Author Topic: Chasing the Title  (Read 1399603 times)

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5920 on: February 21, 2019, 09:02:52 pm »
We've only won there twice in the last 10 years, and only 5 times in the last 19. We have a terrible record there. However ini 90% of those years, they've been the better side undoubtedly.

5 in 19 doesn’t sound ‘that’ bad. 6 in 20 would sound a lot better though!

Offline reddebs

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5921 on: February 21, 2019, 09:06:02 pm »
I always think back to Atkinson's reign at the toilet and he had this weird mantra that he (they) needed to beat us if they wanted to win the league.

It didn't work because winning the league is more than just beating your immediate rivals or those at the top.

Didn't the tramp become a legend by beating all the fodder to win those 13 titles?

The result on Sunday will not decide where the premier league trophy ends up in May!

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Offline Stigathedump

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5922 on: February 21, 2019, 09:18:47 pm »
I fu&$ing hate this fixture!! Home or away. 

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5923 on: February 21, 2019, 09:55:06 pm »
I think momentum and physcology of the game are very important and are being dismissed a bit too quickly here.  That's how games can swing on a little moment,  all the momentum can be with one team suddenly and I think it's the same over a longer time frame too.

In my opinion we are stuttering towards the line now whereas city are playing well and are winning wherever and however they need to.  It's fair to say the momentum is with them now and it takes a massive game like the mancs away to try to grab back some of that.  Not just winning,  but absolutely destroying them would be massive for us, as would a loss.  Season defining game? I'd say yes it's pretty close to that.

Oh and I'm far away from the media bullshit you have in the UK so those opinions are my own thank you!

Offline Raid

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5924 on: February 21, 2019, 10:00:56 pm »
This would be a great time to produce a real statement performance. Just before City play a cup final, rather than a league game where they can do something about it.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5925 on: February 21, 2019, 10:32:13 pm »
We need to win simply because we need to maintain our 3 point advantage. Neither the players nor Klopp will get caught up with the occasion, all the history or rivalry. I agree though that the momentum we'd have with a victory would be huge. I personally believe it is a good time to play them, because they've started to believe their own hype now and probably think they will beat us. Both sets of United and City fans are united for this so if anything that should motivate us even more. If our attack turns up we win the game. It's as simple as that for me. Meaning if Mane hasn't left his shooting boots at home again, if Salah can find the space to get shots away and the final ball is even 25% better than Tuesday. Because, I'd be very surprised if our final 3rd play and finishing was as poor as it was against Bayern, regardless of how good Bayern defended.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 10:37:01 pm by Number 7 »
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5926 on: February 21, 2019, 10:36:10 pm »
I think momentum and physcology of the game are very important and are being dismissed a bit too quickly here.  That's how games can swing on a little moment,  all the momentum can be with one team suddenly and I think it's the same over a longer time frame too.

In my opinion we are stuttering towards the line now whereas city are playing well and are winning wherever and however they need to.  It's fair to say the momentum is with them now and it takes a massive game like the mancs away to try to grab back some of that.  Not just winning,  but absolutely destroying them would be massive for us, as would a loss.  Season defining game? I'd say yes it's pretty close to that.

Oh and I'm far away from the media bullshit you have in the UK so those opinions are my own thank you!

Remind me again which team was the last to suffer defeat?
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5927 on: February 21, 2019, 10:48:26 pm »
Most of the analytics projections show us winning the title by a point or two
Our expected points from Sunday in these models is about 1.5 as it’s our hardest remaining fixture
Therefore a draw on Sunday is comeptlely fine
*legs it out of thread* :)

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5928 on: February 21, 2019, 10:52:16 pm »
Question: What do you think of people who say, 'Liverpool have never won the Premier League' and particularly in the context of proving lack of pedigree?
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Offline Armand9

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5929 on: February 21, 2019, 11:04:10 pm »
1. i hate that fucking statement, as tho football didn't exist before they renamed the leagues (and it's a convenient sweeping statement of sorts that totally ignores how we dominated for decades in our pomp)

2. in the 'modern' era, we havent been good enough - we've had (or at least appeared to have had) good enough sides and runs a couple of times but the results table doesn't lie at the end of it all, we've not been good enough in the run-ins of the few times we 'should've' won it, and that's on us and to be honest it doesn't sit well with me cos it was the mental side of the game that imo cost us
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 11:08:40 pm by Armand9 »
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5930 on: February 21, 2019, 11:22:38 pm »
No reason why we shouldn't win at OT. We are comfortably the better team. Their defense is terrible.

