Author Topic: Do you support the strikes?  (Read 74455 times)

Offline Original

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #160 on: June 22, 2022, 03:39:17 pm »
Sorry no .The more I look at the interview the more I think it's a car crash interview by Lynch.
 "Picketing is about encouraging people who want to go to work not to go to work."
If that was a answer in a exam he would get 5/10.
Picketing is about explaining what the dispute is about and asking for their support by persuading them to support the strike by not crossing the picket line.
Your not just encouraging them not to cross the picket line your convincing them to back the strike, you've convinced them strike action is justified.

I think he got frustrated as he could visualise why Burley was wrong but he couldn't put it into words which is poor.  he looked around and pointed at the pickets as if it proved he was right but he couldn't put it into words, I looked at it and thought the few people standing on todays picket line shows the Union have no intention of physically trying to stop anyone crossing the picket line, if that was the intention then you would have seen hundreds of Strikers standing here today..






How can you come to the conclusion that it was a car crash for lynch? Are you round the bend? She was baiting him and he didn't take it and remained perfectly calm

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #161 on: June 22, 2022, 03:57:08 pm »
Haha! Fucks knows what happened there. I’d like to say some weird autocorrect but I think just my own stupidity!
Well, to be frank, because of your and Oldfordie's posts, I almost started to use 'Flynn' in response too. :-X ;D
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #162 on: June 22, 2022, 04:16:48 pm »
Well, to be frank, because of your and Oldfordie's posts, I almost started to use 'Flynn' in response too. :-X ;D
;D I blame oldfordie!

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #163 on: June 22, 2022, 04:17:38 pm »
How can you come to the conclusion that it was a car crash for lynch? Are you round the bend? She was baiting him and he didn't take it and remained perfectly calm
Round the bend, nah, just very experienced when it comes to strikes and disputes, disputes may be new to many people on here, we went through them regularly, decades of influence by brilliant Stewards and conveners has left it's mark. I wont nod along and cheer when I think a senior official handled a TV interview badly.
 OK, you asked why I came to the conclusion of it being a car crash for Lynch.
Do you think Lynch was right to defend the Pickets arguing they will encourage people who want to work not to work. is that the right message to send to win public support ?
It's a matter of opinion on whether Lynch remained calm, I think he defiantly got flustered towards the end of the interview turning around looking at the pickets saying does that look like the Miners strike. did people at home understand what he meant by that. ?
The whole point of the interview was to win over public support, many people still think of pickets as something we left behind in the 80s. they are miles apart today but this dispute has been orchestrated by the Torys to make people think back to militant angry trade unionists holding the country to ransom and I don't think Lynch changed their minds much in that interview.

It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #164 on: June 22, 2022, 04:30:32 pm »
;D I blame oldfordie!
:D Am blaming Lynches m8s for calling him Flynn, maybe there like Trigger out of Only fools and horses calling Rodney Dave all the time.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 04:40:01 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #165 on: June 22, 2022, 04:54:17 pm »
You have to wonder what they were thinking with this pattern of strike, no strike, strike, it just seems like a cheeky way to minimise the impact and cost to them compared with everyone else who will have a week of disrupted travel.  ;D

The union also needed to be better with their messaging, too often a rail strike is stereotyped as about the drivers (who do get decent pay), whereas this one is practically nothing to do with them and is about all the other rail workers who are relatively poorly paid.


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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #166 on: June 22, 2022, 04:57:34 pm »
Many more strikes will follow.

Why? Well look at this for teachers (and early years and the care sector are even worse).

Look at the colossal drop in earning compared to the rest of the economy



https://www.ft.com/content/edc85667-9471-4934-920d-f80a8dc83393

It’s all very well asking for pay restraint, in normal times people might be more understanding, but when you’ve fucked people over for well over a decade, it becomes untenable.
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #167 on: June 22, 2022, 05:17:06 pm »
Heard a seemingly valid point today. Rail prices are indexed linked, nurses and teaches etc don't charge customers for their work, so the wage price spiral doesn't exist there. True, more money in their pockets means they can afford food for themselves as well as their kids which pushes up prices. And I'm sure private sector workers will eye up the rises enviously, bit without unions they can't follow suit.
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #168 on: June 22, 2022, 05:20:12 pm »
Many more strikes will follow.

