Topic: SPOILERS The Chainless Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon Discussion

[Brian Blessed]

Ah yes. Great character, he's a Scot ain't he?

Yarp.

[Andy_lfc]

Bronn is great but the best delivery when it comes to swearing goes to The Hound.

"I understand that if any more words come pouring out your c*nt mouth, I'm gonna have to eat every fucking chicken in this room"

Ahh The Hound...

"I bet his hair is greasier than Joffrey's c*nt"

and my personal favorite:

"Any man dies with a clean sword, I'll r*pe his corpse."

Charming.

[Ray K]

Every episode of GoT ranked. 
This list is accurate. It also highlights just how bad S5 was - Hardhome was like a life-raft for that season.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Every episode of GoT ranked. 
This list is accurate. It also highlights just how bad S5 was - Hardhome was like a life-raft for that season.

Haven't read through it all but looks about right to me - seasons 1, 3 and 4 are miles ahead of the rest. Blackwater was S2's life-raft; it's hard to say without rewatching it but from memory that was my least favourite season.

[redk84]

I've enjoyed all of it

Guess haven't re-watched enough to remember a clear favourite season. It all merges into one blob with some great moments that stand out and some uncomfortable viewing at times also.

What a show it is though

[TheShanklyGates]

Every episode of GoT ranked. 
This list is accurate. It also highlights just how bad S5 was - Hardhome was like a life-raft for that season.

It's all relative though. What is a poor series for GoT is still streets ahead of almost everything else on telly.

[Xxavi]

It's all relative though. What is a poor series for GoT is still streets ahead of almost everything else on telly.

Word. That particular season was pretty average though, in this day and age (aka The Golden Age of TV).

However, I cannot disagree. The likes of the Walking Dead and True Detective started having really poor/average seasons much earlier. GoT kept a very high standard for a while. And as you say, even the worst season of GoT, if compared to the other popular shows such as the Walking Dead, is actually not bad.

[Redcap]

It's all relative though. What is a poor series for GoT is still streets ahead of almost everything else on telly.

No way in hell.

The amount of good shows on TV right now is ridiculous.

For 2015 US programming alone, the following shows were on:

Better Call Saul
Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
Bloodline
Daredevil S1
Mr Robot
Show Me a Hero
Community
Adventure Time
Gravity Falls
Girls
BoJack Horseman
Archer
Parks and Recreation
Fargo (S2)
Mad Men
Catastrophe
Master of None
Transparent
Rectify
The Americans

And that's just off the top of my head. There are heaps of other shows that would probably also be in contention.

Game of Thrones is a tremendous achievement in a lot of ways. But one of its biggest achievements is success in spite of being so massive and unwieldy. That means it's also a massively flawed show in ways that other smaller shows just don't have to deal with.

[Buck Pete]

Watched the 'Game of Thrones, the story so far' on SKY last night.  Nice little refresher and has wet my appetite for season 7.

Personal wish list for season 7:

Spoiler

Loads of 'Hound' scenes ending in a confrontation with Mountain II
Ellaria Sand meets a gruesome death at the hands of one of the Lannisters. (Hate that woman!!)
Jorah Mormont finds a cure for his Greyscale (I like Jorah)
Arya finally ticks Cersei off her kill list
Yara and Theon deal with Euron in spectacular style
Davos gets to avenge Princess Shireen and kill Melisandre
Jon Snow and Dany have an emotional Aunt/Nephew coming together.
Tyrion revisits his drinking, womanising and generally not giving a fuck days
Maester Sam returns from the citadel and along with Bran Stark they plot the downfall of the White Walkers
Gendry reappears and throws a BIG spanner in the works.

[close]

[Sheer Magnetism]

Every episode of GoT ranked. 
This list is accurate. It also highlights just how bad S5 was - Hardhome was like a life-raft for that season.

The seasons have become increasingly bottom heavy as the show's gone on, it seems almost unthinkable an episode like The Lion and the Rose would come as early in a season these days. For all the fuss about last year, things really only started happening in the last three or four episodes and a lot of the plotlines and characters had barely moved over the course of a year. Really looking forward to this year, but I hope there isn't more LOTR-level action movie stupidity in there (the ice pixie's ice grenade, the Waif T1000 chase or even Arya's finale last year).

[Chris~]

With a short season and still a fair bit of manoeuvring/plots to tie up before the final season I wouldn't be surprised if littlefinger gets killed early on. Not really sure what is left for him other than to try and turn some of the north against Jon or even flip back.

