Topic: Stevie Gerrard - The Manager Watch

[SenorGarcia]

Shades of Atletico the way Stevie has set Rangers up since he took over.

  shades of Atletico? Really?

Bloody hell Scottish football is poor. No way that I’ll be putting myself through watching this shite week in week out.

No idea why Stevie took this job on, almost strikes as arrogance as much as I love him. Would have been far better staying put and learning from one of the very best managers in the world right now.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I think it's probably a bit early to determine that.

This is the third competitive game of his managerial career; let's see where he and Rangers are in twelve months time.

You're not wrong to take that view. But in my experience and research, what you see is what you get with a coach. They've gone through their playing life with good and bad experiences and the subsequent observations, and when they get to be coaches, they have a set of ideas they think are the "right way" of doing things. And that set of ideas doesn't really change.

It's entirely possibly you're right, and that with better players he'll do things differently. I'm saying the probability that this isn't his real vision of the game is historically low.

[tubby]

Wasn't it Ian Holloway who was a basic 442 guy and then made efforts to adapt to 433/4231 and a more continental style when he saw football was heading in that direction?

[Pradan]

You're not wrong to take that view. But in my experience and research, what you see is what you get with a coach. They've gone through their playing life with good and bad experiences and the subsequent observations, and when they get to be coaches, they have a set of ideas they think are the "right way" of doing things. And that set of ideas doesn't really change.

It's entirely possibly you're right, and that with better players he'll do things differently. I'm saying the probability that this isn't his real vision of the game is historically low.

From all accounts, Klopp in his first year or so at Mainz was very different to what he is now. How about before making any judgements, we wait for Gerrard to get further into his managerial career?

Who do you want to win the SPL title this season by the way? The Liverpool legend, or Rodgers?

[Djimi Smicer34]

You're not wrong to take that view. But in my experience and research, what you see is what you get with a coach. They've gone through their playing life with good and bad experiences and the subsequent observations, and when they get to be coaches, they have a set of ideas they think are the "right way" of doing things. And that set of ideas doesn't really change.

It's entirely possibly you're right, and that with better players he'll do things differently. I'm saying the probability that this isn't his real vision of the game is historically low.

You have probably forgotten more about coaching than I will ever know PoP so I can accept that, in pretty much all likelihood, your first impression of him is a lot more informed and accurate than my own.

My viewpoint when he was first linked with the job there was that it would be a mistake for Gerrard to take it at this stage of his career and I haven't changed my mind on that - my fingers are crossed for him but I don't think Rangers have the resources to overhaul Celtic any time soon and that will ultimately be what Gerrard is judged on.  I'd just like to see him find his feet a bit more as a manager before drawing any conclusions just yet - I'm not hoping for or expecting anything to suggest he's one day going to be Liverpool manager; in all honesty, I think he would have been better off sticking around as a coach at Kirkby for the timebeing if that is his ultimate ambition as a manager.  But I don't want to say he's a Hodgson-type just yet, maybe that is the ilk of manager he will become, I'm just hoping for an awful lot more than that from someone whose finger should be on the pulse of the way football is evolving and who I would like to think is aspiring to be a lot better than that.

[Upinsmoke]

Gerrard's approach is a pragmatic one. I've heard him speak a few times as Rangers manager and he always trots out the line about if you can't win it's important to not get beat and he's right but he doesn't over commit when playing. He's been heavily influenced by Ged and Rafa, by all accounts enjoyed his time under Hodgson and we know of his admiration for Mourinho.

His rangers team look relatively organised, clear shape (which rafa always banged on about) full backs offer support but they rarely get ahead of the ball. I don't think he's the next Klopp or Guardiola but there's nothing wrong with that. You do what you do to win and if he does that and it works he won't be arsed and neither will the fans of the teams he's manager of.

[puroresu_kid]

the union jacks and god save the queen is really nauseating.

Get used to it. They are crazy.

Look they even took a union jack to an away game to put on the physio's table.

https://twitter.com/ViewfromGorgie/status/1026101047339745284?s=19

Why Gerrard got himself involved with such madness is beyond me.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Wasn't it Ian Holloway who was a basic 442 guy and then made efforts to adapt to 433/4231 and a more continental style when he saw football was heading in that direction?

