Author Topic: UK General Election - Mordaunt, Mogg and Mad Liz all gone - STARMERGEDDON  (Read 284857 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7320 on: June 23, 2024, 11:00:23 am »
In other news, Frottage morphs into Jeremy Corbyn

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/23/senior-tories-line-up-to-denounce-nigel-Frottages-defence-of-putins-war

Senior Tories line up to denounce Nigel Frottage’s defence of Putin’s war

Rishi Sunak and a string of senior Conservatives have condemned Nigel Frottage for claiming the west provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine, amid a growing internal Tory battle over how to deal with the Reform UK leader.

The prime minister accused Frottage of playing “into Putin’s hands” after he made the claim in a BBC Panorama interview on Friday, in which he linked Nato and EU expansion to the conflict in eastern Europe. Tom Tugendhat, the security minister went further, telling the Observer: “It doesn’t matter whether you’re Jeremy Corbyn or Nigel Frottage – if you parrot the Kremlin’s lies, you cannot be trusted with our national security.”

Home secretary James Cleverly also criticised the comments, adding that Frottage wanted to “destroy our party”. Ben Wallace, a former defence secretary, described Frottage as a “pub bore”. Labour leader Keir Starmer also condemned Frottage’s comments as “disgraceful”.

The Tories are desperate to halt the huge threat Reform UK poses to them, in some scenarios reducing their seats in the next parliament to below 100. The latest Opinium poll for the Observer gives Labour a 20-point lead over the Tories. It shows Reform only four points behind the Conservatives, on 16% of the vote

“Clear blue water still exists between the Conservatives and Reform, but Rishi Sunak will balk at a quarter of 2019 Tory voters backing Nigel Frottage’s party,” said James Crouch, head of policy and public affairs at Opinium.

The comments from Frottage were also seized upon by the Conservatives’ liberal wing, who fear that figures on the right of the party will encourage him to join the Tories after the election. “This is a very revealing comment showing the mask slipping,” said Damian Green, chair of the One Nation caucus. “Showing sympathy for a murderous tyrant who has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people is not the position of a mainstream democratic politician.”

There is a huge split aperson that I find irritating the Tories over Frottage – part of a wider battle over the direction of the party, which is set to burst into the open the moment the election campaign is over. Some senior Conservatives fear the party could break in two, especially if a new leader opens the door to Frottage joining. One former cabinet minister said he now feared “a fissure” after the election.

Tories on the liberal wing are concerned that in the heat of a leadership election, the main candidates may feel compelled to commit to allowing Frottage in to appease the party membership. Tory moderates have been largely holding their tongues during the campaign, which has seen the Conservatives focus on immigration to unite the right vote. That tactic was brutally undermined by Frottage’s re-entry as Reform UK’s leader.

Moderate MPs say they have been concentrating on limiting the damage with local campaigning and trying to keep the party in the centre ground as far as possible. They have also been examining what the party may look like after the election based on current polling and are confident that “no matter what the outcome”, the party can be stopped from lurching to the right in opposition.

Some senior figures have been particularly worried about the party’s lack of appeal to young voters, which was already evident but may have been exacerbated by policies such as the return of national service, designed to appeal to older voters considering a vote for Reform UK.

With less than a fortnight to polling day, morale in the party’s campaign has also taken a huge hit over two issues. Firstly, the revelations that three people linked to the Conservatives are subject to Gambling Commission inquiries over alleged betting relating to the election date has caused serious anger.

With candidates braced for further revelations, Sunak has refused to disclose how many Tories are under investigation. The party has said it will not “give a running commentary”, but it has led to ministers and candidates being asked about the inquiry during the crucial last weeks of the campaign. Sunak has said that anyone found to have broken the rules would “not only face the full consequences of the law but I will ensure that they are booted out of the Conservative Party, too”.

The second issue to hit morale has been the re­allocation of resources at Conservative campaign headquarters to defend safer seats, apparently now considered marginal according to the latest polling. It has led to some internal concerns about giving up swathes of the so-called red wall captured by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson in 2019, though the accusation is rejected by the party.

Money is also said to be an issue. Some Tory candidates have said they have struggled for resources, while some regular donors have opted to sit out the 2024 contest. A fund­raising event at London’s exclusive Hurlingham Club last week took place without the prime minister, who instead sent a video message. The star turn of the evening was business secretary Kemi Badenoch, seen as a frontrunner for the leadership should the Tories crash to defeat. Several major donors did attend the event.
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Offline Statto Red

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7321 on: June 23, 2024, 11:04:03 am »
155 is worse than 1997, but it is literally their best outcome under the current polling. That should terrifying them.