Why? Well look at this for teachers (and early years and the care sector are even worse).

Look at the colossal drop in earning compared to the rest of the economy



https://www.ft.com/content/edc85667-9471-4934-920d-f80a8dc83393

It’s all very well asking for pay restraint, in normal times people might be more understanding, but when you’ve fucked people over for well over a decade, it becomes untenable.
The Torys can see it coming as well, they know we maybe heading for another Winter of discontent either this year or next year. the Tory's know the implications, inflation going higher. everyone pissed off with industrial disputes. normally that would mean the public laying the blame of the government. the Torys are already trying to offload the blame onto the Labour party.
This is the first stage, everyone understands why the Unions are banging in for bigger percentage rises. it's about protecting their standard of living from inflation. give it a year and the government will be saying the cause of the inflation is all these wage demands.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #169 on: June 22, 2022, 05:31:53 pm »
Round the bend, nah, just very experienced when it comes to strikes and disputes, disputes may be new to many people on here, we went through them regularly, decades of influence by brilliant Stewards and conveners has left it's mark. I wont nod along and cheer when I think a senior official handled a TV interview badly.
 OK, you asked why I came to the conclusion of it being a car crash for Lynch.
Do you think Lynch was right to defend the Pickets arguing they will encourage people who want to work not to work. is that the right message to send to win public support ?
It's a matter of opinion on whether Lynch remained calm, I think he defiantly got flustered towards the end of the interview turning around looking at the pickets saying does that look like the Miners strike. did people at home understand what he meant by that. ?
The whole point of the interview was to win over public support, many people still think of pickets as something we left behind in the 80s. they are miles apart today but this dispute has been orchestrated by the Torys to make people think back to militant angry trade unionists holding the country to ransom and I don't think Lynch changed their minds much in that interview.

I've highlighted that part of your post because if that was the 'exam' question then I think he certainly achieved that judging by the comments below that video. The comments pretty much unanimously praise him and condemn her for such a piss poor attempt at baiting him, even from some of her 'fans'. I don't think I came across a single negative comment against him and there were a few posts of recognition about the political agenda at play here.

Overall I think the public are behind these workers, probably identifying with the cost of living issues they are facing. I do agree that he could have explained the purpose of picketing better in terms of informing line crossers etc. about the purpose of the strike. However he has had to respond to the most ridiculous attempt at baiting you'll ever see and given this was only a 2 minute 'click bait' interview slot he did really well and certainly hasn't done himself or his members any harm. I've watched the rest of those videos that have been posted and think he's handled those press interviews really well when given the opportunity to provide more detailed answers in the face of some pretty personal attacks.
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #170 on: June 22, 2022, 05:32:00 pm »
I wish the care sector had a strong union. They need a pay rise too.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #171 on: June 22, 2022, 05:45:27 pm »
Sorry no .The more I look at the interview the more I think it's a car crash interview by Lynch.
 "Picketing is about encouraging people who want to go to work not to go to work."
If that was a answer in a exam he would get 5/10.
Picketing is about explaining what the dispute is about and asking for their support by persuading them to support the strike by not crossing the picket line.
Your not just encouraging them not to cross the picket line your convincing them to back the strike, you've convinced them strike action is justified.

I think he got frustrated as he could visualise why Burley was wrong but he couldn't put it into words which is poor.  he looked around and pointed at the pickets as if it proved he was right but he couldn't put it into words, I looked at it and thought the few people standing on todays picket line shows the Union have no intention of physically trying to stop anyone crossing the picket line, if that was the intention then you would have seen hundreds of Strikers standing here today..






