Author Topic: Gay Footballers  (Read 47361 times)

Offline thejbs

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #160 on: July 9, 2019, 05:38:41 pm »
Going back to the original debate, and something I wanted to ask a while ago but couldn't work out how without risking coming across badly... I've had plenty of gay friends over the years, and not a single one of them was interested in football as a fan. Is there not something about the testosterone-driven, competitive, "manly" sport that stops a lot of gay youngsters ever getting involved? It's obviously not 100%, but if you think the same percentage of footballers is gay as the general population, logic suggests it must also be true in drama, fashion, nursing etc etc. As to the exact nature of any causation, that's one for another day :)

I have a lot of gay friends, male and female. The majority of them are into sport and some play football and rugby. Conversely, most of my straight male friends have zero interest in sport, being more artsy-fartsy music and photography types like myself.

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #161 on: July 9, 2019, 06:42:05 pm »

Going back to the original debate, and something I wanted to ask a while ago but couldn't work out how without risking coming across badly... I've had plenty of gay friends over the years, and not a single one of them was interested in football as a fan. Is there not something about the testosterone-driven, competitive, "manly" sport that stops a lot of gay youngsters ever getting involved? It's obviously not 100%, but if you think the same percentage of footballers is gay as the general population, logic suggests it must also be true in drama, fashion, nursing etc etc. As to the exact nature of any causation, that's one for another day :)
I went to school in the 70s and those who were gay kept their heads down and told no one. I only know this with hindsight, after they came out much later on. Two lads I know we're well into football back then. Lots of gay people are into football or sport in general. The Lisbon Bar in Liverpool sponsors Mersey marauders FC, which is a gay football team.

Although I've known plenty of gay people who aren't into sport, I've known plenty who are. I think the issue is that many find the sporting environment to be unwelcoming, so they avoid it. I've had conversations on this topic with gay people over the years who have said that what put them off sport in general was not actually sport itself, but the attitudes of so many of the people in it or who follow it. There is so much laddish immaturity and homophobia that it puts many gay people off getting involved.

I don't think the testosterone/manly thing puts people off so much. Generally speaking, gay men like men to be men. Testosterone fuelled and manly men. Just as a hetetosexual male I like feminine women. If you are a gay man, you are attracted to masculinity, so masculine pursuits and environments are going to attract you, not repel you. The issue is whether or not those environments are going to be welcoming and inclusive or not.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #162 on: July 9, 2019, 06:51:11 pm »
Never knew I was a political lobby before. Mad how the world works.

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Offline Sarge

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #163 on: July 9, 2019, 06:52:06 pm »
Just on a leveller, I know many straight people who do not like Sports.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #164 on: July 9, 2019, 07:00:45 pm »
Never knew I was a political lobby before. Mad how the world works.

Bit confused by this comment - are you just messing or were you offended by the term lobby? Special Interest Group might be the correct term. But it's not mad at all, you don't get things like  same-sex marriage laws passed without some sort of political organization

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #165 on: July 9, 2019, 08:31:00 pm »

Sorry if you took anything as an attack, i was just commenting on the marketing tactics of a fairly strong political lobby because ive got a lifelong interest in marketing and ive always found it very interesting that the number is hardly ever challenged. Nothing to say about the rights and the wrongs of the position the lobby represents. Its actually excellent representation and very effective. I actually admire that rather ballsy position.

but you can see the shitstorm that develops when you ask questions. Apparently i hate gays, black people, social justice in general, when i say the 10% figure is meant to increase financial and political clout im asked to give a funding example and when i give one off the top of my head im attacked for opposing social funding and when i say im not opposed to social funding im juxtaposed backwards on the quotes with an emoji that im luckily to old to fully comprehend but its ok because i know the quotes are actually backwards in time and not supported by context and what i said makes total sense, unless its viewed as an attack instead of a commentary. Plus Craigs a very good guy with solid values and i like him and hes just defending social justice so thats all good.

I swear im not attacking social justice. However, if i have to add even one more PC letter to LGBTQ2IA+ I may cry for the impending failure of the revolution, eaten from within.