Are you saying that without direction from Tory central office the right wing media aren't sure what stories to run with or who to attack? Sounds like the whole rotten carcass has collapsed in on itself.

155 would be one of the worst results ever posted by the Tories [certainly in their modern form] at an election, 155 would be worse [by one] than the wipeout in 1906, current polls are predicting that's the best outcome they can hope for, with just 11 days before the election, can't ever remember the Tories polling this bad this close to a general election before, even in the run up to 97 they were polling around the 28% mark.

Incidentally the PM lost his seat at the 1906 election
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7322 on: June 23, 2024, 11:34:08 am »
155 would be one of the worst results ever posted by the Tories [certainly in their modern form] at an election, 155 would be worse [by one] than the wipeout in 1906, current polls are predicting that's the best outcome they can hope for, with just 11 days before the election, can't ever remember the Tories polling this bad this close to a general election before, even in the run up to 97 they were polling around the 28% mark.

Incidentally the PM lost his seat at the 1906 election

The PM didn't lose his seat as he had resigned before the election was called, he still stood for election but wasn't the Prime Minister but Leader of the Opposition at the time. Henry Campbell-Bannerman was the Liberal PM.despite not having a majority
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7323 on: June 23, 2024, 11:40:49 am »
In retrospect it's a shame the Lib Dems have tied themselves to reversing Brexit, if they could find a way to position themselves as the new centre right party that would surely help decimate both the tories and reform?

Offline Statto Red

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7324 on: June 23, 2024, 11:42:37 am »
The PM didn't lose his seat as he had resigned before the election was called, he still stood for election but wasn't the Prime Minister but Leader of the Opposition at the time. Henry Campbell-Bannerman was the Liberal PM.despite not having a majority

I see.

Be very funny if Sunak loses his seat, his constituency has been safe Tory seat, for over 100 years, funnily enough last time the Tories lost the seat was the wipeout in 1906, Sunak has a 27k majority in that seat too.

Then again it'd still be funny if Sunak wins the seat but the Tories are wiped out elsewhere, everyone knows Sunak will fuck off to California, that'll be the first bye-election of the next parliament regardless what Sunak has said about staying as MP.
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7325 on: June 23, 2024, 11:46:43 am »
In retrospect it's a shame the Lib Dems have tied themselves to reversing Brexit, if they could find a way to position themselves as the new centre right party that would surely help decimate both the tories and reform?

I think it will be the Tories who are the official opposition, but if it were the lib dems it would be great to see a Labour goverrnment attacked from the left.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7326 on: June 23, 2024, 11:47:43 am »
155 would be one of the worst results ever posted by the Tories [certainly in their modern form] at an election, 155 would be worse [by one] than the wipeout in 1906, current polls are predicting that's the best outcome they can hope for, with just 11 days before the election, can't ever remember the Tories polling this bad this close to a general election before, even in the run up to 97 they were polling around the 28% mark.

Incidentally the PM lost his seat at the 1906 election
I thought anything below 150 Tory MPs would be a amazing result when the election was first called. anything below 100 was just wishful thinking. the bookies now price anything below 100 at 4/7   :shocked
I don't care if you live in the safest Labour seat in the country. if you really want to change this country for the better then you have to get out and vote Labour when they have the best chance of wining the seat, I would vote Lib Dems if they were the main opposition to the Torys in that seat.
This may not go down well with some but if you refuse to vote these Torys out then I think you've lost the right to preach to anyone on how we should make a better world. the first step above all is crushing the opposition to making this better world. that means sending them a message at the polls, we want the Torys to shit themselves when the results come in on the 4th May. last thing we need is for the results to give them hope for the future to encourage them to continue as they are. stopping at home refusing to vote them out will bring hope for the Torys.
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

