Author Topic: Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency  (Read 199275 times)

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2013, 10:34:49 am »
Thanks - I'll read through that later.
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Offline danwms

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2013, 10:42:32 am »
Really struggling to find a site that lets you deposit cash to buy coins.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #82 on: April 11, 2013, 01:59:18 pm »
is this some modern day South Sea Bubble?
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Offline Walshy7

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2013, 01:59:34 pm »
£100 now, so tempted as going to go up again but looks long winded to actually buy the frigging things
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #84 on: April 11, 2013, 08:16:13 pm »
We've had a chat in the staff room. As long as this is about the philosophy and technology behind Bitcoin we're happy to host the discussion. If it degenerates into an Amway style get rich quick discussion we'll fuck it off sharpish.

Carry on.
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Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #85 on: April 11, 2013, 08:42:37 pm »
We've had a chat in the staff room. As long as this is about the philosophy and technology behind Bitcoin we're happy to host the discussion. If it degenerates into an Amway style get rich quick discussion we'll fuck it off sharpish.

Carry on.

Fair play Alan.

I've removed any posts I made regarding how to purchase Bitcoins and discussion of that nature - though I've always said not to touch it with a barge poll right now anyway.

Back on topic, I think the biggest problem with Bitcoins right now is it's a decentralised currency/commodity running through a centralised exchange - MtGox. They deal with over 80% of all trade and they've been unable to cope with the excessive demand which caused their website to crash and people to panic sell, now they've ceased trading for a day or so to stabilise the market.

https://support.mtgox.com/entries/21519569-Market-Cooldown-for-12-hours

So what we have now is the market crashing hard, BTC has gone from a high of $260 to a low of $50 (on Bitstamp.net). It's a massive crash but I expect it to settle something closer to $100 within the next few days.

Hopefully this will put a sting in the volatile buying and people hoping to get rich quick, remember Bitcoins have been pretty stable for years until recently. You can't use it as a currency in its current state, how could a merchant keep up?
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #86 on: April 11, 2013, 11:09:41 pm »
is this some modern day South Sea Bubble?

Or Tulip Mania

Offline Marty 85

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #87 on: April 11, 2013, 11:54:34 pm »
We've had a chat in the staff room. As long as this is about the philosophy and technology behind Bitcoin we're happy to host the discussion. If it degenerates into an Amway style get rich quick discussion we'll fuck it off sharpish.

Carry on.

Thanks. I didn't mean, or intend for it to descend into that kind of discussion, if that's how it came across.

Or Tulip Mania

I've been trying to work out where I first learned of Tulipc Mania. I only just remembered it was in Wall Street 2. Gordon has one framed in his apartment and explains a little bit about it.

It was a bubble no doubt but could it be compared to BTC? Yeah the basic principles of supply and demand lead to their increase in value. Although, there can only be a set amount of 21million ever produced. Will that in itself not further contribute to their rise in demand and therefore the price increase per BTC?

It's interesting because there's never been anything like this before. Expert economists don't even know how it will play out.

They appear volatile but is that only due to these recent spate of DDOS attacks? If that is the case then it's expected that when Mtgox opens trading again their price will continue to rise back up to, and beyond their recent high.

This isn't good for anyone except speculative investors. They become difficult to buy and exchange for goods or services and their sole purpose and function then has changed.

This is where i think BTC draws alot of comparisons to precious metals. As it wasn't practical to haul large amounts of metal around with you, Fiat currency was introduced. Fiat currency is practical, whereas BTC if it continues to rise in price, won't be.

I think BTC will be the birth of cryptocurrency. I think it will eventually fade but an improved version of it will over at some point which will somehow safegaurd against this type of volatility and greed that we're seeing now. I already know of Litecoin and Bytecoin.

Offline Noelle

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #88 on: April 12, 2013, 01:03:15 am »
It's interesting because there's never been anything like this before.

Except...there has been. Private currencies have always existed, and before the invention of central banks all currency was unregulated. And ultimately the problem with bitcoin isn't it isn't a currency. Nor is it an investment. It's a commodity masquerading as private currency, which is already beginning to encounter the classic problems of both deflationary and fixed-supply currencies, which bitcoin always set out to be from square one.

Offline Marty 85

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #89 on: April 12, 2013, 02:24:08 am »
When you say private currency what do you mean, could you give me an example? The difference with BTC is that it's a decentralised virtual monetary tool and that's what makes it unique. It's available to everyone the world over. I don't think there's been anything like it before to take advantage of this digital age.