OK fair enough mate. I think singing out a repressed who are still classed as illegal in many parts of the world was clumsy, but if thats not how it is then ok.   :-*
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #166 on: July 9, 2019, 08:38:16 pm »
Bit confused by this comment - are you just messing or were you offended by the term lobby? Special Interest Group might be the correct term. But it's not mad at all, you don't get things like  same-sex marriage laws passed without some sort of political organization
People don’t want to be seen as labels.

They don’t want to have to fight for equality.

They think equality should be theirs by right.

And they rightly get fucking pissed off when this isn’t the case and they are classified as a ‘lobby’.  Not that you meant badly by the term, but... People just want to be people, free to love, live and act inthe same way as the rest of society.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #167 on: July 9, 2019, 09:10:51 pm »
I have a lot of gay friends, male and female. The majority of them are into sport and some play football and rugby. Conversely, most of my straight male friends have zero interest in sport, being more artsy-fartsy music and photography types like myself.

Maybe it is the industries that people work in that have different opinions on sport, but I work in the "entertainment" industry and all my gay colleagues do not have the slightest interest in football. Normally they would be quick to slag it off when we start talking about it, or be filthy about a certain player.

Honestly can't remember coming across any gay person who was into footy but like I said it might just be the industry I work in.

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #168 on: July 10, 2019, 10:24:16 am »

Going back to the original debate, and something I wanted to ask a while ago but couldn't work out how without risking coming across badly... I've had plenty of gay friends over the years, and not a single one of them was interested in football as a fan. Is there not something about the testosterone-driven, competitive, "manly" sport that stops a lot of gay youngsters ever getting involved? It's obviously not 100%, but if you think the same percentage of footballers is gay as the general population, logic suggests it must also be true in drama, fashion, nursing etc etc. As to the exact nature of any causation, that's one for another day

In a society where being gay can be a problem it's hard to know for sure as people aren't necessarily going to be honest about their sexuality if they fear ridicule or worse. Gay men are not always camp and therefore why should people who aren't camp be anymore attracted to theatre than football? To what extent do gay people feel safer in certain roles or professions and therefore seek them out knowing they'll get less shit,

My daughter was at college with an intelligent doctor from Nigeria, who had done wonderful work in medicine in his country, who seriously argued we don't have gays in Nigeria, it's a western thing. Never come across anyone gay in my country. Obviously there are gay people in Nigeria it's just not safe to come out in that environment.

Human sexuality is one of the most intimate feelings we  experience, on one level it should have absolutely nothing to do with politics, it's your sexuality and it is your own business, it's part of who you are, why should you need to justify or explain it to strangers? Your sexuality is personal, it's the reaction and persecution of other people to your sexuality that makes one of the most intimate personal parts of your life political, the politics comes from others reactions to what you feel as a human being.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 10:30:00 am by The 92A »
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Offline thejbs

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #169 on: July 10, 2019, 10:56:06 am »
Maybe it is the industries that people work in that have different opinions on sport, but I work in the "entertainment" industry and all my gay colleagues do not have the slightest interest in football. Normally they would be quick to slag it off when we start talking about it, or be filthy about a certain player.

Honestly can't remember coming across any gay person who was into footy but like I said it might just be the industry I work in.

That would be the entertainment industry angle. As I said, most of my artsy straight friends have no interest in sport at all. Only for my rural Irish upbringing where football was ingrained into my psyche growing up, I'd probably have no interest in it either.

Online stewy17

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #170 on: July 10, 2019, 11:02:51 am »
A bit mad to be honest that in 2019 we're having conversations about whether sexuality or gender has any bearing on whether you enjoy sports or not.




Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #171 on: July 10, 2019, 11:59:00 am »
In a society where being gay can be a problem it's hard to know for sure as people aren't necessarily going to be honest about their sexuality if they fear ridicule or worse. Gay men are not always camp and therefore why should people who aren't camp be anymore attracted to theatre than football? To what extent do gay people feel safer in certain roles or professions and therefore seek them out knowing they'll get less shit,

My daughter was at college with an intelligent doctor from Nigeria, who had done wonderful work in medicine in his country, who seriously argued we don't have gays in Nigeria, it's a western thing. Never come across anyone gay in my country. Obviously there are gay people in Nigeria it's just not safe to come out in that environment.

