Topic: "Top scorer" rule should change

[spider-neil]

for the record torres' record from the penalty spot (at AM) reads like owen's i.e. roughly about 50% scored so I'd rather torres not take them thank you very much.

[phoenix wright]

Personal titles without team tittles are not important.

If someone scores 25 goals an his team win PL, great. If other one scores 26 goals and his team loose PL... take for sure that he would change that "golden boot" for PL cup.


PS: I think it will go to Luis Fabiano. Many goals, but not team titles.

[bigman1981]

For all you lot who say that a goal is a goal, that's rubbish, because in England, Spain, Italy, France and Germany a goal is 2 goals. In a few more leagues a goal is 1.5 goals. Only in the lower ranked UEFA leagues a goal is a goal. That's the Golden Boot rule.

I don't understand this mate...

...please explain.

[Sir Harvest Fields]

I don't understand this mate...

...please explain.

yes i can. hes talking gibberish and had a skinful

[phoenix wright]

I don't understand this mate...

...please explain.

Golden boot counts by "points". On PL, Calcio and La Liga, a goal is two points. But in Netherlands or Germany, a goal is 1.5 points. And other lower leagues, a goal is 1 point.

[Libero]

Just one. What utter garbage.

quality.

But a bit harsh

[ataturk05]

Anyone got a current standings table for the golden boot award?

[ntwo]

In my opinion penalty is as difficult as scoring in the normal way.

[Daranoza]

A goal's a goal. Fair enough, scoring 10 from open play seems better than scoring 10 penalties but, at the end of the day, they count just as much as each other!

[lamonti]

should they take away tap-ins? and 2 points for a shot from outside the box?

three points for kicking it over the bar? we might be onto something here.

also, liverpool should get extra points in the league when they draw.

[xan21uk]

goals shouldnt count unless they are scored by a liverpool player, or against Manure. Also goals should be taken away from Ronaldo every time he is a c*nt, hopefully the FA will bring this rule in soon. Short of these improvements i guess we will have to stick with counting how many times a player kicks or heads a ball into the net and add em up at the end, then call the top scorer the player who gets the most.

[Sir Harvest Fields]

goals shouldnt count unless they are scored by a liverpool player, or against the Mancs. Also goals should be taken away from Ronaldo every time he is a c*nt, hopefully the FA will bring this rule in soon. Short of these improvements i guess we will have to stick with counting how many times a player kicks or heads a ball into the net and add em up at the end, then call the top scorer the player who gets the most.

fuck yea. lets get this sorted

[lethe]

goals shouldnt count unless they are scored by a liverpool player, or against the Mancs. Also goals should be taken away from Ronaldo every time he is a c*nt, hopefully the FA will bring this rule in soon. Short of these improvements i guess we will have to stick with counting how many times a player kicks or heads a ball into the net and add em up at the end, then call the top scorer the player who gets the most.

We should start a petition.

[zjim]

i hate people who only want our players to get any credit for scoring.  It sucks yes but Ronaldo is, for this season, better than torres

[b_joseph]

Penalties are far from being a certain goal.

CRonaldo is a special special player who scores a ton of goals from a area of the pitch that shouldnt allow him to.

Plus, Individual leaders tables dont mean anything. So its doesnt really matter who is top of it unless that persons team wins the Title.

[Robbies5th]

A number of years back UEFA changed the Golden Boot rule with a league coefficient to reflect that goals are harder to come by in tougher leagues. But I still think that the rule is far from perfect, because it counts penalties equally, although they are almost certain goals. Take Ronaldo's and Adebayor's penalties away, and Henry's and Nistelrooy's in the past, and see how many goals they have. It pisses me off when they compare Torres' goals with those above, it's nonsense.

A new rule should be made to count penalties as half a goal. Any thoughts?

A penalty is a goal, so it should count the same. We are only discussing this because Torres is behind Ronaldo. If it were the other way around you wouldn't hear a word.

[OsirisMVZ]

God, that original post was made of fail.

A goal is a goal. A 65 yarder from Xabi Alonso is just as valuable as a deflection off of Flamini's back from 1 yard out. You don't get any 'bonus points' in the real game of football, so why should the European Golden Boot be any different? Afonso Alves scored 8 more league goals than Totti did last season, yet Totti won the 'top scorer' award, which was a total lack of respect to Alves and the Dutch League. 1 goal should count as 1 goal for the Golden Boot. I understand that UEFA want the 'top players' to get the award so it looks like they're constantly playing every other player out of their own skins, but come on, it's really unfair on the other players who make an effort which isn't accounted for.

If you scored 35 league goals in the Portuguese League, but Michael Owen scores 25 league goals in that same season, he gets the award instead of you. You could have lead your team on to the Title, whereas Michael Owen just scrapes his team away from relegation, yet he's the one praised instead of you. How would you feel? It's a totally unfair award.

And yes, Fernando Torres for the Golden Boot.

