Author Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)  (Read 371165 times)

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1840 on: November 15, 2016, 09:53:12 pm »
How many times have we had to tell you to stop growing marijuana Geoff.

Enough!

funny enough walked into an art room today and teacher said what does that smell remind you of and i just said the Sixties and walked back out, oh and the only shit on my plot is manure.
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Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1841 on: November 15, 2016, 10:08:39 pm »
funny enough walked into an art room today and teacher said what does that smell remind you of and i just said the Sixties and walked back out, oh and the only shit on my plot is manure.
;D
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Offline thisyearisouryear

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1842 on: December 10, 2016, 06:25:44 am »
WTF! Please tell me there is at least a little exaggeration in here. Few highlights:
Quote
There could be just two years left before the North Pole disappears
Quote
Over the past few weeks the temperature of the North Pole has been 22 degrees hotter than the average temperature for this time of year.

Full article:
http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/there-could-be-just-two-years-left-before-the-north-pole-disappears/news-story/80111828cd33bdb2b24ca0540013a70e

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1843 on: December 10, 2016, 06:08:49 pm »
WTF! Please tell me there is at least a little exaggeration in here. Few highlights:
Full article:
http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/there-could-be-just-two-years-left-before-the-north-pole-disappears/news-story/80111828cd33bdb2b24ca0540013a70e


Peter Wadhams, the professor who's making this prediction, is kind of on his own on this one. Though if I remember correctly, his prediction is not that the whole of the Arctic could be ice free in the summer in two years' time, but central Arctic only which means you'd be able to cross over the North pole by ship. He still expects there to be ice in other areas of the Arctic. Other scientists are quite sceptical, and some have pointed out that such extreme predictions are unhelpful as contrarians tend to jump on them to try and discredit the whole field of climate science

What's happening in the Arctic is quite extraordinary at the moment, and no one knows what it means. It could well be a blip and we'll have a return to normal next year. Or it could be something more serious. It seems that it's a consequence of Arctic warming - the Arctic is warming faster than the equator, and this lowering of the temperature gradient has made the Jet Stream wavier. So at this moment, there is a large wave that's drawing warm air from lower latitudes to the Arctic, which explains the temperature anomalies we're seeing. In turn this is having an impact on ice formation, and this could end up in accelerated warming. At this moment, no one really knows. We'll have to wait and see, and hope for the best. Arctic experts are worried by what they're seeing but they just don't know what's going to happen next. Certainly the length of this warm spell is exceptional.

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1844 on: December 10, 2016, 09:28:48 pm »
funny enough walked into an art room today and teacher said what does that smell remind you of and i just said the Sixties and walked back out, oh and the only shit on my plot is manure.
Do they train there or something ? 



Offline Zeb

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1845 on: December 24, 2016, 08:49:16 am »
Quote
Temperatures at the North Pole could be up to 20 degrees higher than average this Christmas Eve, in what scientists say is a record-breaking heatwave.

Climate scientists say these unseasonably warm weather patterns in the Arctic region are directly linked to man-made climate change.
Temperatures throughout November and December were 5C higher than average.

It follows a summer during which Arctic sea ice reached the second-lowest extent ever recorded by satellites.Dr Friederike Otto, a senior researcher at Oxford's Environmental Change Institute told BBC News that in pre-industrial times "a heatwave like this would have been extremely rare - we would expect it to occur about every 1,000 years".

Dr Otto added that scientists are "very confident" that the weather patterns were linked to anthropogenic climate change.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38417198

We're loading the dice for some pretty shitty things over the coming decades.
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Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1846 on: December 24, 2016, 04:38:46 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38417198

We're loading the dice for some pretty shitty things over the coming decades.

Sadly, for future generations, it's almost certainly too late. It's highly likely that numerous positive feedback systems are already established and the "tipping point" has been reached.
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1847 on: December 24, 2016, 04:41:13 pm »
Sadly, for future generations, it's almost certainly too late. It's highly likely that numerous positive feedback systems are already established and the "tipping point" has been reached.
well.... there are things we could do if we have gone past the tipping point..

