Topic: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Brendan's round table cheerio.

[ShayGuevara]

I interpreted E2K's statement about the squad deteriorating under his watch in a different way. Perhaps E2K can clear up what he meant but I took it that he was referencing the departure of Suarez, Agger, Gerrard, Reina, Sterling - all top of the range proven players - none of whom to date appear to have been adequately replaced.

In many ways - as I've been banging on about for some time now - it speaks volumes of Rodgers efforts [despite the transfer monies available to him from some of those departures] that coupled with the grievous long term injuries to three other proven top class players - Sturridge, Flanagan and Enrique - Rodgers has actually done as well as he has to keep the show on the road - however wobbly that roadshow has been!!!

 

The Agger, Gerrard, Sterling, Reina or even Suarez were a long way away from the players we think of when we now hear their names.

It's nitpciking a top post to be fair but I just feel he's wrong on that particular point and Bredan inherited a mess. A side largely consisting of high earning, past their best footballers not suited to his style his style of play. A massive clear out job was needed, Klopp will have it much easier in that regard.

[ShayGuevara]

How is it a "risk" when we're in 10th and basically looking at finishing 5th under Rodgers? "Risk" would imply there's something we're risking. If Klopp finishes outside the top 4, then it's a neutral outcome. If he breaks into the top 4, then it's a positive outcome. The only way it's a "risk" is if we think there's a chance Klopp will lead us to the bottom half of the table, or relegation...Which...We don't.

Swapping a manager who has won nothing, for one that's won two league titles in a league more heavily dominated by 1 side than practically any other major league in Europe is the opposite of a "risk". It's a positive step towards progression.

1/ We're risking finances by sacking a manager, his newly appointed coaching staff and replacing them in the hope that the next manager does better. Not to mention players who may have to be signed to suit Klopps style, others that were signed by Rodgers maybe not suited to Klopps style as much as Brendan's etc.

2/ Theres nothing to say Rodgers wouldn't of finished top 4 this season. There's nothing to say Klopp will finish top 4 this season, next season or even the season after either. You are talking about Dortmund as a club, Klopp didn't single handily deliver them success nor is it likely he can single handily do it here. We've only signed one piece of a much bigger puzzle.

Just like any new signing, bringing in a manager is a risk. Especially when replacing a manager who wasn't all that bad, he just not delivering above expectations which any new manager must now also be able to do consistently to keep his job.

[Cork Red]

While Brendan Rodgers had to go in the end I think FSG, in general, and John Henry, in particular, should carry the lion's share of the blame for this fiasco.

Sacking a club legend like Kenny (a 4 time league winner) and replacing him with a man yet to turn 40, with only a single top flight season behind him, was a mad, mad gamble.  It's hard to think of another big club anywhere in the world that would make such a move.

That they would then not even ensure that he would be guided by an experienced Director of Football (even Kenny had Bob Paisley's close support when he was appointed player manager) was the icing on the cake.  The minute Brendan Rodgers said that he wouldn't be willing to work with a DoF, that should have been the end of the conversation: 'Nice to meet with you Brendan.  We wish you all the best in preparing Swansea for the coming season.' 

We then got the compromise of the Transfer Committee which was the worst of both worlds.  Brendan appears to have refused to give a fair go to several Transfer Committee signings (Ilori, Markovic, Sakho - for a long time), while we still had a selection of Brendan influenced signings that were vastly overpriced (Allen, Lovren, Lallana) and have largely not delivered.

I still think Brendan has something about him.  He'll probably never challenge for the title again, but he could still do a good job at a top half club.  His Swansea side played some very good football, as did we for 18 months of his time here.  It's just a shame that the other 18 months were so awful.

He needs to learn a few things.  He needs to learn who to organise a team to defend as a unit.  He needs to learn that there's a time when it is justifiable to criticise your team's performance and not just throw out bland platitudes that irritate even the most loyal supporters (Don't tell the fans that the team showed great character when, in reality, they haven't shown much character at all for a long long time).  He probably also needs to come to terms with the fact that very few clubs allow the manager full control over transfers now and even fewer will in the future.

[conman]

1/ We're risking finances by sacking a manager, his newly appointed coaching staff and replacing them in the hope that the next manager does better. Not to mention players who may have to be signed to suit Klopps style, others that were signed by Rodgers maybe not suited to Klopps style as much as Brendan's etc.

