Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[Shaved Crossbar]

I don’t know if Gini gives us enough defensively as a 6 but on the ball he’s nearly everything we could hope for. His long passing has improved, which is very helpful. It’s still not at a world class level but he did well switching the play quickly and efficiently today. In previous seasons he was reluctant to even attempt those 40 yarders and they’d be too floaty. His resistance to pressure and his composure was outstanding as always.

Milner, too, isn’t the long passing maestro we need/want (and we didn’t get enough from his few longer  attempts in the first half) but his involvement and distance covered usurps that. Hard to criticise his passing when he’s come out with 95 successful / 102 attempted. He was really great at moving wide when we had the ball - I actually loved that we set up that way and had that extra width once Mo had drifted inside. Milner crossing from the right  with 3 in the box is always a good play for us.

Naby is a savant

[Ratboy3G]

Thought Gini was marvellous as a No. 6. So, so calm on the ball. Never lost it.

I actually had him as man of the match today, didn't really put a foot wrong

[Too early for flapjacks?]

I'm starting to feel like we missed a trick last season by not using Gini as a number 6 in those games where teams park the bus and we ended up drawing. He is so much more fluid on the ball and getting the attack going through the middle than Henderson. He's such a smart player that can play all 3 roles in midfield.

[elpistolero7]

I'm a big critic of Henderson, but he was critical in us seeing that out. Outstanding pressing when he came on, and directed the team very well. Calming captain's performance.

Wijnaldum I thought was excellent again.

[bravarado7]

Big performance from Gini today. Has gone a level up in terms of taking responsibility.

[Giono]

With Hendo and Gini we professionally closed out that match. We didn’t need to live or die by the keeper or the front 3.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

I’m starting to see that pattern now, it looks like Klopp wants either Milner or Henderson on the pitch at any given time, and i’d go as far as he probably set the two of them as a rotation pairing. If we take the two of them as a constant, then it will be a Lallana, Keita, Wijnaldum and Fabinho for the other two spots.

Keita I think is a lock for one of them, it’s going to be tough competition for the other slot. Wijnaldum looks awfully good at the moment. Not seeing how Fabinho fits in at the moment.

[xbugawugax]

still think its early days. having keita on the pitch with gini and milner/hendo both familiar with Klopp tactics lessen the risk a bit i think.

Fabinho will get some game time when he is accustomed to the team. Maybe in CL where the pace a bit slow or against sides that isn't that much of a threat. Its a long season and surely everyone will get some game time.

[wige]

I’m starting to see that pattern now, it looks like Klopp wants either Milner or Henderson on the pitch at any given time, and i’d go as far as he probably set the two of them as a rotation pairing. If we take the two of them as a constant, then it will be a Lallana, Keita, Wijnaldum and Fabinho for the other two spots.

Keita I think is a lock for one of them, it’s going to be tough competition for the other slot. Wijnaldum looks awfully good at the moment. Not seeing how Fabinho fits in at the moment.

In this part of the season, I don't think we see the starting eleven changed much, if at all. Immediately following the international break, that changes. We're then basically weekend/midweek/weekend/midweek until mid Jan. February? Maybe always if we go deep in league and FA cups. We have a really, really tricky set of fixtures to negotiate around the start of the CL campaign. At least one of those games, I think the first, is flanked by games against City and Chelsea. We play all of the top 6 during that period and also Everton and, I think, Burnley. This is the period when our depth comes into play. Would expect rotation at the level we saw last season, and significant minutes for Fabinho, Lallana, Shaqiri, Sturridge, Clyne and probably Moreno.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The season just started, every one of them will play a part. remember the last three months of the season when we had 3 midfielders out at the same time.

It's a long season. Once September/October comes around, they'll get more than enough and they'll be rotated.

They won't be playing every game.

[Giono]

I’m starting to see that pattern now, it looks like Klopp wants either Milner or Henderson on the pitch at any given time, and i’d go as far as he probably set the two of them as a rotation pairing. If we take the two of them as a constant, then it will be a Lallana, Keita, Wijnaldum and Fabinho for the other two spots.

Keita I think is a lock for one of them, it’s going to be tough competition for the other slot. Wijnaldum looks awfully good at the moment. Not seeing how Fabinho fits in at the moment.

How did you get to that logic? Henderson and Milner to rotate? And the other four compete for 1 space?

I think he is going to go with the 3 that give him the most ballance or 3 that are complimentary to each other. Right now, you could say that about the Keita - Gini - Milner midfield. It’s a well-performing unit.

