Author Topic: Virgil Van Dijk (Cpt)  (Read 1457632 times)

Offline OOS

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5040 on: April 2, 2019, 08:01:12 am »
Rank the following in their pomps

VVD
Kompany
Vidic
Terry
Rio

You are comparing four world class defenders who dominated for years, part of multiple league winning defences and Champions League winners to a fella who has been with us for just over a year, with nothing to show for it yet. Hes good but it's far to early to have this conversation. Let's see in a few years. Obvs trophies aren't everything, but they play a big part in it. Best players play for best clubs who win stuff.
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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5041 on: April 2, 2019, 08:06:15 am »
I think Ferdinand is under rated and Vidic slightly over rated as a defender if anything. Might just be based on our games against us though!

Early in his career especially everyone made a lot of Ferdinand’s ability on the ball but I don’t think it was that impressive. Defensively though he was very good until his legs went at the end. He had the recovery pace and strength. Vidic was big and imposing and obviously very strong in the air but we saw a few times that he could be got out when isolated in a way Ferdinand couldn’t.

Offline wige

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5042 on: April 2, 2019, 09:16:33 am »
Terry > Ferdinand > Vidic > Kompany for me. But the smallesr of Margins.

Re trophies for Virg, they need to come and surely will. My wider point was I can't think of a single defender in the history of the game who was at or above his level across such a wide range of attributes.

Plus, if you think he's one of the best ever, I don't see harm in saying that's what you think before the trophies come that back it up.

Even if you don't think he's better than Maldini, Baresi, Beckenbauer etc. Fact we can have this discussion without loads of :lmao smileys shows his class

Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5043 on: April 2, 2019, 09:28:14 am »
It is impossible to compare him with Baresi and Maldini as that was a very different time and the game was played at a different pace and the physical demands were less etc.  Who knows if he was better or not than them - one may as well compare Alisson with Lev Yashin or Gordon Banks, or Trent Alexander Arnold with Carlos Alberto.

However we can compare him with present defenders and I think it is quite valid to call him the world's best centreback right now on present form. Whether we win the premiership or not, I think he has done enough to be the PFA player of the year, and if we win the CL, he is a shoo in for European player of the year.

We can also suggest that in terms of physical attributes, he is more gifted than Baresi or Maldini. No one can doubt that he is stronger and more physically imposing, as well as being more athletic and faster.

On another note, although Van Dijk is a very modern kind of centreback, I think there is one thing that I think that he is a throwback to the glory Liverpool days along with our first choice left back - he is a very important Scottish import!


 


Offline RedSince86

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5044 on: April 2, 2019, 09:53:43 am »
LFC Reddit.

"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

Offline RedSince86

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5045 on: April 2, 2019, 09:57:56 am »
Wall St Journal have done a article on VVD yesterday.

Here's a snippet.

Virgil van Dijk dominates the Premier League’s airspace and is lifting Liverpool to new heights
By Joshua Robinson and Mike Sudal
Updated April 1, 2019 12:54 p.m. ET
SHARE
TEXT
6 COMMENTS
Building a reliable defense in the fastest, most punishing league in soccer is painstaking work. It takes years of scouting to find athletes who are able to cope with the demands of England, and seasons of drilling to mold them into a cohesive unit. Most Premier League managers never figure it out.

It turns out that there is one shortcut.

His name is Virgil van Dijk. When he landed in Liverpool in January 2018, the club suddenly had the best defense in the country—overnight.

The club paid $99 million to acquire him from Southampton, five years after he left his native Netherlands. The transfer made van Dijk the single most expensive defender in the history of the game. And yet he might have been undervalued. Since he arrived at Liverpool, no Premier League team has conceded fewer goals.

