Author Topic: Bolton wanderers  (Read 9382 times)

Offline spen71

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Bolton wanderers
« on: December 10, 2015, 05:18:21 pm »
Winding up petetion served.   173 million in debt

Surely it's only time before a biggish club will go bust

Offline jed the red

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2015, 05:25:03 pm »
This is from the BBC website, good to see there are parties waiting in the wings. Shocking situation, Bolton are one of the real old names of English Football and should not be in this state. The annoying part of it is if they do go into administration they are automatically deducted 12 points which will mean almost certain relegation, which means less money and less chance of getting back to where they feel they should be!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35061309


I hope they can get through this.

Offline HighSix

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2015, 05:30:05 pm »
How was this debt ran up? The stadium or just running costs over the years? Those incharge should be embarrassed.

Hope the businesses & individuals get any money owed.

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2015, 05:33:20 pm »
Got a bit of a soft spot for Bolton as I lived there in 95/96 working for JJB. It was the year they went to the Premier League. Made me a decent pay packet as I got commission on shop takings and we sold a shed load of the kit. Players came in regular. Hope they get someone to take over and dig them out of this hole

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2015, 05:36:52 pm »
How was this debt ran up? The stadium or just running costs over the years? Those incharge should be embarrassed.

Hope the businesses & individuals get any money owed.

They must have spent a lot on the wages of the old timers they constantly sign, that has to catch up sooner or later when you're out of the Prem for a good period of time.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2015, 05:41:52 pm »
Most of that debt is to the owner though isn't it? And he hasn't served the winding up, HMRC have who are owed money which is only a tiny % of that debt.

Offline AndyMuller

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2015, 05:42:40 pm »
I used to hate playing them away under Rafa, they always got the better of us somehow.

Offline C

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2015, 05:52:00 pm »
loved Maxi's last minute goal there and the 3-2 we had. hope they don't go bust, that goes for any club.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2015, 06:00:55 pm »
Basically the owner has been covering them being loss making for years (and it's got even worse without the Premier League money obviously). Now he's refusing to add more to their debt owed to him, so they're up a creek with paying bills and the taxman no longer gives football clubs the leeway he once did. Winding up order the result. Hope they pull through this quickly and can sort out the mess behind the scenes.
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Offline Keita Success

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2015, 06:30:55 pm »
loved Maxi's last minute goal there and the 3-2 we had. hope they don't go bust, that goes for any club.
Except United.

Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2015, 06:31:29 pm »
and Chelsea.
Been all over the world but Anfield is still my home.

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2015, 06:42:05 pm »
How was this debt ran up? The stadium or just running costs over the years? Those incharge should be embarrassed.

Hope the businesses & individuals get any money owed.
would wager its shit financial management, they gave their record signing a 3 year contract ffs, and pretty certain a lot of their players who came down didn't have relegation wage cuts in them, hence the likes of ngog staying there for ages

Offline youll never walk alone it

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2015, 06:51:33 pm »
Remember the heskey last min goal at the reebok, milan baros debut.
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Offline bird_lfc

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2015, 06:56:11 pm »
Sad to see. Credit to Neil Lennon for not moaning and just getting on with his job. Same with the players, too.

Gotta feel sorry for the fans. Would hate to be in this situation.  They were decent back in the Big Sam days.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2015, 06:57:25 pm »
Sad to see. Credit to Neil Lennon for not moaning and just getting on with his job. Same with the players, too.

Gotta feel sorry for the fans. Would hate to be in this situation.  They were decent back in the Big Sam days.

From Hierro, Djorkaeff and Okocha to this in just over 10 years

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2015, 07:13:34 pm »
Like most local clubs, I like Bolton.

Be a crying shame to see such a historic club going down.

Used to love travelling to Bolton and Blackburn - good local fixtures only down the road from Liverpool.
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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2015, 07:56:49 pm »
Crying shame.

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Offline Persephone

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2015, 09:09:01 pm »
I’ve plenty links to the clubs playing and backroom staff as many on here know thank you very much. Fair enough, I admire your optimism. But you’re absolute ostriches if you think this squad, even with 2 or 3 new, “cut price” players with potential get us anywhere close

Offline RedSince86

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2015, 09:38:56 pm »
Phil Gartside = Peter Ridsdale MK2

I read in a article i think last year how was always fed up having to answer questions on why the debt was so high,i also remember him calling for the Premier League to be a shut shop and to rid it of relegtion.

