Topic: The Anfield Wrap

[the 92A]

It's not the first time drink and TAW have mixed badly. They did a post-friendly show in Boston I think it was last summer and it was pretty crass. I think they are too big to play like that anymore.

We're human beings and all different, with my wife and daughter both working in Fazakerley hospital I've been exemplary in my behaviour over covid, when we won the league me and my daughter had to get out, loads of fireworks going off, cars beeping in joy, live in North end so ended up driving through Anfield realised Walton Breck was cordoned off so went up robson street and cut down by venmore got out watched the crowd then decided too packed so got off. totally non planned and spontaneous. Next day harder to justify but thought that discussion on the Anfield Wrap about what went on was sensible, nuanced and hit the right tone. I don't think it was defendable but the medias condemnation and moralistic tone pissed me off and it was good that the Anfield Wrap was able to put the thing in context without defending the undefendable. Glad that they are diverse and still small enough to represent the different strands of our fan base and yes some of them don't get everything perfect every time but they apologised and then provided the best  analysis and summation of what went off at the Pier Head I've heard.

[Kenny's Jacket]

It's not the first time drink and TAW have mixed badly. They did a post-friendly show in Boston I think it was last summer and it was pretty crass. I think they are too big to play like that anymore.

Fucking hell.  Some lads got pissed in a pub.  How is that an issue?

The Pier head stuff, yes utterly stupid but not getting pissed in a pub.

[Hij]

Drink it in

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Mu59tnYNBO8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Mu59tnYNBO8</a>

Yep this was what I was hoping they would do and was brilliant to listen to it after a couple of bottles of prosseco last Thursday night

[Hij]

It's not the first time drink and TAW have mixed badly. They did a post-friendly show in Boston I think it was last summer and it was pretty crass. I think they are too big to play like that anymore.

I had a blast at their end of season party last season which was fantastic.

What was so bad about it, other than it being 'crass'?  You have listened to the podcasts right?

[Gifted Right Foot]

Drink it in

That really hits home the journey of this club in recent times.  Got goosebumps listening to that.  Fuck me i'm emotional again. 

[Fitzy.]

The Pier Head stuff was wrong, TAW’s engagement in it was ill-advised and the ensuing apologies and mia culpa are welcome and appropriate.

The fact that TAW feel obliged to apologies is, in some ways, a testament to their growing footprint in fan media and their influence on LFC fan culture that’s gone hand-in-hand with the exponential growth of Liverpool’s overall global reach across social and mainstream media. Liverpool Football Club have become a huge story in recent years, which has shone a light on the city and the people that live there. TAW have been front and centre throughout this period.

While this attention is broadly welcome and the coverage is largely positive, there is of course a debit side to everything in life. In this instance, the downside to being the main attraction is that transgressions become really big news. As (probably) the biggest LFC fan media operation out there, TAW have had to carry the burden of the fallout from Thursday and Friday night. To some extent, this is fair game as they have looked to build themselves up as a popular voice that represents fans from within the city.

However, the flipside to TAW’s culpability in this story is that they are not experts in town administration, crowd control and the finer points in an ambiguous set of government post-lockdown guidelines. They’re also a group of people who have existed for what happened in football last week – the ensuing hours that followed Chelsea’s victory were a blur of absolute joy and relief. Not being at your best in these moments is understandable; calling for a measured and considered response is not, in fact, reasonable. Missteps were not unlikely.

The sweet taste of disapproval is an emerging factor in modern-day life. There’s nothing better than to laud it over others for their behaviour. This isn’t to say that we should not condemn bad behaviour; but it is to say that the modern propensity for ‘the pile on’ is absolutely exhausting as it offers the perpetrators no way out other than to be cast into the pit of public disgust and to then grovel for clemency.