Offline Shankly998

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7327 on: June 23, 2024, 12:09:32 pm »
I thought anything below 150 Tory MPs would be a amazing result when the election was first called. anything below 100 was just wishful thinking. the bookies now price anything below 100 at 4/7   :shocked
I don't care if you live in the safest Labour seat in the country. if you really want to change this country for the better then you have to get out and vote Labour when they have the best chance of wining the seat, I would vote Lib Dems if they were the main opposition to the Torys in that seat.
This may not go down well with some but if you refuse to vote these Torys out then I think you've lost the right to preach to anyone on how we should make a better world. the first step above all is crushing the opposition to making this better world. that means sending them a message at the polls, we want the Torys to shit themselves when the results come in on the 4th May. last thing we need is for the results to give them hope for the future to encourage them to continue as they are. stopping at home refusing to vote them out will bring hope for the Torys.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-nearly-40-per-cent-of-young-people-do-not-plan-to-vote-in-the-election_uk_667650f4e4b0d9bcf74e9bc9

Quote
Nearly 40% of young people do not intend to vote in the general election, according to a shock poll.

The Techne survey for Independent Media revealed that a quarter of 18 to 34-year-olds say they have not even registered to vote less than two weeks before the country goes to the polls.

And they wonder why the government doesn't care about them. Fortunately the tories have pissed off enough people outside my age range that it won't but still Jesus Christ.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 12:12:32 pm by Shankly998 »

Offline Red Beret

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7328 on: June 23, 2024, 12:25:13 pm »
I'm actually hoping support for Deform dips a bit in the next round of polls. You just know that cnut Frottage will spin their results as a widespread public endorsement of his Russia comments.

I'm clueless on betting and odds but I'd say there's a 1 in 3 chance the Tories end up with less than 100 seats. I'd say 100, plus or minus 20 at this point. I want lower, but I also don't want to put up with smug Frottage either, so I'm torn.
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7329 on: June 23, 2024, 12:42:53 pm »
Am staggered that Reform is gaining any traction. That twat threw anything he could find under a bus and went into hiding when Brexshit happened.

Do people really like pompous odious fools that constantly lie? Should it come as no surprise that a good percentage of people are as thick as shit with him? What has he done politically that has earned him such a weird cult following anyway, can't think of anything whatsoever. Country is fucked whoever gets into power, it's full to the brim with idiots that vote for idiots.
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Offline Shankly998

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7330 on: June 23, 2024, 12:46:06 pm »
Am staggered that Reform is gaining any traction. That twat threw anything he could find under a bus and went into hiding when Brexshit happened.

Do people really like pompous odious fools that constantly lie? Should it come as no surprise that a good percentage of people are as thick as shit with him? What has he done politically that has earned him such a weird cult following anyway, can't think of anything whatsoever. Country is fucked whoever gets into power, it's full to the brim with idiots that vote for idiots.

It makes sense if you're on the right. Taxes and immigration are sky high under a "conservative" government so you'd naturally look for alternatives on the right.

Offline Lusty

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7331 on: June 23, 2024, 12:51:27 pm »
This should be devestating for the Tories and yet people STILL vote for them. Amazing

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/jun/22/catastrophic-scale-sewage-spills-england-and-wales

Revealed: the ‘catastrophic scale’ of sewage spills in England and Wales
One of those areas where there's not a drastic difference between the two main parties in their manifestos unfortunately.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7332 on: June 23, 2024, 12:56:51 pm »
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-nearly-40-per-cent-of-young-people-do-not-plan-to-vote-in-the-election_uk_667650f4e4b0d9bcf74e9bc9

And they wonder why the government doesn't care about them. Fortunately the tories have pissed off enough people outside my age range that it won't but still Jesus Christ.
To be fair, I can forgive some 18yr to say 21 yr olds not registering to vote. I first voted when I was 18 but never had a clue about the Labour MP I voted for or Politics itself. your influenced by your parents and the people close to you during that period, if they are cynical then I imagine you have a good chance of being cynical yourself.
I can't be as understanding for older people who go through life with this attitude though. Cynicism at that age is the easy way for the ignorant and lazy to appear clued up on politics. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 01:07:50 pm by oldfordie »
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

Offline Libertine

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7333 on: June 23, 2024, 01:06:26 pm »
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-nearly-40-per-cent-of-young-people-do-not-plan-to-vote-in-the-election_uk_667650f4e4b0d9bcf74e9bc9

And they wonder why the government doesn't care about them. Fortunately the tories have pissed off enough people outside my age range that it won't but still Jesus Christ.

Is it a "shock poll"? 40-50% of younger people didn't vote in the last 3 elections. Why would it be different this time?

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7334 on: June 23, 2024, 01:11:12 pm »
One of those areas where there's not a drastic difference between the two main parties in their manifestos unfortunately.

