Author Topic: Sunderland  (Read 178972 times)

Offline Phil M

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #720 on: April 3, 2017, 10:33:32 pm »
Moyes will be out of a job soon anyway. Can't see him going down with the ship or them wanting to keep him on.

Kinda funny how many ex-blues he got in.

Pienaar
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All mediocre shite bar Janujaz perhaps who has show glimpses of serious talent.
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Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #721 on: April 3, 2017, 10:43:13 pm »
Agree to disagree on that.  Everton's fall had been harder yes, and it had created some level of animosity and bitterness - but he fanned that into a full blown psychosis.  He fed them the delusion that they were the People's Club and we were all outsiders and got them sucking manc cock imo.  It may have happened anyway but he made it certain.

Up until Moyes, plenty of Everton fans quietly muttered about how the UEFA ban impacted them and what might have been, but they seemed willing enough to accept that years of bad decisions in terms of managers and players had put them into almost permanent relegation crisis.  After Moyes it all became our fault.  That was when they truly became Bitter.

Fair enough!

If you haven't already though I'd definitely encourage you to give that TAW show a listen, they cite a number of pre-Moyes incidents that made the rivalry toxic. The unabashed joy in which our fans celebrated the prospect of Everton getting relegated in 1994, and the rabid fervour of their celebrations in derailing our title bid in 1997. The sheer joy we each got our of each others suffering wasn't there prior to the 90s and was well in place before 'the Moyesiah' rocked up.

Agree though that he fed off it and used it to mask his managerial shortcomings.

Offline Billy The Kid

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #722 on: April 3, 2017, 10:46:43 pm »
Billy, I see you as one of the more intelligent posters on here.

If you threatened a woman in your work (spidermaning aside) would you expect to keep your job?

Assuming it was a legitimate threat, then no, I wouldn't expect to keep my job.

Having viewed the footage and having listened to the tone of the exchange, I'm of the opinion that Moyes wasn't legitimately threatening her

Sure, it was uncalled for. You'd expect someone who's been in the game as long as Moyes has to know the score with reporters

That being said, her laughing at him, coupled with her happily accepting his apology without kicking up a fuss - gives me the impression that:

1. It was a tongue in cheek comment. He wasn't actually threatening to hit her

2. She didn't construe it as a legitimate threat

The people suggesting that Moyes needs to be sacked need to have a word with themselves IMO 
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #723 on: April 3, 2017, 10:50:28 pm »
It was an incredibly stupid thing to say, but I don't think it's as bad as people are making it out to be. It was clearly said in jest. Completely hypothetical, but to put some perspective on it, would people be so quick to call for the sack if it was Klopp that said it? We would be angry and/or ashamed, but I would feel he (and we) would be hard done by if he got sacked.

Give him a fine and tell him he is treading on thin ice.

Say something like that again David, and we'll make you see out your contract.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #724 on: April 3, 2017, 10:50:50 pm »
Fair enough!

If you haven't already though I'd definitely encourage you to give that TAW show a listen, they cite a number of pre-Moyes incidents that made the rivalry toxic. The unabashed joy in which our fans celebrated the prospect of Everton getting relegated in 1994, and the rabid fervour of their celebrations in derailing our title bid in 1997. The sheer joy we each got our of each others suffering wasn't there prior to the 90s and was well in place before 'the Moyesiah' rocked up.

Agree though that he fed off it and used it to mask his managerial shortcomings.

Oh I agree.  That's why I described it as almost single handedly.  Somewhere along the way the banter crossed a line and it became personal; Moyes killed any chance of getting back across that line.  Maybe we did start it back in 1994, but that's not the same thing as making all the shit they've suffered over the past 30 odd years all our fault.  Moyes basically absolved them - and himself, whilst he was there - of any and all responsibility for being shit.
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Offline Billy The Kid

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #725 on: April 3, 2017, 10:57:04 pm »
I wouldn't say he singlehandedly soured the relationship between the respective fan bases but he certainly added a lot of fuel to the fire.