My point is that TAW has grown to a level that even the folks who run it probably never anticipated. I’m pretty sure they never predicted that they would be perceived as the climate setters in how people could and should respond to the end of a 30-year title drought. Yes, some contributors haven’t covered themselves in glory since Friday…but I do feel compelled, as a huge fan of TAW, to suggest to people that they should bin their sanctimony; dial it down. This is, after all, a great moment for the fan base and TAW have been very important for fans around the world in feeling connected to the club and fellow fans throughout the last few years – me included.

So let’s ease off, eh?

[Jookie]

Snip

I've posted above giving my disapproval for what happened on the pod on Friday but I agree with a lot of what you've said. I think some of the stuff posted on Thursday night was surprising given TAW's stance on social distancing and crowds gathering due to football. But in saying all that it was spontaneous and driven by the same joy we all felt by ending a 30 year title drought.

Their Friday coverage around the Pier Head and what individual contributors and staff posted on Twitter is probably disappointed me the most.

The bits I disagree with are below:

However, the flipside to TAW’s culpability in this story is that they are not experts in town administration, crowd control and the finer points in an ambiguous set of government post-lockdown guidelines.

Firstly I don't think TAW are culpable for what happened at the Pier Head. But you didn't need to be an expert in town administration and government policy to know that gathering in thousands at the Pier Head was wrong. The club and manager had blatantly stated don't do big gatherings as well. You also didn't need to be a genius to understand that while 99.9% of people at the Pier Head would be reasonably behaved and there for celebration that there was always a possibility a very small minority taking things the wrong way in the current environment. I'm not saying they could have foreseen some nobheads firing fireworks at the Liver Buildings but there was always a potential, however small, for things to kick off.

The strength of the reaction against TAW, by TAW subscribers and listeners, is probably driven by disappointment. Disappointment that they got certain things wrong when they hardly ever misstep. It's been pleasure to listen to over the years and provide a real connection to the football club and the city. I'd never call them out for having a different opinion about a football player or a general footballing matter but last week some people associated with TAW got some things wrong.  I don't think it's because of the below. From what I've seen people aren't piling in on them due to the media reaction. There was a lot of negativity fired John Gibbons way on Friday night when he posted photos on Twitter (personal account) from the Pier Head. I think people where genuinely shocked and disappointed

The sweet taste of disapproval is an emerging factor in modern-day life. There’s nothing better than to laud it over others for their behaviour. This isn’t to say that we should not condemn bad behaviour; but it is to say that the modern propensity for ‘the pile on’ is absolutely exhausting as it offers the perpetrators no way out other than to be cast into the pit of public disgust and to then grovel for clemency.

I'm not going to say anything else on the matter but I think your last paragraph is true. TAW have grown bigger than they expected and their reach within the fanbase is huge. That's a great advantage for them the vast majority of the time but can be a disadvantage on a small number of occasions. It's why I think we've seen a considered response to this on the pods since. I do wonder if they can genuinely have someone like Kev Walsh back on, given how much he seems to have rubbed people up the wrong way around this.

Hey ho, we are league champions and that's the important thing. No need to drag this out any more but after consideration over the weekend I felt like I had to say something since I was disappointed in them.

[Fitzy.]

snip

Thanks for the reply - all very reasonable. I hope Kev Walsh does remain on TAW.

[red_Mark1980]

People need to taken responsibility for their own actions.

I'm no more part of what went on at pier head than my bluenose mates are an example of the examples of idiots we see at each derby.

I'm getting older and seeing there are things I can control. Which is broadly what I do. There are things out of my control, which is broadly the actions of others.

I feel no more responsibility for what happened at pier head than I do when white men commit acts of atrocity.

They can do whatever they want, they are all grown ups.

But if you're using a video or Kev Walsh as an excuse for what happened on Friday you probably need to have a think about what's going on in your life

[CONFIAMOS]

So let’s ease off, eh?

No one's going in two footed here, just providing opinions and I think it's totally fair that people can comment on here given we don't all have twitter etc. - we don't exactly need some giving instructions like that.

[Timbo0151]

Felt uncomfortable registering my view on it anyway, so removed it now.

Can't be arsed.

Off to reassess my life as suggested.

