Author Topic: Klopp's Second Season - What constitutes a good 16/17 season in your view?  (Read 124479 times)

Offline Ma Vie en Rouge

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Top 4.

Obviously a trophy would be fantastic, but top 4 is what will determine if the season's a success or not.

Without EL/CL to worry about, and with one of Europe's best at the managerial helm - If we don't make top 4 this season, it will undoubtedly be an underachievement.

Undoubtedly an underachievement, eh? We need to finish ahead of two of City, Arsenal, United, Chelsea and Tottenham. Before we even mention Southampton, Leicester and West Ham. 5 of those teams have (or will have shortly) squads better than ours and/or more money to spend and/or top class managers and 5 of them expect CL next season as a minimum requirement. This is Klopp's first full season. Getting top four would be a huge achievement in this context. Which is not to say I don't think we'll do it. I think we have a good chance. But let's not start by raising our expectations so high that we are ready to condemn as underachievement anything other than doing something incredibly difficult.

Supporters need to get real about where we are now. We're fighting our way back to the top table, which has, in recent years, become rather crowded with fat bastards, their suits bursting with money, all demanding to tuck into the feast. It has never been more competitive for the top four places. We can do it. And if we give our manager time (at least three seasons from this one), we will get there, and beyond. But don't be deluded about how tough it is.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 08:41:49 pm by Ma Vie en Rouge »

Offline revelationx

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Top 4 finish is a good season. Anything less is a disappointment and a failure.

I have read some people say Top 4 is unrealistic. No it isn't. We didn't bring in Klopp to finish in 6th-8th. Top 4 is the target, minimum. The signings in recent seasons have been poor largely. We need to sign better players to compete. Some people say we cannot attract the better players despite being one of the richest clubs in the world. If lack of CL is hampering our recruitment then we need to get into Top 4 and then take advantage of that by bringing in even more top players. There is no way we should accept finishing outside the Top 4 as a good season, unless we win all the cups. 

We are one of the richest clubs in the world. We need to take advantage of that and Ian Ayre has to close some damned deals instead of failing to sign every big name we have pursued. Rafa got sacked because we finished 7th one season and only got to the semi-finals of the Europa League. Let that sink in. Hodgson came in and tried to lower expectations. Have our ambitions as a club been lowered from getting into Top 4 minimum? I don't think so. The club needs to back Klopp in the transfer market.

According to Deloitte, as a club our revenues are now more than both Milan giants combined. * And with the new Stadium expansion and the new TV deal we will likely get an increase of £60-65m annual revenues from this coming season.  There is no excuse for not bringing in quality players now.  Real Madrid always seem to get rid of quality players prematurely because they want to buy a new Galactico to sell shirts. We should try and buy players from them, instead of Southampton. And we should point blank refuse to sell our best players to Prem rivals. It sends out the wrong message about the ambition of the club. Yes, getting ton of cash for Sterling was good, but what is the point if we spend it all on dross that leaves us worse than before?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League#2014.E2.80.9315
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 10:17:29 pm by revelationx »

Offline KennyJR

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Top 4 finish has to be the main objective. No excuses. If this club ever wants to get back to the top it has to be done now. Clubs like liverpool, arsenal, United who actually are run like businesses and not living of a sugar daddy need to consistently finish top 4 to keep the brand image strolling and revenues rolling. Klopp now has a summer to whatever he likes and he needs to be aggressive in the market. The opportunities for finishing top 4 are even better now that there are no European distractions.

At this point finishing top 4 should be average and winning any cup bumps it up to good. Anything added would be a fantastic season and Klopp will probably even have more freedom to do whatever he likes by the board. Depending on further signings before the end of august I don't really think the club can win the title. The league is harder than ever and there will always be those games were you get sucker punched. Draws against the top sides will be more important than ever.