Human sexuality is one of the most intimate feelings we  experience, on one level it should have absolutely nothing to do with politics, it's your sexuality and it is your own business, it's part of who you are, why should you need to justify or explain it to strangers? Your sexuality is personal, it's the reaction and persecution of other people to your sexuality that makes one of the most intimate personal parts of your life political, the politics comes from others reactions to what you feel as a human being.

I always find it a bit weird that in many people's eyes, gay men tend to be camp men. The reality is far, far different. Camp, gay men exist, of course, but they are a very small minority. Like the heterosexual scene; gay people come in all guises. The camp gay man is basically just a lazy stereotype, just as is the curly permed Scouser with a mustache.

Anyway, I agree with you. People tend to gravitate to places, people, professions etc where they feel most comfortable. Gay people are no different. Certain environments can be very immature and unwelcoming, so it's no surprise that some would avoid them. As a heterosexual man I'm the same. I used to work in manufacturing and labour intensive work,  and although I could mix in ok I hated the laddish, childish banter culture and grew tired of it. I moved into outreach care work then counselling and found the environment so much more mature. People acted like grown-ups and treated others like grown-ups too. So yes, you gravitate to people, jobs and environments that you are more likely to feel comfortable in. I met a lot of LGBT people in care work and counselling. Maybe I met some in those other jobs, but maybe they never felt comfortable being fully themselves there?

The outlook of that doctor from Nigeria is no surprise. There are also many Muslims that will tell you there are no gay Muslims. I've heard it said many a time. The reality is that there are many, but they simply do not feel safe enough to be who they are. What these people don't realise is that being LGBT is not a western thing, it's not a Christian thing or whatever, it's a human thing.
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Offline Jake

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #172 on: July 11, 2019, 06:41:07 pm »
People tend to gravitate to places, people, professions etc where they feel most comfortable.

I think that's a really bloody good point, and answers the question entirely for me.

I can see a young lad who's joined a team where it's common to get called a "bender" and worse because it's "banter innit" will think to himself "fuck this I'll go do something where people are nice". Whereas the women's sport doesn't have that so much.

We had a lad in our five a side group who we were fairly sure was gay, not that it mattered. When we were short of players some of the Sunday league lot who are rough as arseholes joined in to fill in and all of a sudden the lad didn't fancy it any more. He might not have been gay of course and it doesn't matter either way but I always wondered if that's what put him off.

So yeah I bet it's brainless football players that scare the gay players away, rather than a lad not enjoying kicking a ball around and scoring a goal.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 06:43:21 pm by Jake »
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #173 on: July 11, 2019, 07:16:45 pm »
I think that's a really bloody good point, and answers the question entirely for me.

I can see a young lad who's joined a team where it's common to get called a "bender" and worse because it's "banter innit" will think to himself "fuck this I'll go do something where people are nice". Whereas the women's sport doesn't have that so much.

We had a lad in our five a side group who we were fairly sure was gay, not that it mattered. When we were short of players some of the Sunday league lot who are rough as arseholes joined in to fill in and all of a sudden the lad didn't fancy it any more. He might not have been gay of course and it doesn't matter either way but I always wondered if that's what put him off.

So yeah I bet it's brainless football players that scare the gay players away, rather than a lad not enjoying kicking a ball around and scoring a goal.

This is it. People will rarely put themselves in uncomfortable situations or places if they can help it. Sadly, a lot of people have a really tough time at school and form impressions from that which last a lifetime. I've known gay people or people with anxiety; people who are into alternative music and looks etc who have felt alienated and often abused by the 'sporty lad' types, and this has put them off for life. Some will stick with it regardless, but plenty will just shun it due to the environment. Who can blame them? Why put yourself through that?

I actually think it's a lot easier for lesbians to get into women's football and be accepted as they should be. Females are generally more mature about sexuality anyway. But also, girls being into playing football often used to feel like outsiders themselves. Often viewed as 'tomboys' regardless of their sexuality. In a way, they have all been seen as 'outsiders' and non-conformists to an extent. I'm not sure I worded that as well as I'd have liked, so I hope it comes across ok.