[Jookie]

But if you're using a video or Kev Walsh as an excuse for what happened on Friday you probably need to have a think about what's going on in your life

Who has done that on here?

[red_Mark1980]

Who has done that on here?

The fact his name has come up is ridiculous. Maybe it's a poor choice of words on my part.

Not as an excuse then, but holding them to account for a video or a comment on the Friday morning.

I'm not living in Liverpool anymore, but it was clear from early on Pier Head was going to be the centre of it all.

Personally, if we hadn't been in lockdown I'd have stayed clear anyway. It had all the hallmarks of a complete shit show.

Honestly the whole of the TAW could have been there asking everyone to go and I wouldn't have gone.

I don't feel like they have anything to say on it. If you take your lead from (in their own words at times) a gang of dickheads then you're a dickhead. Not that I think they are dickheads. 

If Rushy, Fowler and Kenny told me to come down to pier head. I wouldn't have. Because I'm responsible for my own actions. And I have zero appetite for anything like Friday night

[Jookie]

The fact his name has come up is ridiculous. Maybe it's a poor choice of words on my part.

Not as an excuse then, but holding them to account for a video or a comment on the Friday morning.

I'm not living in Liverpool anymore, but it was clear from early on Pier Head was going to be the centre of it all.

Personally, if we hadn't been in lockdown I'd have stayed clear anyway. It had all the hallmarks of a complete shit show.

Honestly the whole of the TAW could have been there asking everyone to go and I wouldn't have gone.

I don't feel like they have anything to say on it. If you take your lead from (in their own words at times) a gang of dickheads then you're a dickhead. Not that I think they are dickheads. 

If Rushy, Fowler and Kenny told me to come down to pier head. I wouldn't have. Because I'm responsible for my own actions. And I have zero appetite for anything like Friday night

I said I wouldn't say anything else but feel like I need to respond to this.

I agree with a lot of what you've said and I wouldn't have gone down the Pier Head in most circumstances. For the reasons you've stated. The fact that it was plainly the wrong thing to do, in most people's eyes given the current pandemic, means there are going to be more people who disagree with it. It's part of the reason there was a couple of thousand there rather than 10's of thousands. Most people swerved it.

I don't think anyone is saying that people went to the Pier Head because of TAW. Or that TAW are in anyway to blame for what went on. However, for a group that have spoken so sensibly about the covid-19 pandemic and it's impact on football and football crowds, it was disappointing to see some of the output that I think provided some type of legitimacy to a gathering at the Pier Head for those inclined to attend.

From what I've seen I think there has been a starker focus on individuals like John Gibbons and Kev Walsh. I think some people have focused on Kev Walsh because as a TAW contributor he was there and has been quite vocal on Twitter that he wasn't in the wrong to be there. Rightly or wrongly that's rubbed people up the wrong way.

[ljycb]

That was a brilliant podcast and although I disagree with a lot of what Robbo and Jay were saying on the celebrating, I appreciate the honest approach to it and it definitely didn’t come across like they were just looking to defend themselves.

[red_Mark1980]

I said I wouldn't say anything else but feel like I need to respond to this.

I agree with a lot of what you've said and I wouldn't have gone down the Pier Head in most circumstances. For the reasons you've stated. The fact that it was plainly the wrong thing to do, in most people's eyes given the current pandemic, means there are going to be more people who disagree with it. It's part of the reason there was a couple of thousand there rather than 10's of thousands. Most people swerved it.

I don't think anyone is saying that people went to the Pier Head because of TAW. Or that TAW are in anyway to blame for what went on. However, for a group that have spoken so sensibly about the covid-19 pandemic and it's impact on football and football crowds, it was disappointing to see some of the output that I think provided some type of legitimacy to a gathering at the Pier Head for those inclined to attend.

From what I've seen I think there has been a starker focus on individuals like John Gibbons and Kev Walsh. I think some people have focused on Kev Walsh because as a TAW contributor he was there and has been quite vocal on Twitter that he wasn't in the wrong to be there. Rightly or wrongly that's rubbed people up the wrong way.