Utter twaddle as Big Mick would say.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #172 on: June 22, 2022, 06:10:29 pm »
TSSA have managed to get Merseyrail workers 7.1% (which was the RPI inflation in November 2021).

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseyrail-staff-vote-accept-71-24291585

That is really going to piss the Tories off because that is now the minimum acceptable bar for any other rail trade union in the country

As a TSSA member at TfL I can only pray they get us the same but I won’t hold me breath.
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #173 on: June 22, 2022, 06:16:30 pm »
I wish the care sector had a strong union. They need a pay rise too.
More than any other sector I would suggest
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #174 on: June 22, 2022, 06:27:57 pm »
Utter twaddle as Big Mick would say.

Personally, I’d suggest the Labour Party find whoever does his media training and pay them a fucking fortune to join the Labour Payroll ASAP.
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #175 on: June 22, 2022, 06:34:35 pm »
I've highlighted that part of your post because if that was the 'exam' question then I think he certainly achieved that judging by the comments below that video. The comments pretty much unanimously praise him and condemn her for such a piss poor attempt at baiting him, even from some of her 'fans'. I don't think I came across a single negative comment against him and there were a few posts of recognition about the political agenda at play here.

Overall I think the public are behind these workers, probably identifying with the cost of living issues they are facing. I do agree that he could have explained the purpose of picketing better in terms of informing line crossers etc. about the purpose of the strike. However he has had to respond to the most ridiculous attempt at baiting you'll ever see and given this was only a 2 minute 'click bait' interview slot he did really well and certainly hasn't done himself or his members any harm. I've watched the rest of those videos that have been posted and think he's handled those press interviews really well when given the opportunity to provide more detailed answers in the face of some pretty personal attacks.
That's the reason I gave the exam analogy a mark of 5, he could of  explained the purpose of picketing better,  we're encouraging people who want to work not to work isn't a good way to describe the purpose of picketing.

I think the vast majority of people understand people have the right to strike and I hope the majority don't fall for the shit that will be thrown at the Strikers and by the Torys trying to turn Labour into some s.. stirrers who support militant strikers.
That can only be countered by good arguments to justify the strike and the picketing.
I don't actually think the Torys will try and ferry in agency workers to walk past the pickets, the purpose of this was to create a image which will make people wonder if things will turn nasty when the agency workers try to cross the picket lines, that seemed obvious to me straight away, people would automatically think of the 80s and the Miners strike so this question shouldn't have come as a surprise, it wasn't some unfair baiting question by Burley. to mock her and claim she doesn't understand the purpose of picketing wasn't a good way of handling things, better points could have been made which would have helped the strikers while making the Torys look bad.
So few pickets meant the pickets had no intention of turning things nasty.
The fact you've asked me this question shows just how low this government are going to go with their Propaganda to attack people who are only trying to protect their family's from high inflation.  you can see this picket is nothing like a 80s picket so I ask the public not to fall for the Torys propaganda to try and link us to those days by creating this confrontation scenario in peoples mind.
I really wouldn't be influenced by any of the comments, it's the people sat at home who either have no opinion or a ignorant opinion who your trying to reach.


It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #176 on: June 22, 2022, 07:07:48 pm »
Part of the Tories script moaning about the strikes on TV is ‘they should apologise to the doctors and nurses who are impacted by this’ - let’s see how much solidarity there will be when junior doctors strike next year.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #177 on: June 22, 2022, 07:22:22 pm »
Utter twaddle as Big Mick would say.
Ohh no, your not going to get Big Mick on to me are you.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #178 on: June 22, 2022, 07:23:16 pm »
Labour frontbenchers who joined rail strike pickets pressed to apologise

Quote
Labour frontbenchers who defied Keir Starmer to appear on picket lines have been encouraged to issue public apologies or risk disciplinary action, despite some shadow cabinet members urging the Labour leader to drop the issue.

Several frontbenchers were pictured alongside striking RMT workers on Tuesday, despite explicit instructions from Starmer to stay away.

The Guardian understands some of the rebel MPs involved have been asked to issue a statement explaining their attendance.