Do you think anything can be done to counter this deflationary spiral that BTC is on and if BTC is considered a commodity, is deflation not beneficial to it?

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #90 on: April 12, 2013, 04:06:33 am »
from $50 to $120 in about 5 hours, who'd be a gambler eh?
:D

Offline Noelle

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #91 on: April 12, 2013, 06:07:34 am »
When you say private currency what do you mean, could you give me an example? The difference with BTC is that it's a decentralised virtual monetary tool and that's what makes it unique. It's available to everyone the world over. I don't think there's been anything like it before to take advantage of this digital age.

That it's virtual is the only thing that makes it unique. The nature of its generation makes it unique. The actual application, the nature of its existence, the lack of a central regulatory authority, the deflationary nature and wild shocks in price, all old hat.

Private currency is any currency issued by a private organization or independent of government. The most bone basic, rudimentary example of a private currency is the stereotype of cigarettes in prison. But a private currency can be just about anything, issued by anyone. Some resemble legitimate currency. Until recently, there was effectively an alternative USD called the Liberty Dollar. Actual coins and paper backed by a bimetal standard. (It was also, in this case, completely shut down and considered a crime, but it's a good example of something akin to actual currency)

Quote
Do you think anything can be done to counter this deflationary spiral that BTC is on and if BTC is considered a commodity, is deflation not beneficial to it?

The only way to counter it is to completely change the nature of the currency. Bitcoins are fixed-supply in order to combat inflation. The problem with fixed-supply currency is, well, it's fixed-supply. As your economy grows, if you don't inject new currency into the system or your currency's growth doesn't keep pace with the growth of the economy, it leads to a deflationary system. Yesterday, two bitcoins might have been enough to buy, say, a loaf of bread. Now you can get three times as much bread for the same price. That's a great thing for you, right? But the deflation of fixed-supply currencies encourage hoarding, something which we're already seeing with bitcoins. Prices decrease relative to the value of the coin, and people begin hoarding it expecting that if they wait a bit longer, they will be able to buy even more or cash in for a higher return on investment. As you remove money from circulation, it further increases the value of the currency in circulation, which encourages more people to hoard. Eventually, everyone or almost everyone begins hoarding. Circulation stops. Circulation is the whole point of currency; to facilitate transaction after transaction after transaction. The moment money stops circulating, it has no function. A currency without function has no value. A currency without value is a scrap of toilet paper, and a virtual currency without value is a meaningless line of code. No, it doesn't happen overnight, but without a central regulatory authority or the capacity to introduce new levels of currency into circulation, there is nothing you can do to stop hoarding except ask nicely and pray for people to spend it.

Another problem with making bitcoins fixed-supply is that that is completely artificial. The developer (or, more probably, group of developers under a singular pseudonym) can and has imposed an artificial cap. And, hey, that's great. I mean, not so much, but you want to limit the supply of your currency that's your business. You might not be able to create bona fide bitcoins, but the thing about bitcoins is they're completely artificial. It's all virtual, and it's not actually backed by anything (e.g. specie). There's no reason to assume anyone who is willing to accept bitcoins will not accept knockoffs. Which, again, is a problem due to the absence of a central regulatory authority. A government can up and decide you can't accept any currency that is not the currency of the sovereign state in which you reside. Anyone tries to use a private currency, you shut that shit down. A government can up and decide creating or issuing your own currency is illegal -- which is exactly what happened in the case of the Liberty Dollar. Nakamoto doesn't possess anywhere near that degree of control over the completely volatile and independent marketplace of the internet. The supply of bitcoins is already artificially narrow courtesy of the developer's plans, and now is further contracted by hoarding, and hey presto! Johnny Code Monkey makes his bitcoin knockoff, it starts taking off, and some of the places and people that accept bitcoins start accepting it. Suddenly the value of bitcoins start sinking rapidly because they aren't the only currency on the block, and the lack of circulation means they can't compete.