I imagine that gay footballers fear the same kind of abuse black players used to get if they come out. You cannot hide your colour, but you can hide your sexuality. Neither should be an issue for anyone with even half a brain but, sadly, it is in the eyes of too many. Why put yourself through the hassle, the abuse, the trolling etc if you don't have to? It's already been difficult enough just trying to be themselves when growing up in this crazy, messed up and intolerant world. Why risk getting abused by 40,000 people every weekend if you don't have to? So yes, I can understand why gay footballers would not come out, particularly whilst still playing. Basically, the environment is generally negative and toxic. It's human nature to avoid such pain in your life. The game and far too many of its followers have a deeply homophobic reputation, so it's no surprise that many gay men who otherwise like football might give the environment a swerve.



« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:18:51 pm by Sons of pioneerS »
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Offline Bobinhood

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #174 on: July 11, 2019, 08:22:43 pm »
Never knew I was a political lobby before. Mad how the world works.

 ;D Your probably not. Your just a member of the nice person lobby.

Notwithstanding that, the history of the gay rights movement is very extensive and goes all the way back to the 50's. At the cost of generations of hard work they have successfully moved society from a place where mockery prevailed and police charged into bathhouses long on truncheons and short on dialogue, to an admittedly imperfect but much better place where major city's hold annual celebratory parades that are attended by millions of all persuasions who mix and have a right good party celebrating peoples right to be themselves. Its one of the more successful movements ever.

It wasn't just luck, the communities organized and worked very hard at it. So if you happen to be a member of that community you do have a very effective lobby working on your behalf, even if you yourself are completely apolitical.





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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #175 on: July 11, 2019, 08:31:46 pm »
;D Your probably not. Your just a member of the nice person lobby.

Notwithstanding that, the history of the gay rights movement is very extensive and goes all the way back to the 50's. At the cost of generations of hard work they have successfully moved society from a place where mockery prevailed and police charged into bathhouses long on truncheons and short on dialogue, to an admittedly imperfect but much better place where major city's hold annual celebratory parades that are attended by millions of all persuasions who mix and have a right good party celebrating peoples right to be themselves. Its one of the more successful movements ever.

It wasn't just luck, the communities organized and worked very hard at it. So if you happen to be a member of that community you do have a very effective lobby working on your behalf, even if you yourself are completely apolitical.

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #176 on: July 11, 2019, 08:42:11 pm »


 ;D

Edit: the kicker is, I originally wrote "Batons" and i looked at it and said "no,no, thats never gonna fly whats better whats better Truncheons, ya truncheons thats it, much less risque. Dont want to seem flippant "

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« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 01:19:18 am by Bobinhood »
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #177 on: July 21, 2019, 12:58:32 pm »
He just Tweeted, I fear he is heading for a serious fall the way he is doing this, hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #178 on: July 21, 2019, 01:09:08 pm »
I haven’t really followed this but how do we know this is legitimately a gay football in the Championship?

Offline Sarge

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #179 on: July 21, 2019, 01:21:15 pm »
I haven’t really followed this but how do we know this is legitimately a gay football in the Championship?

No, but the date above is the day he comes out.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #180 on: July 21, 2019, 01:50:06 pm »
He just Tweeted, I fear he is heading for a serious fall the way he is doing this, hope I'm wrong.

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A fall in what way?

Offline Sarge

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #181 on: July 21, 2019, 01:52:22 pm »
A fall in what way?

Backlash from morons.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #182 on: July 21, 2019, 01:52:52 pm »
I think its a hoax, can't think of why someone would make it all about them as an individual. Making a big song and dance might lead to the opposite effect of the bone heads accepting it as no more or less normal than being straight.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #183 on: July 21, 2019, 01:54:47 pm »
Backlash from morons.

The morons are going to be morons regardless of how he does it to be honest.

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #184 on: July 21, 2019, 01:55:37 pm »
He just Tweeted, I fear he is heading for a serious fall the way he is doing this, hope I'm wrong.

