Author Topic: Merseyrail - now with added 777 (Read 53282 times)

Thepooloflife · « **Reply #40 on:** March 31, 2021, 04:29:59 pm »

Quote from: CornerFlag on March 31, 2021, 10:22:08 am

There's scope for a few new stations in the city centre, but not many. I know there's St. James likely to start, but after that you're re-directing a lot of stuff. One that should be easy (relatively speaking) is one up by the universities, but you wonder what demand there would be given it's so close to Lime Street itself, but there's another tunnel you can incorporate. The M&S/Echo arena could be fairly well-served by one down the line too by using the old Wapping tunnel but probably not much scope/demand for what would essentially be an Edge Hill shuttle. The Wapping could easily be connected to Central though, think the connections are there.

I'm a massive gimp for the history of the old railways and stations around here! Blame http://disused-stations.org.uk/sites.shtml for most of it.

On the Wapping tunnel - that LCR report says that a study identified that the City Line service could be brought into Central Station via a re-opened Wapping tunnel, so looks like it's a viable suggestion.

Red Beret · « **Reply #41 on:** March 31, 2021, 06:56:37 pm »

Quote from: Thepooloflife on March 31, 2021, 04:29:59 pm

On the Wapping tunnel - that LCR report says that a study identified that the City Line service could be brought into Central Station via a re-opened Wapping tunnel, so looks like it's a viable suggestion.

Here's the wikipedia article on Wapping tunnel if anybody is interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wapping_Tunnel

Wapping Tunnel crosses underneath the Northern Line Tunnel at a right angle right by the Black-E - roughly half way between Central Station and the proposed St James Place station. The intersection is clearly marked on Googlemap. Apparently some preparatory work was done in the area in the 70s, so I suppose a "China Town" or "Duke Street" underground station linking the City and Northern Lines could be a possibility there.

It's a pity you couldn't build a new above-ground station near Wapping/King's Dock that could be served by the Wapping Tunnel.

rob1966 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 31, 2021, 08:12:02 pm »

The Kirkby crash driver has been arrested for endangering passengers. video of the crash in the echo report, he was motoring

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/train-driver-arrested-over-kirkby-20295187

Thepooloflife · « **Reply #43 on:** March 31, 2021, 09:03:24 pm »

Quote from: rob1966 on March 31, 2021, 08:12:02 pm

The Kirkby crash driver has been arrested for endangering passengers. video of the crash in the echo report, he was motoring

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/train-driver-arrested-over-kirkby-20295187

Jeez, doing a fair lick alright.

Red Beret · « **Reply #44 on:** March 31, 2021, 11:20:53 pm »

How the hell does that happen? Did he just zone out or something?

Feel for him in a way. Will lose his job and probably facing a prison sentence, or a stiff fine and a suspended sentence. But you can't be doing stuff like that, he could have killed someone.

Ordinary people fuck up. Doesn't mean they're bad, but putting people's lives at risk is serious shit. Unless there was a proven fault with the train, but how likely is it the brakes failing at the very last stop?

rob1966 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 2, 2021, 09:50:37 am »

Quote from: Red Berry on March 31, 2021, 11:20:53 pm

How the hell does that happen? Did he just zone out or something?

Feel for him in a way. Will lose his job and probably facing a prison sentence, or a stiff fine and a suspended sentence. But you can't be doing stuff like that, he could have killed someone.

Ordinary people fuck up. Doesn't mean they're bad, but putting people's lives at risk is serious shit. Unless there was a proven fault with the train, but how likely is it the brakes failing at the very last stop?

Hard to say what happened. I've done that journey hundreds of times and there are plenty of reminders where you are, the biggest one being crossing the M57. There was a similar accident in 2006 in Sudbury where the driver blamed the brakes but they concluded it was driver error due to late application.

bradders1011 · « **Reply #46 on:** April 2, 2021, 10:32:13 pm »

RE: Manchester Metrolink - the basis of that network was existing rail lines or restorable cuttings outside the city centre. Does Liverpool have enough of those support a wider tram network?

rob1966 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 3, 2021, 10:20:07 am »

Quote from: bradders1011 on April 2, 2021, 10:32:13 pm

RE: Manchester Metrolink - the basis of that network was existing rail lines or restorable cuttings outside the city centre. Does Liverpool have enough of those support a wider tram network?