[Brian Blessed]

Watched the 'Game of Thrones, the story so far' on SKY last night.  Nice little refresher and has wet my appetite for season 7.

Personal wish list for season 7:

Spoiler

Loads of 'Hound' scenes ending in a confrontation with Mountain II
Ellaria Sand meets a gruesome death at the hands of one of the Lannisters. (Hate that woman!!)
Jorah Mormont finds a cure for his Greyscale (I like Jorah)
Arya finally ticks Cersei off her kill list
Yara and Theon deal with Euron in spectacular style
Davos gets to avenge Princess Shireen and kill Melisandre
Jon Snow and Dany have an emotional Aunt/Nephew coming together.
Tyrion revisits his drinking, womanising and generally not giving a fuck days
Maester Sam returns from the citadel and along with Bran Stark they plot the downfall of the White Walkers
Gendry reappears and throws a BIG spanner in the works.

[close]

How could you forget

Spoiler

[close]

[UntouchableLuis]

What spanner in the works could Gendry have?

I reckon Euron is going to team up with Cersei, attempt to use his dragon horn to control a dragon but that will not end well for him.

Reckon we will see all the Starks together at some point but feel like we will lose one of them this series.

[Buck Pete]

What spanner in the works could Gendry have?

He's the rightful heir to the Throne isn't he?

[UntouchableLuis]

He's the rightful heir to the Throne isn't he?

Oh yeah, probably why they killed Stannis off now that I think about it.

Not that it will matter when Dany's army comes knocking

[S]

This is probably the sort of thing you're not supposed to think about in a fantasy series but...

Why would anyone accept Gendry as the rightful King just because one woman says so? And along similar lines, why would anyone believe that Jon Snow is actually a Targaryen?

...I probably need to stop applying logic to a show that has dragons in it.

[Redcap]

He's the rightful heir to the Throne isn't he?

Well, not really.

If Westeros wasn't going to get together to back Stannis, why would they back no name Gendry?

[Random trivia: the Baratheon claim to the Iron Throne is supported via being distant cousins of the Targaryens)

We're only going to see Jon and Dany (assuming both are alive) with a genuine claim by the end of the season.

This is probably the sort of thing you're not supposed to think about in a fantasy series but...

Why would anyone accept Gendry as the rightful King just because one woman says so? And along similar lines, why would anyone believe that Jon Snow is actually a Targaryen?

...I probably need to stop applying logic to a show that has dragons in it.

Which woman would be supporting Gendry's claim? Melisandre? It's fairly clear she's moved on with her life - she backs Jon now.

As for who would support Jon, we do have one living witness to the Tower of Joy affair. I don't know if he'd make an appearance though.

[S]

Well, not really.

If Westeros wasn't going to get together to back Stannis, why would they back no name Gendry?

[Random trivia: the Baratheon claim to the Iron Throne is supported via being distant cousins of the Targaryens)

We're only going to see Jon and Dany (assuming both are alive) with a genuine claim by the end of the season.


Which woman would be supporting Gendry's claim? Melisandre? It's fairly clear she's moved on with her life - she backs Jon now.

As for who would support Jon, we do have one living witness to the Tower of Joy affair. I don't know if he'd make an appearance though.

Not really suggesting anything with regards to Gendry, just talking hypothetically. Same with Jon Snow, it's just funny that in a fantasy show like this one character can just say something like, "this stranger is a Baratheon" or "this guy's actually a Targaryen" and it has to be accepted.

[Buck Pete]

Well, not really.

He is really

The point is, Gendry IS (as far as we know) Robert Baratheon's son and as such has a genuine claim to the thrown.

Who would back him is another debate entirely.

[Buck Pete]

Not really suggesting anything with regards to Gendry, just talking hypothetically. Same with Jon Snow, it's just funny that in a fantasy show like this one character can just say something like, "this stranger is a Baratheon" or "this guy's actually a Targaryen" and it has to be accepted.

Surely Westeros has their own version of Jeremy Kyle who can thrash our paternity issues in front of everyone.

[Crosby Nick]

Surely Westeros has their own version of Jeremy Kyle who can thrash our paternity issues in front of everyone.

Sounds a job for Bronn.

[Redcap]

He is really

The point is, Gendry IS (as far as we know) Robert Baratheon's son and as such has a genuine claim to the thrown.

Who would back him is another debate entirely.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If there's no popular support behind a possible candidate, is he a possible candidate? The way I see it, every player in the game is already backing one horse or another.

[simpleman]

What about Gendry marrying Danny and Jon the Maid of Honour?

