Topic: Never mind 'Stop the Boats' - STOP THE TORIES

[PaulF]

Yep. The government even ignored it's own 2016 Cygnus research report into what would happen if a pandemic hit the country, the report argued we have to have a emergency supply for the reasons the Torys now use as a excuse, the Torys argue there was a world shortage of PPE, the governments Cygnus report actually warned them this would happen.  if a Pandemic hits the world then every country will be trying to buy PPE so it will be too late to get PPE. we have to keep a emergancy stock. as you say the government chopped the emergency supplu Labour left. think it by a third. all to save money. Tory austerity cost us far more as usual.

Does feel an easy stick for labour to beat the conservatives with.

[Nobby Reserve]

Paying Deloitte staff £thousands per day to be 'consultants' was obscene. How were employees of an a ccounting firm experts of pandameic track and trace?

There's got a be a king-sized rat in that arrangement.

Figures released last week showed the contact tracing programme currently employs around 2,300 management consultants on average pay of £7,000 each day.

The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) has spent more than £375m on private consultancy services for Test and Trace since the start of the pandemic — the equivalent of £163,000 per consultant.

However, Harding said the figure was now likely to be much closer to £1,000 a day per consultant.

https://www.cityam.com/dido-harding-defends-1000-a-day-consultants-for-test-and-trace/



Edit - The brilliant Open Democracy sniff the same rat...  https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/deloittes-test-and-trace-bonanza-this-is-how-much-the-british-public-has-paid-them-so-far/

[rob1966]

Don't like to ever defend that lot but can't help myself because the £30bn figure is misleading. The vast majority of that cost was spent on testing.

The app was still stupidly expensive but it was in the order of millions, not billions.

That's even worse to me, how was £billions spent on testing and then it never even fucking worked properly?

[rob1966]

Yep. The government even ignored it's own 2016 Cygnus research report into what would happen if a pandemic hit the country, the report argued we have to have a emergency supply for the reasons the Torys now use as a excuse, the Torys argue there was a world shortage of PPE, the governments Cygnus report actually warned them this would happen.  if a Pandemic hits the world then every country will be trying to buy PPE so it will be too late to get PPE. we have to keep a emergancy stock. as you say the government chopped the emergency supplu Labour left. think it by a third. all to save money. Tory austerity cost us far more as usual.

I remember arguing with people about this, them harking on about the cost of having PPE stockpiled and it going out of date etc. It was obvious, you stockpile, then you draw from that pile for day to day use, but you then re-order and replenish, so that you are rotating the dates, always have the PPE available and then when the pandemic hit, which the scientists knew it would hence them starting the groundwork for the vaccines years ago, you have enough PPE to go around and not end up flying RAF cargo planes half way around the world to buy shite, and then end up flogging it for £3 on Ebay................

[Elmo!]

That's even worse to me, how was £billions spent on testing and then it never even fucking worked properly?

I don't quite follow, which bit of the testing didn't work properly?

[oldfordie]

I remember arguing with people about this, them harking on about the cost of having PPE stockpiled and it going out of date etc. It was obvious, you stockpile, then you draw from that pile for day to day use, but you then re-order and replenish, so that you are rotating the dates, always have the PPE available and then when the pandemic hit, which the scientists knew it would hence them starting the groundwork for the vaccines years ago, you have enough PPE to go around and not end up flying RAF cargo planes half way around the world to buy shite, and then end up flogging it for £3 on Ebay................

Yeah, it's not hard to work out how to keep a constant fresh supply of PPE. just use say a third of the oldest stored PPE every year which would be well in date and replenish the stock with fresh PPE.
There is no excuse for what's happened, and it annoys me when people argue it's alright saying this in hindsight which isn't true, we were saying this at the time as it was easy to solve the problem.
Same with how the government ignored registered UK PPE, how could that possibly have happened, we were in a lock down but nobody was asking them to go around banging on doors, just had to pick up a phone and ring, set up a hotline and advertise it on tv if were really struggling, nope, the Tory MPs decided to award those contracts to m8s instead.

[stewil007]

Paying Deloitte staff £thousands per day to be 'consultants' was obscene. How were employees of an a ccounting firm experts of pandameic track and trace?

