Author Topic: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton  (Read 14675 times)

Offline Hinesy

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Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« on: August 27, 2011, 07:17:50 pm »
Fluidity. Smiles and fluidity are the two words I'd take from that game. Couple of things stood out for me, Carroll is a UK version of Kuyt in a lot of ways, Enrique and Agger looked like they were having fun and the interchangeable nature of the attack is a lovely and unusual thing to see. Even Skrtel popping up on the wing, (and scaring the ball with his head, into the goal), things appeared well for us.
So to start, have Bolton and Arsenal both had bad days, or have we discovered an unhitherto noticed trick, the flexible front?
Secondly, how would you play Gerrard now?
Just to get the ball rolling. And also, what toothpaste does Kenny use, cos his smile at Adam's goal was a joy to behold...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 07:20:24 pm by hinesy »
Yep.

Offline SMD

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 0 Bolton
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 07:19:47 pm »
I'm blaming you.
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 07:20:34 pm »
ha ha
Yep.

Offline StevenLFC

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 08:58:20 pm »
The fluidity in attack was the best thing about that game. Suarez, Kuyt, Henderson & Downing all interchanged throughout the game, each of them popped up in various positions making it so difficult for the Bolton players to pick them up. I thought Lucas was outstanding & Adam had his best game for us. It was a very good performance, and the only blemish was Carragher's error that allowed Bolton to get an undeserved goal. Having said that, it was heartening to see the disappointment on the faces of the players to let in a concelation goal.

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 08:59:50 pm »
Excellent display. I thought Henderson really came of age: not just in the goal he scored, but in the support he provided first Kelly and then Skrtel. Lucas was our standout man in midfield first half - he combatted with Davies expertly and I lost count of the amount of perfectly-timed slide tackles he executed. A proper selfless display.

The big elephant in the room, though, is clearly Liverpool with Andy Carroll and Liverpool without Andy Carroll.

Our movement in the final third is just so much more fluid when he's not in the side. The idea of Carroll's physicality is to create spaces for midfield runners. But Kuyt up front does a much better job at doing this with his continual running into the channels. You have to feel for Dirk - he's such an intelligent player - a midfielder's dream when playing up front in terms of giving them options - but he's just not quite blessed with the touch his workrate deserves. With that said, him and Suarez make for much better viewing than Suarez and Carroll at the moment.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 09:31:19 pm by Garstonette »

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 09:12:47 pm »
Could have been 7-0 quite easily that. Some truly sumptuous football. From 20-25 mins we had Carroll's disguised ball in behind that Suarez fluffed, then Henderson's lovely ball in from the right that just evaded Kuyt. Then the Suarez dink... and you're thinking "we're gonna stuff these". But we lulled in the latter part of the first half a wee bit.

Coates must have been excited, and then at the end he'll have seen Carra's brainfart and thought "ariba" or whatever it is Uruguayans think. Underlay underlay.

Gerrard? Drop Dirk and slot him in I reckon, and make it fluid.

Offline StevenLFC

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2011, 09:14:45 pm »
I think Carroll is a very good player, but it is a bit of a concern that we've paid £35m for a guy who doesn't really fit into a team designed to play with a lot of movement and fluidity. Kuyt deservedly started today and Carroll will have to play well to get the starting role back.

Offline BazC

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 09:37:00 pm »
What a performance. After the overhaul over the last few months, there's been a need for time and hard work on the part of everyone involved in the team, and a certain amount of patience required on the part of the fanbase. But that today was a real glimpse into the type of football we'll be playing regularly in the not to distant future. It was a game based on quick, accurate passing and you could see the confidence building within the team to play those one twos in tight situations. It was a real pleasure to watch.