Let's hope they can be saved,one of the historically traditional clubs in England.
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Offline red vinyl

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2015, 09:43:04 pm »
Proper football club,have a lot of friends who live there. A genuine top 6 Side before fat Sam jumped ship to the toon. I hope they find a way to stay in this division.

Offline armchair-fan

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2015, 10:53:53 pm »
A genuine top 6 Side before fat Sam jumped ship to the toon.

Finished 6th once in 8 years of Hoofball under Fat Sam.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2015, 10:55:06 pm »
Finished 6th once in 8 years of Hoofball under Fat Sam.

Weren't a regular top 6 club but I remember them having a few European campaigns. Lofty heights compared to what they are now

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2015, 11:44:31 pm »
Kevin Davies. Shithouse
Dean Holdsworth. Shithouse
Fat Sam. Fat Shithouse

Excluding that, I've no dislike for Bolton. It's the fans I feel sorry for.
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Offline C

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2015, 11:44:57 pm »
what about Diouf?
People still underrate Cristiano Ronaldo.

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2015, 11:45:48 pm »
what about Diouf?

Biggest shithouse to walk the earth. Didn't think I needed to mention him.
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Offline ArthurDent

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2015, 02:10:24 pm »
Credit to Neil Lennon for not moaning
I suppose there has to be a first for everything.
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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2015, 02:26:35 pm »
Sad news....its the supporters of the club who i feel for....there'll be families going back many generations who have all been fans of the club....let down by itinerant / incompetent management and overpaid shithouse players and staff
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline B0151?

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2015, 02:33:25 pm »
Phil Gartside = Peter Ridsdale MK2

I read in a article i think last year how was always fed up having to answer questions on why the debt was so high,i also remember him calling for the Premier League to be a shut shop and to rid it of relegtion.

Let's hope they can be saved,one of the historically traditional clubs in England.

He's seriously ill think I read

Offline ManchesterBlue

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2015, 11:57:08 am »
He's seriously ill think I read
Phil Gobshite, sorry, Gartside is supposed to be seriously ill. Obviously I wish no ill on the chap but he's the reason for Bolton's failure. People were asking questions about the running of Bolton years ago, as this piece by David Conn in 2007 shows:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2007/nov/07/twentyquestionsforboltonma

It was referenced in this article by Daniel Taylor from last year:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/oct/11/phil-gartside-bolton-wanderers-abyss

As usual, it's the fans who get the shitty end of the stick while people like Gartside, Allardyce and the leeches that are the agents they used get rich. But then I remember that Lee Mason and his family are fans so I don't feel quite as sorry for them.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2015, 11:58:15 am »
£170m



Wow
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Offline 12C

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2015, 12:13:32 pm »
Talking with a mate who follows them. He was saying that they have a 5star hotel and a state of the art training complex all on site. I would have thought they would they would be a prime candidate for foreign investment. I know eh don't have a massive fanbase or catchment, but they got good attendances in the premier league, and success these days is down to TV rights. Compare them to our neighbours who have a decrepit stadium, rent their training ground, and have the Winslow Hotel across the road, yet are constantly being linked with a takeover. I am not taking the piss here, it just seems to be crazy economics. Mismanagement may be the problem, but if you are looking to do a takeover a la Cardiff or Hull then they are a better bang for buck
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Offline rowan_d

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2015, 02:28:55 pm »
Talking with a mate who follows them. He was saying that they have a 5star hotel and a state of the art training complex all on site. I would have thought they would they would be a prime candidate for foreign investment. I know eh don't have a massive fanbase or catchment, but they got good attendances in the premier league, and success these days is down to TV rights. Compare them to our neighbours who have a decrepit stadium, rent their training ground, and have the Winslow Hotel across the road, yet are constantly being linked with a takeover. I am not taking the piss here, it just seems to be crazy economics. Mismanagement may be the problem, but if you are looking to do a takeover a la Cardiff or Hull then they are a better bang for buck
You'd have to take on that debt though, no? Is that how Chelsea got sold for a pound, Ken Bates took on the debt from owners who just wanted it off their hands?

