by FSG

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14129 on: June 5, 2023, 01:17:06 pm »
MacAllister's fee looks to be a bargain as well.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14130 on: June 5, 2023, 01:22:48 pm »
It's the least Brighton owe us for letting that shite put 5 goals past them and effectively keeping them in the league.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14131 on: June 5, 2023, 03:10:25 pm »
Excellent work from the owners in getting Mac Allister for that fee. Identified where we needed a player and acted swiftly, selling him on the project and getting the contract sorted. They've obviously been busy this time around with links to players coming thick and fast. Keep up the excellent work lads

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14132 on: June 5, 2023, 04:13:17 pm »
Excellent work from the owners in getting Mac Allister for that fee. Identified where we needed a player and acted swiftly, selling him on the project and getting the contract sorted. They've obviously been busy this time around with links to players coming thick and fast. Keep up the excellent work lads

Firstly the fee is dictated by the buyout clause. Secondly, let's see how it works out because for me his role isn't really a role we are that short in. I would say our biggest need is for a couple of midfield monsters. Players with athleticism and defensive qualities. Mac Allister is clearly a talented player but I wouldn't say it is a foregone conclusion that he will be a success. The real positive is that we have got him in early.

Hopefully we can add a couple of dynamic midfield players and a centre back and get our business done early. 
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14133 on: June 5, 2023, 04:27:37 pm »
Excellent work from the owners in getting Mac Allister for that fee. Identified where we needed a player and acted swiftly, selling him on the project and getting the contract sorted. They've obviously been busy this time around with links to players coming thick and fast. Keep up the excellent work lads

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14134 on: June 5, 2023, 06:09:06 pm »
Excellent work from the owners in getting Mac Allister for that fee. Identified where we needed a player and acted swiftly, selling him on the project and getting the contract sorted. They've obviously been busy this time around with links to players coming thick and fast. Keep up the excellent work lads

Hope I'm not being too forward Linda...but that red dress looks great on you ....
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14135 on: June 5, 2023, 08:58:34 pm »
 ;D
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Offline ScottScott

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14136 on: June 5, 2023, 09:49:57 pm »
After last season and the players and staff letting me down so much, I've decided to fully back FSG and become an FSG fan. That's where the real fun lies nowadays, not on the pitch but in the boardrooms and on Excel spreadsheets

Looking forward to their performance this window and hoping for a couple of big announcements on the commercial side of things to go with the new Annie Road stand

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14137 on: June 5, 2023, 10:23:55 pm »
After last season and the players and staff letting me down so much, I've decided to fully back FSG and become an FSG fan. That's where the real fun lies nowadays, not on the pitch but in the boardrooms and on Excel spreadsheets

Looking forward to their performance this window and hoping for a couple of big announcements on the commercial side of things to go with the new Annie Road stand

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14138 on: June 5, 2023, 10:25:32 pm »
Hope I'm not being too forward Linda...but that red dress looks great on you ....
:-*  Oh Pistol. Flattery will get you everywhere.  :-*
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14139 on: June 5, 2023, 10:29:22 pm »
She reportedly used her real estate experience and connections to help Fenway Sports Group to negotiate new land deals to help expand Anfield. We have her to thank for the increased capacity!

^ some website

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14140 on: June 6, 2023, 10:03:01 am »
After last season and the players and staff letting me down so much, I've decided to fully back FSG and become an FSG fan. That's where the real fun lies nowadays, not on the pitch but in the boardrooms and on Excel spreadsheets

Looking forward to their performance this window and hoping for a couple of big announcements on the commercial side of things to go with the new Annie Road stand

I wondered who got Craig's old job.
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Offline tubby

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14141 on: June 6, 2023, 10:16:36 am »
I wondered who got Craig's old job.