When Adam signed, I wondered whether he'd be a regular for us. I couldn't quite work him out when he was at Blackpool, and of course, we had Aquilani who I was a big fan of. So Adam's a player I've tried to look out for these last few games, and it looks like he's getting consistently better- maybe the erratic nature of his passing at times this season, and at times last season was due to him playing for a poor team, and getting used to a team like Liverpool now. But it's definitely getting there. And in no small part due to the utter dominance of space afforded to him by Lucas. What a performance from him today- every bit as composed on the ball in the short pass as Alonso used to be for us and every bit as aware of the opposition players as Mascherano was. Alonso used to have that incredible knack of finding a quick short pass or switch across the field to relieve pressure instantly. People used to miss those because they were sideways or backward passes, but they were a fundamental feature to the way we played. Lucas did it all day in the tight situations that Xabi used to command in as well. In fact, he was even doing back heels and turns to make the space just like Xabi would. It was mesmerisingly good. Lucas isn't as good as Alonso at the longer passes.... but it doesn't matter, because Adam seems to be, or at least, he's good enough at making them and going for them. Between them, it's looking like a very dynamic partnership in that central midfield area; the ability to set the pace of a possession game, get assists, directly support the attack, defensive solidity and good set piece ability is what we have, and what we had in the last great partnership in that area of the pitch. Of course, it's early to hold Adam and Lucas up as equals to Alonso and Mascherano. They'll need to do it consistently in the league this season, and then against top teams in Europe for that to happen, but the potential is clearly there. I really look forward to seeing them this season. The more I see of Adam the more I like him.

Downing was class again- the guy oozes class. Some of his wingplay today was incredible, and the way he plays with the players around him is very promising. I'm hoping to see him score soon and ramp that confidence level up a few more notches, because he's on the cusp of becoming a Suarez or Gerrard type in terms of influence. And I can't remember the last time we had 3 truly world class players in our attack line up next to each other (one of the reasons it pissed me off Torres the c*nt left, because him lining up with Suarez and Stevie would have been mayhem).

I said before the match that I was hoping for Henderson to have a good match. I've liked what I've seen of him so far, but can absolutely understand the frustrations and apprehensions people have had of him since the start of the season. I saw people make comparisons with Lucas. But the thing with this lad is is that he plays in a position where all the top players in that position (the benchmark, if you like) contribute directly in attack (whereas with Lucas, that's not the case). So you'd expect him to be more than neat and tidy in possession (which he very clearly is)- you'd want more of a threat from him on goal. Well, he was one of the top chance creators last season, and today he showed why. Fantastic attacking performance from him- surprisingly, he's not actually an all guns blazing Steven Gerrard or Wayne Rooney type, but he's far more cultured it seems. I like that. It's almost deceptive. Apart from his well taken goal, he slipped some great through balls and crosses in and should have walked away with at least an assist. Of course, his all round game was solid as well as those direct contributions to goals/chances.

I could probably go on about every player, because they were all fantastic today. But Luis Suarez... what a phenomenon. He's unbelievably good at what he's doing. Kenny needs to get him working on his finishing though, because when he improves that, he'll be the best striker in world football, no question. But today, his all round game was on display in the most emphatic fashion I've seen from him. Two balls to Downing down the left and into the box were dripping with class... the flicks and one twos with Dirk all game had me swooning. The thought of how devastating he'll be when Stevie's back makes me want to jump up and down.

I should also mention Dirk. I've been a massive critic of his, but I'm a massive fan of him again. He's always done that and I take my hat off to him. I've always said that his first touch is inconsistent rather than shite- because he's a very capable player at times when it comes to the one touch, quick and tight football. He's showed it every now and then with Stevie, Aquilani and Torres. But now he's doing it with Suarez and it's a joy to watch. Sure, it's still inconsistent (I think it was Downing who crossed the ball to him at the edge of the box and a shit touch from him saw it roll away instead of turning into a shot on goal), but he's doing great in this team under Kenny is Dirk. Long may it continue.