2/ Theres nothing to say Rodgers wouldn't of finished top 4 this season. There's nothing to say Klopp will finish top 4 this season, next season or even the season after either. You are talking about Dortmund as a club, Klopp didn't single handily deliver them success nor is it likely he can single handily do it here. We've only signed one piece of a much bigger puzzle.

Just like any new signing, bringing in a manager is a risk. Especially when replacing a manager who wasn't all that bad, he just not delivering above expectations which any new manager must now also be able to do consistently to keep his job.

2/ Brendans been trying to reverse our fortunes for over a year without success. It's time for a change.
There is little risk in appointing a better manager, despite the uncertainty of success.

[ShayGuevara]

People need to remember Klopp wasn't solely responsible for Dortmunds success. Bringing in his trusted back room staff is very important but what I think will be even more important is bringing in someone from Dortmunds scouting team, can we trust our comittee to unearth the Kagawas, Hummels and Lewandowskis?

Another possible issue is Klopps best attaributes supposedly being his man management. Can a German speaking coach carry those attributes to an English club with few German players? Oliver Kahn has mentioned how this may be an issue also.

The high pressure system and possible injuries and fears of it not working I don't see as much of an issue as some as I think we've a large squad which will continue to develop over the next few seasons and with the exception of a couple of positions have two XI's who can compete at the top level.

A pressing system like Klopps won't be instilled over night, with a tough run of games coming up it may be a slow start. What's more our side is no where near as clinical in its passing or finishing as Dortmund and that'll need a lot of work also. We're still very much a side who are developing and that's going to take time, the hope is that Klopp can speed up that development and help players reach unexpected levels.

If everything clicks it will be glorious. Certain things other than Klopps appointment need to happen to really make this work efficiently. The aim still has to be top 4 this season, manage that and anything is possible from there as its a young side who'll continue to improve for the foreseeable future.

[Le_Mot_Juste]

People need to remember Klopp wasn't solely responsible for Dortmunds success. Bringing in his trusted back room staff is very important but what I think will be even more important is bringing in someone from Dortmunds scouting team, can we trust our comittee to unearth the Kagawas, Hummels and Lewandowskis?

Another possible issue is Klopps best attaributes supposedly being his man management. Can a German speaking coach carry those attributes to an English club with few German players? Oliver Kahn has mentioned how this may be an issue also.

The high pressure system and possible injuries and fears of it not working I don't see as much of an issue as some as I think we've a large squad which will continue to develop over the next few seasons and with the exception of a couple of positions have two XI's who can compete at the top level.

A pressing system like Klopps won't be instilled over night, with a tough run of games coming up it may be a slow start. What's more our side is no where near as clinical in its passing or finishing as Dortmund and that'll need a lot of work also. We're still very much a side who are developing and that's going to take time, the hope is that Klopp can speed up that development and help players reach unexpected levels.

If everything clicks it will be glorious. Certain things other than Klopps appointment need to happen to really make this work efficiently. The aim still has to be top 4 this season, manage that and anything is possible from there as its a young side who'll continue to improve for the foreseeable future.

He speaks fluent English. The only manager I can really think of who suffered from a language barrier in England is Fabio Capello - who could barely string a sentence together after 3 years in the country. Klopp already speaks better English than the likes of Ponchetino, and probably Van Gaal (though this may be in part due to Van Gaal's senility) so I don't see this as being a factor even worth mentioning.

Agreed regarding the time it'll take to implement the pressing strategy though. The first 5 games are incredibly difficult on paper; but I think most supporters, despite the optimistic feel of bringing in such a highly regarded talent, are realists regarding the likelihood that it'll be next season that we really start to see a Klopp side, pressing in Klopp style, and winning the treble. You've got to be a realist.

[ShayGuevara]

He speaks fluent English. The only manager I can really think of who suffered from a language barrier in England is Fabio Capello - who could barely string a sentence together after 3 years in the country. Klopp already speaks better English than the likes of Ponchetino, and probably Van Gaal (though this may be in part due to Van Gaal's senility) so I don't see this as being a factor even worth mentioning.

Agreed regarding the time it'll take to implement the pressing strategy though. The first 5 games are incredibly difficult on paper; but I think most supporters, despite the optimistic feel of bringing in such a highly regarded talent, are realists regarding the likelihood that it'll be next season that we really start to see a Klopp side, pressing in Klopp style, and winning the treble. You've got to be a realist.

