Topic: Alcohol Issues - The Carl van Riel Memorial Thread

[Red Genius]

no idea to be honest mate, they were just released from hospital after being in there for 3 months.   being born early.   she had moved up my end when preggers but her family never really had much to do with her when she did move up and never helped with the move.  And they never texted her or phoned her for three weeks before she was rushed into hospital at less than 25 weeks pregnant.  [Now she has moved back to there area over a hours drive away] they cant seem to do enough for her, what I am pleased with as I still love her to bits, but leaves a sour taste in my mouth how they couldn't be arsed with her before.

No chance you guys can sort it out?

I fucked things up royally by being a pisshead, so this most definately isn't helping you - if you got a shot.

[JLStretton]

no it's over mate

just need to sort myself out now before I kick the bucket

[Red Genius]

no it's over mate

just need to sort myself out now before I kick the bucket

If it helps lad i'm in the same boat - and i've prolly drank a whole load more than you - i've not been sleep for two days, 2 bottles of wine, 16 bottles of stella and 8 cans of carling later

[JLStretton]

to be honest  I wouldn't drink weak stuff like that but if you really are at a low eb, then phone a mate etc, ive run out of ale so coming to the conclusion I might as well go bed

[AndyInVA]

that self harm issue is so out of my range of experience. I have no idea what even advice even to suggest.

i read the post secret web site most weeks

it does suggest that self harm is somewhat more common than might be imagined

good luck with it, it must be hard to fight what you dont understand

[Corkboy]

I think some of us have a 'genes' issue with alcohol. It's a bad hand to be dealt, but if that's the hand you got the only option is to fold. No middle ground. Anything else is deluding yourself.

That post characterises more than one regular poster on here as deluded. Such certainties aren't really helpful on this thread.

[AndyInVA]

That post characterises more than one regular poster on here as deluded. Such certainties aren't really helpful on this thread.

i had the same thought. i thought I might be a bit off.

But being told 'to fold', like you say, is not helpful one iota.

[Sir Harvest Fields]

If only it was as simple as that mate, we wouldnt be here.

[Corkboy]

Not saying it's simple. Hardest thing in the world. It's the truth though.

No. It isn't.

Michael Caine used to drink two bottles of vodka a day. Then he got married and went down to one glass of wine a day and he says he's been like that for thirty years. Some people can do it, some people can't.

Alcohol is a complicated substance for people. Contrary to what you think, you do not know the "truth" about the "hardest thing in the world". Stop talking shite.

[AndyInVA]

Not saying it's simple. Hardest thing in the world. It's the truth though.

its not the truth at all
its total shit
the world is not black and white even with addiction

just because you face issues with one element in life does not define you forever

im sorry, but i think your 'you just fold' statement is just bollox

sorry mate, thats my opinion

[AndyInVA]

I don't mean to cause offence, but I've seen too many people who can't handle alcohol who quit, go back to it thinking they can handle a couple of drinks here and there, and end up right back where they started. May not apply to everyone, but if you've got a problem with the stuff in the first place that problem won't go away.

well, plenty of people on here and in common society may agree with you

i dont feel that way and others in here dont either

this is a fairly educated experienced thread

blind ignorant stereotypical catch all one sentence fits all statements have no place here

[24/7]

Please Tom desist with the overly-simplistic and amateurish psychology that amounts to little more than sweeping statements. Your views, even if based on experience, cannot and do not cover everyone's reality.
No offence like.....

[Johnnyboy1973]

well, plenty of people on here and in common society may agree with you

i dont feel that way and others in here dont either

There's only three.

Two are in denial and the other one doesn't have an alcohol problem.

[24/7]

See, that's better.....personal testimony based on experience (although suggesting a genetic disposition towards alcoholism is a bit of a stretch but that is a different debate)....
 
Just remember that this is a very sensitive thread and even well-meant generalisations can do more harm than good. Just tread carefully is my advice. Ta.

[24/7]

PS if total abstinence works for you and improves your life, none of what has been said should detract from admiration deserved for kicking the demon. Nice one, sincerely.

[24/7]

As long as you are kicking it hard enough to keep the bastard down then it means you are winning. I won for another night (had three pints on Thursday that almost floored me!! Tolerance is greatly reduced, which is a good thing) - not sure I need to get to zero but it would be nice! Tonight was another in a rapidly increasing number of zero nights.
 
Whatever works......right? G'night!

[Tactical Genius]

Alcoholism is like a raging animal for me. I can tame it for periods of my life, but I know I can never completely tame it.

