Topic: Liverpool owner Hicks selling Texas Rangers shares

[Dr. Beaker]

'Engage speculation warp drive Scotty'.

[fry]

'Engage speculation warp drive Scotty'.

i say keep it at spec factor 1.  We dont want the engine shutting down or locking up.

Make it so

[Dr. Beaker]

i say keep it at spec factor 1. 

'Aye, or the Modulons will no be able tae hold it'.

[blert596]

Probably just because Rafa thought "Fuck Spain. Shit weather. Shit culture. Shit birds."

[WaltonRed]

Probably just because Rafa thought "Fuck Spain. Shit weather. Shit culture. Shit birds."

The last bit is true, certainly for a man of Rafa's age.

They all look dead fit in their teens and twenties and then they hit their 30s and mysteriously they turn really ugly.  No matter how fit a Spanish bird looks, you only need to see her mother to realise you are onto an ultimate loser.

[4pool]

According to the Dallas Morning News the home Opening Day game for the Texas Rangers on Monday April 6th is all but sold out. A few limited view seats are left and some standing room only tickets remain.

[west_london_red]

The last bit is true, certainly for a man of Rafa's age.

They all look dead fit in their teens and twenties and then they hit their 30s and mysteriously they turn really ugly.  No matter how fit a Spanish bird looks, you only need to see her mother to realise you are onto an ultimate loser.

Its the sun, bad for the skin.

[belfast-connection]

what I actually took from rafa's quote the first time i read it was that he had possibly backed down a bit in contract negotiations for the good of the club, i.e. to help in this seasons transfer dealings and to get them on the road quicker

he chose to do that now, rather than continue to haggle until the end of the season and then be behind in the transfer market

[fry]

The last bit is true, certainly for a man of Rafa's age.

They all look dead fit in their teens and twenties and then they hit their 30s and mysteriously they turn really ugly.  No matter how fit a Spanish bird looks, you only need to see her mother to realise you are onto an ultimate loser.

lol  I never made that connection before.  Faces like poorly manufactured leather.

[wednesday25052005]

what I actually took from rafa's quote the first time i read it was that he had possibly backed down a bit in contract negotiations for the good of the club, i.e. to help in this seasons transfer dealings and to get them on the road quicker

he chose to do that now, rather than continue to haggle until the end of the season and then be behind in the transfer market

That's a fair point and would make sense from Rafa's point of view if he wants to get a head start in tieing existing players down on extended contracts and bringing in new transfers.

[shelovesyou]

I personally wouldnt read into that Benitez statement too much , He considered his future as anyone would if they thought they wouldnt get their contract sorted soon and in time for the summer . Nothing more Nothing less .

[rafathegaffa83]

According to the Dallas Morning News the home Opening Day game for the Texas Rangers on Monday April 6th is all but sold out. A few limited view seats are left and some standing room only tickets remain.

Opening Day is usually a full-house at most stadiums. It's in the dog days of June and July when the place is half empty that will be really telling

[fry]

Opening Day is usually a full-house at most stadiums. It's in the dog days of June and July when the place is half empty that will be really telling

It would be interesting to know what the attendance on opening day last season was and what the average was for the rest of the season

[rafathegaffa83]

It would be interesting to know what the attendance on opening day last season was and what the average was for the rest of the season

In 2008, their average attendance including Opening Day was 24,021 per game which is 11th out of 14 teams in the American League, but more tellingly their average attendance was 25th out of thirty teams in all of major league baseball.  Opening Day was around 48,808. The stadium's capacity is 49,178. By their third home game it dropped off to 15,560.  The season low was 13, 536 for a game in early September. According to ESPN, Texas only filled 49.5% of seats at the Ballpark at Arlington last season, the fourth worst in all of baseball.

Ironically this article points to a sluggish economy abetting dwindling attendances. Mind you this was published in July, 2008. One only wonders how it will hit them this year then.

Texas Rangers' home attendance on pace to hit 20-year low
10:44 AM CDT on Monday, July 28, 2008

By GARY JACOBSON / The Dallas Morning News
gjacobson@dallasnews.com

Major League Baseball appears immune to the sluggish economy and could set another attendance record this season. But the Rangers, on pace for their first winning season in four years, are suffering at the gate.

The team returns to Arlington tonight for the first time since the All-Star Game. Home attendance has averaged about 20 percent less than through the same number of dates in 2007. So far this season, about half of the available tickets have sold for each game on average.