Kev is (unless I'm mistaken) not employed by TAW. They aren't the media.

Gibbo and Neil are at pains to put that across. They have spoken sensibly. But similarly I'll disagree with them at times. I'll agree.

They have no more reason to apologise than Carragher does.

[Fitzy.]

Enjoyed the latest Greatest. Good that 78/79 got a strong airing - what a side that must’ve been.

[Chivasino]

Some of the contributors really need to stop with the "scouse as" shouts. Like a group of lads outside of Liverpool have never had a sing and dance to 'Show Me Love'. I reckon thousands have.

[ljycb]

Some of the contributors really need to stop with the "scouse as" shouts. Like a group of lads outside of Liverpool have never had a sing and dance to 'Show Me Love'. I reckon thousands have.

I think that's just something we say in Liverpool, certainly never meant as a slight against anyone else. For example, the song "Dignity" by Deacon Blue is as Scouse a song as I can imagine, every single party I've been to has had a rendition of it at some point, but I'm sure there are people all over who love it just as much as a lot of us seem to.

[CONFIAMOS]

Some of the contributors really need to stop with the "scouse as" shouts. Like a group of lads outside of Liverpool have never had a sing and dance to 'Show Me Love'. I reckon thousands have.

Can't think of a tune more scouse for the occaision to be honest. Maybe a Swedish House Mafia one, which would have been even more scouse. Even though people from other places like the Swedes... in summary...

It's just a saying up here 'gerroverit'.

[Hightown Phil]

Some of the contributors really need to stop with the "scouse as" shouts. Like a group of lads outside of Liverpool have never had a sing and dance to 'Show Me Love'. I reckon thousands have.

That’s not what it means. It isn’t claiming exclusivity.

[Fitzy.]

That’s not what it means. It isn’t claiming exclusivity.

Classic Phil - such a scouse response...

[thekitkatshuffler]

The fact his name has come up is ridiculous. Maybe it's a poor choice of words on my part.

Not as an excuse then, but holding them to account for a video or a comment on the Friday morning.

I'm not living in Liverpool anymore, but it was clear from early on Pier Head was going to be the centre of it all.

Personally, if we hadn't been in lockdown I'd have stayed clear anyway. It had all the hallmarks of a complete shit show.

Honestly the whole of the TAW could have been there asking everyone to go and I wouldn't have gone.

I don't feel like they have anything to say on it. If you take your lead from (in their own words at times) a gang of dickheads then you're a dickhead. Not that I think they are dickheads. 

If Rushy, Fowler and Kenny told me to come down to pier head. I wouldn't have. Because I'm responsible for my own actions. And I have zero appetite for anything like Friday night

Glad you're alright, Jack.

[gazzalfc]

Clive Tyldesley doing commentary with Gibbo and Atko on Hotmic

[Iska]

Some of the contributors really need to stop with the "scouse as" shouts. Like a group of lads outside of Liverpool have never had a sing and dance to 'Show Me Love'. I reckon thousands have.

Missed this but I couldn’t disagree more strongly with this shout.  I’ve only ever taken it as pointing out things that typify a certain Liverpool aesthetic.  I love that, for anywhere - it’s absolutely the best thing for giving you a sense of the culture of a place, even if you can’t quite articulate exactly what that is.  You can even start filling in the dots yourself.  Like, I’ve never heard them mention this, but I’d just about bet my house that ‘The Whole of the Moon’ will also be scouse as fuck.

[courty61]

I think that's just something we say in Liverpool, certainly never meant as a slight against anyone else. For example, the song "Dignity" by Deacon Blue is as Scouse a song as I can imagine, every single party I've been to has had a rendition of it at some point, but I'm sure there are people all over who love it just as much as a lot of us seem to.

My late cousin loved that Dignity song. He Used to do karaoke to it in the Little Croc in town. Quintessential scouse song from a non scouse band.

George played it at half time v Atletico which made me well up - thought it was an omen! Obviously not.

But yeah just something scousers say not meant to be a slight.