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Sorry I'm late to the party

What is this about?
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #185 on: July 21, 2019, 02:02:51 pm »
The morons are going to be morons regardless of how he does it to be honest.

True enough.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #186 on: July 21, 2019, 02:03:17 pm »
Sorry I'm late to the party

What is this about?

Possible Championship player coming out.
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Offline S

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #187 on: July 21, 2019, 02:17:24 pm »
I think the issue is that many find the sporting environment to be unwelcoming, so they avoid it. I've had conversations on this topic with gay people over the years who have said that what put them off sport in general was not actually sport itself, but the attitudes of so many of the people in it or who follow it. There is so much laddish immaturity and homophobia that it puts many gay people off getting involved.
I think this is the key, and it probably starts from a young age. I went to school in the mid 00's and if someone was openly gay in the football or rugby changing rooms they would have been the target of every joke.

Am I wrong in thinking this is changing though, aren't teenagers now generally more accepting of sexual preferences? I'm not saying they've undergone some great enlightenment, rather that it is a natural byproduct of more and more people willingly coming out.

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #188 on: July 21, 2019, 02:21:34 pm »
I think its a hoax, can't think of why someone would make it all about them as an individual. Making a big song and dance might lead to the opposite effect of the bone heads accepting it as no more or less normal than being straight.
Part of me thinks this is someone outing someone else out

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #189 on: July 21, 2019, 02:28:49 pm »
Part of me thinks this is someone outing someone else out

I hope not, would be poor that. If it is real I hope its the start of more coming out and being who they want to be without a back lash, of course as Craig said morons will be morons but I feel they are less now than say in the 70s and 80s.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #190 on: July 24, 2019, 05:12:53 am »
The account has been deleted.  Seemingly the player had been in touch with the BBC to share his fears about coming out.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #191 on: July 24, 2019, 07:01:45 am »
The account has been deleted.  Seemingly the player had been in touch with the BBC to share his fears about coming out.

If it was ever legit in the first place.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #192 on: July 24, 2019, 09:11:15 am »
Probably a Paddy Power marketing stunt

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #193 on: July 24, 2019, 10:18:46 am »
Maybe I'm wrong, but in this day and age of attention seeking, troll, 'I'm not getting enough likes' society, no fucking way did I think this was real and surprised it's being so widely reported. Am I missing something though? Did the guy prove somehow he was a championship player? Surely he must have done as why so much attention on it?

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #194 on: July 24, 2019, 10:55:41 am »
If it was a real account its sad, and if it was a fake account its sad, for a different reason.

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #195 on: July 24, 2019, 12:41:00 pm »
Knew it was a hoax.

Shame in a way, another reminder that such a big deal is made, either way, about who someone fancies.
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #196 on: July 24, 2019, 12:46:44 pm »
The only reason I thought it might be real was the thought that if it was made up, why go for a Championship footballer and not a Premier League one? But something didn't really add up the whole time, and the quotes from the BBC today add to that I think.

He says his club is aware of it - if that was the case then word would quickly get around and it would be leaked.

He says he wants to be able to go out without the added attention and publicity - not being funny, but a young Championship footballer would be able to walk past 99% of people and not be recognised.

We'll likely never know if it was real or not though. I do hope that when someone does feel the need to come out, they just do it as if its the most natural and normal thing in the World rather than trying to create hype and suspense about an announcement.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 12:49:17 pm by LovelyCushionedHeader »
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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #197 on: July 24, 2019, 12:48:37 pm »
I had a feeling this was a load of bollox

Probably some attention junkie on a wind up

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #198 on: July 24, 2019, 12:52:15 pm »
He says he wants to be able to go out without the added attention and publicity

Then why start the whole thing in the first place and hype the shite out of it?

I mean, what did he think was going to happen?

That's assuming it's real, which I don't think it is

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Re: Gay Footballers
« Reply #199 on: July 24, 2019, 01:06:46 pm »
If it was a real account its sad, and if it was a fake account its sad, for a different reason.

Sad this thread even exists in 2019.
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