If that rate holds the rest of the season, the Rangers would record their lowest average attendance since 1988, the year before Hall of Famer Nolan Ryan – now the team's president – first took the mound at old Arlington Stadium.

Yes, the team got off to a slow start, June and July have been unusually hot, and the top opposing attractions haven't yet come to town.

The economy also is taking its toll. North Texas fans are making tough choices as gasoline and grocery prices increase and the threat of recession looms.

"With $4 gasoline, I think a lot of people are choosing other forms of entertainment," said sports business expert Craig Depken of Rangers fans. Dr. Depken is a former UT-Arlington professor who now teaches at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte.

Rangers management is hopeful about the second half of the season. After the slow start on the field, the team is playing well. And there are seven home games remaining against their biggest draws, the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox, starting with the upcoming homestand. Last year, the Rangers' nine home dates against the Yankees and Red Sox came in April and May.

"When the season is over, attendance will be very comparable to last year," said Mr. Ryan, who returned to the organization in February.

But the second half also brings challenges. There's more Texas heat, of course. And the Cowboys are back in training camp.

The biggest challenge might be simple math. To equal the 2007 attendance, the Rangers must average about 35,200 for each of their remaining 35 home dates. On an annual basis, they haven't come close to that level since 2001, Alex Rodriguez's first season here.

"We might not equal last year, but we're going to do better than we did earlier in the year," said Dale Petroskey, first-year executive vice president for marketing. "That's for sure."

Economy's impact
One of those fans making tough choices is Joe Siegler, who writes the rangerfans.com blog and says he attended as many as 20 to 25 games a season just a few years ago.

"Do I spend the money on my family for food or on the Rangers?" he said.

Mr. Siegler lives in Garland, 33 miles from the stadium. Because his 2004 Dodge Dakota pickup gets 15 miles to the gallon, he figures he spends $16 on gas getting to and from a game.

Add parking and "that's $28 before I've even bought my ticket," he said. This year, he figures, he'll see only six games. Part of that reduction is because of a church commitment but a big part is the economy.

Dr. Depken said teams in large geographic markets such as North Texas are affected most by higher transportation costs, especially if – as in Arlington – there is no mass transit alternative.

Mr. Petroskey, former president of the Baseball Hall of Fame, said the Rangers started the season behind as season-ticket sales were down 15 percent. He attributes that to last season's 75-87 record and fan worries about the economy.

Currently, Mr. Petroskey said, trends are up for the year in the categories of single-game, walk-up, suite and group sales.

Fan interest and attendance don't build or decline overnight based on a team's play, Mr. Ryan said, pointing to the Houston Astros, another of his former teams. This season, he said, the losing Astros still are benefiting from their strong performance "over the last few years" that included a trip to the 2005 World Series.

Not only is Rangers' attendance declining, so is the club's relative performance against other major league teams.

From 1998 through 2007, the Rangers' rank in average home attendance among the clubs ranged from as high as ninth place to as low as 18th, according to analysis of data compiled by ESPN, the Baseball Almanac and MLB. Before the break this year, the Rangers' average of 24,941 ranked 25th.

Only Oakland, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Pittsburgh and Florida had averaged fewer fans at the break.

For all of 2007, the Rangers averaged 29,796; at this point last season, the Rangers averaged 31,510.

On TV, the Rangers are attracting more viewers this season. On FSN Southwest, ratings have increased every month since the start of the season and were up 16 percent from a year ago through the All-Star break, spokesman Ramon Alvarez said.

The July 10 home game, during which the Rangers forced the first-place Los Angeles Angels to extra innings after trailing by six runs, was the highest-rated game since August 2005. It was seen by an average of 97,670 area homes. Between 10:15 p.m. and 11:30 p.m., an average of nearly 147,000 homes tuned in.

Alternative choices
Mr. Ryan said he is encouraged by the enthusiasm that he detects among fans at the ballpark. The number of no-shows – people who buy tickets but don't use them – is down 14 percentage points from last year. In baseball, reported attendance reflects the number of tickets issued, not the number of people who attend a game.

The team has tried a gasoline promotion (a $5 coupon with a ticket), offers all-you-can-eat seats and free tickets to teachers. A new marketing campaign features the team's 2008 All-Stars in TV commercials.

This year's marketing budget equals last year's, Mr. Ryan said. The Rangers won't release specifics on the size of the marketing budget.