As managers go, there are very few who I dislike more than Moyes

That being said, as someone who detests social media and the over-reactionary culture that it breeds, I'd be inclined to cut him some slack here

Twatter isn't a fucking court of law. It's just mainly dickheads, brain farting their way through life, 150 characters at a time
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Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #726 on: April 3, 2017, 10:58:32 pm »
David Moyes - *Chucks glass - cue screaming* "That lassie got glassed and no c*nt leaves here until we find out what c*nt did it".
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #727 on: April 3, 2017, 11:00:30 pm »
Nothing in it, Just the chosen one being a bit cheeky. When you are as successful as him, you should anticipate some flamboyance and a certain air of confidence that may be misconstrued as arrogance. He may have been guilty of micro managing, even giving advice to a reporter on how to conduct interviews .One look at the premier league table tells you the man is a winner, we dont have enough of those in this country.
« Last Edit: April 3, 2017, 11:02:03 pm by The North Bank »

Offline Billy The Kid

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #728 on: April 3, 2017, 11:07:19 pm »
The guy is a prick in a privileged position acting like a c*nt.

Lets brush it under the carpet.

Suppose Fat Sam should have kept the England job too?

Fat Sam was caught offering advice on how to wrongfully circumvent rules and regulations set by his employers

Moyes was caught making an idle quip. Sure it was foolish, but I wouldn't conflate it with what Sam did

That would be kind of stupid, wouldn't it?
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #729 on: April 3, 2017, 11:14:22 pm »
Reckon he'll be gone by the end of the day, negative publicity around this is going to snowball over the next few hours. Sunderland will be left with no choice.

No. They won't sack him for this. It was uncalled for, inexcusable and stupid. He should get a fine though. Considering that Sunderland had noted fascist Paolo di Canio as manager and kept Adam Johnson on their books until he was found guilty, despite having substantial evidence, which suggested he should have been sacked immediately, they haven't been a paragon for exemplary behaviour in recent years.

Offline ghirl67

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #730 on: April 3, 2017, 11:54:43 pm »
I will just say how glad I am he never became Celtic manager last May.  After Deila, there were a fair amount of our support ready to have Moyes due to the perceived ability to make us stronger defensively.

I detested the notion of him as our manager. Thank eff for Brendan.
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Offline mc_red22

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #731 on: April 3, 2017, 11:59:47 pm »
It wasn't all that long ago that their manager at the time - Martion O'Neill - said how he thinks Sunderland could and should qualify for Europe via the league :D.

They're an absolute shambles of a club from top to bottom. I can't believe the naivety of Moyes to think that shockers like McNair, Love, Djilobodji, Anichebe, Lescott, Oviedo & Gibson would be good enough to keep their sinking ship up.

Offline BEAST

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #732 on: April 4, 2017, 12:37:05 am »
Didn't realize so many people here are fine with misogynistic comments and just label it as harmless banter


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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #733 on: April 4, 2017, 01:12:43 am »
Complaint how? What should she have done in that moment?

Has anyone watched the full press conference? Apparently a few male reporters asked similar questions and weren't threatened to be slapped, is this true?
if she genuinely feel that Moyes threatened to punch her then she should have complained to Moyes' boss or even the police if she fet intimidated by his remark
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #734 on: April 4, 2017, 01:25:25 am »
Well, Sunderland can't say they don't have enough reasons to spank sack him.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #735 on: April 4, 2017, 01:35:25 am »
Meh, watched the video doesn't seem like he's being serious at all. People get offended by any shite now.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #736 on: April 4, 2017, 08:25:42 am »
Meh, watched the video doesn't seem like he's being serious at all. People get offended by any shite now.

Not really offended by it, I don't really get offended by anything. I wouldn't say he should be sacked for it, but you know....it was a bit out of order and it was a bit sexist and a little bit sinister. An off the cuff, sexist comment about slapping a woman even if meant as banter is still sexist.

I think it just emphasises Moyes personality that its not a major surprise, maybe just shows a few more people what some already know that he's a bit of an old school, archaic twat. I'd be pretty astonished if someone like Wenger or Howe said it but Moyes, meh, not so much.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #737 on: April 4, 2017, 08:43:58 am »
Nothing was said at the time, and all of a sudden it comes out weeks after it happened?

Offline Billy The Kid

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #738 on: April 4, 2017, 08:57:27 am »
Meh, watched the video doesn't seem like he's being serious at all. People get offended by any shite now.

 ;)

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #739 on: April 4, 2017, 09:00:12 am »
Storm in a tea cup type stuff from what I can see

Obviously he shouldn't have said it, but having watched the video, and having listened to the tone of the exchange, I wouldn't say it was as sinister or threatening as some people are making out. Sparks was actually laughing - which I don't think she would have done if she felt Moyes was being serious and actually threatening her

He's apologized for it. No more to see here really. People saying he should get the sack? Get a grip FFS

Totally disagree, as a woman who has been on the end of a "slap" from a man.

It may well have been a nervous laugh.