Not only is he built like a Spartan warrior, but he has the skill, intelligence, and vertical leap to neutralize entire offenses. The last time anyone dribbled past him was more than 50 games ago, according to Opta Sports. Most people brave enough to try it are still picking grass out of their nose.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/english-soccers-flying-dutchman-11554136220?emailToken=68b2d308badda8bc5567bc0e9345008fgy8UduTmvM1V0SAcfxGU/f2ecaidpea7KyqNkYqiM22b2JJK2VEAR3otTV1BcK1t3dgLDm+jHyokmotAZrcH2g%3D%3D&reflink=article_copyURL_share
"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

Offline wige

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5046 on: April 2, 2019, 10:30:57 am »
Anyone able to access aerial duel stats? Would be curious to see his percentages vs rest of the league since he's joined. Think I remember him losing about three of them max..

Offline Jookie

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5047 on: April 2, 2019, 10:36:41 am »
Rank the following in their pomps

VVD
Kompany
Vidic
Terry
Rio


Hard to place VvD in this since you've seen the others in their entirety of their career. How they peaked and how they managed their physical declines. With VvD, most of us are watching him at his peak. At his peak he's comparable with all those players. It depends on how long he stays at his peak.

For the older players I'd say Ferdinand>Terry>Kompany>Vidic.

I think Ferdinand was the best by a fair bit. Most natural ability, though not as good on the ball as he looked in his youth. Kompany would be next in terms of ability but his fitness issues have taken away from his career a little. That's why I'd have Terry next. Not a likeable man but he was a very good defender for a long period of time. Different style of defender than Ferdinand and didn't have his natural ability of physical attributes. But was a very good, no nonsense defender. Same with Vidic. In his pomp he was superb and a great foil for Ferdinand. Thought Vidic fell away quite quickly at the end of his career, hence why I put him last in that list.

VvD has the potential to be top of that pile. In terms of ability and physical attributes he's more similar to Ferdinand than any other on that list. Just needs to keep this level up for 4-5 seasons. Not reason he can't if he stays away from an fitness issues.
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Offline tboz

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5048 on: April 2, 2019, 11:05:07 am »
The chemistry between our three involved players is what impresses me. While van Dijk blocked the passing option to Son, he didn't really allow a free shot. Robertson still tracked back and got there just as the shot is taken to cover rebounds if Alisson saves it. Alisson who generally would've charged up actually falls back, refuses to commit to either side of the goal and stays big which all leads to Sissoko having more time to over think.

Such a good point and it also demonstrates the importance of having team mates who trust each other - alisson not rushing out to close the shot angle and Van Djik no feeling like he had to rush anything. The fact Robertson still sprinted back tells you everyone is up for the fight.

   

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5049 on: April 2, 2019, 11:05:35 am »
You know the guys good when even United fans are saying he's the best in the world in his position. Them blues though wouldn't even have him in their starting 11  :lmao :lmao :lmao
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Offline Rainbow Laces

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5050 on: April 2, 2019, 11:24:55 am »
Also see Salahs first goal @West Ham last year for a comparative situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVqQ1fARcBA at 2:57

Yeah similar, but with two pacy strikers equally capable of scoring there I can see why Cresswell didn't know what the hell to do other than drop off a yard or two extra. That's about as bad as it gets in the Prem having Mané and Salah running at you 2-on-1.

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5051 on: April 2, 2019, 11:28:26 am »
You know the guys good when even United fans are saying he's the best in the world in his position. Them blues though wouldn't even have him in their starting 11  :lmao :lmao :lmao

I met a blue at work yesterday, quite rare down here but he was from North Wales! He was very complimentary about big Virg but was convinced they’d have signed him had Koeman stayed. The one that got away...

Offline Rainbow Laces

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5052 on: April 2, 2019, 11:38:02 am »
Anyone able to access aerial duel stats? Would be curious to see his percentages vs rest of the league since he's joined. Think I remember him losing about three of them max..

I haven't found aerial duel stats yet, but here's a surprising one: VVD is only 6th on the list of top tacklers for us with a lowly 33, only one ahead of Mané on 32! (Robertson's our top tackler by far with 72).

Ah, found aerial stats now. For duels won he's only the 8th best in the league with 146. For aerial duels lost, surprisingly, VVD has apparently lost 43, which is the 4th most for us. (These stats are from premierleague.com by the way).