And perhaps a slight negative to end on, but it's in all our minds. Andy Carroll. I just can't see where he fits in at the moment. Whenever he plays it seems to be a more slow, less dynamic game in attack. Defenders not only work us out quicker but they're actually good at keeping us away from goal more often than not. Without him, the team plays like a title contention isn't too far off. It's great football to see due to the speed up front. I just think Carroll being in the team slows it down. I can't work out whether that's down to how Carroll plays or if it's the way the team sets up to play around him when he's in it. Hopefully he starts looking more in tune with those around him. At the moment though, I'd like to see us stick with Dirk and Suarez up front with Downing. Next game is going to be a bit of a hard test, and I don't think the lethargic, slow football will cut it. It'd play right into the hands of the best lower league 'park the bus at home' team in the league. But due to the timing of the fixture, I'm guessing our Uruguayan maestro will be on the bench due to international commitments, so big Andy will have a good chance to get the ball rolling.

All in all, it's so nice to be able to watch some first rate football from first rate footballers again.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 10:00:51 pm by BazC »
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Offline SMD

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 10:32:17 pm »
Our attacking play has continued to improve under Kenny, despite the worrying performances during pre-season. Yes, we 'depend' on Suarez but that's as daft as saying that Barcelona rely on Messi for goals. He's best described as dropping hand grenades amongst the opposition defence. Even if he's not directly involved, he puts the shits up defenders. Skrtel's goal saw him marked by about 3 Bolton players. It doesn't matter if he's 5 yards or 50 yards from goal, he's lethal. And Downing, Henderson, Kuyt and Adam loved it. The touches and interplay were fantastic but really it was the way we were constantly moving, getting into space or pressuring the Bolton players that gave us control. I don't know how it looked to those at the ground but on telly, we looked quite energetic - hence running out of legs again.

I am slightly worried about Adam's agility but if we have the likes of Downing, Henderson, Lucas and Suarez making all the running we can afford the 'luxury' of Charlie Adam.

Lucas going down a few times scared the crap out of me, he's not just a brilliant ball winner but he showed yet again that he's the base of everything good we do. He might not be the most creative but he gives us the confidence to go forward, even if our defence's lack of pace doesn't ;)

I wish I could summarise my thoughts on Carroll and his role in the team but I can't. It'd probably deserve it's own thread and a lot of thought, which I'm sure is how Kenny feels. No way is he the big man just to lump it forward to, there's a lot more to his game. Yes, it's nice to have someone who can bully defenders but not at the expense of our style of play. I'm hoping that Coates is more comfortable playing it on the ground like Agger does but even Skrtel showed today he can play a bit if allowed. And Kenny is letting them play, so with more time to gel I can't see how it'll continue to be an issue.
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Offline BazC

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2011, 11:24:12 pm »
I wish I could summarise my thoughts on Carroll and his role in the team but I can't. It'd probably deserve it's own thread and a lot of thought, which I'm sure is how Kenny feels. No way is he the big man just to lump it forward to, there's a lot more to his game. Yes, it's nice to have someone who can bully defenders but not at the expense of our style of play.

I've just been watching MOTD and Lee Dixon picked out the way Downing created space in behind by dropping away from his fullback and pulling him out of position. That space was exploited time and time again by Dirk or Suarez- a simple run into it drawing defenders out of position to create space in the centre, or being able to receive the ball in it and you're one pass away from scoring a goal. Indeed, it led to the first goal we scored.

And that's why Dirk and Suarez look better than Suarez and Carroll. Because Dirk's so much more aware of those opportunities to pull defenders away, or pull into space- he's more mobile than the big man up front as well and that obviously helps. That's the reason those two make the team look so much faster in possession when it's in attack. Downing's a massive part of it, and I bet Stevie will be as well (but from the right) when he comes back in.

The big question is is this how Liverpool will play regularly, and if so, where does Carroll fit into it?

I'd love for Carroll to be our Drogba type- a massive battering ram of a player but one who is mobile, has a bit of pace and runs the channels to do the sort of stuff Dirk was doing today. But is he that type of player? From what I've seen of him, he's more static- the play seems to move around him rather than with him. Is that fair?