Offline please stop 2016

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About time all involved believed this to be achievable. Too many years of players and fans accepting mediocrity. I believe all managers, except Hodgson, have believed we can win the league.
Agreed we have the best manager in the world,
the best attacking 4 when fit in the league with great depth
In origi and lallana , potentially the best defensive partnership
in the league in sakho and matip, so why shouldn't we dare to
dream lads I'm excited 😊

Offline rscanderlech

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Agreed we have the best manager in the world,
the best attacking 4 when fit in the league with great depth
In origi and lallana , potentially the best defensive partnership
in the league in sakho and matip, so why shouldn't we dare to
dream lads I'm excited 😊
You are definitely a troll and you are not very good at it. You are thoroughly incapable of subtlety. Moreover, the fact that you think that you have the time in your life to create an account with Rawk in order to troll suggests that your life prospects are dismal. I hope that's not the case, but sadly, it's almost guaranteed.

Offline UntouchableLuis

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The title of this thread is a little misleading - shouldn't it be Klopp's first FULL season?...
"IT'S ENDED.....THE EUROPEAN CUP IS RETURNING TO ENGLAND AND TO ANFIELD."

Offline Zlen

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As long as he wins the title we can not do much in the cups, I'm ok with that.

Offline Garry_LFC

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The title of this thread is a little misleading - shouldn't it be Klopp's first FULL season?...

Offline goalspaytherent

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Hoping for silverware myself ....think top 4 will be a rat race for everyone ....I would like to see us turn anfield into a proper bastion of 'no fucking chance ' for the opposition.......

top 4 will come when we deserve it

Offline Djozer

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I'd like to think we can challenge for the top four given the midweek breaks we'll mostly be getting, but wouldn't be too downhearted if we don't make it. We'll be competing against a lot of very good teams.

As long as we can see clear signs of the team coming together, and hopefully start beating some of the teams that like to sit deep against us I think I'll be happy. I think we've got a fair amount to look forward too but no point going overboard with the expectations just yet.

Offline joe ®

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I don't see us doing much more than challenging for a Europa League place and maybe having a bit of a cup run, probably in the League Cup.

Too many teams ahead of us right now. I fucking love our manager but the players he has to work with just aren't up to the standard required to get in the top four in a league this strong. It's the price we pay for being so awful at player recruitment.

Offline ManéManéMané

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I judge every season as a success or failure depending on the season before it. Therefore, if we finish above 8th, we will have made progress.

Having said that, my expectations will depend on who we sign, because a team is only as good as the players. We're not far off having an excellent team, but we still need a DM and a LB, in many people's (and my) opinion. If they are Poulsen and Konchesky, we may not finish above 8th. If they're Kanté and Fuchs, a title challenge could conceivably materialise.

Offline killer-heels

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70-75 points. It has to be 70 points absolute minimum. Anything else is an underachievement.

Offline KennyJR

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Agreed we have the best manager in the world,
the best attacking 4 when fit in the league with great depth
In origi and lallana , potentially the best defensive partnership
in the league in sakho and matip
, so why shouldn't we dare to
dream lads I'm excited 😊
'

Obvious troll is obvious.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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So many fecking trolls as of late, wish we'd close the registration to the forum again...

Offline Jonsi

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Quote
Having said that, my expectations will depend on who we sign, because a team is only as good as the players. We're not far off having an excellent team, but we still need a DM and a LB, in many people's (and my) opinion. If they are Poulsen and Konchesky, we may not finish above 8th. If they're Kanté and Fuchs, a title challenge could conceivably materialise.
What?  ;D

Fuchs might have had a decent season at Leicester, but I doubt if he's even going to be an upgrade on Moreno. He's been shite during his last two years at Schalke and always pretty average for Austria. Apart from that he's already 30 and is only going to get worse.

Offline B0151?

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What are you expectations for the coming season?
That we are competitive and consistent. It's hard not for my expectations to be for us to be challenging at the top end of the table, even with the competition. What else can you target?