One senior party source jokingly suggested a junior frontbencher had been asked to claim they had been “ambushed by a picket line” – a reference to an excuse used to explain Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s attendance at his own birthday party.

Another source, an MP, said the whips were “threatening people at the moment, trying to get them to issue apologies”. It is unclear what the consequences would be if they refused to apologise.

Meanwhile, Starmer is under pressure from some members of his shadow cabinet to drop the threat of disciplinary action.

One shadow minister said it would be “outrageous” to caution, or even sack, Labour MPs for showing solidarity with striking railworkers.

Another shadow cabinet member suggested it had been the right decision to encourage MPs to stay away from the frontline of the strikes, as Labour tries to look like a future government – but wrong to turn it into a show of strength.

No final decision is expected to be made about how to handle the errant MPs until after this week’s RMT strikes are over.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/22/labour-frontbenchers-who-joined-rail-strike-pickets-pressed-to-apologise-by-keir-starmer

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #179 on: June 22, 2022, 07:35:41 pm »
Starmer utterly spineless here. It brings me absolutely no joy as someone who wants to see a Labour government although the one bit of humour to take from it are the people here tying themselves in knots to defend the indefensible. Who are Labour supposed to be representing if not the working class? Apologising for joining a picket line, ffs.

Mick Lynch was absolutely brilliant yesterday. I hope he fancies a future in the Labour party although unfortunately his type probably wouldn't be welcome anymore.

What happened to the Labour party thread? Was busy enough when Corbyn was leader.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 07:39:23 pm by alonsoisared »

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #180 on: June 22, 2022, 07:42:12 pm »
What happened to the Labour party thread? Was busy enough when Corbyn was leader.
Locked, I believe. I am not sure about the reasons, as I was off here for a few months at the time.
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #181 on: June 22, 2022, 07:47:00 pm »
I understand Starmer's reasons for requiring shadow ministers to keep off the picket lines. But on the other hand, he should not be requiring them to 'apologise' for doing so. After all, although they ignored his instructions and and may not be playing this smartly, there is nothing inherently wrong with what they did and thus requiring an apology. What would be reasonable is to tell them privately that if they again ignore his instructions, this will likely affect their position/role come the next reshuffle.
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Offline ljycb

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #182 on: June 22, 2022, 08:08:58 pm »
I understand Starmer's reasons for requiring shadow ministers to keep off the picket lines. But on the other hand, he should not be requiring them to 'apologise' for doing so. After all, although they ignored his instructions and and may not be playing this smartly, there is nothing inherently wrong with what they did and thus requiring an apology. What would be reasonable is to tell them privately that if they again ignore his instructions, this will likely affect their position/role come the next reshuffle.

Could it be that Starmer thinks making his front benchers apologise publicly is seen as something which gains Labour more support (in the face of accusations by the government of Labour being chief instigators of the strikes)? Given Starmer has said in the past that he is a trade unionist, surely he is not asking people to apologise because he fundamentally disagrees with them joining the picket line?

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #183 on: June 22, 2022, 08:11:26 pm »
Starmer utterly spineless here. It brings me absolutely no joy as someone who wants to see a Labour government although the one bit of humour to take from it are the people here tying themselves in knots to defend the indefensible. Who are Labour supposed to be representing if not the working class? Apologising for joining a picket line, ffs.

Mick Lynch was absolutely brilliant yesterday. I hope he fancies a future in the Labour party although unfortunately his type probably wouldn't be welcome anymore.

What happened to the Labour party thread? Was busy enough when Corbyn was leader.

The Labour Party thread must have been a nightmare to moderate, particularly in the immediate post-Corbyn years. I do wonder when enough time will have passed for a new one to be opened. Possibly never.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #184 on: June 22, 2022, 08:21:07 pm »
Locked, I believe. I am not sure about the reasons, as I was off here for a few months at the time.