I know it's early doors, but for me it's an interesting discussion as the team seems to be coming together nicely, but he doesn't really seem a part of it at the moment.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 11:33:21 pm by BazC »
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Offline Garstonite

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2011, 11:30:59 pm »
I've just been watching MOTD and Lee Dixon picked out the way Downing created space in behind by dropping away from his fullback and pulling him out of position. That space was exploited time and time again by Dirk or Suarez- a simple run into it drawing defenders out of it, or being able to receive the ball in it and you're one pass away from scoring a goal. Indeed, it led to the first goal we scored.

And that's why Dirk and Suarez look better than Suarez and Carroll. Because Dirk's so much more aware of those opportunities to pull defenders away, or pull into space- he's more mobile than the big man up front as well and that obviously helps. That's the reason those two make the team look so much faster in possession when it's in attack. Downing's a massive part of it, and I bet Stevie will be as well (but from the right) when he comes back in.

The big question is is this how Liverpool will play regularly, and if so, where does Carroll fit into it?

I'd love for Carroll to be our Drogba type- a massive battering ram of a player but one who is mobile, has a bit of pace and runs the channels to do the sort of stuff Dirk was doing today. But is he that type of player? From what I've seen of him, he's more static- the play seems to move around him rather than with him. Is that fair?

I know it's early doors, but for me it's an interesting discussion as the team seems to be coming together nicely, but he doesn't really seem a part of it at the moment.



Perhaps Andy Carroll needs a team built around him?

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2011, 11:36:20 pm »
I think you just have to look at who was sat next to Lee Dixon to see a good example of someone who isn't the most mobile but can still find space. Carroll's young and in a side that is by and large just coming together. Once he knows where everyone wants to put the ball or run beyond him and once our players know how to give him the ball and how to support him, we'll see Carroll performing. I think he'll be the last of this crop to start to shine.
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Offline BazC

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2011, 11:39:06 pm »
Perhaps- it's why I wondered if the lads are going to play like this regularly? Either the team doesn't play a fast passing game and play to Carroll's strengths (assuming they're mutually exclusive as is the indication at the moment), or, they play like they did today, but with Carroll doing a similar job as Dirk's today (but with more goal threat of his own hopefully). There's been little indication of the latter, but whether it's a realistic expectation is the question.


I think you just have to look at who was sat next to Lee Dixon to see a good example of someone who isn't the most mobile but can still find space. Carroll's young and in a side that is by and large just coming together. Once he knows where everyone wants to put the ball or run beyond him and once our players know how to give him the ball and how to support him, we'll see Carroll performing. I think he'll be the last of this crop to start to shine.

Of course... but if the lads are playing as well as they are, will it not be hard to drop Dirk for Carroll knowing it's likely to change the dynamic of the team?


« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 11:44:19 pm by BazC »
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Offline SMD

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2011, 11:48:01 pm »
I don't think we should be dropping Dirk to make way for Carroll. But I also don't think that Carroll should automatically be considered a substitute or a liability. Carroll is the future and while Dirk is reliable, he should be managed in a way to maximise his influence in the first team rather than reach the point last year where even he ran out of steam. I think part of the reason that Kenny is rotating our strikeforce is to make sure none of them feel any pressure to have to score. Goals are coming from all over the pitch at the moment and I'm happy with that. If we do sign Bellamy and if rumours that we're looking at one more attacking player are true, this would be the best scenario.
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Offline Col

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2011, 04:17:02 am »
Carroll is an enigma. He just doesn't look fit or sharp.

I think the fact that he's a big guy means that people are tempted to hit long to him and try and get the other attackers to play off him, but I'm not sure that's where he'll be at his best for us. I think he'll be an asset in a team that builds the play up quickly, using him as a wall to bounce off around the half way line as we break, and having him as an option in the box at the end of the move.