Mr. Ryan thinks some fans in Far North Dallas and Collin County might be choosing to go see the Rangers' Double-A minor league team, the Frisco RoughRiders, instead of Rangers games on weeknights. Going into last weekend, the Riders' attendance was up over last year by 99 fans per date.

But he doesn't think the RoughRiders cost the Rangers any weekend traffic. Nor does he think the new independent minor league team in Grand Prairie, the AirHogs, hurts the Rangers. The AirHogs are averaging about 3,000 fans a game in their inaugural season.

Travel plans
The economy doesn't seem to be hurting the Cowboys or the Stars.

"We're basically sold out," says Cowboys spokesman Rich Dalrymple of the team's upcoming final year at Texas Stadium before it moves to its new stadium in Arlington.

Jeff Cogen, president of the Stars, says season-ticket sales for 2008-09 are tracking about 1,000 ahead of last season's pace, which eventually totaled 12,500. Mavericks owner Mark Cuban declined to comment on whether the economy is affecting his team.

Roughly 12 percent of Stars fans last year used DART rail or the TRE to get to games, Mr. Cogen said. That's not an option in Arlington, though Arlington Mayor Robert Cluck hopes that will change.

"We're getting more and more interest in public transportation," Mr. Cluck said. He eventually foresees a "seamless" rail system linking Arlington and its sports stadiums to Dallas and Fort Worth.

Mr. Cogen served as president of the Rangers from 2004 through last November, when he returned to owner Tom Hicks' other local big-league team. When Mr. Cogen was with the Rangers, he said, he never forgot that they offered the most affordable pro ticket in town.

On a weighted average basis, Rangers tickets are among the most moderately priced in the majors, according to data on sports economist Rodney Fort's Web site.

But price tells only part of the story. This month, Sports Illustrated published what it called a fan price index for cities with big-league teams, comparing the cost of going to a game with the cost of living in each city.

In Texas, SI wrote, the price of being a fan exceeds the cost of living. San Antonio, Houston and Dallas ranked first, second and third, respectively.

That's another challenge the Rangers face as they begin the second part of their home season.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/072808dnsporangersattend.43a5621.html

[lfctitch]

How do his other clubs make money with such poor attendances? Unbelievable. That really puts into perspective how small time fish these 2 really are with attendances of 15000 in a (whats the capacity of the stadium?) This is championship level, not premier league level.

They mustn't make much on merchandise either with such poor attendances. How do these clubs afford to keep going? If that was Britain, you would put that somewhere where Charlton have gone, and thats the brink of Administration.

[fry]

How do his other clubs make money with such poor attendances? Unbelievable. That really puts into perspective how small time fish these 2 really are with attendances of 15000 in a (whats the capacity of the stadium?) This is championship level, not premier league level.

They mustn't make much on merchandise either with such poor attendances. How do these clubs afford to keep going? If that was Britain, you would put that somewhere where Charlton have gone, and thats the brink of Administration.

You have to remeber that hicks is happy not to win as long as we stay at least mid table and our bums are on the seats.  Winning is a bonus to him not a priority.

***DISCLAIMER:  ALL IMO***

[fry]

In 2008, their average attendance including Opening Day was 24,021 per game which is 11th out of 14 teams in the American League, but more tellingly their average attendance was 25th out of thirty teams in all of major league baseball.  Opening Day was around 48,808. The stadium's capacity is 49,178. By their third home game it dropped off to 15,560.  The season low was 13, 536 for a game in early September. According to ESPN, Texas only filled 49.5% of seats at the Ballpark at Arlington last season, the fourth worst in all of baseball.

Ironically this article points to a sluggish economy abetting dwindling attendances. Mind you this was published in July, 2008. One only wonders how it will hit them this year then.

I think they will reach a new low.  Thanks for the info mate.  Very thorough

[4pool]

Well the Grand Prairie Warthogs are planning an Octomom night in the summer. In honor of the lass that had the 8 kids. Some sort of pram race, and baby race, etc. And they have on their schedule an AIG night where fans can win cash.

THere are other local minor league baseball teams in Ft. Worth and Frisco in the area as well who have various promotions as well.

Typically "average" attendance is slower until the end of May midweek once school lets out . Then goes up after that. Weekends are usually nearer capacity. For the Rangers when the Yankees or Red Sox come to town even midweek they are usually near sold out.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

According to the Dallas Morning News the home Opening Day game for the Texas Rangers on Monday April 6th is all but sold out. A few limited view seats are left and some standing room only tickets remain.

enjoy it while it lasts!