[Nessy76]

I’m starting to see that pattern now, it looks like Klopp wants either Milner or Henderson on the pitch at any given time, and i’d go as far as he probably set the two of them as a rotation pairing. If we take the two of them as a constant, then it will be a Lallana, Keita, Wijnaldum and Fabinho for the other two spots.

I think it's more likely that he's keeping the more familiar players in the line up while Keita and Fabinho are getting up to speed on being part of the team. As they bed in, there will be a different approach.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

How did you get to that logic? Henderson and Milner to rotate? And the other four compete for 1 space?

I think he is going to go with the 3 that give him the most ballance or 3 that are complimentary to each other. Right now, you could say that about the Keita - Gini - Milner midfield. It’s a well-performing unit.

My logic stems from the fact that Henderson and Milner, as the current senior members in the midfield, are multifunctional in that they also have certain leadership qualities which arguably the remaining midfielders probably don't have yet. It's true that after a bit of time, things may change, but it looks like that is what he wants to go with at the moment.

It is not just about bedding in with squad mates and the styles of play I think, it's also about responsibilites and other aspects which may be needed in games where we need to grind out a result. How to run a game, the tempo, when to set up the press, when to sit and rest, working the referee, dealing with on pitch issues, etc. I think those aspects of the game are still rather underrated by our fans, and specifically Milner and Henderson in terms of their worth to our team. You can see how Milner basically took it on his own to impose his physicality on Zaha during the Palace game. Little things like that which I find to make a big difference to how the opponents deal with us.

Those things obviously can be learned in time, and with intelligent players like Keita, Gini and Fabinho, I think they can affect play in these aspects sooner rather than later. But at this moment, I think Henderson and Milner are still integral to our team with their qualities.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

As the season progresses there will be more and more rotation, we won't be playing with the same 3 game in and game out.

[Nessy76]

As the season progresses there will be more and more rotation, we won't be playing with the same 3 game in and game out.

Absolutely. Once the Champions League starts up, we'll see a few more combos. What's exciting is that we can now build several different midfields for different situations. There's cover, but also genuine alternatives.

We could run a book on when we first see various setups combined. Keita-Gini-Shaqiri anyone?

[hesbighesred]

It was great how fresh and hungry Hendo looked for his palace cameo - and impressive that he made an immediate impact, injecting a lot of pace and purpose into our passing. That really bodes well for the season, competition keeping people fresh and hungry, giving already excellent players even more of an edge - with that same quality to come off the bench.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Absolutely. Once the Champions League starts up, we'll see a few more combos. What's exciting is that we can now build several different midfields for different situations. There's cover, but also genuine alternatives.

We could run a book on when we first see various setups combined. Keita-Gini-Shaqiri anyone?

You could certainly get away with that trio against the likes of Huddersfield

[Tony19:6]

Thought Hendo looked really good when he came on, Klopp obviously giving him more time post WC.

Fab will take a little longer to bed in ala Robbo and the Ox, dunno what the fuss is about with him?

[SWR]

I don't think we will see loads of Henderson/Milner starting together away from home, despite it maybe seeming like the sensible move. Think Klopp enjoys the luxury of being able to bring one of them off the bench to see things out. I suspect this will be Henderson's best season yet with the WC galvanzing him. Also he shouldn't be over exerted physically with the squad depth we have. Could be the perfect storm for him. 

Fabinho will be a success and am quite happy he is being eased in. Looks to be the perfect guy for us in there, with his stature undoubtedly likely to play a key role in some of the more physical aways.

Gini looks like a man who knows he needs a big start to the season. I have a theory that if Pep could sign any of our squad he would go for Gini and play him as a 6. Was worried when their was murmourings of him possibly moving on in the summer. He is showing his worth early doors as he needed to to keep out the likes of Hendo, Lallana and maybe even Shaquiri.

The midfield looks to be a great strength for this season. Options and flexability is something our midfield has been missing for sometime. Long may it continue.

[TomDcs]

Absolutely. Once the Champions League starts up, we'll see a few more combos. What's exciting is that we can now build several different midfields for different situations. There's cover, but also genuine alternatives.

We could run a book on when we first see various setups combined. Keita-Gini-Shaqiri anyone?

On the latter point, can see parallels with when Guardiola started playing (Feb/Mar time last season?) 4 or 5 forwards against the lesser teams. If we build up a head of steam and latter stage CL teams dictate, can see us doing similar where Shaqiri and Gini are nominal midfielders / more involved in the attack.