We saw today that Zat Knight was struggling with Suarez when we hit him on the half-way line, but when we play Suarez there his first intention is to turn and dribble. Having Carroll playing that role may actually result in counter attacks being a more team-oriented thing, than relying solely on Suarez or Downing dribbling at pace.

What that needs, though, is for Carroll to be more mobile and sharper than he currently is. Dirk can play that role pretty well at times, and very well at others, but his touch is too tempramental for it to be a reliable attacking option.

A back-to-goal striker doesn't just come into play in and around the area - good use of one earlier in attacking phases allows you to 'go in to go out' - hitting the striker, for him to hold it up and allow the more mobile players to isolate the full-backs on the break. The problems come when the striker isn't then capable of getting into the box to help finish off the move, which is the case with Carroll at the moment - especially as Downing and Suarez are both very, very quick. Carroll needs to be able to cover 40 yards without the ball as fast as Downing and Suarez can cover it whilst dribbling, but he can't.

It's an issue - either he's involved in the build up play, or he's in the box. He's not sharp enough to do both at the moment. If he's involved in the build up, then we're a man short in attack. If he stays up high, he becomes somewhat isolated and people start to default to the 'hit him early', long-ball option which doesn't help anybody.

He needs to get fit, and needs to get sharp, if we're going to use his strengths in a pass-and-move system. Right now, he's a big square peg in a little round hole.
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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2011, 09:30:18 am »
That said, he did cause them problems when he came on. We spend a lot of time worrying about what Carroll isn't when maybe we should consider what he is. Say things had gone like Sunderland yesterday?

Anyway, the sudden depth we have in the squad is refreshing. We're in a luxurious position and the pattern (or patterns) are only really starting to knit together as players start to realise what their team mates are and aren't capable of. Two or three times yesterday things looked *on* if a couple of simpler passes had been played, but the player went for the more direct, ambitious ball. Sometimes that ball comes off, but they're intelligent players so you'd expect them to accommodate.

Very exciting times, but we need to be patient.

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2011, 11:28:53 am »
Carroll needs to spend this season learning very hard from Dalglish's personal tutoring. I think it's only at the end of the season we'll see if he has the same intelligence as the other players. The bonus is that we have the squad to afford that luxury.

Other than that - you guys have said it all - I thought it vital we went into the international break with a win. & probably no bad thing that Carra will spend the intervening days gnawing over that mistake.

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2011, 12:07:38 pm »
What I took out of it is that if we are to play a CM pair, it has to be Adam and Lucas, every time. Both excellent yesterday. CM is all about partnerships, and this looks like it has the potential to be a great one.
 
Again, raises the question of where Stevie plays. But that's another topic entirely.
 
Having a proper, reliable left side is a joy to behold. Excited.

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2011, 12:12:23 pm »

Again, raises the question of where Stevie plays. But that's another topic entirely.
 

I think it raises the question of where Meireles plays rather more. Options, squad depth. Arriba, indeed.

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2011, 02:15:11 pm »
In addition to some of the stuff you gents have spoken about, another point for me yesterday was runners from midfield. Henderson did this a few times, and scored once, Downing was offering himself up in the box when cutting in, as he did for the chance off the Suarez pass that led to the Henderson goal and even Lucas has been showing a willingness to bomb forward from time to time, Meireles was doing this against Arsenal and Gerrard will of course do this when he is back. Maxi as well.

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2011, 02:20:33 pm »
It's a fucking Godsend having runners from midfield again.
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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2011, 05:15:13 pm »
This is exactly it - runners from midfield mean an increased likelihood of sides getting a run on our centre halves from time to time, but it'll happen less and less when we get the blend and balance right. Lucas is massive for us.