[fry]

Well the Grand Prairie Warthogs are planning an Octomom night in the summer. In honor of the lass that had the 8 kids. Some sort of pram race, and baby race, etc. And they have on their schedule an AIG night where fans can win cash.

THere are other local minor league baseball teams in Ft. Worth and Frisco in the area as well who have various promotions as well.

Typically "average" attendance is slower until the end of May midweek once school lets out . Then goes up after that. Weekends are usually nearer capacity. For the Rangers when the Yankees or Red Sox come to town even midweek they are usually near sold out.

lol they should chage the name to milf night, would be a sell out.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

How do his other clubs make money with such poor attendances? Unbelievable. That really puts into perspective how small time fish these 2 really are with attendances of 15000 in a (whats the capacity of the stadium?) This is championship level, not premier league level.

They mustn't make much on merchandise either with such poor attendances. How do these clubs afford to keep going? If that was Britain, you would put that somewhere where Charlton have gone, and thats the brink of Administration.

tv deals are a nice earner and more than compensate lack of people at the games. plus the us franchise system is geared to make profits for the owners, and if they dont then the value of the franchise normally rises every year more than the losses that the owner has to subsidize (see LA Clippers and Donald Sterling)

[4pool]

Not to mention the Texas Rangers have 81 home games a season.


Edit: And 81 away games.  From april to october.

[JimmyF]

Not to mention the Texas Rangers have 81 home games a season.


Edit: And 81 away games.  From april to october.

October, they'll be lucky.

[4pool]

October, they'll be lucky.

They've got 4 games in October. All away. One against the LA Angels and 3 v Seattle.

Then the season ends.

Unless they make the playoffs. Which is like saying Everton will be in the Champions League.

[Brian Blessed]

How do his other clubs make money with such poor attendances? Unbelievable. That really puts into perspective how small time fish these 2 really are with attendances of 15000 in a (whats the capacity of the stadium?) This is championship level, not premier league level.

They mustn't make much on merchandise either with such poor attendances. How do these clubs afford to keep going? If that was Britain, you would put that somewhere where Charlton have gone, and thats the brink of Administration.

I think the fact that we have to win to make money, rather just rest on our laurels really fucked these two. The idea of relegation must have been quite a shocker, too.

[rafathegaffa83]

How do his other clubs make money with such poor attendances? Unbelievable. That really puts into perspective how small time fish these 2 really are with attendances of 15000 in a (whats the capacity of the stadium?) This is championship level, not premier league level.

Well he does have 81 games to make up the money, but it is mostly from TV deals. According to the an article in 2000 from the New York Times the Rangers signed at the end of the nineties two TV deals with Fox Sports. In 1999, Fox Sports paid $250m over ten years for the local cable rights for both the Texas Rangers baseball games and the Dallas Stars hockey games. They also paid at the same time another $250m over fifteen years for both teams' local broadcast rights. The New York Times estimates the Rangers might receive upwards of $41m plus from that deal alone each year.

Hicks was able to procure the money for two reasons. One, he had inherited a winning team that audiences wanted to watch.  Also the Dallas Stars were at the highpoint of their pre-salary cap success, winning the Stanley Cup in 1999. Secondly, he threatened to create a rival cable network that would have prevented Fox from broadcasting any Rangers or Stars across the country and would have severely restricted their ability in the Dallas market. Fox as noted buckled under the pressure. 

The strange thing in all of this is that Dallas is not really a hockey market and has never really been a baseball market. It's Cowboys/NFL country. The Stars have the fifteen highest average attendance (17,673) in the thirty team NHL. The have only been in the top ten in average attendance twice in the past decade and even were 14th in 2001, two years after winning the Stanley Cup (i.e the league) To put it into perspective, Gillett's Canadiens are usually the highest in the league averaging a sellout each game of 21,273.

As far as major league baseball goes, the highest average attendance the Rangers have had since Hicks took over is 34,952 (2001), which was Rodriguez's first season in Texas and was 11th highest in the league. Even in Rodriguez second and third seasons in Texas, attendance dipped significantly.

Since 2001, here are the Texas Rangers' Average attendance and percentage of tickets sold (PoTS) and its ranking in comparison with the Major League Baseball average attendance and percentage of tickets sold.