[SerbianScouser]

I'm anxious to see our midfielders contribute with goals.

2 years ago Gini and Lallana had great numbers but since then we've been a bit goal shy from midfield. It's crucial to make those runs into the box count and relieve some goalscoring burden off our front 3.

[LondonLFCFan]

I'm anxious to see our midfielders contribute with goals.

2 years ago Gini and Lallana had great numbers but since then we've been a bit goal shy from midfield. It's crucial to make those runs into the box count and relieve some goalscoring burden off our front 3.

Same here. Lallana still needs a bit of work to come back to his best. Gini is almost there.

And we really do have quality and quantity in our mid field. What an exciting season this is going to be.

This is the 'engine room' of our team, challenging balls, winning balls and controlling the game, setting the pace and formation. and feeding our front 3. Yes, would be great if the mid field could add a few goals when we need to break down the teams that park their bus. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I'm anxious to see our midfielders contribute with goals.

2 years ago Gini and Lallana had great numbers but since then we've been a bit goal shy from midfield. It's crucial to make those runs into the box count and relieve some goalscoring burden off our front 3.

Once Keita settles, I imagine he will contribute, perhaps Gini as well, along with Lallana

[joekim87]

How good is Gini. He is a 'midfielder'. He can fulfill any role or duty in midfield. What a quality player and signing. Long gone are the days of Charlie Adam and co...

[DanA]

Just my opinion but I think Gini was moved to DM because Hendo wasn’t physically ready, the word cup meant he was late to pre-season and a slight hammy twinge in the semi. While Fabinho still has some adjustment to get up to speed.

I’m expecting Hendo to start next game and Gini/Milner to compete for a place next to Keita. I’m leaning towards Milner based on the first two games.

Fabinho will start the cups IMO and build from there.

[JC the Messiah]

Think Klopp will be looking at rotation of the midfield, especially Milner and Henderson so that they don't tire over the season, and specifically with Henderson, that he doesn't aggravate any injury problems that would see an extended absence.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Milner rested on Saturday, with Henderson and Gini in the side along with Keita. I'm sure Klopp is also keen to give Shaqiri and Lallana some game-time, especially against the low-block sides.

Then there's Fabinho, who I think will feature more and more once Klopp thinks his fitness is at the required level. If they're all fit, it's a nice headache for Klopp to have, and we'll probably see different midfield lineups for different types of opponent - horses for courses.

Saying that, I'm not sure if Keita will be "rotated" out of the side that often, particularly in the league and CL games?

[kcbworth]

All this talk about options, imagine Ox wasn't injured as well!

[JC the Messiah]

All this talk about options, imagine Ox wasn't injured as well!

Had forgotten about him! Would definitely strengthen the options. When is his expected return date? Not that Klopp will risk rushing him back in.

[El Lobo]

All this talk about options, imagine Ox wasn't injured as well!

Think its almost a good thing he's injured actually

If he was fit and firing, with Keita coming in, it'd be so much carnage I think it might cause quite a few Liverpool fans to spontaneously combust and none of us want that.

[killer-heels]

Wont be long until Henderson is back in as first choice. He was very good against Palace when he came on.

[Tony19:6]

Wont be long until Henderson is back in as first choice. He was very good against Palace when he came on.

He was, will be interesting when Fabinho is fully up to speed too.

Haven't seen much of the latter myself but have heard very good things.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

Posted this in the Brazilian Porn (Gini) thread  but it's better suited here:

I've been thinking about how our midfield complement each other and come to the conclusion (possibly completely incorrectly), that Keita would benefit more from playing closer to Salah, and Gini closer to Mane. Let me explain:

Salah is our man for stretching play, constantly making runs beyond the oppo defence, stretching the play, creating space behind him. To make the most of those runs you would want the #8 nearest to him to be good at throughballs. Be a good dribbler to take advantage of the space in his wake, and someone who can burst through the opposition lines with the ball, following the havoc created by Salah's movement.

On the other hand, Mane, whilst also a player not averse to running behind and with excellent movement, prefers the ball into feet. His little bursts beyond the fullback or between FB and CB tend to be more to create space for himself to then drop off and recieve the ball into feet (although not always, as seen on Monday!). He is possibly the best dribbler in the league, able to constantly get his opponent on the back foot, and with the pace and balance to go either outside, or cut inside onto his favoured right foot. Given this, his nearest #8 needs only to play short balls into his feet (not slide-rule throughballs), would benefit Mane by making runs beyond him to help open up more space, and won't have as much space (on the inside) to dribble in compared to Salah's side of the pitch.