[Buck Pete]

We'll have to agree to disagree. If there's no popular support behind a possible candidate, is he a possible candidate? The way I see it, every player in the game is already backing one horse or another.

What are you actually disagreeing with mate?  The point I am making is who is the rightful heir to the throne.

Gendry is Robert Baratheon's bastard son, That has been made clear

Gendry is the rightful heir to the throne whether nobody backs him or the whole of Westeros does!!

The whole of Britain may hate Prince Charles and not want the big eared prick to be king. But unfortunately he is the next in line to the throne. Simple as that.

[Brian Blessed]

The problem with trying to work out who is the rightful heir, is that there aren't many rules, and they don't follow any logic. Was Robert even the rightful, legitimate king? If he was, then you've got Gendry, but he's a bastard so that throws his right into question. But then you've got Jon the Bastard who was declared King in the North because reasons.

But if the Targaryen's are the legit rulers is it Dany or John (assuming you can get past proving Jon is a Targ)If Gendry the Bastard has a claim, then so does Jon, assuming it's full medieval and the male heir's claim comes before the female heirs (I have no idea who is older, Jon or Dany)

And of course you've now got Queen Cersei again because reasons.

It doesn't bear thinking about really!

[Schmidt]

The problem with trying to work out who is the rightful heir, is that there aren't many rules, and they don't follow any logic. Was Robert even the rightful, legitimate king? If he was, then you've got Gendry, but he's a bastard so that throws his right into question. But then you've got Jon the Bastard who was declared King in the North because reasons.

But if the Targaryen's are the legit rulers is it Dany or John (assuming you can get past proving Jon is a Targ)If Gendry the Bastard has a claim, then so does Jon, assuming it's full medieval and the male heir's claim comes before the female heirs (I have no idea who is older, Jon or Dany)

And of course you've now got Queen Cersei again because reasons.

It doesn't bear thinking about really!

Not that this clears up much, but it'd be Dany before Jon as Dany is the daughter of Aerys II, the king before Robert Baratheon took power. If Jon is of that family he'd be the child of Rhaegar and Dany's nephew.

[Brian Blessed]

Not that this clears up much, but it'd be Dany before Jon as Dany is the daughter of Aerys II, the king before Robert Baratheon took power. If Jon is of that family he'd be the child of Rhaegar and Dany's nephew.

Oooh, nephew, I had brother stuck in my head.

[Schmidt]

Oooh, nephew, I had brother stuck in my head.

Easily done considering their ages', apparently despite his advanced age and severe mental decline the mad king still made time to bone down now and then.

[Brian Blessed]

Easily done considering their ages', apparently despite his advanced age and severe mental decline the mad king still made time to bone down now and then.

Possible spoiler regarding another character...

Spoiler

But am I right in thinking that if the Tyrion rumour is true, he is Dany's half brother, rather than Jon's?

[close]

[Schmidt]

Possible spoiler regarding another character...

Spoiler

But am I right in thinking that if the Tyrion rumour is true, he is Dany's half brother, rather than Jon's?

[close]

I think so given his age, though I'm not totally sure on that one.

[mgs88]

Possible spoiler regarding another character...

Spoiler

But am I right in thinking that if the Tyrion rumour is true, he is Dany's half brother, rather than Jon's?

[close]

You would be right but I wouldn't put much stock in that theory

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Redcap]

What are you actually disagreeing with mate?  The point I am making is who is the rightful heir to the throne.

Gendry is Robert Baratheon's bastard son, That has been made clear

Gendry is the rightful heir to the throne whether nobody backs him or the whole of Westeros does!!

The whole of Britain may hate Prince Charles and not want the big eared prick to be king. But unfortunately he is the next in line to the throne. Simple as that.

Oh, with your initial point/wish about the spanner in the works. I don't think there's any possible version of events where he would emerge as a challenger for the throne.

And it's quite different to the Charles situation, because Baratheon rule of Westeros has lasted < 20 years. They were seen as usurpers to the throne by three of the nine major houses of the kingdom, with Lannister and Greyjoy largely not participating. The Targaryens are still loved and seen as the rightful rules of Westeros by a lot of people. I don't think any such analogue exists for Britain?

I agree with you that there are not a bunch of equally good claims from Lannister, Greyjoy, Baelish et al. Obviously there are not.

But arguably, the most rightful claim to the throne comes via the Targaryen children - Dany and Jon, rather than through the Baratheons. That (as well as dragons) why the likes of Tyrion and Euron Greyjoy are going to Dany. That's (plus revenge) is why Dorne has stayed in the Targaryen corner through the Robert Baratheon years til now. That's why Varys has continued to work for their restoration throughout their twenty years in exile.