2001: Avg Att: 34,952. PoTS 71.1%  Avg. Att Rank. in MLB:11th/30 PoTS in MLB: 14/30
2002: Avg Att: 29,404. PoTS: 59.8% MLB Avg: 15th/30 MLB AVG PoTS: 17/30
2003: Avg Att: 25,856. PoTS: 52.5% MLB Avg: 18th/30 MLB AVG PoTS: 19/30
2004: Avg Att: 31,818. PofTS:64.8% MLB Avg: 13th/30 MLB AVG PoTS: 14/30
2005: Avg Att: 31,565. PoTS: 64.3% MLB Avg: 15th/30 MLB AVG PoTS: 16/30
2006: Avg Att: 29,420. PoTS: 60.0% MLB AVG: 16th/30 MLB AVG PoTS: 19/30
2007: Avg Att: 29,795. POTS: 60.7% MLB AVG: 17th/30 MLB AVG PoTS: 18/30
2008: Avg Att: 24,320. PoTS: 49.5% MLB AVG: 25th/30 MLB AVG PoTS:  27/30

The fact that Texas isn't really a baseball purists environment nor does it have a historical baseball culture makes me wonder how on earth he's going to sell some of his shares in the Rangers, especially since they've only sold 70% or more of their tickets once this decade and have been rarely in the top half of attendance/tickets sold. The fact the team has had ONE season with a winning record (over .500) this decade (2004) would make it even more difficult for him, I'd think.

[4pool]

rafathegaffa83

What you're posting is nothing but numbers. Not that they're wrong or anything. But as you are not a baseball person I take it, nor know much about the local area, i'll fill in the gaps.

Baseball in Texas is a day out for most. True The Rangers have their corporate suites, boxes, etc. And of course the season ticket base.

But most people go for the day out. With 162 games in basically six months that's a lot of baseball. Plus if you really want to go on the cheap it costs as low as $6 for adults and $3 for kids. So a family of 6 can get to one baseball game for about 1/2 of what it costs one person to go to Anfield.

However quite a number of families come from miles around. Last year gasoline prices were twice what they were now and family budgets were crunched. Not to mention you can see every game on tv.

As for the Rangers purists, there is optimism that with Nolan Ryan now President the Rangers have switched gears in how they operate. Gone are the days of buying big name players. The Rangers are changing tact and going the development route through their minor leagues clubs ( Think Academy route for those that don't know baseball..) They plan on developing their own players rather than buy most of them.

Plus Nolan is a pitching legend and he's taking a hands on approach to the young pitchers in the system. So purists see some light at the end of the tunnel.

I suspect with gas prices down that attendance will rise back to "normal" levels this season. Well as long as gas prices don't shoot back up out of sight.

Winning brings more fans to the ballpark. Bandwaggoners if you like. But for most it will always just be a day out. HAs been that way all the years i've lived here.

An example, the Rangers first game is Monday and there's a small article on the front page of the local paper. THe biggest article is on the Dallas Cowboys and they are in their close season. When I moved here I was told there's two seasons in Texas....Football and Spring Football ( Preseason).

Rangers, Stars, and even the Mavericks take backseat to the Dallas Cowboys and even College/University football.

And that is why, a blogger or newspaper writer apart, you'll hardly see protests or the like at a Rangers game. Baseball just isn't that important. It's like those who follow Wigan expecting them to win the League. Rangers fans don't expect to be in the playoffs never mind World Series. Hopefull they make the playoffs but low expectations.

Now if Hicks owned the Cowboys and they continually were shite, there would be protests.

[rafathegaffa83]

4pool, I do understand that the Rangers are like a day out in Dallas and they aren't a big/traditional baseball market. They aren't the Detroit Tigers who can sell more than 90% of their tickets, despite an economy that's been in near-depression in the Detroit area for the last three years.

 I was merely answering questions re: their income and stating that I think because of the lack of an extensive baseball fanbase in the area, I believe Hicks would struggle to offload shares to (an) individual(s) because of the lack of interest in the area. You only have to look at the difficulties the Chicago Cubs had attracting investors and Wrigley Field is usually sold out no matter what day of the week it is. It would be the same scenario if Hicks owned the Royals or any other franchise without a massive baseball fanbase in the city.

[bootroom boy]

Who the F**K is interested about the Texas Rangers?
Hope Hicks, the lardy arsed bastard, chokes on his first hot dog of the season!
Forget the overtures he's made in offering Rafa a new contract, he's a coniving, schemeing, untrustworthy bastard who is waiting for this recession to blow over before he makes a killing.
As for 'Sid the Snake', GG, he should sell as soon as possible, preferably to somebody who would kick Hick's arse, however only a size 18 boot would be needed.