The thread was locked, as it was as toxic, as Woodison was for most of last season, was a nightmare to moderate for the staff.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #185 on: June 22, 2022, 08:37:21 pm »
FML just seen a colleague of mine (with over 35 years of service at TfL and LUL) criticise the strikers on Facebook for being ungrateful to the government considering the support during the pandemic. Obviously he’ll happily pick up his nice final salary pension the unions are fighting for the rest of us to keep  :butt
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #186 on: June 22, 2022, 09:39:11 pm »
Part of the Tories script moaning about the strikes on TV is ‘they should apologise to the doctors and nurses who are impacted by this’ - let’s see how much solidarity there will be when junior doctors strike next year.
They really have got a script haven’t they! “Doctors! nurses! ….and don’t forget to mention armed forces day.”

If Labour had any nouse they’d shine a very bright light on ‘the script’. Make the Tories look like the vacuous, predictable, two-faced dickheads they are. I can’t fathom how the entire country isn’t sick to the back teeth of these twats yet. Labour needs a whole load more Mick Lynch’s. A working man unafraid to repeatedly and effortlessly take the absolute royal piss out of these lot live on telly. I bet they absolutely detest him!

Offline John C

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #187 on: June 22, 2022, 10:22:14 pm »

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #188 on: June 22, 2022, 10:42:25 pm »
Mad by Starmer. He is pretty shit.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #189 on: June 22, 2022, 11:18:44 pm »
Could it be that Starmer thinks making his front benchers apologise publicly is seen as something which gains Labour more support (in the face of accusations by the government of Labour being chief instigators of the strikes)? Given Starmer has said in the past that he is a trade unionist, surely he is not asking people to apologise because he fundamentally disagrees with them joining the picket line?
Starmer is too scared. He is overthinking this. He needs to lead! I feel similarly about this to when to he three-line whipped the PLP to vote for the Brexit deal instead of abstaining. He ran scared then too instead of disassociating the Labour Party with the Brexit mess to come. Frankly, it is time for a new leader. Someone with more balls, like Jess Phillips.
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Offline ljycb

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #190 on: June 22, 2022, 11:46:36 pm »
Starmer is too scared. He is overthinking this. He needs to lead! I feel similarly about this to when to he three-line whipped the PLP to vote for the Brexit deal instead of abstaining. He ran scared then too instead of disassociating the Labour Party with the Brexit mess to come. Frankly, it is time for a new leader. Someone with more balls, like Jess Phillips.

The thing is - you can take a much firmer position than Starmer is without necessarily having to (for want of a better phrase) pick a side. I am an idealist, so I would personally love to see the Labour leader on the picket line and making no apologies for it, but if the idea is that backing the strikes would turn off certain people whose votes you need, then something along the lines of what (and I am by no means his biggest fan) Wes Streeting said on BBC Question Time earlier this month would surely be better?

Quote
“Look, put it this way, if I were a member of the RMT and my jobs were at risk like this then I would be voting to go on strike and I would be voting to defend my job, terms and conditions.

“If I were a government minister right now, it’s not my job to be on the picket line, it’s not my job to be condemning unions – it’s my job to solve the problem, to get people around the table, to make sure passengers aren’t inconvenienced.”


https://labourlist.org/2022/06/if-i-were-an-rmt-member-i-would-be-voting-to-go-on-strike-streeting-says/

I appreciate that it's all well and good talking a good game when you're not in the hot seat, and we have seen with Starmer that he has went more and more into his shell since becoming the leader, probably because it's a f*cking difficult job, but I don't think what he is trying to do is going to work.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #191 on: June 22, 2022, 11:48:08 pm »
Starmers being an idiot and appealing to twats who will never vote for him and alienating those who would've traditionally voted for Labour.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #192 on: June 23, 2022, 12:26:50 am »
I've sent the following to my former Labour MP

Hello Laura,


Having watched the drama / documentary Sherwood, it indicated that papers under the 30 year rule are now made available to the public.