Aerosols of calcium carbonate are being proposed ... not ideal and difficult to control, but I think we are past having any control over this....
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1848 on: December 24, 2016, 05:56:41 pm »
I've heard that the ice at the north pole is failing to reform during polar night?  I'm not sure the context of that, or whether we're looking at our first ice free summer in 2017 though.
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Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1849 on: December 24, 2016, 05:58:46 pm »
I've heard that the ice at the north pole is failing to reform during polar night?  I'm not sure the context of that, or whether we're looking at our first ice free summer in 2017 though.

This is one of the positive feedback loops that will drive increased warming and as a result speed up climate change. Ice reflects sunlight back and helps regulate the earth's temperature.
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Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1850 on: December 24, 2016, 10:47:26 pm »
For those on Twitter I'd recommend following Zack Labe - he posts regular updates on what's happening in the Arctic as well as Antarctica. It's worrying to see many Arctic specialists concerned about what's happening there right now.

Offline Sindri

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1851 on: December 25, 2016, 01:50:54 am »
I remember a few years ago some climate change denying US politician said global warming was a scam and the fact Iceland was having a cold winter proved that. Well Iceland is currently having its warmest fall and winter on records(records go back 150years). We literally had our first snow this week. And November and early desember tempetures where more like what you'd expect in may or august then middle of winter. Can't imagine what these temps must have been doing to our neighbours Greenland and the North Pole.

Offline Trada

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1852 on: December 25, 2016, 06:40:42 am »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1853 on: December 25, 2016, 09:57:39 am »


Well for once he makes a point.  Well, half a point.
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Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1854 on: December 25, 2016, 10:16:49 am »
Well for once he makes a point.  Well, half a point.

Talking about himself
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1855 on: December 26, 2016, 03:22:28 pm »

Sounds like the kind of threat Kim wrong un would make... 

Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1856 on: December 26, 2016, 06:48:51 pm »
Talking about himself, in the third person.*

Yep.  Deffo sounds fully compos mentis to me.  Yes sireee.   ::)




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Offline thejbs

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1857 on: December 27, 2016, 01:38:34 am »
I remember a few years ago some climate change denying US politician said global warming was a scam and the fact Iceland was having a cold winter proved that. Well Iceland is currently having its warmest fall and winter on records(records go back 150years). We literally had our first snow this week. And November and early desember tempetures where more like what you'd expect in may or august then middle of winter. Can't imagine what these temps must have been doing to our neighbours Greenland and the North Pole.

That's crazy. I've been in Iceland in oct and November in recent years and gotten snow.

Offline Sindri

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1858 on: December 27, 2016, 03:44:12 pm »
That's crazy. I've been in Iceland in oct and November in recent years and gotten snow.
The grass in my yard is green at the moment. The first snow lasted a whopping 4days in Reykjavík and melted to reveal green grass. Grass that should have been yellow and dead in october(Iceland doesn't play home international games between November-April cause you can't really play on grass those months). It's pretty much the first time I've seen huge signs of climate change and it's scary as hell.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1859 on: December 28, 2016, 07:56:01 pm »
Any chance Derek can come back and whip his graphs out?
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Offline lfcderek

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1860 on: December 29, 2016, 10:03:07 am »
Any chance Derek can come back and whip his graphs out?
OK, Ok.  I know my views are not exactly the most popular on here but there really is no need to get SO personal.

I'd planned to post an update in early Feb when the whole of 2016 data will be in (Giss & Hadcrut4 are a month behind) but I'll wait till the 2nd/3rd Jan when the satellite series report and project the others.