There's got a be a king-sized rat in that arrangement.

https://www.cityam.com/dido-harding-defends-1000-a-day-consultants-for-test-and-trace/



Edit - The brilliant Open Democracy sniff the same rat...  https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/deloittes-test-and-trace-bonanza-this-is-how-much-the-british-public-has-paid-them-so-far/

I was working on a commission a few years back and it was either KPMG or Deloittes were bought in to do some consultancy work, their team consisted of a Director and 5 or 6 graduates - the director would command £1500+ a day and the graduates £1000 a day.  After their commission finished they produced a report of about 50 pages of stating the bleeding obvious.

In comparison, our consultancy team were charging about £400 a day and actually got our hands dirty - did the hard yards then delivered on it. 

The difference in approach was stark, but those figures above dont surprise me.

[So… Howard Philips]

I remember arguing with people about this, them harking on about the cost of having PPE stockpiled and it going out of date etc. It was obvious, you stockpile, then you draw from that pile for day to day use, but you then re-order and replenish, so that you are rotating the dates, always have the PPE available and then when the pandemic hit, which the scientists knew it would hence them starting the groundwork for the vaccines years ago, you have enough PPE to go around and not end up flying RAF cargo planes half way around the world to buy shite, and then end up flogging it for £3 on Ebay................

And isn’t that what supermarkets have done on a daily basis for a century?

The problem with the public sector, local or national, is p9litical involvement.

[oldfordie]

I thought the biggest problem for the majority of people was buying food and the people who stepped up to the plate to solve the problem are the big supermarkets who did a incredible job in such a short time, they deserve the praise not the government, we did go through a period when it was impossible to get a food delivery as all the delivery slots were booked up, people on here were giving each other advice on the best times to book. the government brought in all those isolation restrictions but never came up with any practicable help for people with no relatives to help them, I would have been in sh,, street if my kids hadn't dropped food off at my doorstep when they went out for some shopping, it was a unprecedented National emergency early on so I was hoping the government might bring in the army to work with the supermarkets, nope, that never crossed their mind.

[PaulF]

I was working on a commission a few years back and it was either KPMG or Deloittes were bought in to do some consultancy work, their team consisted of a Director and 5 or 6 graduates - the director would command £1500+ a day and the graduates £1000 a day.  After their commission finished they produced a report of about 50 pages of stating the bleeding obvious.

In comparison, our consultancy team were charging about £400 a day and actually got our hands dirty - did the hard yards then delivered on it. 

The difference in approach was stark, but those figures above dont surprise me.

I sometimes feel like I really am going the wrong way about earning money .
I'm quite happy with a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. But sometimes I think I should just dream up numbers and try and charge that.

[reddebs]

I thought the biggest problem for the majority of people was buying food and the people who stepped up to the plate to solve the problem are the big supermarkets who did a incredible job in such a short time, they deserve the praise not the government, we did go through a period when it was impossible to get a food delivery as all the delivery slots were booked up, people on here were giving each other advice on the best times to book. the government brought in all those isolation restrictions but never came up with any practicable help for people with no relatives to help them, I would have been in sh,, street if my kids hadn't dropped food off at my doorstep when they went out for some shopping, it was a unprecedented National emergency early on so I was hoping the government might bring in the army to work with the supermarkets, nope, that never crossed their mind.

Don't be praising the supermarkets for their effort as it was the workers who took the brunt of that help not the companies or shareholders.

The 10-15% discounts that NHS, teachers and key workers were being given came from a reduction of the same percentage to their own staff discounts scheme.

Those overworked, abused staff were the ones making it possible for the other overworked staff to benefit.

[redbyrdz]

What an absolute mess we're in as a country after the last 12yrs.

Ambulances queuing outside hospitals due to a lack of beds that are occupied by patients that should or could be at home with additional support.

Up to 3000 Met Police Officers unable to be fully deployed due to health issues or restrictive duties as they can't be trusted to speak to the public.

Universities, schools, trains and postal service's disrupted due to strike action voted for due to lack of funding and piss poor pay deals for a decade.

Thousands of tenanted properties in the private and social housing sector unfit for habitation due to lack of funding or unwillingness to maintain them properly.

And we're one of the wealthiest countries on the planet.

What a fucking mess 😡

Agreed. The country is absolutely fucked. But hey, "it is what it is"  and "must get on with it". And then vote tory again...

