Topic: Liverpool has lost it's world heritage status!

[Red Beret]

Some videos here if anybody wants to check them out.  I think Waterloo Dock is covered in them.

https://liverpoolwaters.co.uk/about/videos/

[CraigDS]

Some videos here if anybody wants to check them out.  I think Waterloo Dock is covered in them.

https://liverpoolwaters.co.uk/about/videos/

I live looking onto Waterloo Dock. It’s not covered at all.

[Red Beret]

I live looking onto Waterloo Dock. It’s not covered at all.

There's a clip in the most recent video, around 1.10 to 1.15, that suggests a portion of Waterloo Dock is to be infilled.

[CraigDS]

I’ll have to double check the planning but we got a planning doc through our door about 3 or 4 weeks ago and it didn’t look like that.

Although that is the far corner. The dock itself wraps around is is huge.

[Red Beret]

Well, as you say, you live there; and I'm only going off a video.  There's probably oodles more nuance to this than I can see, but I just thought I'd share what I found.

[kopite321]

The "Turd Rolled In Glitter" for the World Cup next year.

Who invited you ? :-)

[Pistolero]

Liverpool deserves better than the humiliation of losing of its Unesco status
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/25/liverpool-unesco-status-waterfront-government

[John C]

Liverpool deserves better than the humiliation of losing of its Unesco status
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/25/liverpool-unesco-status-waterfront-government

That's the most confusing opinion piece ever about the entire subject.
It leaves the reader wondering whether its existing buildings, future development or the proposed stadium that upsetting UNESCO.
And it's final paragraph sums up how inaccurately awful and poorly researched the whole messy article is.

That really is full of shite.

[CraigDS]

That's the most confusing opinion piece ever about the entire subject.
It leaves the reader wondering whether its existing buildings, future development or the proposed stadium that upsetting UNESCO.
And it's final paragraph sums up how inaccurately awful and poorly researched the whole messy article is.

That really is full of shite.

Tried posting something similar but the site was on a go slow and gave up.

It's like it's written by someone who hasn't been to Liverpool for quite a long time, if ever.

[Dr. Beaker]

Let battle commence.

[Nobby Reserve]

I'm sure certain local 'businessmen' and corrupt politicians will console themselves with their swollen bank balances.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/21/unesco-strips-liverpool-waterfront-world-heritage-status

It has happened.

[AndyMuller]

Fucking Everton that.

[Zeb]

Hopefully have very little impact on anything other than a bit of pride to having UNESCO recognise what's obvious to everyone.

[Dr. Beaker]

I suppose things may have been different if their stadium project had reflected Liverpool's history (and Everton's present) and been designed to be reminiscent of an old wooden schooner/ghost ship.

[Alan_X]

Hopefully have very little impact on anything other than a bit of pride to having UNESCO recognise what's obvious to everyone.

It might have the impact of "well it's gone now so let's over-develop massively and put up any old shite..."

[Scouser-Tommy]

I hope they appeal the decision given that they haven't visited the city since 2012.

Regardless of whether some people want the other lot to go ahead with the new stadium, the current state of the land up that end of the docks is just a waste.

[RedForeverTT]

Fucking political. Chinese instigating it as UN as a tit for tat for British supporting HK pro democracy.

China has 48 UNESCO heritage sites the most in the world and still applying for more. If you have been to China you’d realised all so called heritage were replicas after it has all been smashed during Cultural Revolution in 70s.

[Zeb]

It might have the impact of "well it's gone now so let's over-develop massively and put up any old shite..."

True, though you'd think all the work gone into creating the waterfront as a focal point for a tourist/visitor industry would have greater value than that?

[Alan_X]

Fucking political. Chinese instigating it as UN as a tit for tat for British supporting HK pro democracy.

China has 48 UNESCO heritage sites the most in the world and still applying for more. If you have been to China you’d realised all so called heritage were replicas after it has all been smashed during Cultural Revolution in 70s.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. While I'm not disputing the state of the Chinese sites do you really think fucking up Liverpool's World Heritage Status is going to upset Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson's government?

[Alan_X]

True, though you'd think all the work gone into creating the waterfront as a focal point for a tourist/visitor industry would have greater value than that?

Most developers couldn't give a shit. They'll be concerned about rental income and asset value. If that costs a bit of Section 106 money to provide a bit of public amenity they'll pay up but tourist income means nothing to them.