I have been doing a bit of digging around on the Urban Heat Island effect again and will try and post some interesting graphs and projections from that. It's all from a few cities/rural stations in the USA and was published a while back in the 'Sceptical' press so needs a careful evaluation (as always!!). Would love to find the time (and data!!) to do something similar on UK data.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 03:47:37 pm by lfcderek »
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1861 on: December 29, 2016, 03:58:10 pm »
Soooo

The data doesn't fit even your oddly scaled graphs anymore... so the data must be dodgy?

Happy days.
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Offline lfcderek

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1862 on: December 30, 2016, 08:53:43 am »
Soooo

The data doesn't fit even your oddly scaled graphs anymore... so the data must be dodgy?

Happy days.

Que?
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Offline lfcderek

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1863 on: December 31, 2016, 12:06:16 pm »
Soooo

The data doesn't fit even your oddly scaled graphs anymore... so the data must be dodgy?

Happy days.

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What he mean Mr  Fawlty? I worried I do wrong. He say my giraffes are odd.
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You, almost certainly, made a cock-up of downloading all that data.
And, as for the calculations of the projections, well, to be brutally honest here,
you do have a lot of difficulty in understanding the very concept of numbers bigger than 9.

Look, he's probably done all of this properly, and will put up his own graphs for us
to compare them to".


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Offline Redman0151

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1864 on: December 31, 2016, 12:24:27 pm »
Derek, even if you're going to try twist data again, do you really think its worth the risk that you're wrong? Heading towards renewable energy is good for society regardless of climate change
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1865 on: December 31, 2016, 12:29:20 pm »
There is a strong case for renewables because hydrocarbons are the sources of most plastics and polymers. Just burning a finite valuable chemical resource us foolhardy. The global climate catastrophe bit just reinforces the point.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1866 on: December 31, 2016, 03:14:53 pm »
There is a strong case for renewables because hydrocarbons are the sources of most plastics and polymers. Just burning a finite valuable chemical resource us foolhardy. The global climate catastrophe bit just reinforces the point.
Even if CO2 were no issue at all, the case for stopping burning hydrocarbons would be utterly overwhelming for that very reason.

As a chemical feedstock they are incredibly important.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 03:19:39 pm by Crappie Kenneth »
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1867 on: December 31, 2016, 03:50:06 pm »
18 months ago I got fed up with being accused of being a liar.
June is the last month for which there is data available.

And Yes - I give up.
Soooo

The data doesn't fit even your oddly scaled graphs anymore... so the data must be dodgy?

Happy days.
Derek, even if you're going to try twist data again, do you really think its worth the risk that you're wrong? Heading towards renewable energy is good for society regardless of climate change
So OK  lads and lasses. You've won.

I really do give up.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1868 on: January 1, 2017, 12:30:22 am »
There is a strong case for renewables because hydrocarbons are the sources of most plastics and polymers. Just burning a finite valuable chemical resource us foolhardy. The global climate catastrophe bit just reinforces the point.

Exactly. I've been making this case to "conservatives" (polite way of saying Breitbart-reading nutcase) to avoid getting tangled up in their CC-denying knots, and they decided to turn it into a ridiculous battle of semantics, saying that fossil fuels are renewable because they come from decayed animal matter, etc. Sure, it takes 65 million years, but there is a huge number of animals that died 64,999,999 years ago, 64,999,998 years ago, etc., so there should be no issue with supply keeping up with demand. And furthermore, all this panic over CO2 is ridiculous - trees breathe CO2, it is clearly not toxic. Because us lefty loonies apparently believe that CO2 is a poison to all living things at all concentrations.

Yes, these are actual conversations with purportedly sentient organisms...
« Last Edit: January 1, 2017, 12:38:38 am by GreatEx »

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1869 on: January 1, 2017, 03:18:27 pm »
Exactly. I've been making this case to "conservatives" (polite way of saying Breitbart-reading nutcase) to avoid getting tangled up in their CC-denying knots, and they decided to turn it into a ridiculous battle of semantics, saying that fossil fuels are renewable because they come from decayed animal matter, etc. Sure, it takes 65 million years, but there is a huge number of animals that died 64,999,999 years ago, 64,999,998 years ago, etc., so there should be no issue with supply keeping up with demand. And furthermore, all this panic over CO2 is ridiculous - trees breathe CO2, it is clearly not toxic. Because us lefty loonies apparently believe that CO2 is a poison to all living things at all concentrations.