If I drink, I have to get so smashed I can't think anymore, unconscious, destroyed.

It might not work for everyone, but I set a day a week to go clean, call it my "do stuff"  day.

By the end of that day I was gagging I yell ya!
But I worked it up from there. Now I basically have two days a week when all that need is fulfilled and I drink myself unconscious.

But two is better than seven.

I still obsess obout alcohol, I have to have stashed enough by Friday to get smashed for the weekend and I literally worry if I don't have twice as much as I need.

Still, it's not two bottles of whiskey every day which is what I was doing at one point.

It's all about whether you and the amount of alcohol you are doing is registering as bad for you. If you feel you need to change, you can start to change, otherwise you have no chance.

Unfortunately, you need to hit rock bottom before you can come back up again. Look yourself in the eye, it's no one's fault but yours, and you are the man to sort it out properly.

Be strong.

[Sir Harvest Fields]

Ive been right at the very bottom mate , and i understand your post totally. That fear of not having enough alcohol for whatever you ' need ' to carry on is as scary as fuck. Always planning ahead for that next ' hit ' as it were. Stress like fuck to find money etc and worry like a bastard but when you know you have enough for the next day the world seems so much better. Its fucked up but its what happens.

Nice one Jim about your zero nights , ive had a few, not many , but a few. Ive had greatly reduced nights a plenty, and its all about keeping busy for me.

As for tomred, i see what you are trying to say but we are all vastly different mate. My brother once said ' why dont you just stop ' . Such a lack of understanding but it showed me how easy people think it is from the outside. They see a drunk at 11am and think ' fucking pisshead ' i used to as well, now i think how bad things have gotten for them and i guess its sadness and pity i feel and annoyance at the disgusted looks they get as they stagger down the street. Empty, soul-less exsistence they are living.

[realtarragona]

Please Tom desist with the overly-simplistic and amateurish psychology that amounts to little more than sweeping statements. Your views, even if based on experience, cannot and do not cover everyone's reality.
No offence like.....

Trying to convince an alcoholic that he can one day just have 'a few' and settle down is just as damaging as anything else anyone has said here re quitting. And this comment comes from tonnes of experience unfortunately but, 99,9% can't do it. I'm sorry but it's inevitable what happened with harvest. Quoting one of the few who managed it doesn't help but you seemingly have no problem with that.

[realtarragona]

I'm sorry but harvest saying hes back in trouble was inevitable. He clearly needs to quit and I don't think people saying that other people have managed it helps at all! Only trying to say whats good for him

[Sir Harvest Fields]

Looks like some posts have been deleted.

I was having these ' blips ' twice a day before, ive reduced it to one in a few months and tbf ive worked hard to get it down to that. If it was every saturday and Sunday id worry big time. It was a good day out that i let my guard down on. The ensuing problems were not really alcohol induced but one ive had whilst sober but its easier to think it was the drink. Its an easy excuse to blame things on the drink when really it was nothing to do with the drink but in actual fact that ' blip ' has helped me. It made me open up to my gf and ive now extra support and an understanding partner. We also addressed other issues that were on my mind. Ive now got someone who i can trust and open up to if i need to. My ideas may not endear me to you all but have always been open and frank on here ( i dunno who frank is though   ) and i will continue to do so.

I understand all the viewpoints and all the concerns and yes i got too complacent and its a mistake i will learn by. Im sure you will be sat there thinking ' yea, until next time you twat ' and thats maybe true , it also may NOT be true. This will be with me till the day i die, following me around like some fucking lost puppy , waiting to shit on my chips and piss on my face when it gets the chance, that much i know. Thats what we ALL KNOW. Thing is, having a few might not work, it might work. One blip does not constitute failure , its a reminder that its easy to falter and ive to work harder.

Excuse after excuse Harvest........ Yup. May well be excuses.

You HAVE to quit Harvest. No, i have to keep fighting. Quitting is not an option. Ive fought my whole fucking life for things and ill fight this one as well.

We will see you next time Harvest. Maybe you will, maybe you wont. If you do then i will thank you in advance for being there if i return in a stupor with my life in tatters.


Thing is, you will all be here waiting, anticipating , guessing, thinking about when ill be back. You will say its inevitable. I say im working hard to make sure that doesnt happen and have taken steps to address my problems that in the past have made me feel like drinking to blot it all out. Im not stupid, i know its hard, im the one fighting it but i was never one to take a kicking and give up. I can fight like a fucker and i will do this one way or another.