It makes sense in my head that Keita would be best suited to support Salah and Gini to support Mane.

So why is this not the case?
Is Keita being paired up with Mane to help him settle (their familiarity from their Salzberg days and friendship off the pitch are well documented)?
Is it just because Gini has been mostly deployed as the deeper player (#6) in the absence of Fab and Hendo from the starting 11, and as soon as either are back Gini will move behind Mane and Keita across to Salah's side?
Is it because Gini and Salah have built up a great complimentary relationship on the field which caused absolute havoc at the back end of last season?
Or is it cos i'm just some guy on the internet who thinks he knows about football but doesn't realise how limited his knowledge really is?

Anyone help? Cheers 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Had forgotten about him! Would definitely strengthen the options. When is his expected return date? Not that Klopp will risk rushing him back in.

Probably not this year mate. Btw how are the lads over there at Talk LFC? 

[hitnrock]

Posted this in the Brazilian Porn (Gini) thread  but it's better suited here:

I've been thinking about how our midfield complement each other and come to the conclusion (possibly completely incorrectly), that Keita would benefit more from playing closer to Salah, and Gini closer to Mane. Let me explain:

Salah is our man for stretching play, constantly making runs beyond the oppo defence, stretching the play, creating space behind him. To make the most of those runs you would want the #8 nearest to him to be good at throughballs. Be a good dribbler to take advantage of the space in his wake, and someone who can burst through the opposition lines with the ball, following the havoc created by Salah's movement.

On the other hand, Mane, whilst also a player not averse to running behind and with excellent movement, prefers the ball into feet. His little bursts beyond the fullback or between FB and CB tend to be more to create space for himself to then drop off and recieve the ball into feet (although not always, as seen on Monday!). He is possibly the best dribbler in the league, able to constantly get his opponent on the back foot, and with the pace and balance to go either outside, or cut inside onto his favoured right foot. Given this, his nearest #8 needs only to play short balls into his feet (not slide-rule throughballs), would benefit Mane by making runs beyond him to help open up more space, and won't have as much space (on the inside) to dribble in compared to Salah's side of the pitch.

It makes sense in my head that Keita would be best suited to support Salah and Gini to support Mane.

So why is this not the case?
Is Keita being paired up with Mane to help him settle (their familiarity from their Salzberg days and friendship off the pitch are well documented)?
Is it just because Gini has been mostly deployed as the deeper player (#6) in the absence of Fab and Hendo from the starting 11, and as soon as either are back Gini will move behind Mane and Keita across to Salah's side?
Is it because Gini and Salah have built up a great complimentary relationship on the field which caused absolute havoc at the back end of last season?
Or is it cos i'm just some guy on the internet who thinks he knows about football but doesn't realise how limited his knowledge really is?

Anyone help? Cheers 

I think it might be because Salah does less defensive work and so the No. 8/10 on his side of the pitch has to cover both him and Trent who is also very offensive. Milner makes perfect sense in this situation as he's very good at all the things his position will demand of him i.e crossing/covering the full back and being a reliable pass option as we don't want to lose the ball on that side.

I totally expect Gini to be used there once Fabinho or Henderson make the No. 6 position theirs as he's very tactically smart and is as good as or better than Milner in most things except for maybe crossing.


Besides Keita might need help from Sadio in terms of tactical instructions due to language barrier. Keita also played left-wing sort of position at times for RBL, so it suits him more.
Sadio, Keita & Robertson are all more balanced on the other side and are all equally hard working in both phases of the game, so would really make the left side deadly.
I think.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Hazell]

Think its almost a good thing he's injured actually

If he was fit and firing, with Keita coming in, it'd be so much carnage I think it might cause quite a few Liverpool fans to spontaneously combust and none of us want that.

Depends which Liverpool fans you're talking about.

[LondonLFCFan]

Depends which Liverpool fans you're talking about.

The what ifs lol ?

Would have achieved more and the CL title if Ox was not injured ?
Klopp must have been pissed off with only 3 in the midfield left in the end. That is probably why we bought in 3 midfielders so we won't have that again ever. Never make the same mistake twice 

[LallanaInPyjamas]

snip

My take would be that it probably mostly comes down to the simple fact that Naby prefers the left-side of the pitch, and as the most talented of our central midfielders, we're building around him in that area of the pitch.