Yes, these are actual conversations with purportedly sentient organisms...

Sounds familiar. And it's a problem whenever people's ideologies or world views are the starting point for discussing scientific issues. Post-modernism has a lot to answer for in that respect and I don't see it getting any better any time soon.


Offline Crumble

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1871 on: January 2, 2017, 10:47:24 am »
I really do give up.


Please don't give up.

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1872 on: January 2, 2017, 11:33:09 am »
I highly recommend watching the highly depressing new season of Years of Living Dangerously...

*Ad-block will have to be disabled to see these.
** If you intend on seeing just one episode to determine whether you want to watch more, then I think you should watch episode 5.

Episode 1:
https://openload.co/f/tdtjtEMeDl4/Years.Of.Living.Dangerously.S02E01.HDTV.x264-eSc.mp4

Episode 2:
https://openload.co/f/LmTeDyXka0Y

Episode 3:
https://openload.co/f/orKij3TljJ4/Years.Of.Living.Dangerously.S02E03.720p.WEB-DL.x264-eSc.mp4

Episode 4:
https://openload.co/f/nD6n52blX-g/years.of.living.dangerously.s02e04.720p.hdtv.x264-crooks.mkv

Episode 5:
https://openload.co/f/6AZYKYdBE7Q/Years.Of.Living.Dangerously.S02E05.WEB-DL.x264-eSc.mp4

Episode 6:
https://openload.co/f/YkSOaoICdUA/years.of.living.dangerously.s02e06.hdtv.x264-crooks.mp4

Episode 7:
https://openload.co/f/unctBfkjC2c/years.of.living.dangerously.s02e07.720p.hdtv.x264-crooks.mkv

Episode 8:
https://openload.co/f/o8DcfP2-Va0/Years.Of.Living.Dangerously.S02E08.720p.WEB.x264-PJ219.mp4

Thank you, you're a star! I watched the first series but haven't got round to watching the second. It'll keep me going between matches.

Offline zebenzui

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1873 on: January 3, 2017, 08:30:10 pm »


Watched a few episodes from season 1, where evangelicals climate skeptics featured a lot. I know we aren't supposed to think this about the 'other side', but what a bunch of absolute morons - if they're the ones we have to convince to save the planet we're fucked.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1874 on: January 4, 2017, 02:44:15 pm »
Watched a few episodes from season 1, where evangelicals climate skeptics featured a lot. I know we aren't supposed to think this about the 'other side', but what a bunch of absolute morons - if they're the ones we have to convince to save the planet we're fucked.
I feel what you're saying but in large part individual citizens can be bypassed on the way to implementing green energy solutions.
The problem comes when politicians are either elbow deep in oil money or extremely close-minded on this issue.
Trump's cabinet is probably both, which is why this incoming administration of the most energy-hungry country in the world is so frightening.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1875 on: January 4, 2017, 03:47:17 pm »
I saw a couple of those Years of Living Dangerously episodes which were quite enjoyable even with the cringing stars showing up in them ...there for a purpose of course so hats off and some of the stuff is eye opening. The hurdles put in front of the solar companies operating in FL and Texas by oiled backed senators was one of the wtf moments. While there may be a bit more to the story than what we saw the constant dragging of feet by those in power since the 70s is frustrating. The impact of humans on Earth will probably lead to our downfall and unfortunately we will take millions of other species with it but eventually the planet will rebound when we will be long gone.
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1876 on: January 5, 2017, 01:31:33 pm »
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1877 on: January 5, 2017, 01:38:51 pm »
Climate change: Fresh doubt over global warming 'pause'
By Matt McGrath Environment correspondent

    5 January 2017
 



A controversial study that found there has been no slowdown in global warming has been supported by new research.