I think the defence has improved. Without checking in detail I think they've conceded less than us since Ole took over.

Offline SteveZissou

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5931 on: February 21, 2019, 11:26:16 pm »
1. i hate that fucking statement, as tho football didn't exist before they renamed the leagues (and it's a convenient sweeping statement of sorts that totally ignores how we dominated for decades in our pomp)

2. in the 'modern' era, we havent been good enough - we've had (or at least appeared to have had) good enough sides and runs a couple of times but the results table doesn't lie at the end of it all, we've not been good enough in the run-ins of the few times we 'should've' won it, and that's on us and to be honest it doesn't sit well with me cos it was the mental side of the game that imo cost us

Feel exactly the same.

This is why I was shocked to hear Robbie Fowler being the one saying it on Sky Football this week.
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Offline stevieG786

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5932 on: February 21, 2019, 11:47:41 pm »
PSG smashes them. We will too, can’t wait!

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5933 on: February 22, 2019, 12:01:58 am »
I think momentum and physcology of the game are very important and are being dismissed a bit too quickly here.  That's how games can swing on a little moment,  all the momentum can be with one team suddenly and I think it's the same over a longer time frame too.

In my opinion we are stuttering towards the line now whereas city are playing well and are winning wherever and however they need to.  It's fair to say the momentum is with them now and it takes a massive game like the mancs away to try to grab back some of that.  Not just winning,  but absolutely destroying them would be massive for us, as would a loss.  Season defining game? I'd say yes it's pretty close to that.

Oh and I'm far away from the media bullshit you have in the UK so those opinions are my own thank you!

Based on your theory we should have won in 13/14 after we had beaten City,Arsenal,Spurs and United in our run in.

But we all know that wasn't the case.

And based on that theory we should have beaten City at the Etihad as they had lost twice in recent weeks when we played them where as we were on a 7,8 match winning run.

Momentum doesn't help you win league titles. United had a 12 point lead in April over City in 2012. They lost the title on the last day of the season with the last kick of the game on goal difference.


Offline Red_Irishman

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5934 on: February 22, 2019, 12:08:56 am »
30 points from our remaining games should see us through.
So you're telling me we could lose to both United and Everton and still do it?

Who'd have thought that Reading this thread. People saying it's shit or bust Sunday, is it fuck. If we lose Sunday it ain't over by a long shot and I'll definitely be having a social media blackout in order to combat the meltdowns that will occur online if said result does happen.

Everyone needs to relax a bit.
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Offline andy07

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5935 on: February 22, 2019, 12:19:30 am »
We wont lose on Sunday. Chill out and relax.  We will be in The Stretford End enjoying The Manc Meltdown at close quarter.  Everything gonna be alright. More worried about Watford on Wednesday.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 12:26:18 am by andy07 »
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5936 on: February 22, 2019, 12:22:44 am »
Ya, should be a pretty tough game to be honest, but rather than weeping tears at the mere possibility of losing i prefer to think of what a rocket up the ass of city and spurs it will be when we win. SLAP. take that. Bitch.

Deep down inside EVERYONE else expects us to lose this. Not going to happen. Its a clean sheet just for starters.
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Offline macmanamanaman

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5937 on: February 22, 2019, 02:35:36 am »
Heart says Win. Head says Lose.

I think we will dominate, huff and puff ineffectually, but then get sucker punched by a set piece or a break away.


OR

It ll be 0-4 in 25 mins and everyone here will forget all their worldly problems.