[El Jeficito]

i hate people who only want our players to get any credit for scoring.  It sucks yes but Ronaldo is, for this season, better than torres

u been on the glue lad? 20 league goals in your first season as well as being injured for a few games obviously isnt good enough for you. you may as well sit in the stretford end sunday..........

[OsirisMVZ]

It's already been stated that Liverpool pay Atletico €250,000 for every block of 15 goals Torres scores for Liverpool. If he took pens, we'd have to pay more money more quickly. That's why he doesn't take them. Gerrard is fine at them, anyway.

[BingBangBosh]

u been on the glue lad? 20 league goals in your first season as well as being injured for a few games obviously isnt good enough for you. you may as well sit in the stretford end sunday..........

Ronaldo has played less matches and scored more goals in the league this season, from a less central position, with a better spread of home and away goals, a better spread of goals in total for the season (Torres' three hattricks against Ronaldo's one) plus adding more assists. Add to the fact he's the joint current top scorer in the Champions league with less time on the pitch than the guy with the same goals as him.

Ronaldo has had a better season than Torres.

[phoenix wright]

Or, Torres could work on his penalties so he has a chance of scoring more goals. How about that? Taking penalties is a skill in itself not a cheat.

Or Gerrard could continue scoring from penalty kick... what's the problem with that? Why to change things when go fine?

Best thing what Torres can do is forget about golden boot and continue playing like he's doing. If he wins it, good. If he doesn't, good too.

[Jack Slater]

Ronaldo has played less matches and scored more goals in the league this season, from a less central position, with a better spread of home and away goals, a better spread of goals in total for the season (Torres' three hattricks against Ronaldo's one) plus adding more assists. Add to the fact he's the joint current top scorer in the Champions league with less time on the pitch than the guy with the same goals as him.

Ronaldo has had a better season than Torres.

I quite agree.

Utd are a one man team.


PS:  Rather than create special rules to ensure a Liverpool victory, just ignore it, and call it a meaningless trinket when a Liverpool player doesnt win it.  Remind people that it's a team game, and that they are fools for being obsessed with individual awards.

Besides, Pepe's in the running for a hat-trick of Golden Gloves awards

[El Jeficito]

Ronaldo has played less matches and scored more goals in the league this season, from a less central position, with a better spread of home and away goals, a better spread of goals in total for the season (Torres' three hattricks against Ronaldo's one) plus adding more assists. Add to the fact he's the joint current top scorer in the Champions league with less time on the pitch than the guy with the same goals as him.

Ronaldo has had a better season than Torres.

fair point mate but i hate the manc twat

[BingBangBosh]

fair point mate but i hate the manc twat

That's what I suspected.

[Billy The Kid]

to be honest I dont think Torres needs a golden boot award to prove his worth. He has already proven his value in gold to Liverpool. Fuck what the media say, its a rather trivial subject IMO

[sull14]

would be unreal if Torres wins it..fingers crossed..what a first season that would be..

[Franck Le Poof]

Ronaldo has played less matches and scored more goals in the league this season, from a less central position, with a better spread of home and away goals, a better spread of goals in total for the season (Torres' three hattricks against Ronaldo's one) plus adding more assists. Add to the fact he's the joint current top scorer in the Champions league with less time on the pitch than the guy with the same goals as him.

Ronaldo has had a better season than Torres.

Where are you getting some of your facts?
According to UEFA, in the CL;
Fernando Torres:
6 Appearances, 526 minutes played, 5 goals
Cristiano Ronaldo:
7 Appearances, 627 minutes played, 6 goals, 1 assist

Hardly the 'same' amount of time on the pitch, 101 minutes based on this season's average is more than enough for Torres to equal or better Ronaldo's number of goals in the CL.

In the PL;

Cristiano Ronaldo in the league according to Sky Sports (apologies, they do not have the amount of minutes played so all I have to base it on is appearances)
23 appearances+2 substitute appearances; 22 goals

Fernando Torres
22 appearances+3 as sub: 20 goals


Just thought I'd point the above out because it just seemed like your post had a few inaccuracies, but otherwise was well thought out and well worded. Fair play.

[phoenix wright]

Ronaldo has played less matches and scored more goals in the league this season, from a less central position, with a better spread of home and away goals, a better spread of goals in total for the season (Torres' three hattricks against Ronaldo's one) plus adding more assists. Add to the fact he's the joint current top scorer in the Champions league with less time on the pitch than the guy with the same goals as him.

Ronaldo has had a better season than Torres.

And having a much worse shoots/goals ratio. Important thing too. Because Ronaldo scores a lot, but it's true too that he shoots a lot, being maybe the player on PL that shoots more times (sometimes denying other mates to score). Torres scores a lot too, but he doesn't shoot too much times. He use to finish many matches with porcenages around 40%. Best striker I ever seen was Ronaldo (the brazilian one) and when he was top-scorer he used to be at 30% percentages. Cristiano last match scored one from how much attempts... six? seven? ten?