Thanks for listening,

Gotta drink my cuppa tea in my Maiden mug now ( better than frosty jacks in a pint glass eh   )

[24/7]

Carl, I can't see anything immediately obvious in the log about deletions from this thread, unless some posters have chosen self-moderation.


realtarragona, I see your point however I am concerned you might have missed mine, which was primarily aimed at tom who appears to have accepted what I was trying to say, ergo it is perhaps not after all in someone's best interests for someone else to tell them what is in their best interests, so I take what you're saying even if I politely decline to agree with it.


Prescriptive interventions into an emotional space are best reserved for professionally-trained individuals familiar with the circumstances and person or people involved.


I'm not a professional, so even though I feel close to Carl to some extent, I wouldn't wish to prescribe for him any course of action that falls into the "in your best interests" category. Instead, over the years, I have attempted to offer advice to Carl, more often than not with actual permission to advise having been sought, at other times I've 'moderated' him - and he knows it.


My intervention the other day was aimed at trying to keep things on track and suggesting to one user of this forum that perhaps sweeoing statements based on (apparently) only one's own experience might not be the best course of action.


If I've come across in any way as being supercilious or, worse, biased then I sincerely apologise to anyone concerned and I just want to re-emphasise my commitment to doing what little I can to facilitate a better life for people I care about and a better forum that people can trust to offer them a light when darkness falls.

[Sir Harvest Fields]

It just read strange thats all Jim, but thanks mate. I dont feel you have come across like that but after being in this thread so long i tend to have gotten to know posters and their writing/talking styles and see the comments based on previous posts etc. Christ, imagine a new user going in on say, page 200 and seeing Billy bollocking fuck out of one of us. We know thats how Billy is and his intentions, a new user may think ' WTF ' .

The joys of the internet eh

[Corkboy]

I'm not sure I follow this "zero intake or death" reasoning.

Life can be difficult for all sorts of people, and for all sorts of reasons. I am a firm believer in doing whatever it is you have to do to get to the next day without fucking anyone over. So if SHF or AndyinVA are in a stage where they are handling their relationship with alcohol well, I would say enjoy it. Maybe the doomsayers are right, and it will be a case of enjoy it while it lasts, but who gives a fuck? They aren't hurting anyone, and they could go under a bus tomorrow.

[Johnnyboy1973]

But, surely the point of the thread is to give the best advice possible and the best advice for someone who cant control their relationship with drink is not to drink.

Now, they dont have to follow that and more power to them, but that doesn't conclude that their approach is the best approach.

If it was then they both wouldn't have these "blips" and they'd have cracked it.

But, they haven't.

If anything the stance is taken not really in relation to them but rather those who are looking on and trying to understand what the best route is and whilst there may be the odd anomaly the overwhelming belief amongst alcholics is dont drink.

[Sir Harvest Fields]

When will we have ' Cracked it ' . When can we say we have beaten it...

[Johnnyboy1973]

When you're no longer coming in here saying drink is your mistress.

You can say you have beaten it when you control it and not vice versa - i.e. when you're no longer having blips.

Now, I'm not saying battles can't be won along the way - I went from getting out of my tree five times a week to once every eight to twelve weeks and before I fell the last time hadn't been pissed up and wild for about six months.

But, that's not the end game although it is closer to it.

[Sir Harvest Fields]

But how will we know we control it. Even if we are tee-total , as an alcoholic we are just one slip away from ruin until the day we die. We can never say we have beaten it because we never will until we stop breathing.

[Johnnyboy1973]

But how will we know we control it.

By staying on the wagon. That's how you control it. I control the fucker every day.

Even if we are tee-total , as an alcoholic we are just one slip away from ruin until the day we die. We can never say we have beaten it because we never will until we stop breathing.

Perhaps I'm using the incorrect tense. Does "beating" it seem more appropriate.

[Billy The Kid]

There's been some activity in this thread recently I see. Carl, by right I should bollock you. But I'm not going to. All I'll say is this: It was nailed on that this was going to happen you. As sure as night turns into day, I saw this coming. It was a dead cert. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one who foresaw it. I'm not trying to beat the "I told you so" drum here. That's not my intention. The only thing I'd like to do is help you come to the realization that you will never have a controllable relationship with alcohol. Ever. It's not even up for debate. You are, weather you like it or not, or choose to accept it or not, an addict.