Many researchers had accepted that the rate of global warming had slowed in the first 15 years of this century.

But new analysis in the journal Science Advances replicates findings that scientists have underestimated ocean temperatures over the past two decades.

With the revised data the apparent pause in temperature rises between 1998 and 2014 disappears.

The idea of a pause had gained support in recent years with even the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reporting in 2013 that the global surface temperature "has shown a much smaller increasing linear trend over the past 15 years than over the past 30 to 60 years".

But that consensus was brought into question by a number of studies, of which a report by the the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa) published in Science last year was the most significant.

Researchers from Noaa suggested that the temperatures of the oceans were being consistently underestimated by the main global climate models.

The authors showed that the ocean buoys used to measure sea temperatures tend to report slightly cooler temperatures than the older ship-based systems.

Back in the 1990s, ship measurements made up the vast majority of the data, whereas now the more accurate and consistent buoys account for 85% of measurements.
Image copyright Zeke Hausfather
Image caption The new analysis of buoy and satellite data shows that ocean temperatures have increased steadily since the 1990s

When the researchers corrected the data to take this "cold bias" into account, they concluded that the oceans had warmed 0.12C per decade since 2000, nearly twice as fast as previous estimates of 0.07 degrees.

As a result, the authors said that the warming experienced in the first 15 years of the 21st Century was "virtually indistinguishable" from the rate of warming between 1950-99, a time generally acknowledged to have seen significant rates of warming from human emissions of CO2.

The study did not go down well with climate sceptics. Members of the US House of Representatives subpoenaed the author's emails which Noaa refused to hand over.

However, this new analysis supports the findings of the Noaa report. The scientists involved believe the problems in the original temperature estimates for the oceans came from attempting to mesh together data from ships and buoys.

"Only a small fraction of the ocean measurement data is being used by climate monitoring groups, and they are trying to smush together data from different instruments, which leads to a lot of judgement calls about how you weight one versus the other, and how you adjust for the transition from one to another," said Zeke Hausfather, the new paper's lead author.

Hausfather and colleagues decided to put together three independent data sets from satellites, buoys and robotic floats to find the true scale of ocean warming, so there was no mixing or matching of data.

"Our approach was to create three separate ocean temperature records from the three different instruments, and it turns out that all three agree really well with the new Noaa record," he said.

"The conclusion is that Noaa got it right, the scientists at Noaa were not cooking the books or manipulating the data in any way and that three independent sets of data back up their results."

The controversy that surrounded the original paper proved a strong motivation for attempting to replicate the findings says another author, Dr Kevin Cowtan from the University of York.

"We were initially sceptical of the Noaa result, because it showed faster warming than a previous updated record from the UK Met Office. So we set out to test it for ourselves, using different methods and different data. We now think Noaa got it right, and a new dataset from the Japan Meteorological Agency also agrees."

The new study is unlikely to quieten sceptics but the authors say their new work shows that the rate of warming in the last two decades is no different from the rate of warming since 1970 or from 1950.

As for attempts by politicians to subpoena emails in an attempt to suggest that scientists are committing fraud, the idea gets short shrift from the new paper's authors.

"If people disagree with things they should ask other scientists to look into it rather than demanding access to scientists' emails," said Zeke Hausfather.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38513740
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1878 on: January 5, 2017, 02:50:42 pm »
One day, Derek, I dream of you not beginning all your graphs at 1998.  You know what effect El Nino had that year.  This is what I mean about you often being disingenuous with your presentation of the data.  Go further back.
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #1879 on: January 5, 2017, 08:43:40 pm »
One day, Derek, I dream of you not beginning all your graphs at 1998.  You know what effect El Nino had that year.  This is what I mean about you often being disingenuous with your presentation of the data.  Go further back.
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