... except maybe having a nervy last 2 mins where they improbably pull it back to 3-4 but we hold on by the skin of our teeth after a (wrongly) disallowed last penultimate second equalizer
....followed by a last second penalty (wrongly) awarded. But then blasted over by Pogba after a slip....


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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5938 on: February 22, 2019, 03:40:32 am »
Remind me again which team was the last to suffer defeat?

The last team to suffer defeat was city.  However I think they've then won every game since.  We have two draws in the league and another in the champions league since. In the past five and the champions league we're WWDDWD whilst they're WLWWWW which is why I said we're stuttering and they're winning. Being the last team to suffer defeat means nothing.

Offline deano2727

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5939 on: February 22, 2019, 06:12:57 am »
I agree to an extent but honestly if offered I would take a draw.

I don't get anyone saying they would take a draw. We are the better team. Yes, they are in good form, yes they are home, but they were completely nullified by PSG, a team who we are closer to in quality than we are Man Utd. Anything less than a draw would be a bad result.  A draw for me is acceptable, but a win is the result we need. Titles aren't won from acceptable results - thats top 4 stuff. They are won with winning games like this.

I honestly think to win this title, we are going to need to win the next 4 or 5 in a row - up until the Spurs game.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 06:43:59 am by deano2727 »

Offline kloppismydad

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5940 on: February 22, 2019, 06:44:28 am »
PSG have given us a blueprint on how to beat them comprehensively at home.

While I agree it's "only" 3 points, but the psychological impact a win on Sunday will have on us and Man City cannot be ignored.

Come on you mighty Redmen!
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Offline Wingman

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5941 on: February 22, 2019, 07:27:57 am »
They didn't beat us. In 2008/2009 we beat United twice, we beat Chelsea twice, and we drew with Arsenal. Ultimately it meant sweet feck all in the end, as we dropped more points than United despite only having lost twice.

You don't need a statement win against a big rival to win the league. You need to pick up more points than your competitors.



It really is that simple, I don’t know why people need to complicate things. Statement wins and stats really mean bugger all, because after 38 games the only question is who has the most points?

One game at a time, a maximum of 3 points available in each. Let’s twat these flat track bullies on Sunday

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5942 on: February 22, 2019, 08:30:05 am »
They did in a dour game at the start of the season, 2-1 I think. They lost to them at home, for once the phrase bottling it would be justifiable describing that game.

You're right, the game in which Manu battered City in the second half was at the Emptyhad.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5943 on: February 22, 2019, 08:34:26 am »
I don't get anyone saying they would take a draw. We are the better team. Yes, they are in good form, yes they are home, but they were completely nullified by PSG, a team who we are closer to in quality than we are Man Utd. Anything less than a draw would be a bad result.  A draw for me is acceptable, but a win is the result we need. Titles aren't won from acceptable results - thats top 4 stuff. They are won with winning games like this.

I honestly think to win this title, we are going to need to win the next 4 or 5 in a row - up until the Spurs game.

1. We normally have a terrible record at OT. This stretches back decades never mind the Premiership ere.
2. Manu, despite the PSG result, are in good form.
3. This is a derby and form goes out the window.
4. A draw keeps the title challenge in our own hands.

I would take a draw right here, right now, despite being better than them. Too many times I've seen us fucking batter Manu on their own pitch and still end up on the losing side.

Offline latortuga

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5944 on: February 22, 2019, 08:45:40 am »
Heart says Win. Head says Lose.

I think we will dominate, huff and puff ineffectually, but then get sucker punched by a set piece or a break away.


OR

It ll be 0-4 in 25 mins and everyone here will forget all their worldly problems.

... except maybe having a nervy last 2 mins where they improbably pull it back to 3-4 but we hold on by the skin of our teeth after a (wrongly) disallowed last penultimate second equalizer
....followed by a last second penalty (wrongly) awarded. But then blasted over by Pogba after a slip....

This is exactly where I'm at with this game.

The fact is that we aren't a very good away team when we come up against good sides in England or Europe, heck you don't even have to be that good in Europe to beat us.  I've seen a few posters mention how poor Utd's defence is - has improved under OGS - but that isn't going to win us the game, only we can do that by taking advantage and for whatever reason more often than not we haven't shown an ability to do that - think Arsenal and Chelsea for example.