;D
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14142 on: June 6, 2023, 10:26:46 am »
Firstly the fee is dictated by the buyout clause. Secondly, let's see how it works out because for me his role isn't really a role we are that short in. I would say our biggest need is for a couple of midfield monsters. Players with athleticism and defensive qualities. Mac Allister is clearly a talented player but I wouldn't say it is a foregone conclusion that he will be a success. The real positive is that we have got him in early.

Hopefully we can add a couple of dynamic midfield players and a centre back and get our business done early.

So it's their fault if it turns out shite but it's not them who get the credit if it goes well. I think that's a microcosm of the whole discourse about the owners to be honest  ;D
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14143 on: June 6, 2023, 10:28:02 am »
I wondered who got Craig's old job.

I believe they had to take on a team of 10 to keep up with your never ending flip flopping.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14144 on: June 6, 2023, 11:18:05 am »
I'll be like the anti-Al. All sunshine and rainbows about our amazing owners, singing songs about how they saved us and led us to winning everything over the last few years

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14145 on: June 6, 2023, 06:49:59 pm »
So it's their fault if it turns out shite but it's not them who get the credit if it goes well. I think that's a microcosm of the whole discourse about the owners to be honest  ;D

If we continue to stockpile players who predominately play in a similar area because they are easy to sign whilst ignoring more pressing needs then Yes it will be their fault. For me Diaz, Carvalho, Gakpo and Mac Allister if we get him are all very attacking players who can play from the left or centrally. All four players are clearly talented and were all 'value' signings that were easy to do either because of buyouts, the selling club needing money desperately or in the case of Carvalho the ability to go to a tribunal.

All four signings individually make sense but as a collective, we have over recruited in certain areas and failed to recruit in others.

For me, success or failure will depend on whether we address a lack of pace, power and defensive nous in midfield and fail to bring in another centre back. I just hope we don't repeat the mistake of bringing in Gakpo because he was an easy deal to do, whilst ignoring the glaring deficiencies in midfield.   
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Offline ScottScott

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14146 on: June 6, 2023, 06:54:39 pm »
John and the boys running the show know what they're doing and know what we need. They've done the work behind the scenes and picked the players for Jurgen for next season

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14147 on: June 6, 2023, 06:58:13 pm »
John and the boys running the show know what they're doing and know what we need. They've done the work behind the scenes and picked the players for Jurgen for next season

I find your lack of faith disturbing

I was actually at a Red Sox game recently and saw old John on WyScout doing some scouting.  He's got it all under control. 

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14148 on: June 6, 2023, 07:03:59 pm »
I was actually at a Red Sox game recently and saw old John on WyScout doing some scouting.  He's got it all under control. 

are you sure it wasn't "Why Scout?"

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14149 on: June 6, 2023, 07:25:04 pm »
are you sure it wasn't "Why Scout?"

Pack that in, I won't have a bad thing said about John and his team. We'd be nothing without them

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14150 on: June 6, 2023, 07:57:26 pm »
Hope I'm not being too forward Linda...but that red dress looks great on you ....

Quality.   😂

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14151 on: June 6, 2023, 08:56:50 pm »
If we continue to stockpile players who predominately play in a similar area because they are easy to sign whilst ignoring more pressing needs then Yes it will be their fault. For me Diaz, Carvalho, Gakpo and Mac Allister if we get him are all very attacking players who can play from the left or centrally. All four players are clearly talented and were all 'value' signings that were easy to do either because of buyouts, the selling club needing money desperately or in the case of Carvalho the ability to go to a tribunal.

All four signings individually make sense but as a collective, we have over recruited in certain areas and failed to recruit in others.

For me, success or failure will depend on whether we address a lack of pace, power and defensive nous in midfield and fail to bring in another centre back. I just hope we don't repeat the mistake of bringing in Gakpo because he was an easy deal to do, whilst ignoring the glaring deficiencies in midfield.

Yeah, but Klopp has a big say in these transfers too. We wouldn't sign a big player without his blessing. I would also argue that MacAllister is not really that attacking of player. He is similar to Thiago in that he excels at dictating the tempo but he is also pretty tenacious.