*He's also 6th best in the league for headed clearances with 93.
« Last Edit: April 2, 2019, 11:39:46 am by Mr Drobs »

Offline wige

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5053 on: April 2, 2019, 11:39:52 am »
I haven't found aerial duel stats yet, but here's a surprising one: VVD is only 6th on the list of top tacklers for us with a lowly 33, only one ahead of Mané on 32! (Robertson's our top tackler by far with 72).

Ah, found aerial stats now. For duels won he's only the 8th best in the league with 146. For aerial duels lost, surprisingly, VVD has apparently lost 43, which is the 4th most for us. (These stats are from premierleague.com by the way).

Cheers. I'd had a search, but couldn't find the percentages of these things, which, I assume, do exist somewhere! Presumably behind a paywall...

Offline Rainbow Laces

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5054 on: April 2, 2019, 11:42:51 am »
Well if we take aerial duels won/lost using those figures it means he wins 77% of them.

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5055 on: April 2, 2019, 11:57:11 am »
Well if we take aerial duels won/lost using those figures it means he wins 77% of them.

 :duh

Thanks for explaining maths to me  ;D

Edit:

So, top three in the league are, apparently:

Maguire - 78% of 127 duels
Virg - 77% of 189 duels
Duffy - 75% of 202 duels.

No-one else above 70%
« Last Edit: April 2, 2019, 12:06:43 pm by wige »

Offline Jm55

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5056 on: April 2, 2019, 12:22:39 pm »
I’m assuming he’s alright after that knock he picked up on Sunday then? Klopp said he was wandering around with an ice pack after the game, but not heard anything on it since?

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5057 on: April 2, 2019, 12:43:21 pm »
I’m assuming he’s alright after that knock he picked up on Sunday then? Klopp said he was wandering around with an ice pack after the game, but not heard anything on it since?
Read something last night that said it was just bruising and should be fine.
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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5058 on: April 2, 2019, 01:08:13 pm »
I haven't found aerial duel stats yet, but here's a surprising one: VVD is only 6th on the list of top tacklers for us with a lowly 33, only one ahead of Mané on 32! (Robertson's our top tackler by far with 72).

Ah, found aerial stats now. For duels won he's only the 8th best in the league with 146. For aerial duels lost, surprisingly, VVD has apparently lost 43, which is the 4th most for us. (These stats are from premierleague.com by the way).

*He's also 6th best in the league for headed clearances with 93.

Wasn't it Maldini who said something along the lines of "If I have to make a tackle then I've already made a mistake" ??

Think this type of thinking would apply to big Virg. He looks fucking disgusted every time he has to make a tackle or break into a sprint lol!

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5059 on: April 2, 2019, 01:15:49 pm »
Wasn't it Maldini who said something along the lines of "If I have to make a tackle then I've already made a mistake" ??

Or somebody else has.
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Offline wige

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5060 on: April 2, 2019, 01:32:17 pm »
Wasn't it Maldini who said something along the lines of "If I have to make a tackle then I've already made a mistake" ??

Think this type of thinking would apply to big Virg. He looks fucking disgusted every time he has to make a tackle or break into a sprint lol!

Thought it was Alonso myself...

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5061 on: April 2, 2019, 01:36:17 pm »
Thought it was Alonso myself...

Twas Djimi  Traore

Offline Rainbow Laces

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5062 on: April 2, 2019, 02:28:27 pm »
Wasn't it Maldini who said something along the lines of "If I have to make a tackle then I've already made a mistake" ??

Think this type of thinking would apply to big Virg. He looks fucking disgusted every time he has to make a tackle or break into a sprint lol!

I like that quote, it makes a lot of sense and certainly shows the weakness in statistics, especially in this regard, as VVD gets to the ball first so often that tackles rarely need to take place and that would certainly explain his low number.
There's probably a gap in statistics here as well as getting to the ball first in many situations almost certainly wouldn't be classed as an interception either, so it probably wouldn't show up in that way. VVD is so good even the stats can't contain him.

