Topic: Not quite so 'Super' League

[RainbowFlick]

I do wish this would just fck off.

Hopefully, we're no where near this, and having the 'agreement' between FSG & SoS means fans would have to be sold on this.

We're in the running to win two of the biggest football competitions again this season. We've got one of the most storied histories in both. Leaving either or both is all about money and not about football. There are historical rivalries that would be broken just the rush for more funds.  We complain about the stupid money some players demand in the current competitions, that would probably skyrocket under such a scheme.

we shouldn't as fans be tied to 'loyalty' to UEFA or any competition as a commercial entity in my opinion. the tradition, yes. not sure what historical rivalries would be broken anyway - all the same European teams would be in the competition and now they've removed the 'auto-qualify' element of it.

all of this furore has also meant UEFA have silently been able to slide auto-qualification to two teams too but nobody seems to have batted an eye about it (as in the media types that were most vocal against the ESL).

[ScouserAtHeart]

all of this furore has also meant UEFA have silently been able to slide auto-qualification to two teams too but nobody seems to have batted an eye about it (as in the media types that were most vocal against the ESL).

Don't think that's been finalised yet?

[Samie]

All 12 Super League clubs have decided to make the competition a fully open league, with 0 guaranteed spots. It will be announced today. @voz_populi

[ScouserAtHeart]

Wait. Did they alter the club's charter to say they won't join unless the fans are onboard with it or something?

[RainbowFlick]

Don't think that's been finalised yet?

correct me if i'm wrong but from memory, they agreed on it under the cloak of the ESL about 3 days after the ESL 'launched'.

[RainbowFlick]

Wait. Did they alter the club's charter to say they won't join unless the fans are onboard with it or something?

yes. i would imagine if they marketed the ESL better and got fan engagement going (whilst UEFA continues to do fuck all) the pro-ESL sentiment may grow a bit in our fanbase to be honest.

Gary Neville and co will hawk on about tradition but I have no loyalty to UEFA. Both side are as greedy as the other but UEFA has proven throughout a lengthy period of time to be inept and greedy.

[Samie]

The Telegraph reporting that the Six Premier League clubs are not involved in it currently.

[Gods_Left_Boot]

Sounds like all the noises about this are coming from Madrid. Perez must be really desperate to keep this farce alive.

[CraigDS]

Sounds like all the noises about this are coming from Madrid. Perez must be really desperate to keep this farce alive.

The thing is it's really not a farce if done properly. UEFA have shown themselves to be a corrupt as ever and are absolutely toothless/unwilling to get control on despot owned clubs.

[Suareznumber7]

Why are so many people against entering a new competition that UEFA aren't involved in?  So many people complain about UEFA and how corrupt they are but want us to stay in their competition.  I don't get it.

[rob1966]

The thing is it's really not a farce if done properly. UEFA have shown themselves to be a corrupt as ever and are absolutely toothless/unwilling to get control on despot owned clubs.

[Sharado]

Why are so many people against entering a new competition that UEFA aren't involved in?  So many people complain about UEFA and how corrupt they are but want us to stay in their competition.  I don't get it.

To be honest as soon as Newcastle's owners rode into town, I felt like football was that fucked we might as well sign up to the super league. The premier league reads like a who's who of human rights abusers at present.

[Suareznumber7]

To be honest as soon as Newcastle's owners rode into town, I felt like football was that fucked we might as well sign up to the super league. The premier league reads like a who's who of human rights abusers at present.

The ESL would just replace the Champions league though right?  We wouldn't be leaving the PL. 

[CraigDS]

The ESL would just replace the Champions league though right?  We wouldn't be leaving the PL.

Correct.

I never got why people insisted on arguing like we were leaving the PL.

[Sharado]

The ESL would just replace the Champions league though right?  We wouldn't be leaving the PL.

Fuck knows. Whole things fucked anyway. Let's just win the quadruple this year.

[Dench57]

Correct.

I never got why people insisted on arguing like we were leaving the PL.