Changing formations isn't changing systems. Formations are just where players are on the field. But yes, Holloway switched from a long ball style to a more possession-oriented style. It's not impossible, but it's incredibly rare, as I said.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Gerrard's approach is a pragmatic one. I've heard him speak a few times as Rangers manager and he always trots out the line about if you can't win it's important to not get beat and he's right but he doesn't over commit when playing. He's been heavily influenced by Ged and Rafa, by all accounts enjoyed his time under Hodgson and we know of his admiration for Mourinho.

His rangers team look relatively organised, clear shape (which rafa always banged on about) full backs offer support but they rarely get ahead of the ball. I don't think he's the next Klopp or Guardiola but there's nothing wrong with that. You do what you do to win and if he does that and it works he won't be arsed and neither will the fans of the teams he's manager of.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what he's doing, and I've more respect for him for doing it that way than for any of his peers who went in and tried to be the next Klopp or Guardiola and then came a cropper.

I don't think he'll fail or succeed - I don't know how things will go for him, so I haven't made that judgment. My only reservation is I think he was a bit too hasty to strike out on his own instead of staying with Klopp and learning about the job away from the fishbowl of management.

My part of the debate is simply that - as a more than likely future Liverpool manager - what we're seeing with Rangers is possibly what we'll see if and when he becomes Liverpool manager. And given that we're now being used to high-pressing, high-possession, quick and mobile Liverpool teams, if this is how Gerrard sees the game, it'll be a bit of a culture shock.

[PoetryInMotion]

They're playing much the same way as they did under Murtry, just better and with slightly better players

Last season they conceded 50 goals, so the first instinct for Gerrard is likely to come in and fix the defense and win the confidence of fans. Even if that meant to play a lower block. Even if he doesn't play an expansive game, with a few more of 'his' players and over the course of time, he may be able to coach a better attacking style than now. As you know, it doesn't have to be black and white in terms of attack vs defensive style and defense is the easier aspect to coach when a new manager comes in.

[archie]

Always good to see Rangers drop points.

[Linudden]

Desperately unlucky considering how they had controlled the game against last four seasons' 2nd-placed team, but in the end all those minutes one man down clearly took its toll.

Either way, if they play like this away from home with 10 men at Aberdeen, they'll have a lot better season than last term. Maribor tie will be huge for them. European revenue of about £5 million for the group stages would really ease a lot of financial tension for Rangers. Of course they'd be bottom seeded against even stronger teams in the final round, but you never know - Aberdeen put on a big fight against Burnley and at the moment Rangers look the better team out of those two.

[Geormajesty]

My part of the debate is simply that - as a more than likely future Liverpool manager - what we're seeing with Rangers is possibly what we'll see if and when he becomes Liverpool manager. And given that we're now being used to high-pressing, high-possession, quick and mobile Liverpool teams, if this is how Gerrard sees the game, it'll be a bit of a culture shock.

Is it really more than likely though? Under current ownership we've slowly developed a reputation for being methodical and well-informed in our decision making. I can't imagine we'd be willing to hire a manager so unsuited to our style of play, given our players have been bought with that in mind, just because of his history at the club.

FSG have been burned from hiring a club legend before, I don't think they'd do it hastily again.

[PhaseOfPlay]

You have probably forgotten more about coaching than I will ever know PoP so I can accept that, in pretty much all likelihood, your first impression of him is a lot more informed and accurate than my own.

My viewpoint when he was first linked with the job there was that it would be a mistake for Gerrard to take it at this stage of his career and I haven't changed my mind on that - my fingers are crossed for him but I don't think Rangers have the resources to overhaul Celtic any time soon and that will ultimately be what Gerrard is judged on.  I'd just like to see him find his feet a bit more as a manager before drawing any conclusions just yet - I'm not hoping for or expecting anything to suggest he's one day going to be Liverpool manager; in all honesty, I think he would have been better off sticking around as a coach at Kirkby for the timebeing if that is his ultimate ambition as a manager.  But I don't want to say he's a Hodgson-type just yet, maybe that is the ilk of manager he will become, I'm just hoping for an awful lot more than that from someone whose finger should be on the pulse of the way football is evolving and who I would like to think is aspiring to be a lot better than that.

I'm being very "glass-half-empty" on it, Djimi, mate.