What would make it a good season for the club?
I think given the competition, you have to say that top 4 would amount to a good achievement. I desperately want us to win a trophy though, but we have to be competitive in the league. A trophy would make me so happy but a disappointing league campaign would make me just as unhappy. They are the majority of the games after all.

Is a trophy realistic? Is top 4 realistic?
Both should be the targets.

Will no Europa League be a blessing or a void?
I am disappointed that we're not in Europe this season, but less games is more time to prepare for the other ones. I think European football definitely does make it tougher. I always want that challenge, but in Klopp's first full season, it might be a bit of a blessing that he has the extra fitness and time to work with the players.

Offline ManéManéMané

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What?  ;D

Fuchs might have had a decent season at Leicester, but I doubt if he's even going to be an upgrade on Moreno. He's been shite during his last two years at Schalke and always pretty average for Austria. Apart from that he's already 30 and is only going to get worse.

Each to their own, but for me he was probably the best LB in the Premier League last season. He was immense.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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What?  ;D

Fuchs might have had a decent season at Leicester, but I doubt if he's even going to be an upgrade on Moreno. He's been shite during his last two years at Schalke and always pretty average for Austria. Apart from that he's already 30 and is only going to get worse.

He's a windup

Offline ManéManéMané

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He's a windup

No I'm not, if you're referring to me? I just think that signing a LB with the defensive quality of Fuchs, plus someone of the same quality as Kanté (which would be extremely rare), would see us challenging for the title. It doesn't have to be those players exactly.

I really think that our first team is, on its day, probably the best team in the league. With more solidity at DM and at the back, with Sturridge able to play more games, and with more consistency, a title challenge would be on the cards.

Still, these are too many conditionals: on topic, and in a nutshell, a good season constitutes improvement from last season in the league.

Offline Schmidt

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I think we should be able to push for top four. Spurs were at their maximum last season and you'd expect Leicester to drop off a bit. City, United, Chelsea and Arsenal all have holes in their squad despite the large sums spent and three of them have new managers coming in. I'm also not totally convinced that Chelsea will spend big despite their history, the last couple of seasons they've recouped what they've spent, albeit having managed to see a few players for some outrageous fees.

Klopp getting a preseason with the players followed by mostly one game a week will be huge, I just hope that we get the squad additions he wants soon.

Offline Tobez

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I genuinely don't know what to expect next season. I think there are plenty of good reasons to be very excited, but there are still a large number of things which could trip us up. I'll try to put them in a list.

Reasons we'll do well

1) Our attack. It was the second best in the league after Christmas, and with our players having come through the Euros (mostly) unscathed and with a full pre-season ahead of them, there shouldn't be a drop in quality. Given the fact that we'll have Mané and Ings as well, we should be perfectly comfortable up front. I can't be the only one who's incredibly excited by the form Origi showed towards the end of last season, and if he progresses even further this year things could be very interesting indeed. It's also worth pointing out that Sturridge hasn't been injured (properly) since February and despite a seeming loss of pace has still be scoring during that time. Keep him fit and we have a 20-goal striker.

2) Players returning from injury. A bit of crossover with the previous reason here, but it's not an insignificant point. I've already mentioned Sturridge and Ings, but we'll also have Gomez back, along with (fingers crossed) a Henderson who can show what he's capable of - once again - to the plethora of doubters he has amongst the fans.

3) Fewer games. As much as it is in the DNA of the club to be in Europe and those magical nights last season were something really special, it's also true that more time to prepare between games should improve our prospects in the league. The rotation and fatigue caused by our exploits in the Europa last season had no small effect on throwing away leads in a couple of games, and listless performances in a couple more. Without those, we would probably have made top 4 last season, so there's no reason we can't improve on that aspect this year.

4) The manager. Klopp should be well-adjusted to the demands of the league by now. It's worth considering that last season his time to adapt was severely curtailed by European and cup competitions, and when games are coming at the rate of 2 - 3 a week then there's not really much time to plan strategically. This season he'll have the dual advantages of more time and a season of domestic experience under his belt, and seeing the improvements he got from a number of our players whilst hugely overworked last year (Lovren, Origi, Allen, Sakho, Lallana etc) then it's a thrilling prospect to see how far he can push them now he has the opportunity to do so.