I think it was more concerns that due to the high number of fixtures and eye-watering sums involved (at least triple the CL), domestic leagues would quickly become second-rate competitions compared to the ESL.

[Samie]

It still will. That money hasn't gone away.  They're just getting rid of the "closed shop" rule and involving promotion and relegation.

[CraigDS]

I think it was more concerns that due to the high number of fixtures and eye-watering sums involved (at least triple the CL), domestic leagues would quickly become second-rate competitions compared to the ESL.

That's like suggesting the CL is a second rate competition to the PL given the difference in finances.

[El Lobo]

Makes even less sense now

The whole reason Real, Barca and Juve are pushing so hard is so they can get some of that sweet, sweet PL TV money. It not being a closed shop for them makes zero sense, that was the whole point for them. I guess the smallprint for the new proposal would be 'the founders are guaranteed a place in the top division for ten years' or some such rubbish.

[rob1966]

Correct.

I never got why people insisted on arguing like we were leaving the PL.

Suited the narrative of c*nts like Neville

[Fromola]

Why are so many people against entering a new competition that UEFA aren't involved in?  So many people complain about UEFA and how corrupt they are but want us to stay in their competition.  I don't get it.

The problem is the more and more games mentality (whether it be UEFA or the ESL). Also the good thing about the CL is it's ultimately a knockout competition, not a league format, although the expanded group stages are a garbage idea.

ESL just means a lot of meaningless games. The issue is clubs like Barca and Real need to sort their debts out, expanded their revenues and play against more glamorous clubs than Elche and Cadiz every week.

[disgraced cake]

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1499374713512017928

UEFA poised to scrap plans for historic Champions League places

A small step in the right direction in the pretty shite Swiss model.

[Samie]

The Spanish media still insisting that the original contract the clubs signed is binding.   

[skipper757]

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/status/1499374713512017928

UEFA poised to scrap plans for historic Champions League places

A small step in the right direction in the pretty shite Swiss model.

Actually surprised they did this.  This was a great way for them to get 5/6+ teams from the PL for example.  You can play EL and Conference League for years but if you go far, you'll rack up decent coefficient points that would allow you into the CL as a "historical entrant."  Roma and Spurs would've both been in the CL this year if this model was in effect (Arsenal would've if they qualified for any Europe).  So essentially, you need to ensure you finish in any European place and then use your historical coefficient (hopefully 1 of the top 2 teams in European competition but not CL), and you make it.  In theory you could've had something like this last year if the results in the league were just slightly different:
1. City
2. United
3. Liverpool
4. Leicester
5. Chelsea (Won CL)
6. Spurs/Arsenal (historical entrant)

6 PL teams.  It's also a way to improve the chances that the best PL teams make it every year (appease the PL because a PL-driven "Super League" would be dangerous for UEFA).

[CanuckYNWA]

The Spanish media still insisting that the original contract the clubs signed is binding.   

Its all coming out of Madrid camp. They are really trying to push it, not sure why LFC fans even care. Didnt FSG agree with involve SoS in any decisions regarding stuff like this moving forward so as to not have the disconnect before and the immense backlash they got from that

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Suited the narrative of c*nts like Neville

And like usual a fair few fell for it and used it as the basis of their criticism of the clubs involved.

Neville, looking back was playing his usual role as Sky puppet and Utd cheerleader. He was out there defending Sky's interests like mad while also making sure it was us in the firing line while Utd got off relatively lightly.

[FLRed67]

Real, Juve and Barca are not pushing for this to level the playing field, or because UEFA is corrupt. Any more than cockroaches come out at night because they’re just trying to clean up left-over food. 
 
They have been knocked off their perch by PSG, City, etc. who now control UEFA. And the EPL is streets ahead of their respective leagues, where many of the clubs are just trying to stave off bankruptcy.

“We wouldn't be leaving the EPL, would we”. Nope. But it doesn’t take the seeing stones of the Palantiri to see that the ESL, expanded into a proper league competition, would basically compete with the EPL for TV money and audience.

