Author Topic: Takumi Minamino  (Read 429029 times)

Offline markthescouser

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2800 on: November 25, 2021, 01:48:51 pm »
You are looking at the wrong part of law 11 there mate. https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

This is the relevant bit.
Can’t see the bottom bit of what you posted there for some reason?

Although from the link you posted, it looks like the defender blocking the shot could be classed as a save, was that it? Either way, I do actually think it should be offside tbf

Offline SamLad

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2801 on: November 25, 2021, 02:57:10 pm »
Saw a stat saying that Taki covered the most distance of any player on the pitch last night.  Klopp will love that effort.  shame he was called off for that goal.

Offline kasperoff

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2802 on: November 25, 2021, 09:13:22 pm »
You are looking at the wrong part of law 11 there mate. https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

This is the relevant bit.

Taki" border="0

Nice one. Thanks for clearing that up.
I think the same, can't stand him, but if you could have a £1million pound cheque or steve bruces head hollowed out and filled with pound coins which would you have?

Offline terry_macss_perm

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2803 on: November 26, 2021, 01:25:59 am »
Can’t see the bottom bit of what you posted there for some reason?

Although from the link you posted, it looks like the defender blocking the shot could be classed as a save, was that it? Either way, I do actually think it should be offside tbf

A save is when the ball is going in or near the goal so would ordinarily have to be near the goal line for an outfield defender but a keeper would probably have any stop of a goal attempt considered a save wherever it happened in the box.

The laws say you are offside if a ball deflects or rebounds from an opponent but not if the opponent deliberately plays the ball. But there’s no definition of a deflection. What if it deflects but off a deliberate attempt to play the ball? Lovren v Spurs and Garcia for Spain v France for Mbappe’s goal were clearly deliberate attempts to play the ball but only resulted in slight deflections of the path of the ball.

The Porto defender last night stuck out his leg to play the ball and the ball deviated massively to the side and up in the air. A bit more than a deflection.
In this context I’d have thought that a deflection should just mean inadvertent contact with a shoulder or hip or backside but anyway, it’s a silly rule.

It would be much easier to say that you can only be played onside by a touch on the ball by an opponent if it constitutes a deliberate attempt to kick/head/or otherwise play the ball to a colleague - a similar interpretation that refs make several times per game to determine if a back pass has been attempted to a goalkeeper.

 

Offline LiamG

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2804 on: November 26, 2021, 11:34:44 am »
Saw a stat saying that Taki covered the most distance of any player on the pitch last night.  Klopp will love that effort.  shame he was called off for that goal.

It's no good doing all that running when the rest of his team mates don't trust him and won't pass to him 😆

Offline SamLad

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2805 on: November 26, 2021, 03:43:53 pm »
It's no good doing all that running when the rest of his team mates don't trust him and won't pass to him 😆

I don't buy that.  With Mo and Mane up front, they'll get the ball 19 times out of 20.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2806 on: November 26, 2021, 11:10:30 pm »
I don't buy that.  With Mo and Mane up front, they'll get the ball 19 times out of 20.

It's actually true Sam. There was a big discussion about this a while back. The players don't like him - so they don't pass to him. Unless he agrees to buy them sushi.

It's true. It's damn true.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2807 on: November 26, 2021, 11:16:00 pm »
It's actually true Sam. There was a big discussion about this a while back. The players don't like him - so they don't pass to him. Unless he agrees to buy them sushi.

It's true. It's damn true.

A bit fishy to me, like...
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And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline SamLad

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2808 on: November 27, 2021, 12:59:08 am »
It's actually true Sam. There was a big discussion about this a while back. The players don't like him - so they don't pass to him. Unless he agrees to buy them sushi.

It's true. It's damn true.

Nah, bollix man.

Mind you, if you'd said they won't pass to him until he gets rid of the Alice band -- that, I'd believe.

Offline Beninger

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2809 on: November 27, 2021, 02:48:55 am »
Maybe Trent didn’t see it was him at the far post, but I’m convinced he did. And since he felt it was his only option he thought “well, it will look good for my chances created.” Imagine how shocked he was that it turned into a goal. I’m convinced that’s how it happened.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2810 on: November 27, 2021, 01:19:44 pm »
Nah, bollix man.
Art thou doubting the ALmighty? Woe and pestilence shall come to thee, yea and even relentless circular arguing. Get thee behind me FSG! Verily!
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2811 on: December 8, 2021, 12:39:38 am »
Seems much more suited to our midfield rather than the front three
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2812 on: December 8, 2021, 12:50:09 am »
Seems much more suited to our midfield rather than the front three

Yep.