Five (story) years ago, if it emerged that Robert had a bastard child, then that child would be a real threat to his (Jaime's) other children, plus Renly and Stannis. Then the Baratheons were still firmly installed as the rulers of the land. Now, Westeros is in turmoil. Yeah, there's a bastard child of the guy who overthrew the ruling family of three hundred years out there, but at this stage, so what? The kingdom has been ripped apart by five years of war, the ruling family is coming back, and everyone with an army already has a guy or gal to back.

[RJH]

Not that this clears up much, but it'd be Dany before Jon as Dany is the daughter of Aerys II, the king before Robert Baratheon took power. If Jon is of that family he'd be the child of Rhaegar and Dany's nephew.

But Rhaegar was the son of Aerys II, so wouldn't Jon be first?

[Redcap]

But Rhaegar was the son of Aerys II, so wouldn't Jon be first?

Unlikely that Jon and Dany will sit down in a room and work out the order of succession, mate

I suspect the ending we'll get, if both characters survive, is Dany on the Iron Throne and Jon, the King in the North. I don't see Jon ruling Westeros anyway. That would be awful.

Just watched the "Winter is Coming" trailer.

latest trailer

You probably could have guessed, but I don't think Jaime and Cersei will survive this season.

[close]

[vagabond]

Rhaegar died before the Mad King. So his heir would then have been Viserys, followed by Dany. Rhaegar's children only become heirs if Dany doesn't have any of her own. And even then, we don't know if Rhaegar married Lyanna or if Jon is, still, a bastard. And bastard's don't inherit anything.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

I don't see Jon ruling Westeros anyway. That would be awful.

Yeah, thinking about it, Jon wouldn't even want to be King of Westeros. He got fed up with simply being leader of the Night's Watch

[Xxavi]

Yeah, thinking about it, Jon wouldn't even want to be King of Westeros. He got fed up with simply being leader of the Night's Watch

Who then?

It's not like Dany has been doing a good job as the leader of her people. Like Jon, she didn't want power, but now seems to want it purely for emotional reasons including revenge etc. Day to day governing doesn't seem to be enjoyable to her either.

Ironically, best people suited for the throne are Littlefinger and the old lady from High Garden. Olena or something. And Tywin before his death. From the current crop of contenders (Dany, Jon, Sansa, Cersei), you cannot select one that is a lot better suited than the others.

[Redcap]

Who then?

It's not like Dany has been doing a good job as the leader of her people. Like Jon, she didn't want power, but now seems to want it purely for emotional reasons including revenge etc. Day to day governing doesn't seem to be enjoyable to her either.

Ironically, best people suited for the throne are Littlefinger and the old lady from High Garden. Olena or something. And Tywin before his death. From the current crop of contenders (Dany, Jon, Sansa, Cersei), you cannot select one that is a lot better suited than the others.

Dany's entire arc, from sex pawn to Khaleesi, has been about her rise to rulership. She doesn't want to rule Westeros for revenge. She wants to rule because she believes it to be her birthright, like her brother believed it was his.

She's also pretty well placed to rule wisely with Tyrion as her hand. Whatever you think of Dany's decision-making, you can't go too wrong with Tyrion as your chief advisor.

[simpleman]

I get the impression Daenerys wants to give her subjects a better life.  She wants to be a ruler loved by the people.  She started out that way, with her own high moral compass.   Power certainly has influenced her, the more she got, and she veered away from her path.  She'll defeat the white walkers and unify the kingdoms in the process.  I don't think the title or position of king of the north will remain.  I think Sansa will become the ward of the north, Jon maybe dies for real or becomes Queens guard.  Tyrion stays the hand. Sam to become her Maester.  They all have bbq's and camp fires and tell stories of their time at band camp.

...but then I thought Ned Stark was going to become king.

[El Lobo]

I get the impression Daenerys wants to give her subjects a better life.  She wants to be a ruler loved by the people.  She started out that way, with her own high moral compass.   Power certainly has influenced her, the more she got, and she veered away from her path.  She'll defeat the white walkers and unify the kingdoms in the process.  I don't think the title or position of king of the north will remain.  I think Sansa will become the ward of the north, Jon maybe dies for real or becomes Queens guard.  Tyrion stays the hand. Sam to become her Maester.  They all have bbq's and camp fires and tell stories of their time at band camp.

...but then I thought Ned Stark was going to become king.

Yeah.....that's not gonna happen.

No chance it ends up happy ever after for most of the people we want it to