Rather than fall for the schemes of Perez, Agnelli et al, the EPL should take this opportunity to invite Rangers, Celtic, and Ajax to join the EPL. With subsidy/compensation arrangements to these other leagues, and promotion to the EPL for their league winners.

[El Lobo]

Real, Juve and Barca are not pushing for this to level the playing field, or because UEFA is corrupt. Any more than cockroaches come out at night because they’re just trying to clean up left-over food. 
 
They have been knocked off their perch by PSG, City, etc. who now control UEFA. And the EPL is streets ahead of their respective leagues, where many of the clubs are just trying to stave off bankruptcy.

“We wouldn't be leaving the EPL, would we”. Nope. But it doesn’t take the seeing stones of the Palantiri to see that the ESL, expanded into a proper league competition, would basically compete with the EPL for TV money and audience.

Rather than fall for the schemes of Perez, Agnelli et al, the EPL should take this opportunity to invite Rangers, Celtic, and Ajax to join the EPL. With subsidy/compensation arrangements to these other leagues, and promotion to the EPL for their league winners.

How on earth would that work? So Ajax and Rangers get promoted, and then.....Norwich get relegated to Scotland, and Everton get relegated to Holland? It sounds great though.

[CraigDS]

So fuck over other domestic leagues by poaching their best sides is the answer to the fact you think the ESL is a bad idea as it would fuck over the PL?

It’s a crazy way of thinking I’ll give you that.

[FLRed67]

How on earth would that work? So Ajax and Rangers get promoted, and then.....Norwich get relegated to Scotland, and Everton get relegated to Holland? It sounds great though.

No - Norwich will just go where they are going anyway: to the Championship.

Simply take one fewer promoted team from the Championship each year for three years, to make room for winners of Scottish, Dutch leagues, etc. And relegated teams simply go back into their home leagues - be it Championship, Scotland or Eredivisie.

[Jookie]

The biggest advantage of a potential ESL is that clubs may need to sign up to some sort of salary cap that would be more enforceable than FFP has been by UEFA.

That's the advantage for making it a more level playing field for us.

I was never massively against the ESL. I'm not for it either. Part of my ambivalence towards it all is that UEFA's proposed changes to the European competitions are a dog's dinner and a step backwards from the current format. In a similar way that their efforts to enforce FFP have been hugely inappropriate.

[CraigDS]

No - Norwich will just go where they are going anyway: to the Championship.

Simply take one fewer promoted team from the Championship each year for three years, to make room for winners of Scottish, Dutch leagues, etc. And relegated teams simply go back into their home leagues - be it Championship, Scotland or Eredivisie.

What if 3 English clubs get relegated? Would the Championship become a 22 team league? Or do you promote 3 and tell the Scottish and Dutch league winners they can’t be promoted to the big boy league until one of their teams is relegated?

[El Lobo]

No - Norwich will just go where they are going anyway: to the Championship.

Simply take one fewer promoted team from the Championship each year for three years, to make room for winners of Scottish, Dutch leagues, etc. And relegated teams simply go back into their home leagues - be it Championship, Scotland or Eredivisie.

Well you've won the 'worst idea in the thread' prize, which is quite something considering the thread!

22/23 Ajax, Bournemouth and Cardiff get promoted. Norwich, Brentford and Watford go down (into the Championship)

23/24 Rangers, Forest and Derby get promoted. Bournemouth, Cardiff and Leeds go down (into the Championship)

24/25, Celtic, Swansea and West Brom get promoted. Forest, Derby and Leicester go down (into the Championship)

So now the PL has 20 teams, the Championship has 27 teams, the Scottish PL has 10 teams and the Eredivisie has 17 And poor old PSV don't get their 'promotion' because we're prioritising the Scottish League. Or maybe they can get promoted to Scotland and relegate Aberdeen to Belgium.

