Topic: Mohamed Salah - Best in the World *

[4pool]

I little bit on Mo from Ben Foster. Short vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6jptjEaE0k

[royhendo]

Apologies if this was posted already - it’s good. https://statsbomb.com/2021/09/mohamed-salah-what-makes-a-premier-league-centurion/

[Dr Stu-Pid]

Apologies if this was posted already - it’s good. https://statsbomb.com/2021/09/mohamed-salah-what-makes-a-premier-league-centurion/

Thanks for posting that, interesting article.

Not sure about this though:

“Salah lit it up in his first campaign on Merseyside, hitting the ground at a record-breaking pace and providing an instant return on the investment with a 32G+9A debut season”

“Salah’s first season was his best. His other seasons – which “only” returned 19G+8A, 16G+9A, and 16G+5A – were hardly bad Premier League campaigns either. “

His 4 seasons to date have been;  32G+10A, 22G+8A, 19G+10A, and 22G+5A (based on data from the PL website).

I assume that they are quoting non-penalty goals here rather than actual goals?  If they are then they should really make that clearer, and given that most of the players that make up the top scorer lists also take penalties then those numbers are still elite rather than simply being ‘hardly bad’.  For example his 16 non-penalty goals were good enough for 3rd in the PL last season.

Plus, I don’t see any good reason to ignore penalties from goal scoring stats.  Penalty goals count the same as non-penalty goals, and having an elite penalty taker is a massive plus point for a team.

[TepidT2O]

Thanks for posting that, interesting article.

Not sure about this though:

“Salah lit it up in his first campaign on Merseyside, hitting the ground at a record-breaking pace and providing an instant return on the investment with a 32G+9A debut season”

“Salah’s first season was his best. His other seasons – which “only” returned 19G+8A, 16G+9A, and 16G+5A – were hardly bad Premier League campaigns either. “

His 4 seasons to date have been;  32G+10A, 22G+8A, 19G+10A, and 22G+5A (based on data from the PL website).

I assume that they are quoting non-penalty goals here rather than actual goals?  If they are then they should really make that clearer, and given that most of the players that make up the top scorer lists also take penalties then those numbers are still elite rather than simply being ‘hardly bad’.  For example his 16 non-penalty goals were good enough for 3rd in the PL last season.

Plus, I don’t see any good reason to ignore penalties from goal scoring stats.  Penalty goals count the same as non-penalty goals, and having an elite penalty taker is a massive plus point for a team.

They’re talking about XG

He out performs XG

[Dr Stu-Pid]

They’re talking about XG

He out performs XG

I don't think so, at least not in what I quoted.  They said his first season stats were 32G+9A.  He did score 32 goals and 0 penalties, but his XG was only 25, so I definitely think that they are quoting non-penalty goals.  But nowhere in the article do they actually state that, which is confusing in an article about how he scored his 100 PL goals, not 100 PL non-penalty goals.

[CowboyKangaroo]

Thanks for posting that, interesting article.

Not sure about this though:

“Salah lit it up in his first campaign on Merseyside, hitting the ground at a record-breaking pace and providing an instant return on the investment with a 32G+9A debut season”

“Salah’s first season was his best. His other seasons – which “only” returned 19G+8A, 16G+9A, and 16G+5A – were hardly bad Premier League campaigns either. “

His 4 seasons to date have been;  32G+10A, 22G+8A, 19G+10A, and 22G+5A (based on data from the PL website).

I assume that they are quoting non-penalty goals here rather than actual goals?  If they are then they should really make that clearer, and given that most of the players that make up the top scorer lists also take penalties then those numbers are still elite rather than simply being ‘hardly bad’.  For example his 16 non-penalty goals were good enough for 3rd in the PL last season.

Plus, I don’t see any good reason to ignore penalties from goal scoring stats.  Penalty goals count the same as non-penalty goals, and having an elite penalty taker is a massive plus point for a team.

Generally stats people don't count penalties because the difficult thing is winning them, not taking them. The skill of converting penalties a high percentage of the time is also pretty common in top flight football. If Salah hadn't taken those penalties and they'd gone to the next best taker in the team instead the number of goals scored would hardly change.