He hasn't the explosiveness to play either of the wide attacking positions and doesn't have the strength to play as a 9 or as a false nine. So as I have said all along his best position for us in my opinion would be as a 8/10.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2813 on: December 8, 2021, 11:57:26 am »
Yep.

He hasn't the explosiveness to play either of the wide attacking positions and doesn't have the strength to play as a 9 or as a false nine. So as I have said all along his best position for us in my opinion would be as a 8/10.

Klopp said differently mentioning it's not his natural position.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2814 on: December 8, 2021, 12:14:10 pm »
So as I have said all along….
Ah never change Al ;D

On a serious note, I’m sure there’s many of us really happy to see Taki’s place in the squad validated, as hoped/predicted.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2815 on: December 8, 2021, 12:23:48 pm »
Klopp said differently mentioning it's not his natural position.
Yep, he made a specific point of mentioning it, and saying how he felt Taki coped well considering he was not playing in his natural position.

But hell, what does Klopp know when some armchair manager can bring up a quote from some previous manager as if it's eternal gospel :)
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Offline redwillow

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2816 on: December 8, 2021, 12:46:33 pm »
volley and half volleys, hes the one player id want the ball dropping too

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2817 on: December 8, 2021, 12:49:44 pm »
Yep, he made a specific point of mentioning it, and saying how he felt Taki coped well considering he was not playing in his natural position.

But hell, what does Klopp know when some armchair manager can bring up a quote from some previous manager as if it's eternal gospel :)

Natural positions eh.

How many Liverpool players play in their natural positions. Neco and Kostas are converted wingers, Ibou started out as a Striker and Nat Phillips was a CM.

Tyler Morton has changed his role to become a DM, Taki is a Striker and Ox started out as a forward. So that is none of the defence or midfield playing their original role.

Mo came as a right winger but is now a wide striker, Mane started off on the right but now plays on the left and Origi is a traditional 9 who often plays wide.

It is almost as if we don't play players in traditional roles.....

Apart from Adrian who has always been a keeper, ever since he stopped playing as a striker.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2818 on: December 8, 2021, 12:52:15 pm »
Natural positions eh.

How many Liverpool players play in their natural positions. Neco and Kostas are converted wingers, Ibou started out as a Striker and Nat Phillips was a CM.

Tyler Morton has changed his role to become a DM, Taki is a Striker and Ox started out as a forward. So that is none of the defence or midfield playing their original role.

Mo came as a right winger but is now a wide striker, Mane started off on the right but now plays on the left and Origi is a traditional 9 who often plays wide.

It is almost as if we don't play players in traditional roles.....

Apart from Adrian who has always been a keeper, ever since he stopped playing as a striker.


:lmao

God loves a trier
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2819 on: December 8, 2021, 01:33:04 pm »
:lmao

God loves a trier

You almost have to admire it, almost  ;D
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2820 on: December 8, 2021, 01:36:08 pm »
:lmao

God loves a trier
You almost have to admire it, almost  ;D

I believe this is the definition of "moving the goalposts"?

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2821 on: December 8, 2021, 06:05:56 pm »
I believe this is the definition of "moving the goalposts"?

No it is describing the realities of football.

The most technically gifted players in each age group tend to get played in the positions in which they can effect the game the most. That is usually an attacking role. Once you reach senior level then those same players are competing with much better players.

So unless you are an absolute freak then players positions tend to change. Usually that means wingers become full backs and strikers either drop deeper or wider.

That for me is what is happening with Taki. If he wants to play at Liverpool then it isn't going to be as a striker. We play with 3 forwards and he is currently 6th choice at best.

For me his best chance is to show his versatility. He has great technique and movement plus a great work ethic. Personally I think his best chance at Liverpool is as a creative 8/10.

I wonder how much game time the likes of Trent, Elliot, Neco, Origi and a whole host of others would have got if they only wanted to play in their natural position.

At Liverpool you could be excellent in your natural position but that means zilch if we have better options. Look at legends like Milner playing at left back or even Gerrard playing as wide player or as a 10 when they both wanted to play as a CM.

Personally I think Taki could be a real asset in a deeper role especially against low block teams. I think he has far more chance of nailing down a Coutinho-Lallana role than displacing the likes of Mo, Sadio, Bobby or Jota.
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Offline SamLad

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2822 on: December 8, 2021, 06:09:58 pm »
the list of top-level players who started out playing in one position then were coached into another - and succeeding at top-levels - is a mile long.

Offline The_Nomad

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2823 on: December 8, 2021, 06:13:19 pm »
Man, you’re tedious; and boring.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2824 on: December 8, 2021, 06:13:31 pm »
No it is describing the realities of football.