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5063 on: April 2, 2019, 02:47:26 pm »
Re trophies for Virg, they need to come and surely will. My wider point was I can't think of a single defender in the history of the game who was at or above his level across such a wide range of attributes.
That's the thing for me. He's an absolute freak and we won't see his like again for a very, very long time. He's up there with the best of the best in any given area, but has so much more to his game than that. Just take that list above -

Terry - Virgil is, if anything, slightly better in the air, at least as strong, calmer, just as good a leader but far, far faster with massively more technical ability.
Ferdinand - Virgil is at least as good in the air and probably quicker than Ferdinand was and, again, much better on the ball.

Even if we take great players from the past--
Baresi - Our offside trap is at least as good as Milan's was, and VvD is a key to organising it. So Virgil matches Baresi's best - his organisation, leadership plus pace and ability on the ball (for a younger Baresi) while, physically, absolutely destroying him.

The GOAT who can match Virgil in the air are either miles slower (Hyppia) or relatively shit with the ball (Terry) or both.
The ones who can match Virgil for pace are either miles worse in the air or technically inferior or both...etc etc etc.

Virgil is basically a world class dream CB pairing - in one player. That's why he makes everyone next to him look so good. He's got the pace to cover Matip, the aerial ability to cover Gomez and the technical ability to cover Lovren. Whoever is next to him can simply focus on doing what they do best knowing that, not only will Virgil be able to do the other stuff to a world class standard but also that they're not 'exposing' anything else by doing that. If Gomez gets done for pace, say, Virgil is still fast enough to make a recovery tackle.

I've never seen his like and it's insane that he hasn't been playing at the highest level for years now. The whole world of football scouting dropped a colossal collective bollock on that one.
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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5064 on: April 2, 2019, 02:51:06 pm »
Terry was better on the ball than he was given credit for.

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5065 on: April 2, 2019, 04:47:33 pm »
If only we had Gomez fit. That lad is phenomenal if he can be fit. If we can have another good fit defender on ball skills we would be covered well. Or maybe the plan would be to have a good player like Fab and have Fab cover as needed. If we have the same 4 including Matip and Lovren we are good for next season.
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Offline Jack The Lad

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5066 on: April 2, 2019, 05:24:32 pm »
If only we had Gomez fit. That lad is phenomenal if he can be fit. If we can have another good fit defender on ball skills we would be covered well. Or maybe the plan would be to have a good player like Fab and have Fab cover as needed. If we have the same 4 including Matip and Lovren we are good for next season.

Would be a dream that but doesn’t look likely.  Just can’t rely on him to be fit to play 80% of the season. His 6 week injury is coming up to 5 months. We’ve had enough of that with Sturridge and Aurelio in the past.

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5067 on: April 2, 2019, 05:33:23 pm »
Would be a dream that but doesn’t look likely.  Just can’t rely on him to be fit to play 80% of the season. His 6 week injury is coming up to 5 months. We’ve had enough of that with Sturridge and Aurelio in the past.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Sturridge and Aurelio had muscle injuries,strains, not leg breaks. He missed some games last season, but neither were muscle injuries, which is what hindered Sturridge and Aurelio all of their careers.


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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5068 on: April 2, 2019, 05:36:49 pm »
You're comparing apples to oranges. Sturridge and Aurelio had muscle injuries,strains, not leg breaks. He missed some games last season, but neither were muscle injuries, which is what hindered Sturridge and Aurelio all of their careers.

But when he gets injured, regardless of what it is, you just know it’s gonna be a long lay off. Club say 6 weeks, still not seen 4 months later. This is why I reckon we need another top quality centre back to play alongside Virgil. Someone you can rely on, to you know, actually play.

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5069 on: April 2, 2019, 05:39:29 pm »
But when he gets injured, regardless of what it is, you just know it’s gonna be a long lay off. Club say 6 weeks, still not seen 4 months later. This is why I reckon we need another top quality centre back to play alongside Virgil. Someone you can rely on, to you know, actually play.

That's the club's fault not his fault. Or better yet sometimes you can't predict 100% how quickly a bone can heal which is what happened in this case. He didn't have a long layoff last season.

Going forward he should be the #2 centerback next to Virgil, but another CB should be brought in, regardless what happens to Lovren and Matip. Lovren seems to be the bigger issue injury wise.