It's one thing speaking the language fluently so others understand and another being able to motivate players to play at the highest level of football in that language. Not to mention that being your best attribute as a manager.

It's hard to say, as I said a possible issue that was also highlighted by Oiiver Kahn who knows a thing or two about Klopp and football in general. Maybe we'll see more of a German-isation of the squad over the next few windows.

[Chakan]

He speaks fluent English. The only manager I can really think of who suffered from a language barrier in England is Fabio Capello - who could barely string a sentence together after 3 years in the country. Klopp already speaks better English than the likes of Ponchetino, and probably Van Gaal (though this may be in part due to Van Gaal's senility) so I don't see this as being a factor even worth mentioning.

Agreed regarding the time it'll take to implement the pressing strategy though. The first 5 games are incredibly difficult on paper; but I think most supporters, despite the optimistic feel of bringing in such a highly regarded talent, are realists regarding the likelihood that it'll be next season that we really start to see a Klopp side, pressing in Klopp style, and winning the treble. You've got to be a realist.

Couldn't understand half of what Roy was saying when he was manager, and the bits I did understand I didn't like. Klopp speaks better English than he does. I'm not worried.

[faisfais]

I still think Brendan has something about him.  He'll probably never challenge for the title again, but he could still do a good job at a top half club.  His Swansea side played some very good football, as did we for 18 months of his time here.  It's just a shame that the other 18 months were so awful.

"His" Swansea side... That statement on RAWK always bothered me. Swansea before Rodgers (Martinez, Sousa) and since (Laudrup, Monk) always appeared to be a well run club from top to bottom. He really did not have to do anything fundamental but not mess up. Maybe he did not have enough time to mess up.

[ShayGuevara]

"His" Swansea side... That statement on RAWK always bothered me. Swansea before Rodgers (Martinez, Sousa) and since (Laudrup, Monk) always appeared to be a well run club from top to bottom. He really did not have to do anything fundamental but not mess up. Maybe he did not have enough time to mess up.

True. Little bit like Tuchels Dortmund side

Sousa looks a top coach by the way also.

[Harinder]

Those who like Klopp's man management... stay tuned for something over the next day or so

[Filler.]

I wish I could sit down and read alot of what's been written, and I hope to do so at some point, but like a corporate behemouth, I just haven't got the time. Nor have you, so for you who've got this far, I'll be brief.

I just wanted to write something, devoid of persuasion so to speak.

Spent god knows how long defending Rodgers with those around me (I'm not on twitter or facebook - haven't been on here much either). Spent a long while defending Houllier, and Rafa, and Kenny. Didn't spend so long defending Hodgson mind. Fact is, I really got with the kids in those brief appalling months, and got a taste of what it was like to round up on a manager of Liverpool. Was weird, but so was the whole charade. There came a point with Houllier where I started to nod in agreement. Heskey wide right, Danny Murphy as a lone striker. Something like that. With Rafa, I always had issues, but always loved him, always thought he should be kept on. With Kenny? Christ... two finals!

But eventually, I started to work my way round to FSG's idea. I started to read Moneyball some months earlier, but got bored shitless on page 50 something. Stats and maths and equations and formulae I like - but where was the love interest!? I got 95% in my Maths exam, I've counted up to a million in felt tip dots⁽¹⁾, I used to try and pull birds.. DAMN! Women sorry, with my mathematical acrobatics. Maths, chess, logic, play a big part in my life. I enjoy the evaluation of things through figures and graphs and what have you, but it's an absolutely appalling way to base millions of pounds worth of investment. Especially in a game that you're dipping your toes in. I sort of understood what they were thinking tho, and the appointment of Rodgers made sense. There was an idea there. A big fundamental idea. Big club, young unproven manager - fucking difficult task.

It was sort of exciting. A manager with plenty of ideas, and a proven track record with getting the best out of young players. But that transfer committee... that whole bloody thing... the 'I'm not having a DoF' (quite rightly), but having that to deal with? Hiding to nothing, and it has to be scrapped. What a fucking appalling mess its been. £20m players getting loaned out? £16m players getting loaned out that had no business being here in the first place? I mean I even got giddy with the possibilities there with Balottelli, against my initial 'oh god, fuck no' thoughts. And although we never got to see him with Sturridge, why did we do that? Why did we buy Benteke too? What the fuck was that all about? (maybe the powers that be knew then what we know now). Now that Klopp's here, that may prove to be a good move, but it wasn't a good move when we signed him. It just looked fucking ridiculous. And this is part due to the transfer committee. It just became a massive fudge.