Labour have plans

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqq31y3vv6o

Quote
Labour's environment spokesperson Steve Reed accused the Conservatives of having "just folded their arms and looked the other way while water companies pumped a tidal wave of raw sewage into our rivers, lakes and seas, putting the nation's health at risk".

Labour has promised to make water bosses who oversee law-breaking face criminal charges and to introduce automatic fines for water companies that allow illegal discharges.

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7335 on: June 23, 2024, 01:18:03 pm »
Labour have plans

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqq31y3vv6o


Dont water companies get fined already? Or is that on the back of investigations.

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7336 on: June 23, 2024, 01:18:11 pm »
Labour have plans

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqq31y3vv6o

That's not really that different to what the Tories have in their manifesto either though. Going off this:

https://www.sas.org.uk/updates/political-parties-announce-plans-to-tackle-sewage-pollution/

All a bit disappointing and feels like Labour have missed an open goal on that particular issue.

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As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline classycarra

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7338 on: June 23, 2024, 01:50:38 pm »
That's not really that different to what the Tories have in their manifesto either though. Going off this:

https://www.sas.org.uk/updates/political-parties-announce-plans-to-tackle-sewage-pollution/

All a bit disappointing and feels like Labour have missed an open goal on that particular issue.
their plans sound good (plus leave room for more punitive regulations, without breaking any manifesto promises)

what's the open goal that you think they missed?

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7339 on: June 23, 2024, 01:59:39 pm »
In retrospect it's a shame the Lib Dems have tied themselves to reversing Brexit, if they could find a way to position themselves as the new centre right party that would surely help decimate both the tories and reform?

The Lib Dem manifesto is more traditionally, left wing, than Labour's.

The Labour manifesto is pretty much bang in the middle, with the Tories to the right, and Reform further right, still.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 02:01:46 pm by Red-Soldier »

Offline Lusty

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7340 on: June 23, 2024, 01:59:52 pm »
their plans sound good (plus leave room for more punitive regulations, without breaking any manifesto promises)

what's the open goal that you think they missed?
I've said on here before that I think Nationalisation is a no brainer. And I'm not a radical left winger. It pays for itself, and is popular with pretty much every demographic.

But, at the very least I'd expect to see a bigger difference between the Labour and Conservative manifestos. If I posted them side by side you would be hard pressed to tell me which was which.

At the very least, I don't see anything in the Lib Dem manifesto that Labour could not have included in theirs.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7341 on: June 23, 2024, 02:32:08 pm »
I've said on here before that I think Nationalisation is a no brainer. And I'm not a radical left winger. It pays for itself, and is popular with pretty much every demographic.

But, at the very least I'd expect to see a bigger difference between the Labour and Conservative manifestos. If I posted them side by side you would be hard pressed to tell me which was which.

At the very least, I don't see anything in the Lib Dem manifesto that Labour could not have included in theirs.
Nationalisation of services is a no brainer for the reason you say and more,  So why has it taken decades for the country to come around to becoming more supportive of Nationalisation if it's a no brainer ? 
 I think Labour understand the history behind Nationalisation and are taking a similar view as there attitude towards Brexit. don't make it a election issue for the Torys to pick apart to exploit fear to win votes at the election, the Torys will say it's proof of Labour still being influenced by the far left.  how they will want to Nationalise everything. doom,doom. doom. d/heads like Dennis Skinner will back up that argument, "I love Jeremy Corbyn, if I had my way I would Nationalise something every week"      thats what's really pissed me off, the people who shouted for Nationalisation the most made the fight for Nationalisation impossible.

As for the Tory manifesto, I don't think ive bothered looking at a Tory manifesto in detail for years, ive got a good idea on what it will say, a pack of lies so I wouldn't compare the 2 manifestos.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2024, 02:34:43 pm by oldfordie »
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7342 on: June 23, 2024, 03:02:12 pm »
Fuck what's in the Tory manifesto. Even if they got in, they'd only implement the shitty stuff. Everything else would be buried, and they would get away with it because the right wing media makes them almost scrutiny proof.

Labour can't be very radical because the finances are in a mess. The Tories have effectively put Labour in a straightjacket. They can only renationalise the railways because it's revenue neutral.
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7343 on: June 23, 2024, 03:06:44 pm »
Fuck what's in the Tory manifesto. Even if they got in, they'd only implement the shitty stuff. Everything else would be buried, and they would get away with it because the right wing media makes them almost scrutiny proof.