I recall noticing a change for the better in you shortly after you got out of detox. You managed to get a job and you we're enjoying doing other activities IIRC. Then you revealed that you were still drinking. Albeit at a vastly reduced level of intake and frequency. I don't know if you can recall, but I pulled you on it at the time. You were assuring us at the time that it was only the odd couple of beers, and that you no longer felt the need to get smashed. And that work was now your priority and that all was hunky dory in the garden

I let it go in the end at the time for 3 reasons. Firstly, I didn't want to shit on your new rose bed so I figured 'fuck it, let it go'. The second reason I let it go was because I knew I was wasting my breath on you. You still hadn't fully owned up to the fact that you were an addict. The new job, the new hobbies, they all sounded great, but you were STILL DRINKING. That was when I, and I'm sure a few others, clocked that this was an inevitable eventuality. It was simply a matter of time before you went and fucked things up. But I decided to let it run its course. I had no other choice. Like I said, I was wasting my breath on you.

Managing addiction requires total acceptance that you're an addict. Total and complete acceptance. Which you've never really done IMO. Which brings me to this series of questions: Do you get it now? Now do you understand? Can you see why it was as plain as day to the rest of us that you were destined to fuck up? Can you now see that no matter how hard you try to curb it, or try to convince yourself that you've got it under control, that it will beat you in the end? Is it becoming apparent to you yet? That If you allow it in your life, you will lose. You wont win. Ever. Can you accept that? Can you accept that you're an addict? Can you accept that the only way that you can win is if you make a conscious decision to eradicate it from your life completely?

Is the penny dropping mate? How much more evidence do you need? How many more times do I and the rest of us need to tell you 'I told you so'. Do you think that we're talking out of our arse when we try to forewarn you? Do you think that we make this shit up? Do you think that the advice that we give you is pulled out of our arseholes? How much more advice do you want? How many more stories do you want us to read about alcohol continuing to fuck up your life? Seriously, do you get it or what?

Here's the bottom line mate. You are an addict. You have 2 choices. Either accept it and do something about it. Or let it continue to gradually kill you and ruin everything that's good in your life. That's what it boils down to. So I'm going to ask you to be truthful now. Be courteous to those in here who have done all they can to help you. Answer us 1 simple question. Where is Carl in terms of his acceptance of his addiction? That's all we want to know. Because if Carl don't accept it, then there is sweet cunting fuck all that any of us can do to help him. So without complicating matters any further, just tell us how close you are to accepting it. And be honest. Don't fucking bullshit us anymore

[Sir Harvest Fields]

My turn to pull you up Billy. I have never , EVER shied away from the fact im an addict. Not once. I have ' total acceptance ' of that fact. Say i hadnt had a blip for 20-30 years would you say the same. Would you say ' i fucking told you so '.


As for doing something about it , i think im doing something and any problems along the way are a learning curve.Now you say i have two choices and ive taken one. Ive accepted one and im doing something about it.


As for bullshitting you all, i actually find that offensive and fucking downright shitty as ive been nothing but honest. Im trying my best here ( obviously thats not good enough as im not following the ' proven ' methods . You may say im not doing my best, but thats for you to shout about. I know what im doing and im trying to keep you all informed of that.

Im not destined to do fuck all to be honest. I dont believe in destiny. I believe we make our own path and im trying my best to forge mine and to live as normal a life as i can. I see your argument and i understand what you say , but i say fuck it. I see the steps ive made in the last few years and ill make bigger steps towards getting myself sorted.


You can sit there and berate me all you like and this will happen until i die because thats the one and only time you will accept its done. to be honest im done here as there is tough love and there is patronisation and a belittling manner that frankly, i cant be fucked with. Im trying. Im trying like fuck here but its never enough.


You all take care and i hope you all deal with your efforts and problems in a safe and productive manner.


Im done.

Carl.

[Billy The Kid]

My turn to pull you up Billy. I have never , EVER shied away from the fact im an addict. Not once. I have ' total acceptance ' of that fact. Say i hadnt had a blip for 20-30 years would you say the same. Would you say ' i fucking told you so '.

With respect Carl. You have shied away from it at times. You returned to drinking shortly after you got out of detox. You then excused your drinking on the grounds that it was only moderate intake. As opposed to your usual heavy intake. You also said that things were fine because you no longer felt the need to get smashed. I can't recall the conversation word for word, but these were things that you were intimating. You talked a lot about your new job around that time, yet only talked about your continued drinking after I asked you about it. So again, with respect, it seemed very much like you were shying away from it. Perhaps not intentionally, but that's how it came across

As for bullshitting you all, i actually find that offensive and fucking downright shitty as ive been nothing but honest. Im trying my best here ( obviously thats not good enough as im not following the ' proven ' methods . You may say im not doing my best, but thats for you to shout about. I know what im doing and im trying to keep you all informed of that.