[oldfordie]

Don't be praising the supermarkets for their effort as it was the workers who took the brunt of that help not the companies or shareholders.

The 10-15% discounts that NHS, teachers and key workers were being given came from a reduction of the same percentage to their own staff discounts scheme.

Those overworked, abused staff were the ones making it possible for the other overworked staff to benefit.

Yeah the workers do deserve praise but were discussing competency, the supermarkets got their act together very quickly, booking slots became easy to book, they could of come up with some bad ideas but they came up with efficiant solutions that helped millions, comparing all this to the governments response, they did sod all to help people get food. they imposed lockdowns but ignored the serious problems those lock downs brought.

[rob1966]

And isn’t that what supermarkets have done on a daily basis for a century?

The problem with the public sector, local or national, is p9litical involvement.

Yep, both the shops themselves (always look at the back of the shelf for the freshest stuff) and the RDCs. I know, as I've had first hand experience, that places like Sainsburys has a strict minimum 6 months sell by date rule when delivering, or they will refuse the pallet - bit fucking stupid on Christmas chocolate tree decorations mind.........

Don't be praising the supermarkets for their effort as it was the workers who took the brunt of that help not the companies or shareholders.

The 10-15% discounts that NHS, teachers and key workers were being given came from a reduction of the same percentage to their own staff discounts scheme.

Those overworked, abused staff were the ones making it possible for the other overworked staff to benefit.

Yeah, it was the store workers, who dealt with untold shit from the general public, the RDC staff and soft twats like us HGV drivers, who were once "heroes" but are now c*nts again who worked right through the pandemic, initially without a shred of PPE. Couldn't even get handwash as every c*nt had bought it all. I'm pretty certain I caught covid in the second week of lockdown at work.

[Red Beret]

Saw a front page in Tesco before suggesting many Tory MPs may stand down at the next election. Guessing they can't be arsed fighting a fight they think they can't win.

[reddebs]

Agreed. The country is absolutely fucked. But hey, "it is what it is"  and "must get on with it". And then vote tory again...

Honestly I'm so sick of hearing about investigations into failings of public services where "lessons will be learned" but they never are.

Another one here in Wales with the murder of a 5yr old last year by his mother, her partner and a 14yr old lad that lived with them.

Lack of information sharing, nobody joining the dots, doctors, social services, police and teachers.  It fucks me off again that there's no accountability.

Another one where a 70 odd year old woman murdered by her carer.  A man who'd never worked in a care environment and Devon & Cornwall police failed to send information in a DBS check confirming he had previous convictions for assault, GBH and ABH.

FFS nobody is safe if those that are meant to protect us fail so fucking often.

[reddebs]

Yeah the workers do deserve praise but were discussing competency, the supermarkets got their act together very quickly, booking slots became easy to book, they could of come up with some bad ideas but they came up with efficiant solutions that helped millions, comparing all this to the governments response, they did sod all to help people get food. they imposed lockdowns but ignored the serious problems those lock downs brought.

The government were/are never going to make practical arrangements for the general public to have a stress free life mate. 

We're an after thought, an inconvenience and too stupid to place blame at their feet.

[reddebs]

Yep, both the shops themselves (always look at the back of the shelf for the freshest stuff) and the RDCs. I know, as I've had first hand experience, that places like Sainsburys has a strict minimum 6 months sell by date rule when delivering, or they will refuse the pallet - bit fucking stupid on Christmas chocolate tree decorations mind.........

Yeah, it was the store workers, who dealt with untold shit from the general public, the RDC staff and soft twats like us HGV drivers, who were once "heroes" but are now c*nts again who worked right through the pandemic, initially without a shred of PPE. Couldn't even get handwash as every c*nt had bought it all. I'm pretty certain I caught covid in the second week of lockdown at work.

Even we (hairdressers) do that with stock, it's hardly rocket science unless you're a cabinet minister.

It was always going to happen mate.  I remember somebody on here, possibly you, saying that the country relied on the goodwill and public duty of those in the lowest paid jobs to keep the country functioning during covid.  It was never down to the governments policies etc.