Hoarding is the whole reason BTC is so high in valuation right now, and it's also an artificial valuation on the part of the people behind it and dealing in it based on an overly optimistic assessment of the currency. Bitcoins have no real value as a store of wealth* (see: circulation problem), and, moreover, investing in any currency is stupid. Currency has no productive value. Currency is a medium of exchange, intended to facilitate transactions and nothing else. And the people valuing bitcoins didn't assess it as such. Any currency you come up with is going to be convertible in terms of USD so long as USD is the universal standard, which it is at the moment. Your assessment has to work in terms of USD, not BTC, and it has to be measured in terms of the velocity of the currency against the totality in circulation. People didn't take into account hoarding and in particular the effects of hoarding on fixed-supply currency, and assumed there would just be this magical circulating currency that keeps relative pace with the growth of its economy, if not matches pace outright. A lot of speculators had their assessment at about one hundredfold, and some went super fucking unrealistically high.

Rampant speculation is another problem, by the way, and part of why the market continues to be even more volatile. It's fucking ridiculous how some speculators react. The convertability goes from $150 to $148 and people start fleeing, which causes another temporary plummet in value and more people leave in droves, and it takes time for it to stabilize. And even then it doesn't really stabilize, because there is literally nothing to make it stable. Even something as simple as affixing the price to gold (which is, historically, not the most stable) would go a long way towards preventing things like the events of today -- where at lowest it had lost 61% of value from its peak, and has when last I heard "stablizied" at almost $100 less than where it was at its apex. That 61% isn't over a sustained period, it's a market shock. And the nature of how bitcoins work also facilitates those shocks. The record of past trade is requisite on all (or at least a consensus) of miners accepting it. Any sizable disagreement means there's no way to be certain what transactions have or have not actually occurred, so it's fucking impossible to measure the actual fluctuations in value.

Bitcoins are literally impossible to actually value. Valuing bitcoins is like valuing gold or silver or copper, except there is no genuine historical basis to run off of. We'll come back to this in a sec.

Another thing on the hoarding note. It's impossible to know who's actually hoarding, and what currency has been lost because of disk failures etc. etc. Because bitcoins are fixed-supply, any lost currency is lost in aeternum, and lost currency is the same as hoarded currency in that it is not in circulation, and therefore facilitates deflation. But because it is not able to be put back into circulation, it creates perpetual deflation relative to the value of the lost coins. So the actual deflation bitcoins are experiencing is in fact probably quite worse than all reports suggest, but it's impossible to know who's sitting on their money and what's just straight gone. And the incentive to hoard negates its purposes as currency. I know I'm repeating myself a bit but currency is about transactions. The point of the monetary system it rests on is transactions. It's not to make you rich it's to distribute wealth across the system. That doesn't have to be equally, or fairly, or whatever, but pooling it defeats the purpose.

*I know, I know. Money as a store of value is actually kind of how we measure the valuation of money. But people are treating bitcoins in and of themself as a kind of stock, or investment. Generally unless you're a sovereign nation buying up debt, you don't actual invest in currency. You don't take a $10 bill and put it under your mattress and expect to cash in at a market high when the value of that $10 magically becomes $300. You invest it in something, something relative to something productive, that will see the total valuation and the valuation of your investment increase.

But because it's being treated as an investment, it is an investment. And that makes it not a currency. It's a commodity. A stock. It may not necessarily be a bubble (if it isn't, it's remarkably close), but it is bad. Now to come back to the inability to value thing. The value of a conventional stock is relative to cash. What's the stock worth now vs. the expected future cash flows of whoever you're investing in. Walmart generates cash flows. Woolworths used to generate cash flows. Bitcoins don't. Bitcoins are a thing. Just like gold doesn't generate cash because gold is a thing. We value gold by guessing how much someone will be willing to pay for it. And it's the same thing for bitcoins. And because there is no base to it, nothing backing it, the value of a bitcoin can be whatever you assess it to be. You just have to persuade someone (or, preferably, a lot of people) that your assessment is correct, or at least less wrong than the other guy's. That's an upside from the standpoint of, well, investing because if you can convince someone that tomorrow your store of bitcoins should be worth $4,500 then conflatulations, you've just made a big return on investment (if you haven't, stop everything). But that's a terrible thing in the long term, that's a terrible thing for stability, that's a terrible thing for currency and that's why it is not a currency. The deflationary status intrinsic to it further undermines its status as a currency. Deflation is bad. A little eensy bit of deflation now and again can be good, but sustained deflation is toxic. Deflationary spirals are destructive. Anything which assumes deflation as its nature is doomed to failure. You don't necessarily need a central bank, as such, but you do need the capacity to introduce new money into the market beyond and at a rate greater to what the bitcoin schedule is.