Form wise, the metrics I run on measuring this place Utd at a decent advantage over us which usually doesn't bode well and we all know how bad our record is at OT over the years.

But saying all that, I just have this feeling that we might just nick this one.  Champions find a way and I started believing we were champions months ago so no sense in turning my back on our team now.

 




Offline spider-neil

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5945 on: February 22, 2019, 08:57:00 am »
5 wins at OT in 33 games in all competitions stretching 29 years.

Oof!


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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5946 on: February 22, 2019, 09:30:29 am »
5 wins at OT in 33 games in all competitions stretching 29 years.

Oof!

That is a truly woeful record. Up there with the Ev's record at Anfield that. Not quite as bad, but still pretty shameful.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5947 on: February 22, 2019, 09:36:06 am »
It doesn't tell the whole story though, we've had games where we've done well but decisions have not always gone our way. It is why I'm glad Oliver is refereeing the game, there is a reason the Mancs are so annoyed that its him and not one of the more charitable refs.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5948 on: February 22, 2019, 09:44:09 am »
1. We normally have a terrible record at OT. This stretches back decades never mind the Premiership ere.
2. Manu, despite the PSG result, are in good form.
3. This is a derby and form goes out the window.
4. A draw keeps the title challenge in our own hands.

I would take a draw right here, right now, despite being better than them. Too many times I've seen us fucking batter Manu on their own pitch and still end up on the losing side.

This comes up every time we play them, but it's not a derby.

Liverpool play a derby home and away each year -  it's against Everton. That's it. It's a discussion that's been done to death though, so probably best left there.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5949 on: February 22, 2019, 09:46:51 am »
I'd be more worried if they still had Mourinho - they'll come at us and that'll play right into our hands. A pinged ball up to Salah to isolate Young or Shaw and job's a goodn'.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5950 on: February 22, 2019, 09:52:30 am »
Our form AWAY against the "top" teams hasn't been so great:

18/19
City  - L
Arsenal  - D
Chelsea - D
Spurs -W

17/18
Chelsea - L
United - L
Arsenal - D
Spurs - L
City - L

That's one win in 9. Simply not good enough. Weird because I remember in the earlier part of Klopp's reign we had better results and as we have progressed into a better all-round team the results against the very best haven't shown that. I guess that's the next step.

I would say a draw is acceptable but still would be a bit disappointed if we don't win....because we are just better. And we need to show it.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5951 on: February 22, 2019, 09:59:12 am »
Our form AWAY against the "top" teams hasn't been so great:

18/19
City  - L
Arsenal  - D
Chelsea - D
Spurs -W

17/18
Chelsea - L
United - L
Arsenal - D
Spurs - L
City - L

That's one win in 9. Simply not good enough. Weird because I remember in the earlier part of Klopp's reign we had better results and as we have progressed into a better all-round team the results against the very best haven't shown that. I guess that's the next step.

I would say a draw is acceptable but still would be a bit disappointed if we don't win....because we are just better. And we need to show it.

A win feels like it'd 'level out' our form a bit. And yeah it is weird. I think in his first full season we were 'top' of the big 6 league and, as I recall, undefeated in that. I'd rather be top of the actual league mind.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5952 on: February 22, 2019, 10:05:07 am »
It doesn't tell the whole story though, we've had games where we've done well but decisions have not always gone our way. It is why I'm glad Oliver is refereeing the game, there is a reason the Mancs are so annoyed that its him and not one of the more charitable refs.

That's football though Jill. It's still a God awful record. And to be honest, there are very few of those games we didn't win that we have been robbed in. The majority of the time we've been beaten because we just didn't turn up, basically beaten before we'd even took to the pitch. Or we simply weren't good enough.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5953 on: February 22, 2019, 10:11:16 am »
This comes up every time we play them, but it's not a derby.