[TSC]

Yep. The government even ignored it's own 2016 Cygnus research report into what would happen if a pandemic hit the country, the report argued we have to have a emergency supply for the reasons the Torys now use as a excuse, the Torys argue there was a world shortage of PPE, the governments Cygnus report actually warned them this would happen.  if a Pandemic hits the world then every country will be trying to buy PPE so it will be too late to get PPE. we have to keep a emergancy stock. as you say the government chopped the emergency supplu Labour left. think it by a third. all to save money. Tory austerity cost us far more as usual.

Back in 2005/6 the NHS was prepared for a pandemic flu.  Came under my remit for an NHS Trust. Stockpiled drugs and PPE.  Said flu never landed in the end but the prep was done and sufficiently budgeted for.

Big difference back then of course was a Labour administration.

[oldfordie]

Back in 2005/6 the NHS was prepared for a pandemic flu.  Came under my remit for an NHS Trust. Stockpiled drugs and PPE.  Said flu never landed in the end but the prep was done and sufficiently budgeted for.

Big difference back then of course was a Labour administration.

Bill Gates was warning against the Torys sort of attitude long before Covid hit, "The cost of being prepared for a pandemic will be peanuts compared to the cost of not being prepared"

[reddebs]

Omg now we've got primary age kids dying from Strep A. 

I thought scarlet fever had disappeared decades ago 😯

[Juan Kerr]

Yep, both the shops themselves (always look at the back of the shelf for the freshest stuff) and the RDCs. I know, as I've had first hand experience, that places like Sainsburys has a strict minimum 6 months sell by date rule when delivering, or they will refuse the pallet - bit fucking stupid on Christmas chocolate tree decorations mind.........

Yeah, it was the store workers, who dealt with untold shit from the general public, the RDC staff and soft twats like us HGV drivers, who were once "heroes" but are now c*nts again who worked right through the pandemic, initially without a shred of PPE. Couldn't even get handwash as every c*nt had bought it all. I'm pretty certain I caught covid in the second week of lockdown at work.

Youve always been that tho specially on motorways   

[west_london_red]

Omg now we've got primary age kids dying from Strep A. 

I thought scarlet fever had disappeared decades ago 😯

I live around the corner from the school in question, it’s literally about 2 mins walk away although my kids don’t go there (we’re not Christians), but it’s still bloody scary as my daughter is the same age as the kid who sadly passed away. Apparently they are giving all the kids in year 1 & 2 of the school in question antibiotics just to be on the safe side, hopefully there’s not too many idiots who have ‘done their own research’.

[west_london_red]

FML that Ben Habib’s voice is grating, never mind the bollocks he’s actually spouting

[killer-heels]

Burnham has had his past issues that I have had huge problems with, but bloody hell he has absolutely nailed the communication part of the role.

[reddebs]

I live around the corner from the school in question, it’s literally about 2 mins walk away although my kids don’t go there (we’re not Christians), but it’s still bloody scary as my daughter is the same age as the kid who sadly passed away. Apparently they are giving all the kids in year 1 & 2 of the school in question antibiotics just to be on the safe side, hopefully there’s not too many idiots who have ‘done their own research’.

I remember my mum telling me about when she had scarlet fever as a kid and she was in solitary confinement for 2wks it was considered that contagious.

Her mum would bring her meals on a tray and leave it on the floor outside her room. 

No contact with anyone for 2wks at 10yrs old must be tough but then life in the 30's was tough.

[west_london_red]

I remember my mum telling me about when she had scarlet fever as a kid and she was in solitary confinement for 2wks it was considered that contagious.

Her mum would bring her meals on a tray and leave it on the floor outside her room. 

No contact with anyone for 2wks at 10yrs old must be tough but then life in the 30's was tough.

Honestly the only time I’ve ever heard of scarlet fever is in reference to WW2 and outbreaks in concentration camps, very scary it’s just popped up around the corner.

[reddebs]

Honestly the only time I’ve ever heard of scarlet fever is in reference to WW2 and outbreaks in concentration camps, very scary it’s just popped up around the corner.

I can imagine mate, like I said I thought it had been eradicated decades ago.

I'm surprised they aren't taking it more seriously though.

[spen71]

My dads sister died as a child of scarlet fever

[stewil007]

I sometimes feel like I really am going the wrong way about earning money .
I'm quite happy with a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. But sometimes I think I should just dream up numbers and try and charge that.