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2011, 05:27:33 pm »
absolute joy to watch today(yesterday). movement, fluid and workrate were awesome. if this is how we will play week in week out then it is going to be fantastic to watch.
andy carroll does not look sharp and this may take time but surely with all respect to dirk but his touch has to be as good and even if he is slightly slower over the ground, when 100% is surely a better option. gerrard, johnson and possibly coates to come in then we look quite strong.

awesome performance
outlook: would like carroll fit as he gives us height at both ends because we were quite small at times on set pieces although we caused more problems than them. gerrard fit and probably like a big CB(coates 6"6) so as the opposition can not get out with a lump up the pitch.

we are 9 points ahead of spurs and looks like 8 ahead of arsenal so that is a good start for a minimum 4th place

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2011, 05:34:58 pm »
This is exactly it - runners from midfield mean an increased likelihood of sides getting a run on our centre halves from time to time, but it'll happen less and less when we get the blend and balance right. Lucas is massive for us.

That's the main reason for getting a new cb in in my opinion. One who is better than Carra in one on one situations. I'm not expecting much from Coates this season, as he's so young and inexperienced in the league, but I'm hoping he can line up alongside Agger week in week out by the end of the season.
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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2011, 05:57:14 pm »
I've just been watching MOTD and Lee Dixon picked out the way Downing created space in behind by dropping away from his fullback and pulling him out of position. That space was exploited time and time again by Dirk or Suarez- a simple run into it drawing defenders out of position to create space in the centre, or being able to receive the ball in it and you're one pass away from scoring a goal. Indeed, it led to the first goal we scored.
To be fair to the team watch the match (on re-run or LFC TV) instead of BBC hi-lights as they don't do our games any justice.
We bossed the game yesterday with 70%+ for long stretches of the match, We should have scored 3+ more goals than we did (back-pass, 1 pen, Kuyt Suarez scoring 1+ goals each).
looking at todays games with the Manchester clubs (8-2 & 5-1) we're gonna need goals to keep up with them, so-far this year we've been quite wasteful, but then again were still integrating 1/2 a side.
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Offline BazC

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2011, 07:13:23 pm »
Who said I Didnt watch the game live?
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Offline ..Bruiser..

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2011, 07:24:52 pm »
Simple game, pass the ball. I was proud of the entire team yesterday, the way the played was fantastic, especially considering that there are 4 new players there.
Gerrard in my own opinion would best play where Henderson plays in this team, the same for Meireles. I don't want to see anyone dropped but I do want to see Stevie Gerrard back. I don't really care what the 11 turns out to be for any game because they're all capable and play as a team.
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Offline StevenLFC

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2011, 08:04:37 pm »
Re: Andy Carroll. Maybe he's had it too easy all this time. As a youngster he wouldn't have had to think too much, he'd have been much more of a physical presence as other players, and probably got by on that. Then at Newcastle, they played the long ball and also used Barton wide right to put the ball in early for him. Kenny obviously wants to play pass & move football with midfield runners and quick, short, forward passes. This doesn't suit Carroll, and this may be the first time he has to adapt to a team rather than a team having to adapt to him.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2011, 08:07:43 pm by StevenLFC »

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2011, 08:10:01 pm »
think it would be just as wrong to wax lyrical about yesterday (it was great though) and what it means as it would to have drawn negative conclusions about the Sunderland game.

Its often the defeats which show the real issues with the squad not the days like yesterday so I'm a bit concerned about getting ahead of ourselves and a wee bit complacent.

its early days - we've clearly got a better squad than last season and we aren't shackled with our worst start in 50 years but all three of the teams the bookies have way ahead of us have strengthened massively this summer.

Arsenal will need to do something in the next 3 days or they wont be a worry, Spurs likewise.

We still need to get rid of 3 or 4 and get a couple in imho.