[thekitkatshuffler]

Missed this but I couldn’t disagree more strongly with this shout.  I’ve only ever taken it as pointing out things that typify a certain Liverpool aesthetic.  I love that, for anywhere - it’s absolutely the best thing for giving you a sense of the culture of a place, even if you can’t quite articulate exactly what that is.  You can even start filling in the dots yourself.  Like, I’ve never heard them mention this, but I’d just about bet my house that ‘The Whole of the Moon’ will also be scouse as fuck.

Renaming your flagship post match show to appeal to a wider demographic of consumers - scouse as that.

Saying you went out to celebrate in a crowd because Tory guidelines allow it and Boris didn't say you couldn't - scouse as fuck that.

Yeah, if you're from outside Liverpool I certainly wouldn't take "scouse as" as a slight on you or wherever you come from.

[Fitzy.]

Other than the post match pint, I’m not seeing much exclusive video content emerging - just seems to be doubled up podcast content. Am I missing something?

[Hij]

Could it be to do with the covid stuff for now? Not sure I don't watch the videos.

[Hij]

Clive Tyldesley doing commentary with Gibbo and Atko on Hotmic

Didn't get the chance to listen as I guess you have to watch a stream to take advantage of it but what a coup! Neil spoke glowingly about listening to him back in the day so must be great for him to commentate at the same time. Can you listen back?

[Fitzy.]

Didn't get the chance to listen as I guess you have to watch a stream to take advantage of it but what a coup! Neil spoke glowingly about listening to him back in the day so must be great for him to commentate at the same time. Can you listen back?

You don’t need a stream. You just listen while you have it on your telly.

[red_Mark1980]

You can listen back, will be on the "previous broadcast" tab

[dai_bonehead]

Although i enjoyed Clive on hotmic, I actually prefer the chat between the wrap guys. Like earwigging the conversation of some of the funniest, sharpest lads.

[Dougle]

Although i enjoyed Clive on hotmic, I actually prefer the chat between the wrap guys. Like earwigging the conversation of some of the funniest, sharpest lads.

Clive was really good I thought. Great night, shame about the result.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Great talking reds response to the statue. Robbo and Damien said exactly what I feel about it all. Cheers.

[lamonti]

This podcast special is very very well edited. I really like the approach of adding no contextualising narrative (plenty of time for that later), just audio from the various Previews, Pinks, Overviews and so on. Well done.

[red_Mark1980]

This podcast special is very very well edited. I really like the approach of adding no contextualising narrative (plenty of time for that later), just audio from the various Previews, Pinks, Overviews and so on. Well done.

I had a mini "what the " when I heard Neil telling me it was the fixture release show... Like when did I miss that 😂😂😂

[craiglfc7]

This podcast special is very very well edited. I really like the approach of adding no contextualising narrative (plenty of time for that later), just audio from the various Previews, Pinks, Overviews and so on. Well done.

Lizzi has done a brilliant job. Four parts i think!

If you enjoyed that, have a watch of How The League Was Won - it's a video version, but using none of the same content - Post Match Pints, Free Shows & Talking Reds to tell the story. Lovely to watch back, and no overlap apart from maybe one Neil Docking part during the Man City pink haha.

[Crosby Nick]

Lizzi has done a brilliant job. Four parts i think!

If you enjoyed that, have a watch of How The League Was Won - it's a video version, but using none of the same content - Post Match Pints, Free Shows & Talking Reds to tell the story. Lovely to watch back, and no overlap apart from maybe one Neil Docking part during the Man City pink haha.

Is that when Gibbo called him the most electrifying man in sports entertainment?

[Hij]

Lizzi has done a brilliant job. Four parts i think!

If you enjoyed that, have a watch of How The League Was Won - it's a video version, but using none of the same content - Post Match Pints, Free Shows & Talking Reds to tell the story. Lovely to watch back, and no overlap apart from maybe one Neil Docking part during the Man City pink haha.

Bloody brilliant, can't wait to work my way through these