[Suareznumber7]

Makes even less sense now

The whole reason Real, Barca and Juve are pushing so hard is so they can get some of that sweet, sweet PL TV money. It not being a closed shop for them makes zero sense, that was the whole point for them. I guess the smallprint for the new proposal would be 'the founders are guaranteed a place in the top division for ten years' or some such rubbish.

Being a closed shop or not doesn't matter to those 3 clubs as they'll qualify every year.  This is the weakest Barcelona team in years and they're still in 4th with a game in hand.  They'll likely end up in 3rd this year. 

[El Lobo]

Being a closed shop or not doesn't matter to those 3 clubs as they'll qualify every year.  This is the weakest Barcelona team in years and they're still in 4th with a game in hand.  They'll likely end up in 3rd this year.

But their whole shtick was they were the 'best of the best' in Europe so would be guaranteed to be in the first ten seasons or whatever. How on earth would the initial £3.5 billion payment work if those teams weren't guaranteed to even be in it. Its nonsense.

And Barcas record in Europe over the last 3/4 years is appalling. They'd get relegated in the first season.

[Barneylfc∗]

Why are so many people against entering a new competition that UEFA aren't involved in?  So many people complain about UEFA and how corrupt they are but want us to stay in their competition.  I don't get it.

Because they get their opinion from Sky Sports and Gary Neville, who incited riots and violence from his club's fans to get a game called off. The Super League was bad for Sky, so therefore bad for football apparently. The corruption in FIFA, UEFA and the Premier League having despot owners is fine though.

[masher]

Between an ESL and the current format I would guess most fans would prefer the current format if UEFA were able to sincerely enforce FFP. But UEFA are beyond hope, when you have the chairman of PSG as a member of your executive committee how on earth can any fair rules be imposed?

Given their incompetence it’s easy to see why clubs have decided to take matters into their hands and fuck off from the CL. My only gripe is why are Spurs invited? Fucking nobodies. Chelsea should be fucked off as well, now that Roman will be gone and they will go back to mediocrity - why throw those c*nts a lifeline.

[Fromola]

Why are so many people against entering a new competition that UEFA aren't involved in?  So many people complain about UEFA and how corrupt they are but want us to stay in their competition.  I don't get it.

The CL format of the last 20 years is still better than a long league season (played in conjunction with 38 game domestic league and cups on top).

Anfield European nights are special on the nights there's something huge at stake: a semi final, a quarter final, a win-or-you're-out group game. The drawn-out league format takes that away for the most part.

In essence it's not an idea drummed up for glory but purely money with a shitload more games. Same as the CL of course but it's still the continuation of the European Cup which is huge part of our heritage and Anfields.

I'd be more supportive if the format was more like the CL but just away from UEFA. However, the money men behind this won't like that because they want a shitload more games guaranteed for more money. As bad as UEFA are the likes of Perez and Agnelli are even more of a nightmare. It's a Blatter to Infantino scenario.

[disgraced cake]

The CL format of the last 20 years is still better than a long league season (played in conjunction with 38 game domestic league and cups on top).

Anfield European nights are special on the nights there's something huge at stake: a semi final, a quarter final, a win-or-you're-out group game. The drawn-out league format takes that away for the most part.

In essence it's not an idea drummed up for glory but purely money with a shitload more games. Same as the CL of course but it's still the continuation of the European Cup which is huge part of our heritage and Anfields.

Agree with that but especially this. It's the main reason among so, so many that I want us to have no part in the Superleague. The European Cup/Champions League is deeply rooted in the heritage of this club, our successes in it and European football have been totemic. I can't and don't want to imagine Liverpool Football Club without it.

[CraigDS]

Agree with that but especially this. It's the main reason among so, so many that I want us to have no part in the Superleague. The European Cup/Champions League is deeply rooted in the heritage of this club, our successes in it and European football have been totemic. I can't and don't want to imagine Liverpool Football Club without it.

But the CL is 100% not the old European Cup, but we turned the CL into just as an important part of our history. There is no reason why another Europe wide competition which includes all the top sides wouldn't be seen in the same light.