No, it was and is the definition of your moving the goalposts...
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Offline SamLad

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2825 on: December 8, 2021, 06:14:13 pm »
Man, you’re tedious; and boring.
me?  :)

Offline The_Nomad

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2826 on: December 8, 2021, 06:30:07 pm »
me?  :)

No no. I think everyone knows.
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Offline SamLad

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2827 on: December 8, 2021, 06:42:50 pm »
No no. I think everyone knows.
I thought it was coz I used "top level" twice in one sentence. :)

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2828 on: December 8, 2021, 07:42:56 pm »
:lmao best thread in the whole forum hands down


Offline Eeyore

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2829 on: December 8, 2021, 08:04:44 pm »
No, it was and is the definition of your moving the goalposts...

Really, so replying to a post about Taki not playing in his natural position by stating that a lot of our players rarely play in their natural positions is shifting the goal posts.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2830 on: December 8, 2021, 08:56:38 pm »
Really, so replying to a post about Taki not playing in his natural position by stating that a lot of our players rarely play in their natural positions is shifting the goal posts.
Not being funny, but all you did was list players who have changed position.

Who’s to say the position they started in wasn’t their ‘natural position’ but the position Klopp has moved them to is.
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2831 on: December 9, 2021, 12:21:53 am »
No it is describing the realities of football.

The most technically gifted players in each age group tend to get played in the positions in which they can effect the game the most. That is usually an attacking role. Once you reach senior level then those same players are competing with much better players.

So unless you are an absolute freak then players positions tend to change. Usually that means wingers become full backs and strikers either drop deeper or wider.

That for me is what is happening with Taki. If he wants to play at Liverpool then it isn't going to be as a striker. We play with 3 forwards and he is currently 6th choice at best.

For me his best chance is to show his versatility. He has great technique and movement plus a great work ethic. Personally I think his best chance at Liverpool is as a creative 8/10.

I wonder how much game time the likes of Trent, Elliot, Neco, Origi and a whole host of others would have got if they only wanted to play in their natural position.

At Liverpool you could be excellent in your natural position but that means zilch if we have better options. Look at legends like Milner playing at left back or even Gerrard playing as wide player or as a 10 when they both wanted to play as a CM.

Personally I think Taki could be a real asset in a deeper role especially against low block teams. I think he has far more chance of nailing down a Coutinho-Lallana role than displacing the likes of Mo, Sadio, Bobby or Jota.

I don't think you're saying too much that's controversial here and I think people are more having an argument with you because you've been pretty down on Taki in the past than for the substance of what you're saying.

Clearly he's not going to be a Mo, Sadio or Jota. That just won't happen because pace and directness are two key qualities for those positions and he hasn't got them. There's a reason Origi got more appearances off the bench than he does, even last season when he was having a mare.

I agree that a deeper attacking midfielder type player is what he's best suited to. In fact, this is the position he played at Salzburg, so it's not even a change in position for him.

The issue for him is we haven't had a pure number 10 since Coutinho. The closest thing we've had is Lallana, and when he played a lot of games it was because he was technically and mentally excellent, yes, but also a freak of a presser and front line defender.

That I think is the key thing that's missing from Taki's game. He won't be a Hendo or a Gini '8' because I don't think he ticks enough boxes - not physically strong enough or positionally adept enough to play a big role defending in midfield. But could he learn to be more of the intelligent monster presser that Lallana was, and that Bobby still is as more of a pure attacker? Because I suspect that's the minimum requirement we're looking for in that position, when we choose to play a more attacking midfielder.

At the moment I don't think any of our more attacking midfielders quite play that role like Klopp would want it - and that's probably a reason why it's not a preferred part of our midfield setup. The closest thing we've got is actually Hendo this season, who still gets through a tonne of defensive work in addition to contributing a lot more in attack. Because I don't think Klopp's that keen to sacrifice any level of defensive responsibility from any of his midfielders.

Ox is probably the next closest and if he stays fit and gives us quite a bit going forward with his dribbling and drive. I can see Harvey growing into that role, for sure. Naby could probably do it too, but he'd have to stay fit.

Taki would offer something a little bit different to all of those. Something a bit closer to Lallana in that he'd be more of a player that creates the link for the final pass / shot. But he has to up the defensive side of his game before he gets trusted to do that regularly.

Decent article below from back when he first signed nearly 2 years ago now about how he played at Salzburg.

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/article/takumi-minamino-201920-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics

Crazy how many good players that Salzburg team had. Haaland, Minamino, Hwang, Szoboslai, Daka all in the same team. No wonder they gave us a run for our money.