5) Upheaval at rival clubs. Next season, all of our close domestic rivals will either have to deal with an increased workload due to European football (sometimes for the very first time), the disruption that comes with a change of manager, or both. It's true that Guardiola, Mourinho and Conté are all formidable managers with unlimited budgets, but given the various different pressures placed on them at new clubs and the fact that two of them are experiencing the league for the first time, they may not provide instant success. Klopp is definitely worth including in that list in terms of ability and he has, as I've mentioned before, more time to plan for each game than any of his rivals.

Reasons we might struggle

1) Potential absences from key players. There's no guarantee that Sturridge or Henderson will be able to stay fit, or that they have returned to their pre-injury fitness levels. In addition to that, the threat of a ban is still hanging over Sakho, and both Matip and Mané might leave for a key period of the season to go and play for their countries. That's effectively the spine of the team with a big question mark over its availability.

2) Key weaknesses in the squad. While I think our attack is fine, there are some real questions still to be asked about the depth in quality of certain areas of the squad. I personally believe that Can/Henderson is a fine midfield pair, as I think Henderson will be playing further forward than we've seen him do for some time, but should one of those two get injured or banned our options in CM look rather thin, especially with Allen rumoured to be leaving. Likewise, should Sakho receive a ban, we're once again looking decidedly shaky on our strength-in-depth at CB; if Matip goes to the ACON we'd have Lovren and an injury-hit Gomez as our first-choice pairing. The jury is still out on Moreno's capacity for improvement, and whilst I am confident in his ability, there will be a lot of pressure on Karius to step up and perform from the very first day.

3) Potential strength of rivals. I know I spoke above about how there will be lots of change in the teams above us, but the fact remains that the prospect of world-class managers with huge budgets and some excellent signings already is slightly concerning. Add that to the fact Arsenal have finally brought in a CM worthy of the name and are seriously considering Lacazette, Spurs have continuity under Pochettino as West Ham do under Bilic, and the fact that any team in the league is capable of being a banana skin and it is clear to see that winning the league has just become a lot more difficult.

Conclusion

I'm an endlessly optimistic kind of guy and given the clear advantages we have in certain areas I'm sure that a title is not actually out of the realms of possibility. Obviously I'm not expecting it and I won't be throwing my toys out of the pram if/when it doesn't happen, because I think that Klopp is by far the best fitting manager we could possibly have and should be given as much time as he needs to bring the club to his way of playing. Remember it took Ferguson 3 years to build any kind of side at United, and it took Klopp a few seasons to bring success to Mainz and Dortmund. My hope for the season is that, if results do not go our way immediately, the more hysterical section of our support have the sense to keep their counsel for a while and look for the signs of improvement. Remember we have a very tough start to the season but if we can be within touching distance of the top by Christmas, the second half of the season is a lot easier on paper and we could be in with a very real shout.
« Last Edit: July 4, 2016, 07:53:43 am by Tobez »

Offline anoopvk

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Agreed we have the best manager in the world,
the best attacking 4 when fit in the league with great depth
In origi and lallana , potentially the best defensive partnership
in the league in sakho and matip, so why shouldn't we dare to
dream lads I'm excited 😊
Even the most deluded posters would not think like that, troll.
"We must turn from doubters to believers"

Offline wordroam

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We aim to win the league.

We can talk about risks and obstacles now, its only worth talking about failure if it happens. So with respect to the OP a good season is simply where we aim to win the league.

With respect to 'obstacles and risks':

Player churn
Euros hangover
Klopps methods taking more than a summer to bed in
Injury: what position(s) are we weakest ?

Positives:

No Europe
Klopp familiar with league
Players are good enough
Fans are good enough




Offline Curtisinho

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What are you expectations for the coming season?