[Alan_X]

Merged the topics.

[CHOPPER]

A capital of culture, or a culture of capital?


PW had it bang on 13 years ago.

[Red Beret]

Shame. Did they even bother to visit and tour the area since their initial visit?

Feels like they've been itching to do this for years. Also, imagine losing our status because of a stadium that might not be built? Everton might actually just be doing some other developer a favour by doing the remedial work on the dock, which they can then use to build something else.

Edit: I dont think the political climate in the city helped matters either.

[gazzalfc]

The danger is that it removes all the safeguards the council had to tear into the city. Doesn't matter what developers want to build in the city now

Peel will be rubbing their hands together now ready to rinse the city with another 5 skyscrapers to make up for the money they had to spend changing their last designs to fit in the UNESCO objections.

[Pistolero]

Fatarses true legacy to the city of Liverpool....prepare yourselves for St Helens-on-sea....

[villagelife]

Fucking political. Chinese instigating it as UN as a tit for tat for British supporting HK pro democracy.

China has 48 UNESCO heritage sites the most in the world and still applying for more. If you have been to China you’d realised all so called heritage were replicas after it has all been smashed during Cultural Revolution in 70s.

I didnt think my first post would be this. I wouldn't be surprised by this at all, and some of the recent property failures have resulted in foreign investors losing millions, a lot from China. Its like they want to rewite history, but they have to delete some first.

The Liverpool waterfront and its history in the world is absolutely unique.

[Lad]

A capital of culture, or a culture of capital?


PW had it bang on 13 years ago.

Pete Wylie !!

[jacobs chains]

Pete Wylie !!

Story of the Blues. Suddenly it all makes sense.

[Red-Soldier]

Unesco strips Liverpool of its world heritage status

UN body says years of development have caused ‘irreversible loss’ to historic value of Victorian docks

Liverpool has been stripped of its coveted world heritage status after Unesco blamed years of development for an “irreversible loss” to the historic value of its Victorian docks.

The UN’s heritage body concluded at a meeting in China on Wednesday that the “outstanding universal value” of Liverpool’s waterfront had been destroyed by new buildings, including Everton football club’s new £500m stadium.

The decision is a humiliating blow for the city and gives Liverpool the ignominious distinction of being only the third place to lose the status in nearly 50 years. The other delisted sites were Oman’s Arabian Oryx Sanctuary in 2007 and the Dresden Elbe valley in Germany in 2009.

Liverpool has enjoyed world heritage status since 2004 – placing it alongside the Taj Mahal and Great Wall of China – as recognition for its role as a major trading power during the British empire and the architectural beauty of its waterfront.

The label gives historic sites access to UN conservation funding and protection under the Geneva conventions in the event of war, as well as featuring in tourist guidebooks across the world.

The threat of being delisted has hung over Liverpool since 2012 as Unesco warned that development had significantly changed the city’s skyline and was destroying the heritage value of its waterfront.

The decision was announced by Tian Xuejun, the chair of the Unesco world heritage committee, at a virtual conference hosted in China on Wednesday.

The UN agency said development such as Liverpool Waters, a £5.5bn project by Peel Group to transform previously disused land, had led to a “serious deterioration and irreversible loss” to the area’s outstanding universal value along with “significant loss to its authenticity and integrity”.

It said that as a result of these projects the waterfront had “deteriorated to the extent that it has lost characteristics” that led to its inclusion on the world heritage list in 2004.

The proposal to build Everton’s new riverside football stadium at Bramley-Moore dock would “add to the ascertained threat of further deterioration and loss” of its historic value.

The decision was met with dismay by Liverpool city leaders. Joanne Anderson, the city mayor, said she was “hugely disappointed and concerned” and that the council would consider lodging an appeal.

She said it had been a decade since Unesco last visited the city “to see it with their own eyes” and it was “incomprehensible” that Unesco would rather see Bramley-Moore dock as a “derelict wasteland” than as a gleaming new football stadium that would attract hundreds of thousands of visitors.

She added: “Our world heritage site has never been in better condition having benefited from hundreds of millions of pounds of investment across dozens of listed buildings and the public realm.”

Steve Rotheram, the metro mayor of the Liverpool city region, said it was a “retrograde step that does not reflect the reality of what is happening on the ground” and was “a decision taken on the other side of the world by people who do not appear to understand the renaissance that has taken place in recent years”.