Liverpool play a derby home and away each year -  it's against Everton. That's it. It's a discussion that's been done to death though, so probably best left there.
Agree. It's not the derby and it's not comparable.
Dunno how many times it has to be said.
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5954 on: February 22, 2019, 10:14:46 am »
That's football though Jill. It's still a God awful record. And to be honest, there are very few of those games we didn't win that we have been robbed in. The majority of the time we've been beaten because we just didn't turn up, basically beaten before we'd even took to the pitch. Or we simply weren't good enough.

You have to take in account where we were at the time though, it wasn't so long ago that we were almost into administration and at that time United were winning titles on a regular basis, therefore you'd exect them to have the more quality sides. People really forget this when they look at situations like this, when you are that down it takes time to get back to normal. We are now in a much better state to go to these places and put up a challenge.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5955 on: February 22, 2019, 10:21:08 am »
I'd be more worried if they still had Mourinho - they'll come at us and that'll play right into our hands. A pinged ball up to Salah to isolate Young or Shaw and job's a goodn'.

I was thinking the same. The puppet has talked himself into a way of playing - "this is the old Man Utd", "we play the Man Utd way" etc. The first goal in this will be so important, if we get it then they're going to have to throw caution to the wind and go for it which means, if we keep our heads, then there's every chance of killing them on the break.

I really wish we had Gomez available for this because calmness at the back will be what wins this. No doubt they'll have us under pressure for a sustained period of time and that's where we tend to crack and make a mistake.

Need a big performance from the midfield too. Hopefully Hendo has another one in him like the other night.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5956 on: February 22, 2019, 10:21:11 am »
You have to take in account where we were at the time though, it wasn't so long ago that we were almost into administration and at that time United were winning titles on a regular basis, therefore you'd exect them to have the more quality sides. People really forget this when they look at situations like this, when you are that down it takes time to get back to normal. We are now in a much better state to go to these places and put up a challenge.

 I've already said we were beaten a lot of those times because we simply weren't good enough. Nonetheless, it's still a terrible record. There is no disputing that.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5957 on: February 22, 2019, 10:34:26 am »
I've already said we were beaten a lot of those times because we simply weren't good enough. Nonetheless, it's still a terrible record. There is no disputing that.

When a team is winning titles in the way United were then most other teams records at OT will be really horrible. Most title wins are won by dominating your home games, like we're doing at the moment. That's the point I'm trying to make. We have a team now who can go there and seriously challenge it will still be tough though. But in all those other years those United teams because they were winning titles had an huge belief in the fact that they could turn around any game. That's what you get when you win titles and that's the level we need to try and get too.
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Offline chiplege

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5958 on: February 22, 2019, 12:52:56 pm »
Last season we were good against the top sides away, by pushing them back with our pressing.  I'd like to see us play like that here on in

This is exactly where I'm at with this game.

The fact is that we aren't a very good away team when we come up against good sides in England or Europe, heck you don't even have to be that good in Europe to beat us.  I've seen a few posters mention how poor Utd's defence is - has improved under OGS - but that isn't going to win us the game, only we can do that by taking advantage and for whatever reason more often than not we haven't shown an ability to do that - think Arsenal and Chelsea for example.

Form wise, the metrics I run on measuring this place Utd at a decent advantage over us which usually doesn't bode well and we all know how bad our record is at OT over the years.

But saying all that, I just have this feeling that we might just nick this one.  Champions find a way and I started believing we were champions months ago so no sense in turning my back on our team now.

 





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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #5959 on: February 22, 2019, 01:01:05 pm »
1. We normally have a terrible record at OT. This stretches back decades never mind the Premiership ere.
2. Manu, despite the PSG result, are in good form.
3. This is a derby and form goes out the window.
4. A draw keeps the title challenge in our own hands.

I would take a draw right here, right now, despite being better than them. Too many times I've seen us fucking batter Manu on their own pitch and still end up on the losing side.

Top 4 mentality that.

You think City fans would go to OT ready to snap your arm off for a draw? Would they f*ck! And thats what we are up against.

As I said, these are the games that make title winners. It is only 3 points, but at the same time, we all know mentally its a lot more than that.