Author Topic: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February  (Read 45677 times)

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1400 on: February 11, 2019, 10:23:30 pm »
Even Rafa said it wasn't a foul.
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Offline Reese

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1401 on: February 11, 2019, 10:24:31 pm »
Reminds me of our late winning goal against Everton that was called off years ago.

Neither were a foul.  :P


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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1402 on: February 11, 2019, 10:24:38 pm »
Even Rafa said it wasn't a foul.

It’s never a foul

I just thought he was pissed off about the time
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1403 on: February 11, 2019, 10:26:43 pm »
I didn't time how long the sub took. But if the sub took 45 seconds then 45 seconds should be added. Games never get stopped when a team is attacking either.

The way I understand it is 30 seconds for a sub, no matter how long the sub takes. There wasn't anything else that happened that could've added on time. You'll see countless games with 6 subs in the second half and maybe two goals but only 2 minutes added on, there's no explanation as for why the rules aren't applied on these occasions though. Again it's about consistency.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline rushyman

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1404 on: February 11, 2019, 10:29:27 pm »
I didn't time how long the sub took. But if the sub took 45 seconds then 45 seconds should be added. Games never get stopped when a team is attacking either.

It’s 30 secs irrespective

Which I’ve always found odd as it’s something that can be toyed with by teams. Take a min to go off etc
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Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1405 on: February 11, 2019, 10:29:37 pm »
The way I understand it is 30 seconds for a sub, no matter how long the sub takes. There wasn't anything else that happened that could've added on time. You'll see countless games with 6 subs in the second half and maybe two goals but only 2 minutes added on, there's no explanation as for why the rules aren't applied on these occasions though. Again it's about consistency.

So you agree 30 seconds in addition to the initial 4. That brings us up to 94 minutes 30. The goal was scored after 94 minutes 34 seconds. You really think the ref should have blown just as the cross is about to come in? When do games ever end just as the ball is about to be crossed in? That never happens. They always let that final attack play out.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1406 on: February 11, 2019, 10:37:33 pm »
So you agree 30 seconds in addition to the initial 4. That brings us up to 94 minutes 30. The goal was scored after 94 minutes 34 seconds. You really think the ref should have blown just as the cross is about to come in? When do games ever end just as the ball is about to be crossed in? That never happens. They always let that final attack play out.

This isn't true, they sometimes do they sometimes don't. That's where my problem lies, consistency is all anyone asks for. You could say there's a headless chicken running down a blind alley at 94.30, blow the game up then. It only becomes 'the last attack' after the ball is crossed, before that there was another 'last attack' and before that again there was another 'last attack'. How much time did the ref add on after the goal? Supposed to be a minute I think.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1407 on: February 11, 2019, 10:41:55 pm »
This isn't true, they sometimes do they sometimes don't. That's where my problem lies,
Yeh, it's not so common now, but it used to be an occasional 'thing' when the ref would blow up as the ball was in mid-air, mid-flight, even occasionally when it was clearly on its way into the net. I remember at least one or two of the last situation, years ago.
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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1408 on: February 11, 2019, 10:43:14 pm »
Its true, some of the angles are pretty deceiving and iy doesn't look like bolys done much of anything but i was able to stop the "film" at a point where Bolys falling backwards on his way down, hes got his left hand clutching D's left shoulder underneath his armpit and hes got his right arm in a military style salute , straight across d's nose and eyes.

Bolys left hand pivots Dubvraka around and the right hand completely unsights him. Unsurprisingly he misses the ball.

Took frame-by-frame, but the ball goes right through the Dubvraka wickets for a convert, hits Boly full in the face right on the nose, bounces back, hits Dubvraka on the head and goes in. Unreal.

Just your basic mishit  whipped cross floater right through the wickets nose smash unsighted  head ricochet just under the crossbar beauty
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Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1409 on: February 11, 2019, 10:48:44 pm »
Yeh, it's not so common now, but it used to be an occasional 'thing' when the ref would blow up as the ball was in mid-air, mid-flight, even occasionally when it was clearly on its way into the net. I remember at least one or two of the last situation, years ago.

If the ball is on its way into the net and the ref blows the whistle, it's a goal.
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Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1410 on: February 11, 2019, 10:49:40 pm »
This isn't true, they sometimes do they sometimes don't. That's where my problem lies, consistency is all anyone asks for. You could say there's a headless chicken running down a blind alley at 94.30, blow the game up then. It only becomes 'the last attack' after the ball is crossed, before that there was another 'last attack' and before that again there was another 'last attack'. How much time did the ref add on after the goal? Supposed to be a minute I think.