He said places such as Liverpool should not be left with a choice between maintaining heritage status or regeneration and bringing in jobs.

A short walk from the Baltic Triangle, where artists’ studios sit alongside independent bars and cafes, Jayne Casey said the announcement felt like a depressing landmark in the city’s otherwise proud cultural history.

“We’ve been aware for a long time that developers have got a lot of sway in the city. The champagne will be flowing tonight for them because every little bit of land will now be built on,” said Casey, who was co-creative director of Liverpool’s capital of culture in 2008 and is regarded as one of the city’s most influential cultural figures.

Casey said those pushing Liverpool to bid for world heritage status had been “laughed out of every building” in the city 20 years ago due to the dereliction and other social issues that had blighted the area for decades.

The mantle bestowed international prestige on Liverpool, she said, but it had also accelerated a development boom that suffocated artistic life in the city. “Liverpool’s shifted from being a cultural city to one that’s just life everywhere else,” she said.

Heritage groups described the move as a moment of shame for the UK and accused the government of not doing enough to protect its historic sites or intervene on Liverpool’s behalf when Unesco threatened to delist it.

Henrietta Billings, the director of Save Britain’s Heritage, said being stripped of world heritage status was a “national embarrassment” and that Liverpool had been failed by the government’s “devolve and forget” approach to protecting cultural assets.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/21/unesco-strips-liverpool-waterfront-world-heritage-status

[Nobby Reserve]

I'm sure certain corrupt local politicians and 'businessmen' will be crying into their inflated bank accounts.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Booo!

[Machae]

Imagine the fume from a lot of the public if the reasons were reversed and they cited the loss of heritage status due to Liverpools stadium design

[RedForeverTT]

Imagine the fume from a lot of the public if the reasons were reversed and they cited the loss of heritage status due to Liverpools stadium design

Still that doesn’t make sense that regeneration loses you the heritage status. Are we an heritage city because of those abandoned warehouses at the docks?

A stadium is a big structure for sure but we are not demolishing those historical buildings on the river banks to do a complete overhaul.

[FlashingBlade]

The danger is that it removes all the safeguards the council had to tear into the city. Doesn't matter what developers want to build in the city now

Peel will be rubbing their hands together now ready to rinse the city with another 5 skyscrapers to make up for the money they had to spend changing their last designs to fit in the UNESCO objections.

This is the real outcome today.

An example of short sightedness in thus City is remember the out cry to Alsops cloud proposal?

...What did Liver get instead..the monolithic blocks on Mann Island .

[Red Beret]

This is the real outcome today.

An example of short sightedness in thus City is remember the out cry to Alsops cloud proposal?

...What did Liver get instead..the monolithic blocks on Mann Island .

I remember going to the Walker Art Gallery to see the four proposals.  Going in pretty much blind, with no preconceptions, Alsop's was the first I saw and I instantly loathed it.  When we left I said to my then gf, "I liked them all except that first one.  Bet you anything that's the one they go for."

In all truth, they should never have demolished the art-deco car showroom that was there.  But it was a prime piece of land that they were desperate to develop, and honestly I prefer the blocks to that fucking cloud.

But if those didn't cost us WH status, then Liverpool Waters or BMD shouldn't either.

[Black Bull Nova]

As soon as it was confirmed Everton were Ok to build there, the writing was on the wall

#touchedbyeverton

[Max_powers]

Fucking political. Chinese instigating it as UN as a tit for tat for British supporting HK pro democracy.

China has 48 UNESCO heritage sites the most in the world and still applying for more. If you have been to China you’d realised all so called heritage were replicas after it has all been smashed during Cultural Revolution in 70s.

I don't know about any of that.

But there are loads of UNESCO heritage sites that were all rebuilt in the modern age. Plenty of central European towns were destroyed in WW2 and rebuilt to look like their past selves. I know the old bridge in Mostar finished the reconstruction in 2004 after it was destroyed in the war. I think what they care more about it is historical importance and preservation of character.

I don't think that really makes these sites less impressive.

[villagelife]

Did you see they way they did it?   no compassion, joy actually.  China have bought the Unesco like they bought the WHO.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57879475

I have no doubt that China have attempted to "influence" RAWK by the way.

Our teams are red, the river is blue,

your dictator,

looks like winnie the pooh.

[Son of Spion]

It might have the impact of "well it's gone now so let's over-develop massively and put up any old shite..."

Just like much of the rest of the city then.