Topic: Nat Phillips

[Eeyore]

The problem here Al is that you're having a go at someone for 'basically throwing Klopp under the bus' but then making it very clear how unsuitable you see Nat Phillips as for us. Which is fine, we get it, we know how you feel on Nat. But then....that surely means pretty much the same in terms of basically throwing Klopp under the bus, particularly when we had other options there.

What other options. We had injury concerns over Gomez. We had major issues in midfield, so moving Fabinho wasn't an option and Van Den Berg is about to be loaned out to a Championship side. Phillips was the ONLY fit senior centre available to partner VVD. Even then he didn't last the full 90 minutes.

[Eeyore]

One thing I'm curious about - all minutes being equal - is whether our medical team consider it safer for a player to play x minutes from the start (having just completed full warm up), or whether to play those same minutes at the end of the game.

I'd have imagined from the start is safer, so I wonder if there's an argument that outside the box thinking could be used in similar circumstances (depending on tactical desires etc)

The intensity of games drops as they go on though. For me that is why coaches tend to prefer to bring players on later. So they have more opportunity to play within themselves and at a lower intensity.

[classycarra]

The intensity of games drops as they go on though. For me that is why coaches tend to prefer to bring players on later. So they have more opportunity to play within themselves and at a lower intensity.

Yes almost included this in first message but also thought forwards are often replaced (and will be increasingly, with five subs), so effect of that reduced intensity might be reduced these days

[El Lobo]

What other options. We had injury concerns over Gomez. We had major issues in midfield, so moving Fabinho wasn't an option and Van Den Berg is about to be loaned out to a Championship side. Phillips was the ONLY fit senior centre available to partner VVD. Even then he didn't last the full 90 minutes.

The other option would have been to sell Nat Phillips at one of many stages over the last year or so. He's still here, he's still seen as a genuine choice to start a PL game. Its not a last resort like it likely was in 20/21. You point out his weaknesses, how every facet of his game is unsuitable for Liverpool, but he's still there. So you can't nail someone for 'throwing Klopp under the bus' when you're talking about how far away from being good enough for us he is....and yet the manager still plays him.

Joe Gomez played when we were chasing the game, so I find it hard to believe it was that serious (or you know, he wouldn't have played). Ditto with Hendo. If the gaffer thought the same as you, he wouldn't have played Nat Phillips. He could have dropped Fab in and played Hendo, Harvey and Millie. He could have played Van Den Berg (who is still here).

Personally I think the manager took a risk which didn't pay off. We could have started Joey but felt we could 'get away with it' against Palace and keep him wrapped in cotton wool for United and until we know a bit more about Joels injury.

[Eeyore]

The other option would have been to sell Nat Phillips at one of many stages over the last year or so. He's still here, he's still seen as a genuine choice to start a PL game. Its not a last resort like it likely was in 20/21. You point out his weaknesses, how every facet of his game is unsuitable for Liverpool, but he's still there. So you can't nail someone for 'throwing Klopp under the bus' when you're talking about how far away from being good enough for us he is....and yet the manager still plays him.

Joe Gomez played when we were chasing the game, so I find it hard to believe it was that serious (or you know, he wouldn't have played). Ditto with Hendo. If the gaffer thought the same as you, he wouldn't have played Nat Phillips. He could have dropped Fab in and played Hendo, Harvey and Millie. He could have played Van Den Berg (who is still here).

Personally I think the manager took a risk which didn't pay off. We could have started Joey but felt we could 'get away with it' against Palace and keep him wrapped in cotton wool for United and until we know a bit more about Joels injury.

Phillips for me is still here because no one has met our valuation. As for the manager still plays him. Come on the only first team minutes he ever gets is if we get a horrendous injury crisis.

[El Lobo]

Phillips for me is still here because no one has met our valuation.

Maybe so Al but again (and probably again) if he was as unsuitable as you say he is for us....we wouldn't play him. We've no reason to, if we had Mario Balotelli on our books right now I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be thinking about starting him against United if Bobby is out injured. He is limited, he isn't close to the other four senior CBs we have, but he clearly has enough in his game that the manager would play him in a league game without too much hesitation.

[Eeyore]

Yes almost included this in first message but also thought forwards are often replaced (and will be increasingly, with five subs), so effect of that reduced intensity might be reduced these days

I think it is more the overall intensity that matters though. It is the general pace that games start off at that catches semi fit players out. The constant changing off direction and twisting and turning because the ball has to be moved quicker at the start of games. The Fulham game would be a good example. First half hour they pressed like mad but then the pressure on the ball dropped off as the game went on.

[classycarra]

I think it is more the overall intensity that matters though. It is the general pace that games start off at that catches semi fit players out. The constant changing off direction and twisting and turning because the ball has to be moved quicker at the start of games. The Fulham game would be a good example. First half hour they pressed like mad but then the pressure on the ball dropped off as the game went on.

Although game context matters - in contrast, I think Palace barely pressed if at all in the first half hour (plus were pinned back by our start).

The twisting and turning etc is kind of my initial point - surely players are better protected from niggling injuries after the full extensive warm up, rather than coming on an hour after the subs pre game warm up and some stretches and exercises on the sideline

[John C]

Who will be our 5th choice CB when Phillips eventually moves on and will he immediately become as controversial and not deserve the 5th choice spot also?

What a strange world.

[Samie]

Rhys Williams. 

[MonsLibpool]

Who will be our 5th choice CB when Phillips eventually moves on and will he immediately become as controversial and not deserve the 5th choice spot also?

What a strange world.

Fab can drop in there occasionally with Hendo being the 6.

[G Richards]

Gomez not match fit, carrying a little knock. So what do you do? Start him, and run the risk of making a minor injury more of a thing? Or keep him on the bench, hope you won't need to call on him, but if you do, then it is only for a portion of the game, depending on when he comes in.

We all know the decision Klopp and the team took, and with all the data they have, plus their own eyes as they look at them in training, plus the conversations they have with the players themselves, they made the call.

We can Monday morning quarterback it all we like, but they made a reasonable enough decision.

As for Zaha, he has given plenty of defenders in the league a lot of trouble over the years, especially on the break. It's unfortunate that it happened with Nat Phillipps on the pitch, but he has done it to plenty of defenders who we would consider to be better than Phillipps.

Nat Phillipps is a solid citizen. Definitely good enough for lower Prem. If he plays in a team where the line isn't so high, he will be a stout defender for someone - decent enough on the ball, brave, strong in the tackle, and excellent in the air at the back.

It is odd to me that someone hasn't bought him yet. It might be because of our valuation, or it might be because clubs don't rate him as much as I do. Or it might be that they sense Liverpool's valuation will drop, and they will get themselves a bargain late in the window. 

[stockdam]

Maybe the opposition targeted the younger player who lacks pace and played in the Championship last season, rather than the best central defender in the world?

I read this a lot about Phillips but I think he is only slow compared to most of our other defenders. However I think he may be as fast as Matip if not faster (sprinting speed). He’s faster than Henderson, Thiago, Jones, Milner and Fabinho and possibly Firmino and Keita.

Anyway, Zaha is generally clocked as in the top 4 or 5 fastest players in the league and is faster than any of our defenders. Once he beat our high line then nobody was catching him. Phillips is not the slouch that many people think; he’s not “Maguire” slow. Palace took their goal well and it was Fabinho who could have done better.

Phillips is not a regular defender for us and it would be natural for Zaha to target him.

We didn’t drop 2 points due to Phillips as the whole team wasn’t functioning well enough.