Again, a central -- and I would argue the chief -- problem to this unregulated currency is the lack of backing. It is fiat money. Fiat money without the power of a sovereign behind it is meaningless. And, again, it's open to all kinds of crazy shocks. If tomorrow Uncle Sam or John Bull decide bitcoins ought to be illegal, that's going to be a big hit to the market. In the case of the former, it would actually probably completely end bitcoins entirely. (And, let's remember, bitcoins' biggest market is Silk Road, which is effectively one giant internet drug trade, which would gleefully be the target of many a government) Get something behind it so it stabilizes. The volatility of bitcoins right now is ludicrous. It's at least twenty to thirty times that of the USD. Stable currency is the only meaningful currency, otherwise people abandon it and it stops being currency, just toilet paper.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2013, 06:07:47 pm »
The volatility of bitcoins right now is ludicrous. It's at least twenty to thirty times that of the USD. Stable currency is the only meaningful currency, otherwise people abandon it and it stops being currency, just toilet paper.
yep,
surely it makes it pretty useless as a trading (as in buying something) tool?
it's back down to $63 at the mo.

if you're selling a product and pricing it with bitcoins, how the hell are you supposed to price it with the value going up and down so much?

Offline Hij

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #93 on: April 13, 2013, 02:44:03 am »
yep,
surely it makes it pretty useless as a trading (as in buying something) tool?
it's back down to $63 at the mo.

if you're selling a product and pricing it with bitcoins, how the hell are you supposed to price it with the value going up and down so much?

I believe people price it relative to USD. So you pay whatever bitcoins are required to match the price in USD at the time.
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Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #94 on: April 13, 2013, 02:55:16 am »
Hope it goes the same way as Dutch Tulips.
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Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2013, 05:38:56 am »
Hope it goes the same way as Dutch Tulips.
Why?
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Offline Noelle

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2013, 05:49:33 am »
I believe people price it relative to USD. So you pay whatever bitcoins are required to match the price in USD at the time.

It is relative to USD (as all currencies are, since USD is the standard for international trade right now). But there isn't a fixed exchange rate for bitcoins like there is for GBP or the Euro or Yen or whatever. The measure of value for bitcoins is insane. Observe this for a while, watch the jumps in prices. Also take the time to go through different views (24h & 30d are probably my faves) and just look at that volatility.

Also just to clarify:

The problem with the volatility is the bitcoins are, effectively, value-less. If I make a transaction for 1 BTC when the convertability is, say, $120, but almost immediately after transaction and before I can convert back to USD, it plummets to $80, I've just made a huge a loss. Equally, it causes crazy price jumps. The cost of a pizza can go from $2 to $30 to $0.50 in a single day. There's no real incentive to use bitcoins for much of anything, and there's zero incentive to store your bitcoins beyond hope of a rapid temporary boost in value which you can then try to sell immediately, but no one may want it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 06:44:32 am by Noelle »

Offline Niru Red4ever

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #97 on: April 13, 2013, 06:07:53 am »
if you're selling a product and pricing it with bitcoins, how the hell are you supposed to price it with the value going up and down so much?

Its quite terrible as a currency right now. But its early days (with the new hype and all) and hopefully it will stabilise in the future.

As Noelle explains (great post!) the deflationary phase would be a real deal breaker. I am guessing ther will be a Bitcoin 2.0 in the future which will be here to stay.
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Offline DanFromMars

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #98 on: May 6, 2013, 05:33:13 pm »
Just set up a litecoin miner on my 7970. Currently getting 559 KH/s so just about worth doing. I seem to be making just over one LTC per day which is about 2 quid. the leccy costs are less than this so it's a profit at least. Only downside is the fan noise and heat it's kicking out in this hot weather.
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Offline capt k

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #99 on: May 6, 2013, 07:41:27 pm »
Dan at least YOU decided you wanted to mine these. seems like there is a few folks who dont get a choice..
  http://www.pcgamesn.com/counterstrike/not-cool-bitcoin-mining-malware-found-esea-server-client

Users of popular PC gaming service ESEA have discovered that their PCs have been hijacked to mine Bitcoins by malware served up alongside the company’s client. A hidden Bitcoin-mining process caused users’ graphics cards to overheat as it worked in the background.

The attack has earned $3,602 for the unknown attackers, and has been running since April 14th, the company admitted. The incident was discovered by a site user calling himself ENJOY ESEA SHEEP, and was reported by PC Gamer.

