Topic: Does alien life exist?

[electricghost]

There's probably more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the existence of aliens.

How would we tell the difference ?

[Danny Boys Dad]

How would we tell the difference ?

God has a big white beard and sits on a cloud. Aliens have lots of tentacles and plan world domination using fiendish robots.

[Finn Solomon]

Given I used entropy as my reasoning, I can hardly disagree with the possibility

I like the fact that thermodynamics assures us that given infinite space, there is a giant pink dodo with a laser cannon out there.

Or a huge space-turtle with four elephants and an entire world on its shell.

[Corkboy]

There's probably more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the existence of aliens.

The question was "alien life". If you can find me one piece of evidence for the existence of a god on the same level as the Murchison Meteorite, I would be most obliged.

[Finn Solomon]

Miracles, voices and the like.

Have there been any modern day miracles?

Bar Istanbul, of course.

[SP]

Miracles, voices and the like.

A lot more convincing than the few dozen hillbillies who claim to have been kidnapped by aliens.

That's a completely different argument.

It is highly likely that there is life elsewhere in the universe.

It is highly improbable that we have been visited by aliens. Space is just so big, and the light speed speed limit really limits travel options.

[Slave]

Funny, I just started watching this last night, but fell asleep halfway through as it was a little dull.

Don't know what to make of it really. It was held in 2001, so it might be old news to some of you. I'd never heard of it before though.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7vyVe-6YdUk?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_GB" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/7vyVe-6YdUk?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_GB</a>

[The Gulleysucker]

Leaving aside the Murchison rock for a sec, it is possible, however unlikely, that we are the first and as yet only example of life.

Yep, that's possible to.

If we consider the existence of life as a matter of probabilities across a finite but staggering amount of possibilities, we really need a few more samples either on other planets or aliens visiting us before we jump to the adamant conclusion that there actually is or must be life out there. While it's likely, it's not definite until we have the evidence.

So we hit the problem of detecting such life given not only the timespans of biological species existence, but the timespans of such life being 'noisy' in a radio sense such that we could pick their signals up if we were listening in the right part of the sky. Here on Earth, we only started being noisy about 100 years ago, and with the widespread increasing adoption of fibre optics to replace what would traditional be transmitted by high power radio waves, we will probably go quiet in another 100 years as far as a distant observer is concerned. Imagine that reversed. Taken with the sheer distances involved and the times it would take such signals to hit a remote planet that had reached a development or even bothered to keep such technology, the difficulties of ever proving this within the small time slot are thus considerable. The distances involved in relation to our time are just mind boggling.

Of course, artifacts falling from the sky that could be recognisable as alien would help, but again the probability of them surviving atmospheric entry in such a condition to enable them to be recognised for what they are and without any doubt as such, is pretty small. What looks like a stoney meteorite to us may be a specially constructed sacred worship object to aliens for example. How would we know?

Now we obviously can never rule the possibility of alien life out or it would be foolish to do so, but whether our descendants or even our planet will still be in existence if and when the faint signal finally comes through or their gypsy ship passes us by is another matter.

It's all a nice dream, a wish, perhaps powered by an innate desire to not be alone, and that would answer some questions but that also drives some pretty spectacular science.

[rednich85]

Can't say 'yes definately' because I havent seen one.

Almost definately for me

[caspertheghost]

Yes undoubtedly it does exist.

Corkboy being an example 

[electricghost]

Miracles, voices and the like.

Aliens might be responsible for that.

[CHOPPER]

Does it exist or more to the point, has it existed yet.

The earths life span relative to the rest of the cosmos is like comparing a second within a decade of time. Life on other planets could of existed and become now extinct and we are now left all on our own, or, that life is about to sprout up right across the cosmos but our planet will have died and we as a race would of missed the answer to the question of life on other planets.

My answer to the question is a definite yes, I believe there is, will or has been life on other planets; I just don't know if we'll be in the same time frame to ever find out.


Mongo just pawn in game of life..........

[Danny Boys Dad]

The question was "alien life". If you can find me one piece of evidence for the existence of a god on the same level as the Murchison Meteorite, I would be most obliged.

I'd never heard of the Murchison Meteorite before, but at first glance it seems to be very slim evidence for the existence of alien life, like saying that the discovery of a stone means that somewhere a castle exists. There's a long way to go from amino acid to alien life.