So we're delighted that Klopp has finally landed, and I'm delighted that he's brought his backroom staff with him so reports say. Good. Excellent in fact. Last thing we need is some sort of sentimental tie with the club in the shape of Carra or SG, or Fowler as assistants. Give the man what HE needs. Give the man what he needs (totally) and we'll get behind him. Give the man what the committee needs and we'll be re-doing this in about 3 or 4 years time.









Notes:

1. A 200x200 cm drawing I made with felt tip dots placed 2mm apart. Took me 136 hours to complete.

[Eeyore]

First I don't think there was something "clear" so see from the various ways Rodgers had our team playing. To me he hidded behind his speeches which changed from season to the other.

The team he almost won us the title with was nothing he had build with an intention behind it, too may of those players around before him and the system a "special", tailormade accident for finding the right spot for Gerrard during his last full season. Fair enough.

The thing is though that the chaos, and that's probably a polite statement, after this season was something I rarely witnessed on this level so far. Rodgers trial and error jumping from one idea to the next one had nothing to do with professional football nor trying to build something unique long term. Too quick he dismissed one plan for the next one just to go back to where he started from.

If the only way for having a team work is an adventerous 3 at the back after three full seasons than the only conclusion there is that this job was way too big for him. And that's all it was. At the beginning, and after the title challenge he escaped from that by playing it big to the press and probably within the club. But he couldn't find a reasonable way to manage this squad for consitent results, no matter which players he was given. Alonso won't come back, nor Suarez.

Overall he had no plan, sorry to say this cause I was one of those who really believed in him from the way he presented himself for some time... after all though, he didn't know what he was doing football wise, not to the level required, being a nice coach isn't enough, which I think, realistically he has been for the players.

For me the chaos was created because we recruited an ideological manager but then wanted to wheel and deal in the transfer market and wanted to buy based on value. If you want an ideological manager then you need to recruit players that fit within that ideology and if you want to wheel and deal then you need a pragmatic problem solver who will make the best of what you give him.

For me Rodgers wasn't given the players he needed and ended up not sticking to his principles and from that point on it was never going to work. As you say in the end he had no plan and swung from one extreme to the other however I am not sure that was all of his own making.

Hopefully the Club has seen the error of it's ways and we forget about wheeling and dealing and start to bring in the players that Klopp needs.

[jambutty]

 Klopp has an eagerness.  A fervor.  Warmth.  Belief.  It's infectious because he's bubbling.

It can only have a positive effect on the players.

Rodgers struck me as calm, cold, measured.  Slightly reptilian.

A bit like a used car or pharmaceutical salesman (no offense), capable of duplicity or subterfuge as necessary to keep the wolves at bay.

While those characteristics can be useful within certain team structures, it wasn't with us.

It's been a bit shit to be us lately.

This is gonna be fun.   

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Rodgers struck me as reptilian.
 (no offense),

none intended...well maybe just a little. I think that's slightly harsh.

[Standards]

what is needed is an older Manager. I still think Terry Mac small c dermott. He has already experienced everything the game has to offer - total success with his feet, and media wise survived the most awkward interview ever (with souness after 10-1 1980) He has served his time with Newcastle, so knows which games have to be thrown and those that have to be drawn.

I hope he at least grazed Souness, btw.

[Mutton Geoff]

For me the difference is Rodgers style was just about palatable for me when it had an end product, but i found Klopps style in just one game far more palatable even without the end product.

I always hated the endless and for me boring passing across our own box,

[Sangria]

For me the difference is Rodgers style was just about palatable for me when it had an end product, but i found Klopps style in just one game far more palatable even without the end product.

I always hated the endless and for me boring passing across our own box,

For me it was Rodgers' attitude and treatment of people that was problematic. Reminiscent of Hodgson at times. The quote about his approach to off record sounded like the opposite of Dalglish, who is my embodiment of what a Liverpool manager should be. The club is "us". The media is "them". It's a sad state of affairs when a player is a far better representative of the club's values than the manager.