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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14152 on: June 6, 2023, 09:18:06 pm »
Yeah, but Klopp has a big say in these transfers too. We wouldn't sign a big player without his blessing. I would also argue that MacAllister is not really that attacking of player. He is similar to Thiago in that he excels at dictating the tempo but he is also pretty tenacious.



The thing is we have plenty of players that can play that role. As you say we have Thiago,  plus Jones, Carvalho, Elliott and Gakpo. Where we are lacking is on the defensive and Athletic aspects of the midfield. The bits Fabinho and Hendo provided.

The kind of role Caicedo provides at Brighton. The pace, power and ability to sniff out danger.
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14153 on: June 6, 2023, 09:27:04 pm »
The thing is we have plenty of players that can play that role. As you say we have Thiago,  plus Jones, Carvalho, Elliott and Gakpo. Where we are lacking is on the defensive and Athletic aspects of the midfield. The bits Fabinho and Hendo provided.

The kind of role Caicedo provides at Brighton. The pace, power and ability to sniff out danger.

I wouldn't be happy if we went into next season relying on Elliott or Carvallho as our #8's. That is why MacCallister makes sense. They are good prospects but not ready yet to build a midfield around.

It looks like we are looking at other players as well.

No point assuming that he will be our only signing.

Offline LifelongRed, Sussex

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14154 on: June 6, 2023, 09:41:40 pm »
If we continue to stockpile players who predominately play in a similar area because they are easy to sign whilst ignoring more pressing needs then Yes it will be their fault. For me Diaz, Carvalho, Gakpo and Mac Allister if we get him are all very attacking players who can play from the left or centrally. All four players are clearly talented and were all 'value' signings that were easy to do either because of buyouts, the selling club needing money desperately or in the case of Carvalho the ability to go to a tribunal.

All four signings individually make sense but as a collective, we have over recruited in certain areas and failed to recruit in others.

For me, success or failure will depend on whether we address a lack of pace, power and defensive nous in midfield and fail to bring in another centre back. I just hope we don't repeat the mistake of bringing in Gakpo because he was an easy deal to do, whilst ignoring the glaring deficiencies in midfield.

Mac Allister’s totally different to the others.

How do I know this?  I watched him live for three seasons. He’s box to box allrounder with excellent defensive attributes.  Aside from my take, his positional heat maps online are very similar to Wijnaldum’s 2019/20 for example.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14155 on: June 6, 2023, 10:05:53 pm »
Mac Allister’s totally different to the others.

How do I know this?  I watched him live for three seasons. He’s box to box allrounder with excellent defensive attributes.  Aside from my take, his positional heat maps online are very similar to Wijnaldum’s 2019/20 for example.

ooooooo - what do his heat maps look like??

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14156 on: June 6, 2023, 10:56:41 pm »
ooooooo - what do his heat maps look like??

Apparently pretty hot

Offline LifelongRed, Sussex

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14157 on: June 6, 2023, 11:53:33 pm »

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14158 on: June 7, 2023, 02:35:05 am »
https://www.sofascore.com/player/alexis-mac-allister/895324

Wijnaldum’s then click PL 2019/20
https://www.sofascore.com/player/georginio-wijnaldum/22126



Haha you are supposed to post the mac red heat map that he posted 100 times in the transfer thread.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14159 on: June 7, 2023, 02:48:57 am »
The thing is we have plenty of players that can play that role. As you say we have Thiago,  plus Jones, Carvalho, Elliott and Gakpo. Where we are lacking is on the defensive and Athletic aspects of the midfield. The bits Fabinho and Hendo provided.

The kind of role Caicedo provides at Brighton. The pace, power and ability to sniff out danger.

Gakpo doesn’t play the same position as those other players so he shouldn’t be mixed in with them.  And, yes, I do realize that a “false 9” plays in the same spaces as a #10 would.  It doesn’t seem like Klopp will be going for the players that you are advocating for.  We haven’t been linked to any defensive minded midfielders have we?