I'm looking specifically for those cabinet papers that indicate the following took place. "The ridley report, they wanted to change the political landscape of this country away from collectivism towards deregulated forces"

In order to achieve it to 'provoke a strike in nationalised industries'

Could you please direct me to find these papers, as I’d like to educate myself and perhaps help our cause.

Kind regards,

Alex

The purpose for this is simple, i wish to shine a light on history in order to create a message that the Torys will not change.

I'll fight all the propaganda with evidence, so i'd welcome any help in finding these cabinet transcripts.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #193 on: June 23, 2022, 12:34:22 am »
The thing is - you can take a much firmer position than Starmer is without necessarily having to (for want of a better phrase) pick a side. I am an idealist, so I would personally love to see the Labour leader on the picket line and making no apologies for it, but if the idea is that backing the strikes would turn off certain people whose votes you need, then something along the lines of what (and I am by no means his biggest fan) Wes Streeting said on BBC Question Time earlier this month would surely be better?

I appreciate that it's all well and good talking a good game when you're not in the hot seat, and we have seen with Starmer that he has went more and more into his shell since becoming the leader, probably because it's a f*cking difficult job, but I don't think what he is trying to do is going to work.

Streeting subsequently apologised for that at a Shadow Cabinet meeting.

Starmer ally Wes Streeting apologises after backing union over rail strikes

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/starmer-ally-wes-streeting-sorry-for-backing-union-over-rail-strikes-sdq8n53pj

Spoiler
A senior member of Sir Keir Starmer’s front bench was forced to apologise after he endorsed next week’s rail strikes.

Wes Streeting, the shadow health secretary, apologised at a shadow cabinet meeting after he expressed sympathy for workers on Question Time last Thursday. Streeting, who is touted as a potential successor to Starmer, said he would prefer it if the strikes did not take place but that he would have voted for industrial action if he were a member of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers.

“I would be voting to defend my job, terms and conditions,” he said. “[If] you think you’re about to lose your job overnight . . . of course they’re fighting for their terms and conditions.”

Streeting apologised for overstepping the mark at the meeting this week, Labour sources said. Allies insisted, however, that the former NUS president only apologised for the bad publicity that resulted from the remarks.

“Wes fully supports what Keir Starmer and Louise Haigh [the shadow transport secretary] have said on the strikes,” a source close to Streeting said. “He doesn’t believe his comments on Question Time contradict them in any way.”

Labour’s official line is to criticise the government for not negotiating with the unions — a position that which some party figures fear will not hold for much longer as Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson seeks to capitalise on Starmer’s equivocation over the strikes.

The industrial action is being brought by the RMT union in a dispute over pay and redundancies and will take place on 21, 23 and 25 June.

At prime minister’s questions, Johnson attacked Starmer for not criticising the unions and accused members of the shadow cabinet of “sitting on their hands” and siding with “union barons”.

Starmer responded by accusing No 10 of trying to leverage the strikes to distract voters from other issues. “I don’t want the strikes to go ahead. He [Johnson] does so he can feed on the division,” he said.

Later in the day, Johnson forced a non-binding vote challenging Starmer to condemn the industrial action which will cripple the network for three days next week. Labour officially abstained but 13 left-wing members of the party rebelled to vote against the motion with Jeremy Corbyn, the former Labour leader.

During the debate, one Labour MP said he was proud to have received £5,000 in donations from the RMT union.

Ian Lavery, the MP for Wansbeck, said he had received support from the union at the 2019 election, adding: “Anybody reading the right-wing press over the weekend would have thought that this was something to be ashamed of. Well I want to tell everyone in this House quite clearly that I am not ashamed of it, I am extremely proud of it.”

He made the comments after John McDonnell, the former shadow chancellor, warned that the UK was “going back to the 80s”.

“What happened then was that there was a government will to somehow take on the trade union movement and we got described as the enemy within. If anyone thinks that politically it’s to their advantage to start taking RMT on as the enemy within this situation they’re… mistaken. Because it isn’t just about RMT. At every union conference I’ve been to there’s a real anxiety.”