Although we look comfortable at the moment - its  a long season ahead and while we have good strength in depth there are a couple of positions where we'll struggle if there is an injury  -  Spearing for Lucas is clearly a down grade, no offence to Jay but Lucas has established himelf as class act in the last 18 months and Jay is still learning his trade and we still lack a pacey striker especially if we let Ngog go. Picking up on how important that pace has been down the left we dont really have cover for that (Suarez maybe but I'd be reluctant to give him any defensive duties)- Maxi's a clever player but does not have the speed to open the space that Downing does - I guess a striker/wide player with pace would complete the squad.
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Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2011, 11:47:18 pm »
The biggest pleasing thing for me yesterday was the fact we never took our foot off the gas from kick off until the end. I know Carra had a bit of a brain fart for their goal. But I always look for the positives and the positives have been plentiful so far in our first few matches.
I also think we have all the tools now of breaking teams that park the bus when they play us.
Brilliant options all over the pitch and long may it continue..

Offline edmundljs

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2011, 11:50:13 pm »
What a good keeper Jusk was. Credit to him for keeping Downing at bay leading up to the first goal. What a save!

Offline Harinder

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2011, 11:52:29 pm »
Fluidity. Smiles and fluidity are the two words I'd take from that game. Couple of things stood out for me, Carroll is a UK version of Kuyt in a lot of ways, Enrique and Agger looked like they were having fun and the interchangeable nature of the attack is a lovely and unusual thing to see. Even Skrtel popping up on the wing, (and scaring the ball with his head, into the goal), things appeared well for us.
So to start, have Bolton and Arsenal both had bad days, or have we discovered an unhitherto noticed trick, the flexible front?
Secondly, how would you play Gerrard now?
Just to get the ball rolling. And also, what toothpaste does Kenny use, cos his smile at Adam's goal was a joy to behold...


So to start, have Bolton and Arsenal both had bad days, or have we discovered an unhitherto noticed trick, the flexible front?

We've changed. 3 games and pretty consistent spine respective to choice of players. Their intelligence and ability is what Kenny saw and whilst others on boards couldn't see this all the time, myself included respective to Enrique, we now have been treated to some spine-tingling stuff  :D
Seeing Agger go forward in pomp was a sight for sore eyes.
Hearing Ring of Fire again just near about brought a tear to mine!

We also had ideas. A reduced hoof count didn't go amiss either. At one point when Carra/Reina/Agger passed along the back to somewhat take the piss out of Bolton it was a joy to see. If they weren't taking the piss they may have added a few grey hairs to me!

Secondly, how would you play Gerrard now?

Alongside Adam. 2 midfielders to drive the game but with Gerrard being able to control tempo I think we'd be scintillating. At times against Bolton the tempo control was a little missing or not easy to see who controlled it from the middle (more noticed by my cousin than me).  It would then mean the invariable adjustment of the right side where Henderson/Kuyt are.

Just to get the ball rolling. And also, what toothpaste does Kenny use, cos his smile at Adam's goal was a joy to behold

Colgate. The exact opposite of the fella below  ;D

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Offline edmundljs

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2011, 11:52:58 pm »
For the period of 15 minutes just before we scored our second and third goals, we looked world beaters. Breathtaking!

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2011, 11:55:25 pm »
Secondly, how would you play Gerrard now?

Alongside Adam.
Pretty staggered by that to be honest. Lucas was absolutely immense in defence and also was instrumental in prompting our attacking play. There's just no way you can't include him on current form, in fact on his form of the last two seasons.

I want Lucas and Adam as our first choice CM partnership. No matter what Gerrard himself thinks, he's better off elsewhere unless he reins in his game massively.
At times against Bolton the tempo control was a little missing or not easy to see who controlled it from the middle (more noticed by my cousin than me).
Lucas Leiva.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 12:07:13 am by The 5th Benitle »

Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2011, 12:06:28 am »
Pretty staggered by that to be honest. Lucas was absolutely immense in defence and also was instrumental in prompting our attacking play. There's just no way you can't include him on current form, in fact on his form of the last two seasons.

I want Lucas and Adam as our first choice CM partnership. No matter what Gerrard himself thinks, he's better off elsewhere unless he reins in his game massively.