Statsbomb are just trying to measure the performance of the player using analytics. If Klopp (for whatever reason) chose another player to take all those penalties it wouldn't mean Salah is any worse as a player so its not worth including in the analysis of how good he is as a forward.

Or to put it another way - say we signed CB Bob who happens to be the world's best penalty taker. Never missed one in his life, even in training. So he went on penalties and Salah didn't take any - from a stats point of view Salah's performance hasn't diminished at all, even though the total goals scored would be lower. It just doesn't tell you what they are trying to measure so its excluded. I agree that people should be clear when they mean NPGs though.

[gorgepir]

Was Salah in training? Was wondering with Ballon D'Or tonight.

Edit: Sorry the ceremony is Nov 29, so next month not tonight.

[redgriffin73]

Was Salah in training? Was wondering with Ballon D'Or tonight.

He was yesterday, no pics from today yet I don't think.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

Generally stats people don't count penalties because the difficult thing is winning them, not taking them. The skill of converting penalties a high percentage of the time is also pretty common in top flight football. If Salah hadn't taken those penalties and they'd gone to the next best taker in the team instead the number of goals scored would hardly change.

Statsbomb are just trying to measure the performance of the player using analytics. If Klopp (for whatever reason) chose another player to take all those penalties it wouldn't mean Salah is any worse as a player so its not worth including in the analysis of how good he is as a forward.

Or to put it another way - say we signed CB Bob who happens to be the world's best penalty taker. Never missed one in his life, even in training. So he went on penalties and Salah didn't take any - from a stats point of view Salah's performance hasn't diminished at all, even though the total goals scored would be lower. It just doesn't tell you what they are trying to measure so its excluded. I agree that people should be clear when they mean NPGs though.

I don't disagree at all that analysing non-penalty goals is a 'cleaner' way of comparing player performance, but in an article about scoring 100 PL goals then they should really make it clear that they are only going to talk about his 86 NPG moving forward, or even better use 19NPG+8A rather than 19G+8A.

In fact, it's worse than that!  I've only just realised that he actually scored 1 penalty in his first season, but they still described that season as 32G+9A when by the logic they use below it should have been 31G+9A.  So they are mixing their terminology within the same article.

In this analysis it would also have been good for them to have mentioned the number of penalties to show a complete picture, and also talk about his penalty success rate.  Scoring penalties is in theory easy, but ask Man City if that is always the case...  I'm glad that we have Salah on the pitch to take penalties and it is a skillset that not all players have.

[SamLad]

Pens should never be included when assigning Golden Boot awards or other "best striker" tags.

In a silly example, a goalie could take all of a teams' pens, score 100% of them and end up with the Golden Boot - which is supposed to recognize the best striker, not the best "beater of static goalies from 12 yards".

[Historical Fool]

But it is the reality. He's not going to stay unless we give him the figures he wants. I wish he'd be happy with the already obscene amounts he's already getting paid but if he was he would have signed already

Nah the power is with the club and FSG. He is very very limited in where he can go and who can afford him, and I’m sure he knows that the club holds all the cards here.

[PaulF]

I don't disagree at all that analysing non-penalty goals is a 'cleaner' way of comparing player performance, but in an article about scoring 100 PL goals then they should really make it clear that they are only going to talk about his 86 NPG moving forward, or even better use 19NPG+8A rather than 19G+8A.

In fact, it's worse than that!  I've only just realised that he actually scored 1 penalty in his first season, but they still described that season as 32G+9A when by the logic they use below it should have been 31G+9A.  So they are mixing their terminology within the same article.

In this analysis it would also have been good for them to have mentioned the number of penalties to show a complete picture, and also talk about his penalty success rate.  Scoring penalties is in theory easy, but ask Man City if that is always the case...  I'm glad that we have Salah on the pitch to take penalties and it is a skillset that not all players have.

It would probably make the stat more useful in general to keep penalty goals out but add them back if there's an assist leading to a penalty.

[El Lobo]

Pens should never be included when assigning Golden Boot awards or other "best striker" tags.

In a silly example, a goalie could take all of a teams' pens, score 100% of them and end up with the Golden Boot - which is supposed to recognize the best striker, not the best "beater of static goalies from 12 yards".