Offline beardsleyismessimk1

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5070 on: April 2, 2019, 07:13:37 pm »
You know the guys good when even United fans are saying he's the best in the world in his position. Them blues though wouldn't even have him in their starting 11  :lmao :lmao :lmao

Who needs a pace defender anyway all he does is pace defend.
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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5071 on: April 2, 2019, 07:25:10 pm »
That's the thing for me. He's an absolute freak and we won't see his like again for a very, very long time. He's up there with the best of the best in any given area, but has so much more to his game than that. Just take that list above -

Terry - Virgil is, if anything, slightly better in the air, at least as strong, calmer, just as good a leader but far, far faster with massively more technical ability.
Ferdinand - Virgil is at least as good in the air and probably quicker than Ferdinand was and, again, much better on the ball.

Even if we take great players from the past--
Baresi - Our offside trap is at least as good as Milan's was, and VvD is a key to organising it. So Virgil matches Baresi's best - his organisation, leadership plus pace and ability on the ball (for a younger Baresi) while, physically, absolutely destroying him.

The GOAT who can match Virgil in the air are either miles slower (Hyppia) or relatively shit with the ball (Terry) or both.
The ones who can match Virgil for pace are either miles worse in the air or technically inferior or both...etc etc etc.

Virgil is basically a world class dream CB pairing - in one player. That's why he makes everyone next to him look so good. He's got the pace to cover Matip, the aerial ability to cover Gomez and the technical ability to cover Lovren. Whoever is next to him can simply focus on doing what they do best knowing that, not only will Virgil be able to do the other stuff to a world class standard but also that they're not 'exposing' anything else by doing that. If Gomez gets done for pace, say, Virgil is still fast enough to make a recovery tackle.

I've never seen his like and it's insane that he hasn't been playing at the highest level for years now. The whole world of football scouting dropped a colossal collective bollock on that one.

Good post but hes not much better on the ball than Rio, the part of his game where he is much better is in the air.

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5072 on: April 2, 2019, 08:43:18 pm »
It would be criminal if we didn't win major silverware with him in the side, over the next few years.

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5073 on: April 2, 2019, 10:12:41 pm »
It would be criminal if we didn't win major silverware with him in the side, over the next few years. this year



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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5075 on: April 3, 2019, 04:16:17 am »
Ask and you shall receive....




God, still getting a boner over this. Absolute perfect defending.

But also, Fabinho needs to be sprinting that whole time, little bit lazy there.
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5076 on: April 3, 2019, 04:20:26 am »
Good post but hes not much better on the ball than Rio, the part of his game where he is much better is in the air.

He can be argued to be a better leader as well to such a degree he imparts great confidence and calmness to the rest of the defence.

Offline Redcap

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5077 on: April 3, 2019, 04:38:36 am »
Also see Salahs first goal @West Ham last year for a comparative situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVqQ1fARcBA at 2:57

Without taking anything away from VVD, Mané also played that situation better than Sissoko did, by coming in a little bit and drawing the defender. On the other hand Sissoko didn't try to make VVD commit.

Offline U-238A

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5078 on: April 3, 2019, 06:15:01 am »
Without taking anything away from VVD, Mané also played that situation better than Sissoko did, by coming in a little bit and drawing the defender. On the other hand Sissoko didn't try to make VVD commit.

Can't agree. Sissoko goes diagonally towards VVD and is inside the semi circle and at the edge of the box when he makes his mind up - or VVD makes his mind up for him by having backed away until the last second. Mane on the other hand is outside semi circle and just outside the box also. The West Ham defender was almost at arms length to Mane. Had he kept his equidistant between Mane and Salah, Mane would have almost certainly had to take it himself on his left also. And we've seen Mane blaze many with his left foot either left of the post or over - and of course into the back of the net also.

Offline ChrisLFCKOP

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Re: Virgil Van Dijk signs for Liverpool
« Reply #5079 on: April 3, 2019, 06:59:51 am »
God, still getting a boner over this. Absolute perfect defending.

But also, Fabinho needs to be sprinting that whole time, little bit lazy there.

just noticed were Robbo starts from, now thats commitment to get back and help out.