Some of it was, like the line out to Sale/Altrincham, but a hell of a lot wasn't. The city centre trams all run in the streets, the stuff that runs through Ashton, Eccles, Wythenshawe to the Airport and the new link to the Trafford Centre was all either built by compulsory purchase and demolition of existing buildings/houses and running the tracks through where they stood, by building on land adjacent to roads or by laying tracks down the middle of the street. The new Trafford Centre link mixes running in the road with land they took next to the dual carriageway.

Liverpool could follow suit and do similar works to what Manchester did.

Red Beret · « **Reply #48 on:** May 11, 2021, 08:53:06 pm »

I see the Bidston-Wrexham line is getting some new rolling stock. Was heading to New Brighton and saw them parked up at Birkenhead depot. Ex London Underground battery-diesel.

AndyMuller · « **Reply #49 on:** May 12, 2021, 12:25:38 pm »

The 8:35 Hunts Cross train is delayed day in day out by at least 10 minutes minimum. Shite.

Red Beret · « **Reply #50 on:** May 30, 2021, 08:30:10 pm »

They're real.

And bloody hell, they're fast.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/iAOfQQHoxSQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/iAOfQQHoxSQ</a>

So… Howard Philips · « **Reply #51 on:** May 30, 2021, 09:45:22 pm »

Quote from: Red Berry on May 30, 2021, 08:30:10 pm

They're real.

And bloody hell, they're fast.

They come into service in Autumn?

Red Beret · « **Reply #52 on:** May 30, 2021, 10:43:58 pm »

Quote from: So... Howard Phillips on May 30, 2021, 09:45:22 pm

They come into service in Autumn?

No idea mate. As others have said, it depends if Merseyrail have hammered things out with the union. They look effing slick though.

Check out the video I posted to the other thread that shows a 507 travelling from Hunts Cross to Southport back in 1990. Gawd, some of the stations are dilapidated! That said, it's amazing how much things have changed!

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #53 on:** May 30, 2021, 10:51:45 pm »

Quote from: Red Berry on May 30, 2021, 08:30:10 pm

They're real.

And bloody hell, they're fast.

I hope they will remember to stop at the stations, that is quick. I won't have time to read when I'm on the train.

keano7 · « **Reply #54 on:** May 30, 2021, 11:02:46 pm »

Quote from: jillc on May 30, 2021, 10:51:45 pm

I hope they will remember to stop at the stations, that is quick. I won't have time to read when I'm on the train.

Hopefully cut 5-10 mins off the trip to Chester from Lime Street!

Red Beret · « **Reply #55 on:** May 30, 2021, 11:18:26 pm »

Quote from: jillc on May 30, 2021, 10:51:45 pm

I hope they will remember to stop at the stations, that is quick. I won't have time to read when I'm on the train.

Apparently the new trains have the same top speed as the old ones, but they accelerate and decelerate much faster, which is where the timetable changes will be needed. They're basically just much more efficient all round, which is to be expected given the old trains were built in the late 70s.

Incidentally, I found another old video on youtube. This one seems to be a Merseyrail training video from the early 90s, showing some routes and sidings you wouldn't normally experience as a passenger. May as well share for those who like this sort of thing.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/brPh3yr_wf0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/brPh3yr_wf0</a>

Red Beret · « **Reply #56 on:** July 12, 2021, 09:26:06 am »

Here's another few videos I've found on the 777. The first 90 seconds of this one gives you a better idea of the stop/start when compared to the current trains.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/BFvbtP1XIms" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/BFvbtP1XIms</a>

For anyone like me who didn't check out the mock up, this video shows what's available on the new trains. Honestly, lack of toilets aside, they've really spared no expense on these machines.