I wasn't accusing you of lying when I used the word bullshitting. I was intimating that you should stop talking about all of the problems that alcohol attracts into your life, and the consequences that it has on your relationships with people. Because its been done to death. Its tale of woe after tale of woe. It doesn't do any good. When I say stop bullshitting, I mean stop talking about all that is broke. Instead talk about how you intend to fix things. Because truth be told, I used to burn the ear off anyone willing to listen to me about my problems. In my head, talking about them was the way to supposedly deal with it all. And I'd still probably be moaning about my problems to this day, only thankfully, one day someone told me to shut the fuck up. It was the wake up I needed.

So to clarify, what I meant was, spare us anymore tales of woe. Put them on the scrap heap with the others. Instead of constantly talking about your life with alcohol in it, talk about how you intend to live without it. How you intend to progress. Alcoholics will complain about this that and everything if you let them. I used to do it. You do it too. I'm simply trying to make you aware of it. Focus on the positive. Not the negative. 

You can sit there and berate me all you like and this will happen until i die because thats the one and only time you will accept its done. to be honest im done here as there is tough love and there is patronisation and a belittling manner that frankly, i cant be fucked with. Im trying. Im trying like fuck here but its never enough.

Tough love? Yes. Undoubtedly. No addict has ever turned his life around without a healthy dose of tough love

Patronization and belittling? No sir. If you take it that way then you're wrong

[Sir Harvest Fields]

Im wrong and im done here. You want tales of woe ? Ive not even started on them. Ive just tried to be honest and i can point to that. All i can say is ill sort this, maybe not to your ideals but i will.


Later.

[TepidT2O]

Carl.

Agree or disagree with Billy, but count yourself fortunate you have who cares about you so much.

Such good friends are difficult to find and shouldn't be discarded over such a disagreement.

[Billy The Kid]

Im wrong and im done here

You're not "wrong". You're just ill. You have an illness. And I happen to have the same one as you

Its not about who's wrong or right, its about helping you get better

You want tales of woe ?

No. No I don't. I've heard enough of them

Ive not even started on them.

Good. Don't start them at all as a matter fact. That would be even better

Ive just tried to be honest and i can point to that.

Like I said in my previous post. I wasn't accusing you of being dishonest.

[Twelfth Man]

Gone from, 1 bottle of wine and raiding me Dad's Guinness, to a bottle of red and 4 bottles of Kronenberg. I asked a partner of me mates, who might be an alcoholic whether I'm heading that way she laughed. That is like twenty per cent of what me mate drinks. Fuck it, good times ahead. Accept they are pretty shit. And gradually getting shitter the more I drink. Books, books, books the only lifeline. Once they have stop having the same appeal what next? Buy a season ticket. Start going to matches. Get connected to shit bigger than your petty shyte. Plan.

[Red Genius]

Anybody who like me, cannot have one drink but needs the whole bar - whether that's just once a week / a month / or day - has a dangerous relationship with alcohol.

I never ever, have just a pint - anybody like that, shares my addiction.

Carls, for me is somewhat different and so i prefer not to comment on it.

[Red Genius]

So my Stoke adventure has come to an end, tomorrow i move out my £580 p/m apartment, having lost my job because i was signed off for too long with depression.

How do i deal with it? the good old fashion way.... beer and lots of it, on my last one after two days of binging - am supposed to be moving out tomorrow, but i've nowhere to go....

Anyone know of emergency accomodation? Still fucked with my possessions, but they are secondary.

[jason42]

So my Stoke adventure has come to an end, tomorrow i move out my £580 p/m apartment, having lost my job because i was signed off for too long with depression.

How do i deal with it? the good old fashion way.... beer and lots of it, on my last one after two days of binging - am supposed to be moving out tomorrow, but i've nowhere to go....

Anyone know of emergency accomodation? Still fucked with my possessions, but they are secondary.

Have you appealed the job loss? Taken them to a Tribunal?

[Red Genius]

Have you appealed the job loss? Taken them to a Tribunal?

Nah mate more hassle and cost that its worth mate - my old man is seathing as i got laid off while on a doctors note for depression, but fuck it.

Onwards and upwards hey?