There are examples throughout history of miracles etc that have been investigated and found to have no apparent cause other than the actions of a 'God'. I can't list them off the top of my head because to be honest I don't take that great an interest in it but I know that they're written down somewhere.

Strange that you're happy to accept the existence of one thing based on supposition and probability and yet strongly deny another when the 'evidence' would indicate otherwise.

[Corkboy]

I'd never heard of the Murchison Meteorite before, but at first glance it seems to be very slim evidence for the existence of alien life, like saying that the discovery of a stone means that somewhere a castle exists. There's a long way to go from amino acid to alien life.

The amino acids are evidence of alien life. I didn't say it had to be complicated or sentient. I see your point about more complex life forms but surely we can say the building blocks are there? By the way, your castle analogy falls a little short as you would still need someone to build the castle. Oh wait....

There are examples throughout history of miracles etc that have been investigated and found to have no apparent cause other than the actions of a 'God'. I can't list them off the top of my head because to be honest I don't take that great an interest in it but I know that they're written down somewhere.

Strange that you're happy to accept the existence of one thing based on supposition and probability and yet strongly deny another when the 'evidence' would indicate otherwise.

The evidence doesn't indicate otherwise. The only evidence you've offered for a god is a non specific list of events for which there was no apparent explanation which, with respect, is shitty enough evidence.

Incidentally, could you point out where in this thread I have "accepted" or "denied" anything?

[Danny Boys Dad]

Incidentally, could you point out where in this thread I have "accepted" or "denied" anything?

Wasn't the OP 'acceptance' of the existence of alien life, based on the Murchison thingy? That's how I read it anyway.

You haven't denied the existence of God in this thread but I think you may have hinted at it once or twice in other threads 

[Corkboy]

Wasn't the OP 'acceptance' of the existence of alien life, based on the Murchison thingy? That's how I read it anyway.

You haven't denied the existence of God in this thread but I think you may have hinted at it once or twice in other threads 

Cross thread violation. 9 points deduction for you, my boy.

You're right, I think the Murchison thing is a huge step but then I'm not a biologist so maybe someone else can say whether amino acids can fairly be called "life".

[felix.]

Cross thread violation. 9 points deduction for you, my boy.

You're right, I think the Murchison thing is a huge step but then I'm not a biologist so maybe someone else can say whether amino acids can fairly be called "life".

i'm a biologist, and no they can't.

voted for almost certainly btw.

[Corkboy]

i'm a biologist, and no they can't.

So what's the minimum for life?

[felix.]

but, considering the murchison is but a fragment of data, just one of a billion billion comets cruising through space, it would be wild to suggest there's no alien life. there's more amino acids where those came from. what will become of them? something, and it will be alive. for these amino acids to become something more complex there has to be a DNA or RNA strand that will dictate the way the amino acids bind into a protein. they DNA/RNA is probably there. the same organic chemicals that bulid amino acids build the nucleotides of DNA/RNA. once protein synthesis starts it can be considered 'alive' imo. it's just a matter of time.

the other matter is the matter of space. because of the vastness of space, i think any conformation of ET life is unlikely in my lifetime. our neighbour galaxy andromeda, is more than 2 million light years away. even if living organisms have been thriving somewhere in andromeda for 1.9 million years, we still won't have a clue. i'm positive there are civilizations just like ours somewhere in a galaxy far far away, the problem is whenever we look at them we're looking millions of years into the past. maybe this is a good thing, because if we knew about each other we'd probably be killing each other.

[kesey]

Is that because of the Murchison Meteorite?

What's that?   

[Dr. Beaker]

There's probably more evidence for the existence of God than there is for the existence of aliens.

Is there any evidence that there is any difference.

[Buzz Killington]

Does the Physical World exist?

[kesey]

I find it funny the way a lot people say ' out there '. Who's to say that they aren't here, have been or having as whacky as it may seem , even seeded the human race.  Ancient Astronuats and all that. Aren't there even references to these entities in the bible, in ancient art and other texts?

[kesey]

Does the Physical World exist?

Apparantly not.

[PhilV]

I voted almost certainly - why?

because in the universe, a limitless place there has to be another planet with life, maybe not as we know it, maybe not carbon based lifeforms that bread oxygen etc but life.