We have a current and past manager who believed in "Pressing", with slightly different interpretations of the tactic. We're now used to that, as a fan base. "Pressing" takes a lot of physical effort, and although the concepts are simple, it requires a lot of rehearsal so that everyone understands the cues of how, where and when to press. So it takes up a LOT of training time to get right. Possession football takes a lot of time to get right too, especially if you don't have the players to do it 100% of the time. So you have to really invest in those principles as a coach, because you'll be spending a hell of a lot of time practicing, refining and improving them, depending on the evolution of the game from season-to-season. That's why I don't see Gerrard changing from what he's doing now, because to become a "Pressing" coach takes a big time and energy investment from the coach, so most "Pressing" coaches tend to be both zealous about it, and also to have believed in it from the start. Gerrard hasn't started his career as a club manager with a "Pressing" style, so I'm guessing it's not what he believes is the most sustainable way to play the game. And as most managers don't change their game principles throughout their career, I'm also thinking that this is what we'll see for most of Gerrard's management career.

There's nothing wrong with what he's doing, btw - I'm not judging Gerrard on it. But from our point of view, and with a view to him being possibly the next Liverpool manager, we might see a clash of styles when he gets here. That's all I'm saying.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Is it really more than likely though? Under current ownership we've slowly developed a reputation for being methodical and well-informed in our decision making. I can't imagine we'd be willing to hire a manager so unsuited to our style of play, given our players have been bought with that in mind, just because of his history at the club.

FSG have been burned from hiring a club legend before, I don't think they'd do it hastily again.

You could be right.

But when the time comes, there will be a BIG groundswell of support for Gerrard as manager, and they'd have to be strong not to even consider him, for fear of their man not working out, and the support turning against them for it (and turning against the new man).

[ScottishGoon]

Last season they conceded 50 goals, so the first instinct for Gerrard is likely to come in and fix the defense and win the confidence of fans. Even if that meant to play a lower block. Even if he doesn't play an expansive game, with a few more of 'his' players and over the course of time, he may be able to coach a better attacking style than now. As you know, it doesn't have to be black and white in terms of attack vs defensive style and defense is the easier aspect to coach when a new manager comes in.

Indeed. People need to realise how much he's had to change, & how little budget he's had to do it. We were a soft touch, and everyone knew it, so his first objective was for him to come in and tighten up the defence and make the midfield more competitive than it had been, and early indications is that he's done that with the majority of the budget he has.

He's plugged gaps in the midfield and forward areas with with loan players, Coulibaly, Ejaria, Kent and Sadiq. It might be another window or 2 before he can really focus on that area of the team.

[Djimi Smicer34]

I'm being very "glass-half-empty" on it, Djimi, mate.

We have a current and past manager who believed in "Pressing", with slightly different interpretations of the tactic. We're now used to that, as a fan base. "Pressing" takes a lot of physical effort, and although the concepts are simple, it requires a lot of rehearsal so that everyone understands the cues of how, where and when to press. So it takes up a LOT of training time to get right. Possession football takes a lot of time to get right too, especially if you don't have the players to do it 100% of the time. So you have to really invest in those principles as a coach, because you'll be spending a hell of a lot of time practicing, refining and improving them, depending on the evolution of the game from season-to-season. That's why I don't see Gerrard changing from what he's doing now, because to become a "Pressing" coach takes a big time and energy investment from the coach, so most "Pressing" coaches tend to be both zealous about it, and also to have believed in it from the start. Gerrard hasn't started his career as a club manager with a "Pressing" style, so I'm guessing it's not what he believes is the most sustainable way to play the game. And as most managers don't change their game principles throughout their career, I'm also thinking that this is what we'll see for most of Gerrard's management career.

There's nothing wrong with what he's doing, btw - I'm not judging Gerrard on it. But from our point of view, and with a view to him being possibly the next Liverpool manager, we might see a clash of styles when he gets here. That's all I'm saying.

I see it similarly because I've never thought that he should have taken that job.

I'm choosing not to see his time at Rangers as an audition for the Liverpool job; I think he'd have to be successful at a higher level than the SPL for him to come under serious consideration here.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because it is so early in his career but I'd put money on your judgement of him being correct in the long-term rather than my own.  I want him to be successful there because of who he is and what he means to Liverpool, unfortunately I think he's on ultimately a hiding to nothing unless Rodgers walks away from the SPL and/or Celtic unexpectedly imlode. 

[PhaseOfPlay]

I see it similarly because I've never thought that he should have taken that job.