Some nice, exciting football with some of our younger players (Can, Origi, Ibe/Ojo) taking a step up and established, but inconsistent, talents (Coutinho, Firmino, Allen) really starting to iron out those inconsistencies and putting their stamp on the team. Other than that just getting back into Europe and seeing some progress from the team in general.

What would make it a good season for the club?

I'm a bit more moderate in my expectations I think than most. I just want to see some exciting football, go deep in the cup competitions we are in (I'd like to make at least one semi-final) and get back into Europe this season. I don't know that top 4 is realistic though that would be the dream scenario, but getting back into at least the Europa should be a goal, and I'd love to see some silverware.

Is a trophy realistic? Is top 4 realistic?

I think, especially with the way that Klopp structures the team, a trophy is a realistic possibility. We don't have as many competitions to deal with as the other 'top' teams, and he's a great motivator. Top 4 will be a tricky pursuit on the other hand. Chelsea will surely bounce back and are in a similar position to us, but have better quality of player and a manager who is very consistent and successful. United are bringing in some big talents and have Mourinho. Arsenal and City still have a ton of talent and managers that know how to navigate league play. I think that there's enough talent on our team to push those four teams, but we'll also be contending with the likes of Leicester (assuming they keep their stars), West Ham, Tottenham and Southampton who will all have competitive squads and coaching.

Will no Europa League be a blessing or a void?

For me a bit of both. It'll afford Klopp more time to work with the players on the team in terms of match preparation, getting them more used to his system with some consistency, and provide extra rest for our more injury prone and older players. At the same time I think it does kind of affect our transfer draw, and I always love to watch European games and the chance for competing on a higher level for a trophy. I mean, realistically, how exciting was it last year? It's the kind of stuff that we, as fans, live for.
« Last Edit: July 4, 2016, 04:25:41 pm by Curtinho »
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Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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We aim to win the league.


Exactly. No point bothering otherwise and this means the fans as well.
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Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Is a trophy realistic? Is top 4 realistic?
Both should be the targets.

1st should be the target, not top 4
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Offline jordyball10

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Aim to win the league, we get top 4 minimum. If we set our expectations to finish top 4 we could easily squeeze in the top 4 but also we could miss out... Always aim for the best and if we do fall short it will still be a success.

Offline Zlen

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Let's not forget we'll have a new pitch at Anfield.
Champions or bust!

Offline andy07

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Top 4 is the priority with a good cup run.   I expect the league to be really competitive and 75 points may be enough to win with 10 points between 1st and 6th.
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Offline Penfold78

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 I tell you what success looks like now that the fuckwits have sold the country a dummy and done a runner: Klopp getting a UK passport.  :no :no

Offline mr dudek

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Looking at the signings other clubs above us are making & comparing with our signings so far, top 4 would be realistically difficult even with Klopp's magic.

A challenge for top 4 till the end of the season & a domestic trophy would be good enough for the next season i guess.

Offline KennyJR

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Undoubtedly an underachievement, eh? We need to finish ahead of two of City, Arsenal, United, Chelsea and Tottenham. Before we even mention Southampton, Leicester and West Ham. 5 of those teams have (or will have shortly) squads better than ours and/or more money to spend and/or top class managers and 5 of them expect CL next season as a minimum requirement. This is Klopp's first full season. Getting top four would be a huge achievement in this context. Which is not to say I don't think we'll do it. I think we have a good chance. But let's not start by raising our expectations so high that we are ready to condemn as underachievement anything other than doing something incredibly difficult.

Supporters need to get real about where we are now. We're fighting our way back to the top table, which has, in recent years, become rather crowded with fat bastards, their suits bursting with money, all demanding to tuck into the feast. It has never been more competitive for the top four places. We can do it. And if we give our manager time (at least three seasons from this one), we will get there, and beyond. But don't be deluded about how tough it is.