[drmick]

Nah the power is with the club and FSG. He is very very limited in where he can go and who can afford him, and I’m sure he knows that the club holds all the cards here.

If by limited you mean the number of clubs, then you are correct.

But this does not mean that his chances of a better deal elsewhere are limited. In fact it is an absolute certainty that PSG, Man City and Newcastle will offer him what he wants.

[rob1966]

If by limited you mean the number of clubs, then you are correct.

But this does not mean that his chances of a better deal elsewhere are limited. In fact it is an absolute certainty that PSG, Man City and Newcastle will offer him what he wants.

Are they better places for him to be though? Gini hates it at PSG due to the SA mafia, City is not a step up from us and they have no supporters and Newcastle are not going to be competing for trophies for 4 years so are a no no for someone of his quality. There is one club on the planet that is the right place for him and he is already there.

[Knight]

Can Madrid afford Mbappe’s wages and Salah’s wages + fee? Wouldn’t have thought so. It’s effectively just PSG and going there is pointless in football terms. He’ll still have time to make a killing at 34/35 in wages at somewhere with more money than sense. This is definitely the contract to take a bit less and maximise his personal award/trophy winning potential. Oh and ironically the more reasonable with his demands he is the more he maximises that potential because every £ not spent on him can go on his teammates. Unlike the oil clubs we don’t have bottomless pockets.

[TSC]

Are they better places for him to be though? Gini hates it at PSG due to the SA mafia, City is not a step up from us and they have no supporters and Newcastle are not going to be competing for trophies for 4 years so are a no no for someone of his quality. There is one club on the planet that is the right place for him and he is already there.

While all that’s correct it depends what the primary driver is though.  Biggest and probably last such deal for him now and can understand him wanting the best commercial outcome now.  Let’s not forget this deal would likely take him beyond Klopp’s tenure (another incoming bridge to be crossed for the club).

The value and dosh sloshing about football now is obscene of course.  But it is what it is in that respect and that is the market and environment in which footballers now live.

[Gerry Attrick]

If he'd been playing for Brighton for about 40k a week maybe, but I reckon I could survive on what he's been earning here. 400k a week at a club you might not be happy at, or about 200 odd here where he obviously is. Comes a point when money really doesn't compensate for other stuff.

[pathetic]

Let's keep our best player for once. Selling him would be heart breaking. Losing him on a free would be a total disaster.

[PaulF]

Can Madrid afford Mbappe’s wages and Salah’s wages + fee? Wouldn’t have thought so. It’s effectively just PSG and going there is pointless in football terms. He’ll still have time to make a killing at 34/35 in wages at somewhere with more money than sense. This is definitely the contract to take a bit less and maximise his personal award/trophy winning potential. Oh and ironically the more reasonable with his demands he is the more he maximises that potential because every £ not spent on him can go on his teammates. Unlike the oil clubs we don’t have bottomless pockets.

He has to factor in he's got to play Everton at least twice a season and the likes of Paul Pogba
(actually Everton might not be such a risk with Rafa there, but a career ending injury is never off the cards)

[rob1966]

While all that’s correct it depends what the primary driver is though.  Biggest and probably last such deal for him now and can understand him wanting the best commercial outcome now.  Let’s not forget this deal would likely take him beyond Klopp’s tenure (another incoming bridge to be crossed for the club).

The value and dosh sloshing about football now is obscene of course.  But it is what it is in that respect and that is the market and environment in which footballers now live.

What's he got in the bank, £50, £60 million? How much money does he need? He's never going to spend what he already has, never mind adding another £15 to £20 million to it.

[jillcwhomever]

What's he got in the bank, £50, £60 million? How much money does he need? He's never going to spend what he already has, never mind adding another £15 to £20 million to it.

African players have a different ethic though, it's not just about money for himself. Both he and Sadio have used their wealth to build schools and hospitals in their homeland, so thinking about it just being for him is misguided. I don't doubt he will use some of it to make his own family comfortable but it will also be used for outside ventures too. He has used his wealth to help less well off people both in his homeland and here. I know thinking about it in isolation and the madness of footballing financial numbers borders on the obscene for normal people such as ourselves. But I think African players who come from poorer countries tend to share their wealth a bit more readily, to help those less well off.