Totally unacceptable from him and he should be sacked. Please don't tell me to "get a grip".  Beating a woman is not, and never has been, a laughing matter.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2017, 09:25:31 am by In Fowler We Trust »
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #740 on: April 4, 2017, 09:09:10 am »
Didn't realize so many people here are fine with misogynistic comments and just label it as harmless banter



Totally agree
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #741 on: April 4, 2017, 09:26:21 am »
Anyone on here who thinks it's acceptable to make jokes and laugh at said jokes about beating women is wrong.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #742 on: April 4, 2017, 09:29:48 am »
Meh, watched the video doesn't seem like he's being serious at all. People get offended by any shite now.

Try being a woman who has been on the receiving end
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #743 on: April 4, 2017, 09:33:02 am »
Feel sorry for Vicky Sparks a bit in all this.

She obviously found it funny at the time, accepted his apology and as far as I can see didn't even make the complaint against him.

She's trying to make it in a tough world and now the focus is on her. She can't come out and tell people to leave Gollum alone or she will be accused of setting women's rights back years.




Offline Billy The Kid

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #744 on: April 4, 2017, 09:43:03 am »
Totally disagree, as a woman who has been on the end of a "slap" from a man.

It may well have been a nervous laugh.

Totally unacceptable from him and he should be sacked.

I'm sorry to hear you've been on the receiving end of physical abuse. Whoever did that to you is a lowlife piece of shit IMO. That being said, and with all due respect, I still don't see why that should give your adjudication any extra validity or moral authority. We're not talking about a case of actual physical abuse here. He didn't actually hit her. That's far far far from what happened

She asked him a question that he didn't like. He got the hump. He made a stupid remark. Yes it was uncalled for. Yes it was inappropriate. Yes it was sexist. But suggesting that he should get the sack for it is way over the top in my opinion. We all say stupid things in the heat of the moment from time to time. Its one thing to say it, its a whole other matter entirely to actually mean it and perpetrate it

He apologized. She happily accepted. That's the end of it IMO. If the "victim" in this case doesn't feel that his remarks warrant him being sacked then I don't see why anyone else should feel the need to call for it on her behalf. Again, sorry to hear what happened you, but I honestly think this story is being made into something that it isn't.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #745 on: April 4, 2017, 09:43:36 am »
He patronises Vicki Sparks, says he might slap her and then tells her to be careful next time. Where is the joke in that? You can't just play the banter card to brush off misogynistic behaviour.

It is also irrelevant whether the reporter laughed or not. Many people laugh when being bullied or intimidated to diffuse the situation. Sometimes it makes the perpetrators think that their words or actions are acceptable. They are not.

The fact that he said "I've spoken to the girl" in his apology shows he has not respect for the reporter or her position and sees her as inferior. He was totally out of order and was rightly called out for it.

Whether she complained or not is also irrelevant. Her bosses saw how she was treated and saw fit to defend her.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2017, 09:47:06 am by MOZ »

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #746 on: April 4, 2017, 09:49:43 am »
I'm sorry to hear you've been on the receiving end of physical abuse. Whoever did that to you is a lowlife piece of shit IMO. That being said, and with all due respect, I still don't see why that should give your adjudication any extra validity or moral authority. We're not talking about a case of actual physical abuse here. He didn't actually hit her. That's far far far from what happened

She asked him a question that he didn't like. He got the hump. He made a stupid remark. Yes it was uncalled for. Yes it was inappropriate. Yes it was sexist. But suggesting that he should get the sack for it is way over the top in my opinion. We all say stupid things in the heat of the moment from time to time. Its one thing to say it, its a whole other matter entirely to actually mean it and perpetrate it

He apologized. She happily accepted. That's the end of it IMO. If the "victim" in this case doesn't feel that his remarks warrant him being sacked then I don't see why anyone else should feel the need to call for it on her behalf. Again, sorry to hear what happened you, but I honestly think this story is being made into something that it isn't.

With all due respect you are wrong.
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Offline Billy The Kid

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #747 on: April 4, 2017, 10:17:59 am »
With all due respect you are wrong.

Good point well argued

Anyways, must get on with the day ahead

Cheerio
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #748 on: April 4, 2017, 10:55:03 am »
What a load of bollocks.

He makes a joke to someone who was asking him difficult questions. The receiver of the joke laughed about it.

To compare it to domestic violence or misogynistic violence is an absolute travesty.