Usually I would agree with this but there is no european distraction in the way. That is definitely a significant factor in deciding how smooth the season could go. If the squad was playing in europa then missing top 4 would be an underachievement but not that bad. However liverpool are only competing for 3 cups with one starting in January. It doesn't get any easier. United did it there should be no reason liverpool can't. Top 4 really should be the minimum.

If klopp doesn't achieve top 4 in the end, finishing 5th would be disappointing but still significan't progress.

Offline ZeusMetallica

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Top 4 this season would be huge for us, although I am a tad pessimistic given we finished 8th last time around. Another domestic cup final would be nice too.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Top 4 this season would be huge for us, although I am a tad pessimistic given we finished 8th last time around. Another domestic cup final would be nice too.

We have no Europe, so we will be able to concentrate on the league, like we did in 2013/14.

I expect that we will finish in the top 4, and have a good run in the cups.

Offline Purple Red

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My expectations for the coming season are another one of transition with noticeable improvement on last year. I am under no illusions that there still won't be some frustrating times but it is up to Klopp to ensure these make our players rather than break them as they did under Rodgers. A good season for Liverpool would be continuing the ongoing process of turning Anfield into a fortress again and maintaining our decent away record. As with every season I think we should be aiming to finish as high as possible in the league. Top four would be a success, anything less a disappointment. It will all be relative. If we finish 1 point off fourth due to the top four teams being very strong, I can accept that. What I wouldn't be able to accept is more mid-table mediocrity. I am weary of that. A trophy is always a realistic proposition given the lottery nature of the domestic cups. I would like to go one further this season and challenge for the FA Cup and League Cup this season and win one or the other (or both!). Much as I'm an advocate of competing for the Europa League I think not being in it will be a blessing this season. I think participation last season definitely impacted on our league form as our fixture list was hectic. For all this to become a reality I still think we need to make further moves in the transfer market. Nonetheless, we have an excellent manager who we can be confident will not let us down in any way we have unfortunately become used to at Liverpool.

Offline DanA

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There's always a difference between what's fair to expect and what I actually expect.

I think it's fair to expect us to come 5th or 6th. That's where we are at in terms of budget and coming from a 8th I think that's a fair and achievable target. Especially considering we are without European football. But that's what's fair, what I actually expect is that we will do much better. I think we've got a cracking manager and actually did rather well with our signings the last few summers. With a number of them hopefully more settled and greater continuity a long with a better balanced side I think we could compete for the title and would be disappointed not to finish top 4.

On money you'd have to say Man City or Man Utd should walk it but with new managers i'm not sure it will be as easy as all that.
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Offline DyingAtheist

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One day people will grasp the difference between what we want/hope for, and what is reasonable to expect of Klopp in his first full season. Sure, we should always "aim" to win the league but "expecting" to do so is something altogether different, and dumb.

Offline Eeyore

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If you look at our recent history we have finished between 5th and 8th apart apart from one freak season when Suarez spent most of the season averaging over a goal a game in the League. Klopp is clearly a top manager but then again the likes of Mourinho , Pep, Conte, Wenger and Pochetino aren't exactly mugs.

Unless we have another freak season then for me us Arsenal and Spurs are looking at fighting it out for one CL place with us clearly being the outsider of the 3. So unless we buy big then anything above 6th has to be deemed a successful season.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline Solomon Grundy

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If you look at our recent history we have finished between 5th and 8th apart apart from one freak season when Suarez spent most of the season averaging over a goal a game in the League. Klopp is clearly a top manager but then again the likes of Mourinho , Pep, Conte, Wenger and Pochetino aren't exactly mugs.

Unless we have another freak season then for me us Arsenal and Spurs are looking at fighting it out for one CL place with us clearly being the outsider of the 3. So unless we buy big then anything above 6th has to be deemed a successful season.

I agree it'll be hard to finish top four, but definitely doable.

It's not really about needing to buy big to be able to finish top four though, it's about buying the right players. Every signing has got to be pretty much spot on and come in and hit the ground running. Otherwise we're going to struggle. We can't afford any passengers if we want to finish in the CL places.