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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2832 on: December 9, 2021, 07:48:27 am »
Not being funny, but all you did was list players who have changed position.

Who’s to say the position they started in wasn’t their ‘natural position’ but the position Klopp has moved them to is.

Isn't that just semantics though. In this context for me if you substitute the word normal for natural it makes more sense.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2833 on: December 9, 2021, 08:12:56 am »
I don't think you're saying too much that's controversial here and I think people are more having an argument with you because you've been pretty down on Taki in the past than for the substance of what you're saying.

Clearly he's not going to be a Mo, Sadio or Jota. That just won't happen because pace and directness are two key qualities for those positions and he hasn't got them. There's a reason Origi got more appearances off the bench than he does, even last season when he was having a mare.

I agree that a deeper attacking midfielder type player is what he's best suited to. In fact, this is the position he played at Salzburg, so it's not even a change in position for him.

The issue for him is we haven't had a pure number 10 since Coutinho. The closest thing we've had is Lallana, and when he played a lot of games it was because he was technically and mentally excellent, yes, but also a freak of a presser and front line defender.

That I think is the key thing that's missing from Taki's game. He won't be a Hendo or a Gini '8' because I don't think he ticks enough boxes - not physically strong enough or positionally adept enough to play a big role defending in midfield. But could he learn to be more of the intelligent monster presser that Lallana was, and that Bobby still is as more of a pure attacker? Because I suspect that's the minimum requirement we're looking for in that position, when we choose to play a more attacking midfielder.

At the moment I don't think any of our more attacking midfielders quite play that role like Klopp would want it - and that's probably a reason why it's not a preferred part of our midfield setup. The closest thing we've got is actually Hendo this season, who still gets through a tonne of defensive work in addition to contributing a lot more in attack. Because I don't think Klopp's that keen to sacrifice any level of defensive responsibility from any of his midfielders.

Ox is probably the next closest and if he stays fit and gives us quite a bit going forward with his dribbling and drive. I can see Harvey growing into that role, for sure. Naby could probably do it too, but he'd have to stay fit.

Taki would offer something a little bit different to all of those. Something a bit closer to Lallana in that he'd be more of a player that creates the link for the final pass / shot. But he has to up the defensive side of his game before he gets trusted to do that regularly.

Decent article below from back when he first signed nearly 2 years ago now about how he played at Salzburg.

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/article/takumi-minamino-201920-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics

Crazy how many good players that Salzburg team had. Haaland, Minamino, Hwang, Szoboslai, Daka all in the same team. No wonder they gave us a run for our money.



I think that is really fair. I think my supposed criticism of Taki has been taken out of context though. Something that usually happens in player threads.

Your analysis regarding Taki's role is spot on for me. I said much earlier in the thread that he is unfortunate that we don't really play with a 10. What is in his favour though is that I think Klopp wants a more attacking option in his midfield three.

I think it is telling that Elliot started the season in the midfield three. Add in the serious outlay on the likes of Ox and Keita and for me there is a willingness by Klopp to sacrifice a bit of midfield stability for more creativity and above all more goals from midfield.

So if there is an attacking midfield role especially if Klopp tweaks the system slightly then for me Taki has far more chance of nailing down a starting spot there than in the front three.

As you say that Salzburg team proved how good the Red Bull recruitment model is. The other thing is if we were looking for a genuine front three player from that Salzburg team then Taki would be quite a way down the list. Which for me hints at us wanting something slightly different. Something that I think Taki can provide us with.

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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2834 on: December 9, 2021, 08:56:09 am »
Isn't that just semantics though. In this context for me if you substitute the word normal for natural it makes more sense.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2835 on: December 9, 2021, 09:10:57 am »
Apparently Takumi means John in Japanese, and Minamino means Henry
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2836 on: December 9, 2021, 09:24:39 am »
Seems much more suited to our midfield rather than the front three
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2837 on: December 9, 2021, 09:30:52 am »
Apparently Takumi means John in Japanese, and Minamino means Henry

Yeh and baubles means weapon.  ;D
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2838 on: December 9, 2021, 05:29:09 pm »
Apparently Takumi means John in Japanese, and Minamino means Henry
So, we signed Jack Hank, is he any good?
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #2839 on: December 9, 2021, 09:32:05 pm »
talking about players switching original positions and going on to great success ...

I did not know that Mo started his career at LB.

wiki:
Salah initially started his career at the left-back position, however, following a 4–0 win over the youth team of Egyptian club ENPPI, Salah was in tears for not scoring after missing several clear chances; this made his coach realise his passion for scoring goals, forcing him to move him to a forward position.