Labour can't be very radical because the finances are in a mess. The Tories have effectively put Labour in a straightjacket. They can only renationalise the railways because it's revenue neutral.

Are you suggesting the only way to prevent seewerage in the waterways is nationalisation. There must be asnother way.

On some issues what prevents Labour being radical is Labour
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7344 on: June 23, 2024, 03:24:28 pm »
Fuck what's in the Tory manifesto. Even if they got in, they'd only implement the shitty stuff. Everything else would be buried, and they would get away with it because the right wing media makes them almost scrutiny proof.

Labour can't be very radical because the finances are in a mess. The Tories have effectively put Labour in a straightjacket. They can only renationalise the railways because it's revenue neutral.

Yeah, the finances are such a mess Labour can't afford the billions it's going to take to renationalise everything [it will take billions of extra money], & the right wing media will slate Labour even more than they are doing now, the railways are a little easier to renationalise Labour have to wait for the franchises to come up for renewal, but it's not going to happen in the next parliament, that's for after the next election in 29.
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Offline Libertine

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7345 on: June 23, 2024, 03:36:55 pm »
The election outcome with different models of PR:




https://xcancel.com/Dylan_Difford/status/1804808141973954985

"the AMS variant here is based on the one used in Scotland, while STV has a bit larger constituencies than in Ireland. A Welsh-style AMS or Irish-magnitude STV would likely also create small Lab majorities."

Offline Red Beret

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7346 on: June 23, 2024, 03:56:05 pm »
Are you suggesting the only way to prevent seewerage in the waterways is nationalisation. There must be asnother way.

On some issues what prevents Labour being radical is Labour

What prevents Labour being radical is a lack of money. We can give OfWat more legislative teeth, but without money for additional resources everything takes longer.

The only thing that's radical in the UK right now is the electorate, as in radicalised. We all want Labour to do more, but right now I'll take anything over what we currently have.
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7347 on: June 23, 2024, 04:15:17 pm »


There's some stuff in their manifesto about water, but not much.

Will be interesting to see if it has any impact.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7348 on: June 23, 2024, 04:36:30 pm »
What prevents Labour being radical is a lack of money. We can give OfWat more legislative teeth, but without money for additional resources everything takes longer.

The only thing that's radical in the UK right now is the electorate, as in radicalised. We all want Labour to do more, but right now I'll take anything over what we currently have.

Ofwat have enough resources, their problem is that they are in the water companies pocket

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7349 on: June 23, 2024, 04:36:59 pm »
Funny and annoying watching all these Tory types and the Tory press who've bigged Frottage up for years, now panicking and trying to bring him down now he poses an existential threat to the Tories.

Fine when he wrecked the country with Brexit.
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7350 on: June 23, 2024, 04:53:47 pm »
Ofwat have enough resources, their problem is that they are in the water companies pocket

Then fresh legislation and a clear out of staff from the upper levels should fix that. That should enable long term, sustainable change. As I've said before, I'm not too worried about the Labour manifesto; just because it might not be specifically referenced doesn't mean it can't/won't happen. If anything it gives Labour more freedom to act.

Funny and annoying watching all these Tory types and the Tory press who've bigged Frottage up for years, now panicking and trying to bring him down now he poses an existential threat to the Tories.

Fine when he wrecked the country with Brexit.

It's almost as if they didn't anticipate the long term consequences of cutting a deal with the devil.
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7351 on: June 23, 2024, 04:58:28 pm »
Then fresh legislation and a clear out of staff from the upper levels should fix that. That should enable long term, sustainable change. As I've said before, I'm not too worried about the Labour manifesto; just because it might not be specifically referenced doesn't mean it can't/won't happen. If anything it gives Labour more freedom to act.

It's almost as if they didn't anticipate the long term consequences of cutting a deal with the devil.

Thats as I mentioned that there is a hell of a lot of stuff that Labour can and should change when they get their majority in parliament. Stuff around voter id, voter age being example and ensuring tougher legalisation is something they have no excuse not to get changed. Basically there is a lot of things that can be changed without spending money.

It’s why I am disappointed in the stuff around workers rights. All that stuff should be changed to the benefit of people. Also things around the laws against protests and unions should be given more powers for strike action and protection for workers when on strike.

There are no excuses for Labour not to do this.