[Dr. Beaker]

So what's the minimum for life?

About ten years probably, with good behaviour.

[kesey]

And again!

I find it funny the way a lot people say ' out there '. Who's to say that they aren't here, have been or having as whacky as it may seem , even seeded the human race.  Ancient Astronuats and all that. Aren't there even references to these entities in the bible, in ancient art and other texts?

[felix.]

So what's the minimum for life?

well, by definition, a living organism has to be able to perform basic metabolic functions, to maintain a state of homeostasis (maintaining internal parameters within relatively small boundaries), to grow, and to reproduce.

but viruses, for example, cannot grow nor reproduce, at least not on their own. viruses inject their own DNA or RNA into the cell of a host, take over their DNA/RNA replicating mechanisms, and produce lots of virus DNA/RNA which are then packed into little virus bodies. so are they not alive?

i can't answer your question directly, but let me put it this way. if you had a bucket full of amino acids, and dropped in a strand of DNA from an amoeba and the RNA's that are needed to translate from DNA to protein (ribosomes), you'd have a couple of amoebas in no time. the question is where does this translating mechanism, or ribosome, come from. this is basically a couple of RNA strands (tRNA, mRNA, rRNA) that are basically of the same structure, with subtle differences that allow them to perform various tasks. the theory says that the first ones synthesized over time, the nucleotides binding randomly until everything clicked into place. basically by trial and error. so i guess that's going on somewhere else, or has already gone on. from then on the DNA will evolve until it gets to the point where a strand of DNA codes for all the proteins necessary to build a living organism, and then it can live and reproduce.

if the amino acids are the building blocks of life, then DNA and RNA are the engineers/builders. there's along way to go from amino acids to life.

[SP]

I find it funny the way a lot people say ' out there '. Who's to say that they aren't here, have been or having as whacky as it may seem , even seeded the human race.  Ancient Astronuats and all that. Aren't there even references to these entities in the bible, in ancient art and other texts?

It sounds dangerously close to the works of convicted fraudster Erich von Däniken.

[RJH]

I find it funny the way a lot people say ' out there '. Who's to say that they aren't here, have been or having as whacky as it may seem , even seeded the human race.  Ancient Astronuats and all that. Aren't there even references to these entities in the bible, in ancient art and other texts?

Well, evolution would counter the idea of aliens "seeding" the human race.
Though there is an argument that life on Earth originated (in some form) from space. But that's completely different from the idea of intelligent alien life, which is what you seem to be talking about.

[Art Vandelay]

Considering the vastness of space, and the vastness of time I think there's a high probability that there is/was/will be other forms of life out there.

However, I think the likelyhood of there being an intelligent alien lifeform that is a)able to communicate, b)close enough to reach, and c)in existance at the exact same time as us is very, very low.

[Sir Harvest Fields]

Considering the vastness of space, and the vastness of time I think there's a high probability that there is/was/will be other forms of life out there.

a)able to communicate

they could. just not in a way we could decipher

[cathy-lfc-taff]

Got to be. The universe is much to big just for us human cretins to be the only occupants.

And what will happen is we'll find it, and then we'll kill it.

[timiano]

There's a chance of life on Mars to be fair, as well as one of Jupiter's moons, Europa.

[pascoli]

Voted "almost certainly"

Basically because, when i was stoned outside my house in Speke the other day, I saw this massive, metal object come in from the left as I was looking, and gradually come lower and lower before appearing to land in some fields just off the hale road.

Apparantly, its quite a common occurence as well. So basically, there must be.




And incidentally, i consider anything non-human to be alien. Spiders are deffo aliens. And a lot fuckin scarier then some green chap with an oversized head asking to be taken to my dealer.

[Barney_Rubble]

There's a chance of life on Mars to be fair

davidbowie@tincan.com

[timiano]

davidbowie@tincan.com

Clear signs of the presence of liquid water (landscape and gypsum), sub surface water and trace of methane do quite possibly point towards archaea. Maybe not intelligent life, but bacteria would be a start.

[Corkboy]

What's that?   

You didn't bother to read the opening post, did you?

[sparkiemark73]

Yes but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it.

[Barney_Rubble]

Only in the movies....