Totally agree mate.
I reckon Gerrard was sitting there yesterday thinking how the hell he'll fit or where he will play into the team now.
Who would have thought that a few years ago?
I'm just made up that we have so many options available to us now and I'm sure (injuries permitting) Steven Gerrard will make a contribution to, hopefully a successful season ahead.

Offline Harinder

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2011, 12:26:36 am »
Pretty staggered by that to be honest. Lucas was absolutely immense in defence and also was instrumental in prompting our attacking play. There's just no way you can't include him on current form, in fact on his form of the last two seasons.

I want Lucas and Adam as our first choice CM partnership. No matter what Gerrard himself thinks, he's better off elsewhere unless he reins in his game massively.Lucas Leiva.

I didn't say to get rid of Lucas or state leaving him out. I couldn't advocate that in a million years. Please don't put words in that I haven't. Not really the spirit or nature of what I stated either.

The question posed was where you would play Gerrard now. I said alongside Adam. At no point does that equate to without Lucas. I even stated where the change, if it were made, would be. The hypotheticals for the reasons of how Stevie would get in the team are a few i.e. someone else injured or making way for him. Respective to this I stand by comment in line with the jest I've taken the question in. If the question was who would be dropped to make way for Stevie tomorrow then it would be totally different and like many, I just wouldn't know.

So, to ensure its clear and its not ambiguous in any way, I didn't say get rid of Lucas. I said the invariable adjustment of Henderson/Kuyt. By this I mean players who wouldn't be playing in their respective current position if Stevie is on the pitch. The whom, out of those 2, that would be sacrificed I just don't know.

So please reduce the stagger felt  :D

On tempo. Lucas 100% prevented Bolton building many things yesterday. Easily MOTM. Was he the sole person dictating the pace? Not in my opinion. Sometimes it was Charlie, other times Lucas and other times...well others :D

Was that intentional by Kenny? who knows. Do I think it was intentional? No. I think that happened by virtue of not having a tempo controller (singular) so to speak
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Offline woof

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2011, 01:49:52 am »
I knew we were going to play much better when I didn't see Carroll's name on the starting XI. Not having a go at him but he's either not 100% fit or hasn't worked out how to adapt to the team yet. From Reina to Suarez, we have a team that is quick (apart from Carra). Having Carroll in the team, we lose mobility and just like the Sunderland game, we struggle when we are not running without the ball as much. The play becomes static. No pass and move and we become insipid. Kenny and Clarko will have to devise tactics to include the big man and exploit his stature.

Just loved the way the team is passing and opening up the opposition's defence. It shows if the opponent's back four is static, they can be severely punished. I can't wait for Bellamy to return because he's ideal - quick, scores and makes goals. Just wondering what it might have been if Torres didn't leave

Offline RedRush

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2011, 05:33:23 am »
Better. Much better. Henderson's coming-of-age-game for us hopefully, and Suarez and Lucas were immense. It's a good feeling to have Kelly and Enrique as 1st choice fullbacks, hope Kelly's okay. Adam and Downing were much better and consistent all game. Kuyt was industrious as usual and his movement means he's first choice with Suarez upfront for me until Carroll proves it otherwise. It's also great seeing Agger and Skrtel bomb forward. Carra's okay all game except for the mistake at the end. Reina didn't have much to do. I'd say we are clicking into another gear. Just a wee concern we are playing differently with Carroll and without Carroll currently.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 05:37:56 am by RedRush »

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2011, 08:48:08 am »
I don't think Gerrard will have a problem getting into the side. There will be games different to this match where we don't play as well and the first people we will be looking to provide that extra spark will be Suarez and Gerrard.

I would expect him to replace Adam if we went for a 2 man midfield or play alongside Adam and Lucas, with Suarez up front and kuyt and Downing on the wings. Kind of like how we played away to fulham last season.

Offline jackfrancis

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Re: Round Table Liverpool 3 - 1 Bolton
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2011, 09:25:18 am »
Stoke away is going to be a big test for us, if we can grind out that win I'll be extremely optimistic about our prospects.