The goal was scored just as time was up. No extra time gets added.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1411 on: February 11, 2019, 11:00:02 pm »
The goal was scored just as time was up. No extra time gets added.

The goal was scored after time was up. That's an important difference.

 
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1412 on: February 11, 2019, 11:01:59 pm »
If the ball is on its way into the net and the ref blows the whistle, it's a goal.

Even if it hasn't crossed the line? I'd be intrigued to see that backed up.

I was referring to one or two dimly remembered instances when a shot was taken towards goal that looked likely to go in but the whistle was blown before it could reach the line. I think David Ellery was ref on one such occasion...
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Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1413 on: February 11, 2019, 11:07:56 pm »
Even if it hasn't crossed the line? I'd be intrigued to see that backed up.

I was referring to one or two dimly remembered instances when a shot was taken towards goal that looked likely to go in but the whistle was blown before it could reach the line. I think David Ellery was ref on one such occasion...

Unless the rules have changed in that regard, a goal should be awarded if the ref blows the whistle after the shot is taken, but before the ball goes in.
One such controversy was us v Everton. 0-0 or 1-1 and they had a shot which went in. Final whistle was blown. They argued the shot was taken before the whistle but the ref said no. Around 2000 I think?


Was at Goodison in 2000. Westerveld hit it off their player and the ball rolled in.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 11:10:48 pm by For now. »
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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1414 on: February 11, 2019, 11:14:36 pm »
Unless the rules have changed in that regard, a goal should be awarded if the ref blows the whistle after the shot is taken, but before the ball goes in.
One such controversy was us v Everton. 0-0 or 1-1 and they had a shot which went in. Final whistle was blown. They argued the shot was taken before the whistle but the ref said no. Around 2000 I think?


Was at Goodison in 2000. Westerveld hit it off their player and the ball rolled in.

Good Friday night I think. As you say Westerveld kicked it into their player (Hutchison) so wasn’t like he shot and then he blew. Think the ref bottled it slightly and called it full time rather than having to make a decision on whether Hutchison has impeded him or not (pretty sure he hadn’t).

Christ that feels a long time ago. First Derby of the millennium. Just think, they could have beaten us four times in the League this century had that been allowed to stand. :D

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1415 on: February 11, 2019, 11:18:21 pm »
Good Friday night I think. As you say Westerveld kicked it into their player (Hutchison) so wasn’t like he shot and then he blew. Think the ref bottled it slightly and called it full time rather than having to make a decision on whether Hutchison has impeded him or not (pretty sure he hadn’t).

Christ that feels a long time ago. First Derby of the millennium. Just think, they could have beaten us four times in the League this century had that been allowed to stand. :D

Funny reading back about that. They were as bitter then as they are now  :D
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Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1416 on: February 11, 2019, 11:26:30 pm »
Even if it hasn't crossed the line? I'd be intrigued to see that backed up.

I was referring to one or two dimly remembered instances when a shot was taken towards goal that looked likely to go in but the whistle was blown before it could reach the line. I think David Ellery was ref on one such occasion...

Still trying to find something to back this up. I'm certain I haven't made it up  ;D
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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1417 on: February 11, 2019, 11:32:40 pm »
Still trying to find something to back this up. I'm certain I haven't made it up  ;D

The famous one was the English (maybe Welsh) ref who disallowed a goal at the World Cup. Think it was Brazil v Sweden andhe blew for half time as a corner was being swung in. It was headed in but the goal didn’t stand.

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1418 on: February 11, 2019, 11:37:20 pm »
The famous one was the English (maybe Welsh) ref who disallowed a goal at the World Cup. Think it was Brazil v Sweden andhe blew for half time as a corner was being swung in. It was headed in but the goal didn’t stand.

Clive Thomas. Yeah, but he blew as the ball was in the air from the corner and before the header. Daft decision.

There's this one https://twitter.com/WorkTheSpace/status/706190822899892228?s=19 Ref seems to blow just as the shot is being taken
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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1419 on: February 11, 2019, 11:37:24 pm »
The famous one was the English (maybe Welsh) ref who disallowed a goal at the World Cup. Think it was Brazil v Sweden andhe blew for half time as a corner was being swung in. It was headed in but the goal didn’t stand.

Clive Thomas.

Think it was end of the game and Brazil had scored from the corner.