“In the past two days I’ve noticed when my computer was idle, my GPU usage was hovering 90%+ with temps in the high 60s low 70s (hot for my card),” he wrote in a post on the company forums. “Turns out for the past 2 days, my computer has been farming bitcoins for someone in the ESEA community.”

The company initially dismissed the incident as an April Fool’s joke gone wrong. But in a later post, co-founder Eric Thunberg admitted that “this is way more shady than I originally thought.” A client update was released which removed the Bitcoin-mining software. ESEA has offered users free Premium access as compensation. “As of the client update released in the last hour, all the Bitcoin stuff is out which should solve the gpu and av warnings,” Thunberg said.

David Harley, Senior Research Fellow at ESET, says, “I remember a time when distributed processing was a pretty specialized area that was sometimes used for volunteer initiatives like SETI@home and various medical research projects.” .

“Along came malicious botnets that harnessed the capabilities of virtual networks for resource-intensive attacks like DDoS and captcha-breaking. I suppose it was inevitable that the bad guys would try harnessing the spare (and not so spare) processing capacity of victim machines as a way of exploiting the much-abused Bitcoin currency.”

ESEA is a competitive gaming community with 500,000 members. Its software is known for its strong anti-cheat measures. The company describes itself as “ the largest competitive video gaming community in North America, where thousands of players end up after getting sick of playing against cheaters and instead want to play against the best and get better.”
JFT 96

Offline DanFromMars

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #100 on: May 6, 2013, 08:02:13 pm »
Yeah I heard about that. I would notice straight away if someone was using the resources on my system.

Just did a calculator and making around $4 profit per day and about $1500 per year at current rates.
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Offline muyuu

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #101 on: May 13, 2013, 10:04:14 pm »
I've been using them since 2011. I'm quite active in bitcointalk, if you have any questions.
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Offline Marty 85

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #102 on: May 19, 2013, 11:47:06 pm »
Does RAWK have a BTC address and i'll send a few quid across?

Offline DanFromMars

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #103 on: May 20, 2013, 08:51:45 pm »
From their tepid approach to this thread I highly doubt it :P

I heard Dwolla got shut down by the US Gov since it's an unregulated money service and can be used to launder money etc.

There's also a new currency called Worldcoins. I stopped mining them since it was more a nuisance just to make a tiny bit of money. If I had a spare system witha  good KH/s rate I'd be running it in an empty room though.
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Offline MichaelA

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #104 on: May 20, 2013, 08:59:43 pm »
Does RAWK have a BTC address and i'll send a few quid across?

We've turned all of our users' computers into a giant RAWK bitmining botnet and the mods are retiring to Bognor on the proceeds.

Offline BER

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2013, 06:59:16 pm »
Is anyone here in on this? Gone fucking bonkers the last few weeks. $600/BTC now.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2013, 10:06:47 pm »
Peaked at $750.

Going to hit $1000 per Bitcoin.
:D

Offline BER

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #107 on: November 19, 2013, 12:35:47 am »
Regret spending all that money on Silkroad.

Offline bluelady13

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #108 on: November 19, 2013, 10:13:19 am »
It's the future...The financial establishment are worried
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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #109 on: November 19, 2013, 12:23:09 pm »
It's the future...The financial establishment are worried

Aye, so worried, that the US Senate is probably to accept it as a legitimate currency.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-24986264

Offline Azi

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #110 on: November 27, 2013, 09:10:12 pm »
Its hit the $1000 mark surely the bubble is got to burst eventually 

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #111 on: November 27, 2013, 09:15:50 pm »
£4m worth on a hard drive lost in the council tip in Newport.

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #112 on: November 28, 2013, 06:40:06 pm »
Buried somewhere under four feet of mud and rubbish, in the Docksway landfill site near Newport, Wales, in a space about the size of a football pitch is a computer hard drive worth more than £4m.

It belonged to James Howells, who threw it out when he was clearing up his desk in mid-summer and discovered the part, rescued from a defunct Dell laptop. He found it in a drawer and put it in a bin.

And then last Friday he realised that it held a digital wallet with 7,500 Bitcoins created for almost nothing in 2009 - and then worth about the same.