I don't like Moyes, I don't like Sunderland, but to give this any attention whatsoever just confuses me. People choosing to be offended on behalf of someone who wasn't, so they can show off on the internet message boards and social media how moral they are.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #749 on: April 4, 2017, 10:59:16 am »
Good point well argued

Anyways, must get on with the day ahead

Cheerio

What do you want me to say?  How humiliating, soul destroying being beaten by a man is?  And how, I don't find what Moyes has said, in anyway acceptable.  Heat of the moment?  Please!  I don't care if he was laughing at the time, in fact, in some ways that makes it even worse. 

What kind of person finds slapping a woman in any way a joke?  It's not a joke.  It destroys lives.

I am not surprised she laughed it off though, but no way did she find it funny.
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Offline Wool

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #750 on: April 4, 2017, 10:59:48 am »
Didn't realize so many people here are fine with misogynistic comments and just label it as harmless banter

Yeah, weird stuff.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #751 on: April 4, 2017, 11:00:23 am »
You can't compare a joke between extended colleagues to domestic violence.

And Could someone explain to me why it's misogynistic. He didn't say it because she's a woman.

Female colleague I work with jokingly said she'd kick my head in. Is that sexist? No.

« Last Edit: April 4, 2017, 11:02:07 am by Le Jake »
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #752 on: April 4, 2017, 11:16:31 am »
;)

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Haha spot on

"I'm offended"
"So what?"




Storm in a tea cup about a nothing, throw away phrase said in poor taste weeks ago. Anybody calling for a man to be sacked due to that needs to give their head a wobble and try living in the real world.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #753 on: April 4, 2017, 11:46:16 am »
Is this Sunderland's first attack of the season???

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #754 on: April 4, 2017, 12:06:06 pm »
In a perverse way, it would have been more sexist not to make that joke.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #755 on: April 4, 2017, 12:10:48 pm »
Anyone who thinks that woman found Moysie funny is off their head. Its bullying at its finest, when the person getting bullied tries to laugh their way out of an intimidating awkward situation. They can't take on their bully so they laugh at their offensive remarks so it comes across to others as if they are mates. She's not a 12 year old, the condescending way he's talking to a professional doing their job is disgusting. Who the feck does he think he is.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #756 on: April 4, 2017, 12:21:06 pm »
I don't think he should be sacked. Managing Sunderland is punishment enough. However, as a woman, there are some things going on here that some posters might not see. The first this is this idea of "why didn't she say anything?" It's already an uphill battle being a woman in a male dominated field. She might have seen herself in a tenuous position if she complained. Perhaps she's seen the misogyny around her and realized maybe someone would think she was overreacting (just like a woman/she must be on her period/she can't take the big boy jokes/she's weak). Second, I ask why Moyes (and some posters) found it okay to say to a woman, but I've never heard him say it to a male reporter? Has he threatened to slap Oliver Kay? Has he warned Phil McNulty he should be careful the next time he comes in? Then we get the lovely "I have spoken to the girl" which reeks of patronizing. Yes, she's younger than he is, but would he refer to a younger male reporter as "the boy"? There is more than a whiff of misogyny going on here, and according to some reports, it's not the first time. (Hell, it's not even the first time for a manager. Laurent Blanc asked a female reporter if she knew what a 4-3-3 was, after she asked him about his shift from a 4-4-2.) Firing him won't change that.
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Offline -Daws-

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #757 on: April 4, 2017, 12:24:20 pm »
I want to live in a democracy but I never want to be offended again.

Domestic violence is obviously a nasty, nasty issue, however as mentioned the difference between saying something and doing it is a huge leap. Like Le Jake says, I've been threatened with a slap off both genders where I work, I don't care, it's only in jest, only if someone actually followed it through and genuinely hit me then I might take issue. In fact there's a girl who playfully digs me occasionally because I wind her up saying she has nits (she doesn't), I wonder whether 8 year olds everywhere would be offended at nit jokes? Or more seriously domestic violence victims about the fact she's given me a little dig in the shoulder?

I don't condone any sort of violence, having said that I am very anti political correctness and think the world would be a better place if people didn't take others words to heart so much and weren't offended so easily. Sticks and stones and all that.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #758 on: April 4, 2017, 12:33:36 pm »





The irony of that bellend making that statement is brilliant

Online Millie

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #759 on: April 4, 2017, 12:35:48 pm »
You can't compare a joke between extended colleagues to domestic violence.

And Could someone explain to me why it's misogynistic. He didn't say it because she's a woman.

Female colleague I work with jokingly said she'd kick my head in. Is that sexist? No.



"even if you're a woman"
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