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1420 on: February 11, 2019, 11:39:52 pm »
Unless the rules have changed in that regard, a goal should be awarded if the ref blows the whistle after the shot is taken, but before the ball goes in.
One such controversy was us v Everton. 0-0 or 1-1 and they had a shot which went in. Final whistle was blown. They argued the shot was taken before the whistle but the ref said no. Around 2000 I think?


Was at Goodison in 2000. Westerveld hit it off their player and the ball rolled in.
Interesting. If anyone has a clear ruling on this, I'd appreciate it.

There was Zico's headed non-goal for Brazil, of course, where Clive Thomas blew the whistle a second before Zizo 'scored', but I can't recall if the player had actually headed the ball when the whistle went, or whether he made contact after the whistle. A lot can happen in a second at that speed.

EDIT: just seen the replies above
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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1421 on: February 12, 2019, 12:14:39 am »
Clive Thomas broke Dave Whelan's leg in the FA Cup Final... :wave
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Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1422 on: February 12, 2019, 07:19:23 am »
Interesting. If anyone has a clear ruling on this, I'd appreciate it.

There was Zico's headed non-goal for Brazil, of course, where Clive Thomas blew the whistle a second before Zizo 'scored', but I can't recall if the player had actually headed the ball when the whistle went, or whether he made contact after the whistle. A lot can happen in a second at that speed.

EDIT: just seen the replies above

I can't find anything to back myself up. Beginning to think I've made it up  ;D
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Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1423 on: February 12, 2019, 10:35:47 am »
That was a cracking game last night, thoroughly enjoyable, Newcastle played well and were unlucky against a good team who also played well. I've watched Newcastle a few times this season and thought they were unlucky on a few occasions, I don't think their league position is a true reflection on how well they've played. On the face of it, the keeper definitely cost them a point over the weekend and arguably two points last night, although the Wolves keeper also didn't cover himself in glory. I didn't think it was a foul, but wouldn't have been surprised if it had been given as a foul and as other have pointed out VAR would probably have over turned the goal. However I don't think it would necessarily have been over turned for the right reasons but more to do with the incident looking worse when slowed down. We have a very good TV review system in cricket, its almost perfect but its taken many iterations to get right. One of its flaws was that when there was a review to see if a catch had carried to a fielder, the slow-mo, magnified image always looked worse than the real time action in terms of whether the catch was taken cleanly. Cricketers are usually pretty honest about claiming a clean catch and when I've seen some catches over turned you can tell by the players reactions that its a reviewing mistake. They've since changed the system in that the on field umpire gives a 'soft' signal about the catch and unless there is conclusive TV review evidence, the decision quite rightly goes with the on field umpire.

In terms of the timekeeping last night, the added on time felt slightly too long, but then again Newcastle spent a lot of time farting about with substitutions on the 90 minutes mark, so I guess they got what they deserved, let’s face it substitutions at that point are all about time wasting. I believe there is a new rule coming in (proposed?) that you will not be allowed to make a substitution during injury time which is the right thing to do. As others have pointed out, the time keeping should be taken completely out of the hands of the referee, it’s just being used as yet another stick to beat the poor sods with, when the real culprits are the players and managers. When you look at the time keeping and reviewing systems for a multitude of other sports around the world, you realise how backwards football is in the way its run, again that’s not helped by the players some of whom still argue with a referee after a goal line technology decision! I really don’t see any reason why we can’t have a separate time keeper, preferably anonymous, sat in the stand watching the game and pausing the clock for stoppages. Every ground now has a big screen and the clock could be displayed on that with an indication that the game is paused, they could even have a separate timer for substitutes and take action against players taking longer than 30 seconds to get off the field. The problem is how far do you take it? If they paused for corners and throw in’s I’m sure it would add at least 10-15 minutes onto every game as I think I remember reading once that on average the ball is only in play for sixty odd minutes at a football game.             
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Re: Premier League Fixtures 9 February - 11 February
« Reply #1424 on: February 12, 2019, 10:42:58 am »
I can't find anything to back myself up. Beginning to think I've made it up  ;D

Not the most reliable source but Clive Thomas' Wikipedia page backs you up;

Two years later, at the World Cup in Argentina, he officiated the Round 1 match between Brazil and Sweden, in which he infamously blew the whistle for full time during a play from a corner kick (something which is not in accordance with the rules; any offensive play must run its course before the referee can blow for time), thus disallowing the late goal Zico scored on the occasion, which would give Brazil a 2-1 win.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Thomas