I should say that we were all salaried and we didn't see the £400 a day.

Talking to the KPMG/Deloittes lot, they were salaried too, graduates were on a good starting wage, no doubt the director was earning a small fortune.  But these companies know how to profit from consulting.

And the bill always went (ultimately) to the tax payer

[west_london_red]

I can imagine mate, like I said I thought it had been eradicated decades ago.

I'm surprised they aren't taking it more seriously though.

My mum just dropped off my son at nursery, was only about 5 kids there instead of the usual 20ish

[PaulF]

I should say that we were all salaried and we didn't see the £400 a day.

Talking to the KPMG/Deloittes lot, they were salaried too, graduates were on a good starting wage, no doubt the director was earning a small fortune.  But these companies know how to profit from consulting.

And the bill always went (ultimately) to the tax payer

Yeah. Wasn't implying you were 😃.
Just insane that shareholders are creaming off most of that outrageous rate.

[Millie]

I had scarlet fever as a very small child - I nearly died apparently.  I also had measles as a baby.  I'm surprised I'm still here!

[RJH]

Yeah. Wasn't implying you were .
Just insane that shareholders are creaming off most of that outrageous rate.

Would it make you feel better to know that they aren't shareholders, but partners?

Limited Liability Partnerships (actually a Labour invention) mean the partners of these companies get the liability protections of a company, but the tax advantages of a partnership.

[Nobby Reserve]

Would it make you feel better to know that they aren't shareholders, but partners?

Limited Liability Partnerships (actually a Labour invention) mean the partners of these companies get the liability protections of a company, but the tax advantages of a partnership.

New Labour kow-towing to big business against the wider societal interest? Surely not...

[ianburns252]

New Labour kow-towing to big business against the wider societal interest? Surely not...

I'd argue that what it does do is create more transparency - having to file with Companies House who the members are, actually producing accounts etc rather than traditional partnerships which have no public record. Also means that those of a certain size or nature would need auditing.

Yes, it has the liability protection, but it isn't all in the entities favour.

[TSC]

I should say that we were all salaried and we didn't see the £400 a day.

Talking to the KPMG/Deloittes lot, they were salaried too, graduates were on a good starting wage, no doubt the director was earning a small fortune.  But these companies know how to profit from consulting.

And the bill always went (ultimately) to the tax payer

Typical rate card for a client engagement lists day/hourly costs for Partner, Director, Senior Consultant, Consultant, Associate and estimated time spent on delivery by all.  In reality of course a team full of graduates/associates steam in on day one to do a lot if not most of the work, while the client rate card references the more senior grades spending x amount of time on delivery.

[Nobby Reserve]

I'd argue that what it does do is create more transparency - having to file with Companies House who the members are, actually producing accounts etc rather than traditional partnerships which have no public record. Also means that those of a certain size or nature would need auditing.

Yes, it has the liability protection, but it isn't all in the entities favour.

The 'big 4' accountancy firms lobbies Labour hard to get LLP's brought in. Much of their reasoning was to protect themselves from financial penalities arising from their nefarious activity around auditing (eg, they are sued, or they are prosecuted and heavily fined)

LLP legislation could have been set up to make them taxed similar to limited liability companies, but they got to continue their tax advnatages of being self-employed. There were so many loopholes built into the legislation that even non-doms could be partners (or even those not even bothering with non-dom status and living in tax havens). It's been open to abuse for tax-dodging. There are over 50,000 LLP's registered in the UK, of which only around 4,000 are accoutnants or lawyers, which the system was designed for.

 

[Nobby Reserve]

Typical rate card for a client engagement lists day/hourly costs for Partner, Director, Senior Consultant, Consultant, Associate and estimated time spent on delivery by all.  In reality of course a team full of graduates/associates steam in on day one to do a lot if not most of the work, while the client rate card references the more senior grades spending x amount of time on delivery.

One company (big American multinational) I worked for some years ago used that system for some clients. I was an account manager witha portfolio of clients and they charged £145/hour for my services. I was paid about £25/hour.

It's an absolute racket.

[reddebs]

My mum just dropped off my son at nursery, was only about 5 kids there instead of the usual 20ish

Wow.  Well I guess it's best to be safe than sorry mate.