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7352 on: June 23, 2024, 05:09:04 pm »
Thats as I mentioned that there is a hell of a lot of stuff that Labour can and should change when they get their majority in parliament. Stuff around voter id, voter age being example and ensuring tougher legalisation is something they have no excuse not to get changed. Basically there is a lot of things that can be changed without spending money.

It’s why I am disappointed in the stuff around workers rights. All that stuff should be changed to the benefit of people. Also things around the laws against protests and unions should be given more powers for strike action and protection for workers when on strike.

There are no excuses for Labour not to do this.

As I said, the electorate has been radicalised. They're more likely to be turkeys and vote for Christmas, rather than policies that will help them.

I realise that people think Labour should just bite the bullet and go for it. If they get a 200 plus majority it can only go downhill from there anyway so may as well just grab the bull by the horns and force feed the people what's good for them.

But Labour are probably thinking of 1945-50-51, where a huge majority evaporated in just six years. Yes they got a lot done, and we still benefit from that legacy. But we can't afford to let those bastard Tories have a sniff of an opportunity for government for at least 10 years, and I imagine that's how Labour's campaign team view this. Labour needs to plant seeds and they need a chance to grow and stop the Tories from uprooting them - and they WILL uproot them.

It's easy to call it weak, or a lack of vision. But personally I think that's a overly harsh.
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7353 on: June 23, 2024, 05:27:42 pm »
As I said, the electorate has been radicalised. They're more likely to be turkeys and vote for Christmas, rather than policies that will help them.

I realise that people think Labour should just bite the bullet and go for it. If they get a 200 plus majority it can only go downhill from there anyway so may as well just grab the bull by the horns and force feed the people what's good for them.

But Labour are probably thinking of 1945-50-51, where a huge majority evaporated in just six years. Yes they got a lot done, and we still benefit from that legacy. But we can't afford to let those bastard Tories have a sniff of an opportunity for government for at least 10 years, and I imagine that's how Labour's campaign team view this. Labour needs to plant seeds and they need a chance to grow and stop the Tories from uprooting them - and they WILL uproot them.

It's easy to call it weak, or a lack of vision. But personally I think that's a overly harsh.

I dont see how some of the stuff mentioned will lead to an eroding of support. Lowering the voter age or giving people more rights, it wont mean that at the next election big firms are canvassing a Tory government. All this stuff is win-win and will go down well with the electorate. We cant fear losing in 5-years, the goal is to change the country for the better.

If we are coming up to the election in 2029 and we have the draconian anti protest laws or voter id is still a thing, then we will know that Labour have wasted their majority.

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7354 on: June 23, 2024, 05:32:03 pm »
Isn't lowering the voting age already in the Labour manifesto - https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-manifesto-2024-16-year-olds-right-to-vote/?

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7355 on: June 23, 2024, 05:37:08 pm »
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-nearly-40-per-cent-of-young-people-do-not-plan-to-vote-in-the-election_uk_667650f4e4b0d9bcf74e9bc9

And they wonder why the government doesn't care about them. Fortunately the tories have pissed off enough people outside my age range that it won't but still Jesus Christ.

To be fair, in the last election in 2019 33% of people overall didn't vote.  Unfortunately apathy isn't restricted to just the young.

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7356 on: June 23, 2024, 05:55:37 pm »
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-nearly-40-per-cent-of-young-people-do-not-plan-to-vote-in-the-election_uk_667650f4e4b0d9bcf74e9bc9

And they wonder why the government doesn't care about them. Fortunately the tories have pissed off enough people outside my age range that it won't but still Jesus Christ.

50% voted in 2019 so that's a 10% increase, if this poll is correct.

60% is pretty close to the overall election turnout so this is a nothing story.
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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7357 on: June 23, 2024, 05:56:34 pm »
:lmao

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7358 on: June 23, 2024, 05:59:06 pm »
Isn't lowering the voting age already in the Labour manifesto - https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-manifesto-2024-16-year-olds-right-to-vote/?

It is but you know you can't tell the difference between their manifesto and the Tories...

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Re: UK General Election
« Reply #7359 on: June 23, 2024, 06:01:08 pm »
Isn't lowering the voting age already in the Labour manifesto - https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-manifesto-2024-16-year-olds-right-to-vote/?

Yes it is. I know they are going to do it but I was giving examples of things they can do with a majority that will not cost any significant cash. Thats of course one of them and i believe there is a strong feeling they will repeal the voter id stuff.