I'm choosing not to see his time at Rangers as an audition for the Liverpool job; I think he'd have to be successful at a higher level than the SPL for him to come under serious consideration here.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because it is so early in his career but I'd put money on your judgement of him being correct in the long-term rather than my own.  I want him to be successful there because of who he is and what he means to Liverpool, unfortunately I think he's on ultimately a hiding to nothing unless Rodgers walks away from the SPL and/or Celtic unexpectedly imlode.

Well Celtic's transfer policy seems to be a disaster, so there's a chance yet

[Kenny's Jacket]

Get used to it. They are crazy.

Look they even took a union jack to an away game to put on the physio's table.

https://twitter.com/ViewfromGorgie/status/1026101047339745284?s=19

Why Gerrard got himself involved with such madness is beyond me.

It is weird, however you should see their rivals, they have Irish flags but they’re Scottish, I’m not kidding 

[RJH]

Maribor now? Be an interesting gauge of Scottish football’s state, as I predict Rangers will struggle against a side we absolutely brutalised last season.

Not sure their performance against us is the best way to measure them, as Liverpool were brutalising sides all the way to the Champions League Semi-Finals.

Maribor held Sevilla to a draw at home, and drew against Spartak Home and Away.
So I agree it will be a tough one for Rangers.

If they do get past Maribor, they will at least have the advantage of being seeded in the Play-Off round and so will avoid the likes of Sevilla and Zenit. If I've understood the process, I think the next stage is drawn tomorrow, so they'll know their two possible next round opponents before the first leg against Maribor.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Re: the game itself. I know Rangers got a red card, but if the BBC is anything to go by, surely this was a red card as well?

[PhaseOfPlay]

It is weird, however you should see their rivals, they have Irish flags but they’re Scottish, I’m not kidding 

To be fair, though - Celtic were started by an Irish priest with an aim to give something to the Irish community in Glasgow, so the "Irishness" of Celtic makes total sense in that respect.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Re: the game itself. I know Rangers got a red card, but if the BBC is anything to go by, surely this was a red card as weo?

Wonder if he liked it 

[Kenny's Jacket]

To be fair, though - Celtic were started by an Irish priest with an aim to give something to the Irish community in Glasgow, so the "Irishness" of Celtic makes total sense in that respect.

I know mate I used to live up there

[PhaseOfPlay]

I know mate I used to live up there

Ye poor sod

[Kenny's Jacket]

Ye poor sod

Glasgow as a city was ace, I loved it.  The rivalry though was weird and just a bit off

[Samie]

Stevie's two greatest influence's are Ged and Rafa, safe to say he's not going to be playing Brazil 1970 footie.

[ScottishGoon]

Need to know the rules, so are we anti brittish or that on here, I can never keep up with what's right in modern society?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Need to know the rules, so are we anti brittish or that on here, I can never keep up with what's right in modern society?

Anti-flagism.

But very much pro-Bagism.

[Samie]

It's an LFC forum mate, pretty sure 99% on here don't really give a damn about the monarchy. 

[ScottishGoon]

Anti-flagism.

But very much pro-Bagism.

Im pretty sure Rangers and Celtic just fly they flags because they are pretty and provides a lovely colour coded accessory to their strips. 

[Kenny's Jacket]

Anti-flagism.

Were Banners not Flag people surely

[PhaseOfPlay]

Were Banners not Flag people surely

Ev'rybody's talking 'bout
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, is-m, is-m, is-m

All we are saying is give Pete a chance
All we are saying is give Pete a chance

[No666]

I'd guess that one reason he took the job is that he'd already turned down another offer - MK Dons, iirc - citing the fact he wasn't ready. He's the sort that would want to accept challenges, to test himself, and he wouldn't like to feel he was shying away from leading. Fwiw I think it was the wrong decision and he should have remained at Kirkby for another year. I hope it works out well for him.

[andspecks]

@bet365
A gentle reminder that eight games into Steven Gerrard's managerial career, Rangers have been behind for a combined total of 0 minutes.

[vivabobbygraham]

Need to know the rules, so are we anti brittish or that on here, I can never keep up with what's right in modern society?

Scouse, British, European is the way I roll.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Scouse, British, European is the way I roll.

Rubbish - here's how you roll, Viva:

[OOS]

Second week in a row another player sent off.

[andspecks]

Second week in a row another player sent off.

At least they won this time

[Purple Red]

Well in, Stevie.

Delighted he's got that critical first win.