"You know when you put something in the bin, and in your head, say to yourself 'that's a bad idea'? I really did have that," Howells, who works in IT, told the Guardian. "I don't have an exact date, the only time period I can give – and I've been racking my own brains – is between 20 June and 10 August. Probably mid-July". At the time he obliviously threw them away, the 7,500 Bitcoins on the hard-drive were worth around £500,000. Since then, the cryptocurrency's value has soared, passing $1,000 on Wednesday afternoon.

bitcoins
In 2009, a few months after Bitcoin's launch, it was comparatively easy to 'mine' the digital currency, effectively creating money by computing. Photograph: Rick Bowmer/AP
Although Bitcoins have recently become part of the zeitgeist – with Virgin saying it will accept the currency for its Virgin Galactic flights, and central bankers considering its position in finance seriously – Howells generated his in early 2009, when the currency was only known in tech circles. At that time, a few months after its launch, it was comparatively easy to "mine" the digital currency, effectively creating money by computing: Howells ran a program on his laptop for a week to generate his stash. Nowadays, doing the same would require enormously expensive computing power.

That lost hard drive, though, contains the cryptographic "private key" that is needed to be able to access and spend the Bitcoins; without it, the "money" is lost forever.

And Howells didn't have a backup.

Howells stopped mining after a week because his girlfriend complained that the laptop was getting too noisy and hot while it ran the programs to solve the complex mathematical problems needed to create new Bitcoins.

In 2010, the Dell XPS N1710 broke after he accidentally tipped lemonade on it, so he dismantled it for parts. Most were thrown away or sold, but he kept the hard drive in a desk drawer for the next three years – until that fateful summer day when he had the clearout.

Howells didn't realise his mistake until Friday. Since then, he said, "I've searched high and low. I've tried to retrieve files from all of my USB sticks, from all of my hard drives. I've tried everything just in case I had a backup file, or had copied it by accident. And … nothing."

He even went down to the landfill site itself. "I had a word with one of the guys down there, explained the situation. And he actually took me out in his truck to where the landfill site is, the current ditch they're working on. It's about the size of a football field, and he said something from three or four months ago would be about three or four feet down."

After he stopped mining Bitcoins in 2009, Howells hadn't given the currency much thought. "I hadn't kept up on Bitcoin, I'd been distracted. I'd had a couple of kids since then, I'd been doing the house up, and forgot about it until it was in the news again."

Howells considered retrieving the hard drive himself, but was told that "even for the police to find something, they need a team of 15 guys, two diggers, and all the personal protection equipment. So for me to fund that, it's not possible without the guarantee of money at the end." As such, he's resigned to never getting the virtual money back.

"There's a pot of gold there for someone … I'm even thinking of registering www.returnmybitcoin.com. It's available," he said. He has also set up a Bitcoin wallet for donations aimed at recovering the hard drive.

"If they were to offer me a share, fair enough," he said. "If they were to go out and find it for themselves … it's my mistake throwing the hard drive out, at the end of the day."

A spokeswoman from Newport council emphasised that any treasure hunters turning up to the landfill site wouldn't be allowed in, but "obviously, if it was easily retrieved, we'd return it."

"I'm at the point where it's either laugh about it or cry about it," Howells says. "Why aren't I out there with a shovel now? I think I'm just resigned to never being able to find it."

Nonetheless, he continues to believe, as he did four years ago, that Bitcoin is the future of money. "I still think it's going to go higher. I just think it's the next step of the internet, which is why I mined it in the first place. When I first came across it, I knew straight away. We had everything else at the time; Google, Facebook, they were already the market leaders in their areas. The only thing that was missing was an internet money.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/27/hard-drive-bitcoin-landfill-site
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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #113 on: November 28, 2013, 07:09:25 pm »
Its hit the $1000 mark surely the bubble is got to burst eventually 
There's only a limited amount, it could keep going up?
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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #114 on: November 28, 2013, 07:25:07 pm »
£4m worth on a hard drive lost in the council tip in Newport.
Just came in to post that. Newport of all places. Just a shame some poor bastard won't be able to cash them.
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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #115 on: December 7, 2013, 03:39:10 am »
China have banned banks from using Bitcoins, causing the value to fall to $700 in the last few days.
:D

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #116 on: December 7, 2013, 05:07:22 am »
At this point, would it better to mine Litecoins instead?
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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #117 on: December 19, 2013, 08:18:48 pm »
At this point, would it better to mine Litecoins instead?

Depends on your equipment.

your best call if you're on a GPU is probably DogeCoin :D

Check out multipool.us
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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #118 on: December 19, 2013, 08:23:57 pm »
Wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

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Re: Bitcoin
« Reply #119 on: December 19, 2013, 08:27:59 pm »
teeth fell out
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