[4pool]

4pool, I do understand that the Rangers are like a day out in Dallas and they aren't a big/traditional baseball market. They aren't the Detroit Tigers who can sell more than 90% of their tickets, despite an economy that's been in near-depression in the Detroit area for the last three years.

 I was merely answering questions re: their income and stating that I think because of the lack of an extensive baseball fanbase in the area, I believe Hicks would struggle to offload shares to (an) individual(s) because of the lack of interest in the area. You only have to look at the difficulties the Chicago Cubs had attracting investors and Wrigley Field is usually sold out no matter what day of the week it is. It would be the same scenario if Hicks owned the Royals or any other franchise without a massive baseball fanbase in the city.

Well anyone who buys the club off of Hicks will look at the numbers and determine they can make a go of it. If they can generate 5,000 more in average attendance from last season that means 400,000 per year. And the average ticket is somewhere aorund $20-25. There's 8-9 million dollars per season more. Multiply by parking, food, etc. and it adds up. And that is plausible without the Rangers making the playoffs. Now if they got lucky and the Rangers did make the playoffs that generates even more. Plus they don't need to build a new stadium.

Add in that next fall the Dallas Cowboys move in next door and there is opportunity for increased revenue from Cowboys fans coming and going on non game days. The gift shop and restaurant is open year round.

btw..sadly Chelsea will play in the new cowboys stadium v Club America during preseason in July.
Bastards  should have been Liverpool.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Now if Hicks owned the Cowboys and they continually were shite, there would be protests.

the cowboys have been continually shite since 1995 when they last won a playoff game!!!

[No666]

The figures are interesting Rafa. It underlines how Hicks does not prioritise success, if nothing else. Why it really bothers me that Rafa (the real one) has no figure on a summer transfer budget. However, the important figure is the one Hicks is placing on 49% of the team, because if it is unrealistic it doesn't matter whether anyone sees room for improvement in the yearly performance. Besides, I believe buying into a sports club as a minority investor is only for billionaires on ego trips and as we know only too well there ain't many of those floating around atm.

[fry]

Cheers, 4pool, raffathegaffa. Insightfull stuff.  It cements the idea that hicks will try to instill here. Easy business, hope for the top, settle for the middle.  He knows that Anfield will be rammed either way.     

[west_london_red]

Cheers, 4pool, raffathegaffa. Insightfull stuff.  It cements the idea that hicks will try to instill here. Easy business, hope for the top, settle for the middle.  He knows that Anfield will be rammed either way.    

A rammed Anfield isnt enough though, needs to be a rammed new stadium.

[fry]

A rammed Anfield isnt enough though, needs to be a rammed new stadium.

True, there is no room for cheer leaders and hot dog guys at the moment.

[HarryLabrador]

A rammed Anfield isnt enough though, needs to be a rammed new stadium.

well, that's exactly the point WLR. We have come full circle from where we started this journey in 2007. It is all about a new stadium, not a virtual one!

[coffeehead]

Cheers, 4pool, raffathegaffa. Insightfull stuff.  It cements the idea that hicks will try to instill here. Easy business, hope for the top, settle for the middle.  He knows that Anfield will be rammed either way.   

In a nutshell.

Should be carved in rock and placed above every entrance to Anfield so no-one is in any doubt what the deal is. As you say the ownership model is to 'hope for the top' rather than strive every (business and financial) sinew for it. That's the future. It might work out for a while, in which case we'll all be happy, but it won't make the model any less dodgy as a long-term strategy.

[4pool]

The difference is Rangers fans expect mediocrity if you can call it that. It's a day out for them.

Is that how Liverpool supporters are?

If not, then the same business model won't work.

Liverpool supporters demand success because we are used to it.

[fry]

The difference is Rangers fans expect mediocrity if you can call it that. It's a day out for them.

Is that how Liverpool supporters are?

If not, then the same business model won't work.

Liverpool supporters demand success because we are used to it.

I think that was coffeheads point,  their business model here will not work, as they are not used to people wanting to be the best.

[4pool]

I think that was coffeheads point,  their business model here will not work, as they are not used to people wanting to be the best.

There's a lot of optimism in the club right now at the business end of the season. No one can guarantee we'll win the League or CL but we'll see what happens. I like our chances.