[rob1966]

African players have a different ethic though, it's not just about money for himself. Both he and Sadio have used their wealth to build schools and hospitals in their homeland, so thinking about it just being for him is misguided. I don't doubt he will use some of it to make his own family comfortable but it will also be used for outside ventures too. He has used his wealth to help less well off people both in his homeland and here. I know thinking about it in isolation and the madness of footballing financial numbers borders on the obscene for normal people such as ourselves. But I think African players who come from poorer countries tend to share their wealth a bit more readily, to help those less well off.

But no one who is rich pays cash for anything so surely his accountants make the money work so that it never actually costs them anything personally?

[gray19lfc]

Official Chinese LFC Twitter poster about his contract extension before deleting the post

[TepidT2O]

Official Chinese LFC Twitter poster about his contract extension before deleting the post

If real of course……

[jillcwhomever]

I don’t talk Chinese what’s it saying?

[JasonF]

Probably fake but here's the translation

[jillcwhomever]

Probably fake but here's the translation

Thanks Jason, let’s hope they are right. 

[rob1966]

Sign it on the pitch before KO?

[number 168]

Sign it on the pitch before KO?

United did that with Bryan Robson. Pretty embarrassing at the time although they were crap and needed the publicity.

[rob1966]

United did that with Bryan Robson. Pretty embarrassing at the time although they were crap and needed the publicity.

I well remember that, talk about embarrassing In this social media driven times, it's just the kind of shite I expect to see nowadays.

For our younger viewers

[Wild Romany Boy]

I well remember that, talk about embarrassing In this social media driven times, it's just the kind of shite I expect to see nowadays.

For our younger viewers

Never knew this. And why is Nick Faldo overseeing the contract signing?

[Agent99]

I well remember that, talk about embarrassing In this social media driven times, it's just the kind of shite I expect to see nowadays.

For our younger viewers

I really wish players losing their hair would stop shaving their heads or getting transplants and just go for the classic comb-over. It needs to make a comeback. Ron looks tremendous.

[markedasred]

Big game for the small fella today. After Divock's midweek cup game artistry in the box, nothing less than a two footed scorpion or perhaps a rabona from the half way line will impress me today.
Incidentally, the solution to the wages dilemma is an undisclosed re-signing bonus. Give him a golden handcuffs sum now, agent gets his fee, wage structure appears to remain intact, and his bonus only shows up in the future when the audit is published.

[bornandbRED]

Did he get a kick in the second half? Genuinely reckon he had less than ten touches. The midfield gave him absolutely fuck all for 45 mins.

[the_red_pill]

One thing that I found very unfamiliar yesterday was Mo swinging in cross after cross.
Since when does he play as a traditional winger? Maybe it's just me, but he wasn't in and around the box as much as we're used to and sometimes stayed out wide, carried the ball a good few yards before swinging in a cross, which is not typical Mo. Those crosses didn't seem the sort of quality I've come to expect from he fullbacks either.
Fatigue perhaps? He's been on another level for a while now.

[Tony19:6]

Did he get a kick in the second half? Genuinely reckon he had less than ten touches. The midfield gave him absolutely fuck all for 45 mins.

Wasn't his goal chalked off for offside 2nd half?

[PaulF]

But no one who is rich pays cash for anything so surely his accountants make the money work so that it never actually costs them anything personally?

But the more money he has, the more his accountants can work their magic on.

IF he's in it for the money and for some reason PSG aren't interested. If city are paying him what he wants, do we take £180m or whatever from THEM now, or let him run down his contract?

[BassTunedToRed]

@thehuwdavies on Twitter:

Premier League goals since 1/1/2020:
17 Foden, Jota, Mahrez
18 Bamford, Greenwood, Rashford
19 Jesus, Lacazette, Wilson
20 Sterling
21 Wood
22
23 Aubameyang
24 Calvert-Lewin
25 Antonio, Ings, Mané
26
27 Son
28 Vardy
29
30 Fernandes
31 Kane
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42 Salah

[markedasred]

And poor old 'Arry seems to have fallen off a cliff this season.