For me Ronaldo will be a deserved golden ball if the Mancs win some tittle, I have doubts about golden boot because I think will win it Luis Fabiano. But talking about scoring three hat-tricks against one as something bad... is a no-sense. I could say it on the other way and make from it something good instead of something bad, like: "Torres is able to score more goals on a match than Ronaldo". Moreover, Torres' hat-tricks were used to win matches... 3-2 for exemple.

[Franck Le Poof]

In all competitions;
Cristiano Ronaldo: 204 shots, 31 goals
Fernando Torres: 101 shots, 27 goals


Just thought I'd add that to back phoenix up

[Billy The Kid]

would be unreal if Torres wins it..fingers crossed..what a first season that would be..

It would be quiet an achievement if he did do it, but if he doesnt i wont be dissapointed. Hes the business with or without a golden boot. Im actually more eager for Pepe to land his hatrick of golden gloves in his first 3 seasons. Now that would be an achievment of note. Our gayness for Nando often overshadows Pepe at times.

[phoenix wright]

In all competitions;
Cristiano Ronaldo: 204 shots, 31 goals
Fernando Torres: 101 shots, 24 goals


Just thought I'd add that to back phoenix up

And Torres scored 27...

So Torres goals/shoots ratio is around 27% accod¡rding to that. Ronaldo is around 15%.

Of course it will be a brilliant season for both. With or without the golden boots or golden balls.

[Franck Le Poof]

And Torres scored 27...

That's what I meant to write
Whoops.

[BingBangBosh]

Where are you getting some of your facts?
According to UEFA, in the CL;
Fernando Torres:
6 Appearances, 526 minutes played, 5 goals
Cristiano Ronaldo:
7 Appearances, 627 minutes played, 6 goals, 1 assist

Hardly the 'same' amount of time on the pitch, 101 minutes based on this season's average is more than enough for Torres to equal or better Ronaldo's number of goals in the CL.

In the PL;

Cristiano Ronaldo in the league according to Sky Sports (apologies, they do not have the amount of minutes played so all I have to base it on is appearances)
23 appearances+2 substitute appearances; 22 goals

Fernando Torres
22 appearances+3 as sub: 20 goals


Just thought I'd point the above out because it just seemed like your post had a few inaccuracies, but otherwise was well thought out and well worded. Fair play.

I was comparing Ronaldo to Messi in the CL, not Torres, as I said I was comparing him with the player on the same number of goals as him.

Torres has played 24 in the league from the start, three as sub. Ronaldo has started 23, two as sub.

Please don't try to correct me when you're the one with the incorrect stats.


Phoenix Wright, the fact that he shoots a lot is a pointless argument. It's the goals that go in that matter.

[Franck Le Poof]

I was comparing Ronaldo to Messi in the CL, not Torres, as I said I was comparing him with the player on the same number of goals as him.

Torres has played 24 in the league from the start, three as sub. Ronaldo has started 23, two as sub.

Please don't try to correct me when you're the one with the incorrect stats.

Wasn't cheekily trying to correct you mate, I think you took it as if I was saying it with a touch of malice. They just hadn't agreed with the stats I found. I misread your post, apologies.
And obviously soccernet hasn't updated the stats in a while then...

[BingBangBosh]

Wasn't cheekily trying to correct you mate, they just hadn't agreed with the stats I found. I misread your post, apologies.

I took my stats from your own site, just to double check.

[BingBangBosh]

By the way, nothing I'm saying here is an attempt to denigrate Torres. He's a wonderful player, and I'd swap him for Tevez or Saha in a flash.

[Franck Le Poof]

Must have been doing it half-assed then, I can't focus, 300 is playing in the background

[phoenix wright]

Phoenix Wright, the fact that he shoots a lot is a pointless argument. It's the goals that go in that matter.

Same or less pointless as the number of matches they played or which one scored more or less hat-tricks (this last one is ridiculous pointless to say the truth)...

[BingBangBosh]

Same or less pointless as the number of matches they played or which one scored more or less hat-tricks (this last one is ridiculous pointless to say the truth)...

I was simply using the hattricks point to show that he scores in fits and bursts, whereas Ronaldo has been more consistent throughout the season. Torres is in blinding form recently though, no debating that.

[Franck Le Poof]

I was simply using the hattricks point to show that he scores in fits and bursts, whereas Ronaldo has been more consistent throughout the season. Torres is in blinding form recently though, no debating that.

Fits and bursts?
Torres throughout this season (trying my best to pay attention as I do this this time );
I'm writing this as N=No goals Scored in Appearance G=Goal(s) scored during appearance

N N G N G N N N G N N G N G G G N G N G G N G G N N N G N G N G G G

I think it is safe to say that after he was really settling into the squad he more or less found some consistency in his scoring. I think it is more fair to point out that generally in matches he wasn't scoring in, we were hardly running rampant.

I'm not sure if by looking at his trend that I've written above you define it as "fits and bursts", but I do not. To each their own, though.