And yes, some might find the lass doing the video annoying, but if you can stick with it there's some good bits on the potental future of the network.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/5PyJTtoNBQM&t=329s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/5PyJTtoNBQM&t=329s</a>

Thepooloflife · « **Reply #57 on:** July 12, 2021, 03:25:50 pm »

^ That's great RB, thanks.....certainly look good.

Red Beret · « **Reply #58 on:** July 12, 2021, 10:26:37 pm »

Another very interesting historical video from when the loop line first opened around 1977/78, showing the old 503s, and the current fleet back when they were brand new. Takes me back a bit! (Quite a bit actually!)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/MVgks22mkFI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/MVgks22mkFI</a>

AlphaDelta · « **Reply #59 on:** July 13, 2021, 10:36:06 am »

Interesting stuff RB, so as someone with zero knowledge on trains/railway, how many of these new trains have they invested in? Have Merseyrail purchased them, or are they financed/leased etc? How often do they invest in new trains? I'm guessing not very often as I remember the trains they use now years and years ago.

John_P · « **Reply #60 on:** July 13, 2021, 01:22:51 pm »

Pretty sure these are the first new trains they've purchased since the Merseyrail network opened.

The new trains are publicly owned.

Red Beret · « **Reply #61 on:** July 13, 2021, 02:57:28 pm »

Quote from: AlphaDelta on July 13, 2021, 10:36:06 am

Interesting stuff RB, so as someone with zero knowledge on trains/railway, how many of these new trains have they invested in? Have Merseyrail purchased them, or are they financed/leased etc? How often do they invest in new trains? I'm guessing not very often as I remember the trains they use now years and years ago.

I'm not much clued up on trains or railways, other than from a local history standpoint, but I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Merseyrail have bought the new stock themselves and it will be leased to the operator. The oldest trains in the current fleet are approaching 45 years service, with the younger ones at around 38-39 years. The previous trains, 502s and 503s, also had about 40 to 50 years service, having I think been built between 1936 and 1956.

Based on that, I'd expect the new 777s to have a minimum shelf life of 30 years, as they're based on a very common design in use all over Europe, with spares likely very plentiful. You're probably looking at late 2050s before they even start making plans to replace them.

I think they have 58 trains, with an option for 60 more, as they look to expand the network to Preston, Skelmersdale, Wigan and Wrexham. The new trains have been futureproofed, and can run on overhead wires, and also potentially battery over unelectrified stretches of track.

Red Beret · « **Reply #62 on:** July 13, 2021, 04:16:41 pm »

Quote from: John_P on July 13, 2021, 01:22:51 pm

Pretty sure these are the first new trains they've purchased since the Merseyrail network opened.

The new trains are publicly owned.

Yeah. Merseyrail's a bit of a unique case because it's a self contained network where other operators don't use their tracks. Everything is done in-house, including track maintenance. It's not exactly publicly owned, but it's about as close as you can get under the current system.

rob1966 · « **Reply #63 on:** July 13, 2021, 04:34:31 pm »

The bit you mentioned about accelerating/decelerating quicker. First have got some new trains on the Oxford Road to Lime Street line and we were at the local station on Saturday seeing her pissed up mate safely onto the train to Limey (both the missus and her mate where shit faced by 5pm, they met up at 2:30 FFS

). I thought the train wasn't going to stop it came in that quick.

I was surprised at the height of the step to get inside though, her mate almost fell off stepping that high while pissed

Red Beret · « **Reply #64 on:** July 13, 2021, 04:54:17 pm »

Quote from: rob1966 on July 13, 2021, 04:34:31 pm

The bit you mentioned about accelerating/decelerating quicker. First have got some new trains on the Oxford Road to Lime Street line and we were at the local station on Saturday seeing her pissed up mate safely onto the train to Limey (both the missus and her mate where shit faced by 5pm, they met up at 2:30 FFS ). I thought the train wasn't going to stop it came in that quick.