Grant Shapps, the transport secretary, urged Labour to “put people above their party coffers”. He said Starmer was “hopelessly contorted”, with “one foot in the RMT camp and the other goodness knows where”.
[close]

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #194 on: June 23, 2022, 12:53:28 am »
I've sent the following to my former Labour MP

Hello Laura,


Having watched the drama / documentary Sherwood, it indicated that papers under the 30 year rule are now made available to the public.

I'm looking specifically for those cabinet papers that indicate the following took place. "The ridley report, they wanted to change the political landscape of this country away from collectivism towards deregulated forces"

In order to achieve it to 'provoke a strike in nationalised industries'

Could you please direct me to find these papers, as I’d like to educate myself and perhaps help our cause.

Kind regards,

Alex

The purpose for this is simple, i wish to shine a light on history in order to create a message that the Torys will not change.

I'll fight all the propaganda with evidence, so i'd welcome any help in finding these cabinet transcripts.

This is the Ridley Report

https://c59574e9047e61130f13-3f71d0fe2b653c4f00f32175760e96e7.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/FABEA1F4BFA64CB398DFA20D8B8B6C98.pdf

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #195 on: June 23, 2022, 12:58:02 am »
This is the Ridley Report

https://c59574e9047e61130f13-3f71d0fe2b653c4f00f32175760e96e7.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/FABEA1F4BFA64CB398DFA20D8B8B6C98.pdf

Thanks mate, i'm looking for direct quotes where the cabinet discussed "provoking a strike in the nationalised industries"

Can you help me find those? As we can nail these bastards to the walls with those quotes...

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #196 on: June 23, 2022, 12:59:52 am »
Thanks mate, i'm looking for direct quotes where the cabinet discussed "provoking a strike in the nationalised industries"

Can you help me find those? As we can nail these bastards to the walls with those quotes...

This will be in the mix from the documents released under the 30 year rule. Now Maggie is gone...what a wonderful co-incidence.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #197 on: June 23, 2022, 01:29:25 am »
Streeting subsequently apologised for that at a Shadow Cabinet meeting.

Suppose I can understand why. It’s like Jürgen asking Robertson to stay on the touchline and stretch the opponent, but instead he keeps coming short demanding the ball. If Starmer and his team think the best approach is to not get drawn into it, then I suppose he needs to at least rely on his Shadow Cabinet to stick to that approach. Even so, I just don’t agree with it. I think the people who Starmer is trying to attract can see through it. Or maybe he’s just banking at this point on victory by virtue of the government being in such a catastrophic mess? We’ll see.

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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #198 on: June 23, 2022, 05:41:11 am »
Suppose I can understand why. It’s like Jürgen asking Robertson to stay on the touchline and stretch the opponent, but instead he keeps coming short demanding the ball. If Starmer and his team think the best approach is to not get drawn into it, then I suppose he needs to at least rely on his Shadow Cabinet to stick to that approach. Even so, I just don’t agree with it. I think the people who Starmer is trying to attract can see through it. Or maybe he’s just banking at this point on victory by virtue of the government being in such a catastrophic mess? We’ll see.

Except Starmer is inferior to Jurgen in almost every way.

I think thats become obvious now.  Hes relying on picking up votes against the Government rather than wining his own
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Re: Do you support the rail strikes?
« Reply #199 on: June 23, 2022, 05:46:41 am »
Starmer is too scared. He is overthinking this. He needs to lead! I feel similarly about this to when to he three-line whipped the PLP to vote for the Brexit deal instead of abstaining. He ran scared then too instead of disassociating the Labour Party with the Brexit mess to come. Frankly, it is time for a new leader. Someone with more balls, like Jess Phillips.

He is still the best candidate right now for the job (despite my comment) but thus far his leadership has been defined by him not really standing for anything and being swayed whichever way the wind blows. Sometimes you have to let the government hang itself but you can see why his personal ratings are all a bit meh, he just doesnt give you any reason himself to vote for him.