Like a lot of right-footed attacking players, he seems to prefer receiving the ball on the 'wrong' side of the pitch so that passing, dribbling and shooting avenues are more open to him. If you take his brilliantly lofted through ball to Salah the other night as an example, that might've been a lot harder to execute from the other side of the pitch. In that sense, it probably actually suits us for him to be on the 'opposite' side of the pitch to Salah. If you think Coutinho/Sturridge in 12/13 and 13/14, it was often those through balls from left to right which proved such a potent combination.

I also think his introduction to the team should allow Mané to stay a little higher and a little wider where he can really hurt teams, because Keita is so comfortable receiving the ball between the lines, meaning Mané shouldn't have to drop quite so deep in order to get himself touches on the ball.

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

My take would be that it probably mostly comes down to the simple fact that Naby prefers the left-side of the pitch, and as the most talented of our central midfielders, we're building around him in that area of the pitch.

Like a lot of right-footed attacking players, he seems to prefer receiving the ball on the 'wrong' side of the pitch so that passing, dribbling and shooting avenues are more open to him. If you take his brilliantly lofted through ball to Salah the other night as an example, that might've been a lot harder to execute from the other side of the pitch. In that sense, it probably actually suits us for him to be on the 'opposite' side of the pitch to Salah. If you think Coutinho/Sturridge in 12/13 and 13/14, it was often those through balls from left to right which proved such a potent combination.

I also think his introduction to the team should allow Mané to stay a little higher and a little wider where he can really hurt teams, because Keita is so comfortable receiving the ball between the lines, meaning Mané shouldn't have to drop quite so deep in order to get himself touches on the ball.

Good point, well made! 

Coutinho ----> Salah was a killer in the little time it had. Keita's through balls tend to be quite different, played on the dribble, attracting defenders towards himself freeing up the players in front of him, whilst Coutinho's would often be from a standing start with his head up looking for a runner.

I can see Mane getting in Keita's way a little bit when he's on the dribble (which we've seen very little of so far), so we need them to get an understanding going pretty quickly to utilise both players strengths to the maximum. If it clicks, it will be phenomenal 

Will be interesting to see how it evolves.

[hesbighesred]

Good point, well made! 

Coutinho ----> Salah was a killer in the little time it had. Keita's through balls tend to be quite different, played on the dribble, attracting defenders towards himself freeing up the players in front of him, whilst Coutinho's would often be from a standing start with his head up looking for a runner.

I can see Mane getting in Keita's way a little bit when he's on the dribble (which we've seen very little of so far), so we need them to get an understanding going pretty quickly to utilise both players strengths to the maximum. If it clicks, it will be phenomenal 

Will be interesting to see how it evolves.

The potential ability they have in terms of swapping positions is really interesting too - like Keita's such a pressing demon with immense close control, where Mane is an explosive madhouse with a range of finishes absolutely unmatched in the squad (and probably the league, for that matter - he can and does try anything off both feet with regular success). If they can develop that understanding of how to play in similar zones and cover for each other rather than getting in each other's way, well...that's a fucking terrifying prospect for any team isn't it? Their full-back suddenly being pressed by Keita instead of Mane, who passes inside to a Mane who's looking to run in behind and twat it first-time rather than a Keita whose instinct would probably be to look for the pass first...

[Djozer]

Just my opinion but I think Gini was moved to DM because Hendo wasn’t physically ready, the word cup meant he was late to pre-season and a slight hammy twinge in the semi. While Fabinho still has some adjustment to get up to speed.

I’m expecting Hendo to start next game and Gini/Milner to compete for a place next to Keita. I’m leaning towards Milner based on the first two games.

Reckon you're right and Hendo will start the next one, though I think I'd probably go for Gini over Milner, as I thought he was better against palace. Milner was brilliant against West Ham mind, so I'd have no real complaints either way, though I think Gini might be a better bet if we're looking for midfield goals from open play.

Really excited to see what Fabinho brings to the team. Intrigued to see which of him and Hendo play deeper, if and when they start together. Haven't seen Hendo as an 8 for a while really, so I wonder how he'll be at it these days. Wonder where lallana gets his games and he hasn't looked great in his most recent cameos, but it was a hell of a long layoff he suffered so it's maybe understandable. Would love it if he could somehow regain his 16/17 form as that would solve a lot of problems, but I've no idea whether he can reach that level again. Great to have so many options, but it still feels like the midfield is a work in progress and may well be for a while.