I was surprised at the height of the step to get inside though, her mate almost fell off stepping that high while pissed

Thank goodness our new trains have those retractable steps eh?

I've shared this video before, the cab ride from 1990, but I've just found another cab ride one from 2018. Thought it would be cool to put them together for comparison. For obvious reasons, the 2018 one has superior quality.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/1mx1ATImcuE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/1mx1ATImcuE</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/cr_CiIBhGv8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/cr_CiIBhGv8</a>

AlphaDelta · « **Reply #65 on:** July 13, 2021, 10:01:20 pm »

RB and John P, thanks for the info lads, interesting stuff, genuinely never realised they were so old.

Red Beret · « **Reply #66 on:** July 14, 2021, 12:17:30 am »

Quote from: AlphaDelta on July 13, 2021, 10:01:20 pm

RB and John P, thanks for the info lads, interesting stuff, genuinely never realised they were so old.

Honestly, I was never fond of the 507s/08s. I loved the 503s as they were warm and had character, but the new trains seemed sterile by comparison. I suspect the 777s will be a step up but only in comparison to what they're replacing.

I'm 48 next month, so I doubt I'll live to see any new trains on the network past the 777s. They're only the fourth class of electric train to serve on the Merseyside/Merseyrail network in a century, so may as well make the most of it

AlphaDelta · « **Reply #67 on:** July 14, 2021, 08:18:09 am »

Quote from: Red Berry on July 14, 2021, 12:17:30 am

Honestly, I was never fond of the 507s/08s. I loved the 503s as they were warm and had character, but the new trains seemed sterile by comparison. I suspect the 777s will be a step up but only in comparison to what they're replacing.

I'm 48 next month, so I doubt I'll live to see any new trains on the network past the 777s. They're only the fourth class of electric train to serve on the Merseyside/Merseyrail network in a century, so may as well make the most of it

Its a similar thing for me with buses, I'm far from an expert/fan/spotter, but when I was a kid in the 80s the buses seemed more warmer, comfortable, and even had a certain smell to them. I done a bit of digging once and found they were called Leyland Atlanteans and that occasionally they have a day for all the old buses to run between the Pier Head and Prescot. I was going for a pint with the lads in town so took advantage and got one of the old Atlanteans into town. All my childhood memories came flooding back, the sight, the sound, the smells, I was a kid being taken into town on a Saturday by my mum again, it was absolutely brilliant.

Haha, I've proper gone off on a tangent here!

Red Beret · « **Reply #68 on:** July 14, 2021, 08:56:16 am »

The Atlateans were awesome. Only stopped production in the 80s. Still had them in Malta doing city sightseeing tours.

Statto Red · « **Reply #69 on:** July 14, 2021, 11:05:18 am »

Quote from: Red Berry on July 14, 2021, 08:56:16 am

The Atlateans were awesome. Only stopped production in the 80s. Still had them in Malta doing city sightseeing tours.

Always remember hearing loud noise from the Atlantean at the old Pier Head bus station, when drivers used to rev the engine up.

Lad · « **Reply #70 on:** July 15, 2021, 06:57:36 pm »

Red seats with grey trim I seem to recall ! Could be wrong. Remember being excited as a kid when they started replacing the old crew operated buses. But I think conductors were still used on them initially.

rob1966 · « **Reply #71 on:** July 15, 2021, 07:06:31 pm »

Quote from: Lad on July 15, 2021, 06:57:36 pm

Red seats with grey trim I seem to recall ! Could be wrong. Remember being excited as a kid when they started replacing the old crew operated buses. But I think conductors were still used on them initially.

Red seats rings a bell, as do the conductors (no pun intended).

I used to love the old get on the back buses as you could sit right behind the driver and watch him drive the bus

Red Beret · « **Reply #72 on:** July 15, 2021, 08:50:10 pm »

Quote from: Lad on July 15, 2021, 06:57:36 pm

Red seats with grey trim I seem to recall ! Could be wrong. Remember being excited as a kid when they started replacing the old crew operated buses. But I think conductors were still used on them initially.