Also not sure what percentage of revenue comes from merchandising, but I imagine Hull and Cardiff have been somewhat fucked by the lack of sponsorship and merchandise boost and the same would happen to Bolton. Everton aren't one of the top 5 or so in that aspect obviously, but far healthier than those others I assume.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 02:31:24 pm by rowan_d »

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2015, 07:58:24 pm »
Talking with a mate who follows them. He was saying that they have a 5star hotel and a state of the art training complex all on site. I would have thought they would they would be a prime candidate for foreign investment. I know eh don't have a massive fanbase or catchment, but they got good attendances in the premier league, and success these days is down to TV rights. Compare them to our neighbours who have a decrepit stadium, rent their training ground, and have the Winslow Hotel across the road, yet are constantly being linked with a takeover. I am not taking the piss here, it just seems to be crazy economics. Mismanagement may be the problem, but if you are looking to do a takeover a la Cardiff or Hull then they are a better bang for buck

Not seen the training complex there.  The academy setup was pretty piss poor facility wise last year from what I  saw.  A few portacabins and not many pitches at all - all seemed to me 3/ 4G.  Maybe that's changed.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2015, 08:21:18 pm »
would wager its shit financial management, they gave their record signing a 3 year contract ffs, and pretty certain a lot of their players who came down didn't have relegation wage cuts in them, hence the likes of ngog staying there for ages

They were heavily indebted when they were in the PL too, as I recall David Conn and the Swiss Ramble in an excellent piece wrote about them quite a bit. The Swiss Ramble noted back in 2010, that Bolton lost £35m during that year and their net debt was £93m, due to low turnover and a high wage bill. In 2006, their debt was at £29m, but it tripled, rising from £64m to £93m between 2009 and 2010 alone. As Swiss Ramble stated in the 2010 article, Bolton were paying around £4.5m a year in interest payments on an annual turnover of only £60m.  Originally, most of their debt when Eddie Davies bought the team, was accumulated from building the Reebok Stadium and the adjoining hotel complex. The later debt largely grew from wage increases and player amortization. By 2008/09, 72% of Bolton's income was TV based. Only Wigan were higher (81%)

Their 'model' if you will was a bit akin to Fulham's for a while: try to squeeze the last bit of brilliance from aging players with quality (Okocha, Djorkaeff), with hardworking castoffs (Davies, Stelios etc.). The problem they ran into, at a more extreme sense than Fulham, was that since they hardly developed any young players from their Academy of any worth to the first team (Nolan being an exception), they were constantly reliant on paying high wages for players mostly on frees or cut-price deals, who little to no resale value. Ironically, the Swiss Ramble noted back in 2010, that the two clubs outside of the Top 4 who had the biggest debt were Fulham and Bolton.


The most amount of money they ever recouped for a player was Anelka (£15m) followed by Cahill for £7m, with the latter leaving at a cut-price given he was going to be able to leave on a free at the end of the season. But even those two players still rank as the second and third highest fees that Bolton ever paid (£8m for Anelka and £5m for Cahill) for a player. The third biggest fee Bolton have ever received is still Jason McAteer in 1995 (£4.5m)!

Their record signing (Elmander at £8.2m) was 27 when they signed him. N'Gog is tied for fifth in the highest transfer fees ever at £4m. Given that Allardyce had plenty of control over every aspect, it was always not going to take much for that ship to rock. Once Sammy Lee came in and tried to play possession football, they struggled and having the likes of Owen Coyle and Gary Megson in charge wasn't going to help, as at least Allardyce was progressive in the statistical and sports science end that gave Bolton an advantage in pulling above their weight. 

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2015, 08:26:41 pm »
You'd have to take on that debt though, no? Is that how Chelsea got sold for a pound, Ken Bates took on the debt from owners who just wanted it off their hands?

Also not sure what percentage of revenue comes from merchandising, but I imagine Hull and Cardiff have been somewhat fucked by the lack of sponsorship and merchandise boost and the same would happen to Bolton. Everton aren't one of the top 5 or so in that aspect obviously, but far healthier than those others I assume.
think the owner said he'd write off the debt to get a sale done?

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2015, 09:31:51 pm »
Sad news....its the supporters of the club who i feel for....there'll be families going back many generations who have all been fans of the club....let down by itinerant / incompetent management and overpaid shithouse players and staff
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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2018, 10:36:19 am »
#Sausages

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2018, 10:46:56 am »
Help them Wobbly Sam, you're their only hope.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2018, 11:14:35 am »
Facing administration. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45479624

Not surprising. They were massively in debt even when Allardyce was there. If anything, I'm surprised it has taken this long

Offline dudleyred

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Re: Bolton wanderers
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2018, 11:24:23 am »
Not surprising. They were massively in debt even when Allardyce was there. If anything, I'm surprised it has taken this long

Timing is shit given their start

They may have seen it as the season they can take the points hit and stay up

Sad for the fans though