You are correct about the seats! I've shared a few videos showing buses from the mid 90s, and there were still plenty of Atlanteans around.

So… Howard Philips · « **Reply #73 on:** July 15, 2021, 09:45:23 pm »

Quote from: Lad on July 15, 2021, 06:57:36 pm

Red seats with grey trim I seem to recall ! Could be wrong. Remember being excited as a kid when they started replacing the old crew operated buses. But I think conductors were still used on them initially.

I remember the Atlanteans being the first bus without conductors. As a kid I wondered where the conductors had been sent to.

Red Beret · « **Reply #74 on:** July 15, 2021, 10:28:44 pm »

Quote from: So... Howard Phillips on July 15, 2021, 09:45:23 pm

I remember the Atlanteans being the first bus without conductors. As a kid I wondered where the conductors had been sent to.

They were. If you check out the Wikipedia entry (yes, they have one!) they were the first rear engined buses. Moving the engine back removed the need to a back entry (oo-er) so the driver was able to do everything from the forward doors, removing the need for a conductor.

Have some bus videos.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/vkIUmF7MV3s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/vkIUmF7MV3s</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/fJ4xATSbplw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/fJ4xATSbplw</a>

Slightly more modern buses here, but still mid 90s so a fair while back now.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/v1UB_ViQP14" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/v1UB_ViQP14</a>

And just to go back to rail transport, here's a little video of some of the disused or long forgotten stations in the network.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/FIne9yyXks8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/FIne9yyXks8</a>

Red Beret · « **Reply #75 on:** July 15, 2021, 10:34:47 pm »

Here's another open day video. Better quality from the 90s, but I'll stop after this as otherwise this will degenerate into a general transport nostalgia thread.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/j5B164CpJTU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/j5B164CpJTU</a>

You get a feel for the good, throaty sound of the Atlantean engine on this one.

So… Howard Philips · « **Reply #76 on:** July 16, 2021, 09:58:12 pm »

Steve Rotheram showing some ambition o extend the network.

Though why anyone would want to go to Wrexham.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57853592

Red Beret · « **Reply #77 on:** July 16, 2021, 11:11:25 pm »

Quote from: So... Howard Phillips on July 16, 2021, 09:58:12 pm

Steve Rotheram showing some ambition o extend the network.

Though why anyone would want to go to Wrexham.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57853592

It's interesting how Arriva Trains Wales just picked up some surplus London Tube trains for the Bidston-Wrexham run. I think they're diesel/electric, but if Merseyrail want to integrate the service, they'll need more than seven units.

They only have 52 units (I thought it was 58), so they'll need to pick up that option on the extra 60 if they want to get to Preston, Skem, Wigan, Wrexham, and provide an alternative route to Southport. Some stretches of those routes will have overhead wires, but it will probably be a case of laying unelectrified track.

Don't know why they mention the Baltic though, as that's on the third rail network.

Red Beret · « **Reply #78 on:** July 18, 2021, 04:21:22 pm »

Not really intending for this to be a historical or nostalgia thread, but I found this video and found it absolutely fascinating. I'd love to join one of these groups and go exploring like this.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/lrMFM6MzIT0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/lrMFM6MzIT0</a>

Red Beret · « **Reply #79 on:** August 6, 2021, 10:36:30 pm »

Here's another little trip down memory lane for the old Class 503 trains. It's great to see some film of their interiors, something I thought I'd never ever see. It's even odder seeing them next to the then brand new 508s.

You might want to mute the sound though, as there's a constant "film camera clacking" sound in the background and it's fucking annoying.

EDIT: just to clarify, the first four minutes of the video deal with the 503s, then it's some horse drawn buses, then about eight minutes in you see some 503s again, but this time in their original livery.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Ih-lUuOGL0A&t=5s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Ih-lUuOGL0A&t=5s</a>