Author Topic: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager  (Read 13110 times)

Offline KERRYKOP

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2016, 03:03:47 pm »
Last English manager to win anything, anywhere in the world?

Offline 4pool

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2016, 03:22:42 pm »
Last English manager to win anything, anywhere in the world?

Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2016, 03:51:15 pm »

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2016, 06:54:37 pm »

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2016, 07:57:36 pm »
Ah maybe I missed your point a little. The main thing I was disagreeing with was the idea that it's fashionable to hire foreign managers, which I thought implied that hiring less foreign managers would equal more high quality English managers emerging, whereas in my opinion fewer foreign managers would mean a poorer league and poorer coaching for England's best players. I think foreign managers are more frequently hired because they're generally much, much better (Bobby brown shoes notwithstanding). Clubs want to hire British managers but whenever they go that route it tends to end in either no progress whatsoever or utter failure.

The point about manager wages I made was pretty speculative, it makes sense but I can't find any numbers to back it up.

You didn't really address the part you disagreed with as directly in your first post as you did in your second. I do think that hiring less foreign managers would equal more high class British ( substituting British for English as that was the original poster's parameters) managers emerging. Thats just because they would  gain more experience, not because they are inherently on a par with their continental contemporaries.

A whole generation of British managers have lost the opportunity to progress, in the way that their predecessors did, because of the influx of foreign talent. Is that partly their own fault? Most certainly. However it would be foolish, imo, not to recognise that in different circumstances some of those managers would most likely have went on to better things. None of that contradicts the points you make in your respective posts and I acknowledge that there are no current British managers that you could put your hand on heart and "say he just needed a chance at a bigger club".

Historically football has had some extremely high-class British managers. Our own club has had two of the most successful ones in footballing history. Our greatest rivals likewise. In fact Ferguson is probably the best example of the difference between pre and post premiership. There is no way he would get six years nowadays at a top club to find his feet, build a team and develop his own skills. In fact he probably wouldn't get the job in the first place.
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2016, 09:35:24 pm »
Only England could go for Hodgson and Allardyce, who's next Moyes?

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2016, 10:26:51 pm »
The more I see of the FA the less respect I have for them.   The scene  in Mike Bassett of the FA boardroom of a load of old doderers is exactly how I imagine the current boardroom looks like with a load of old boys reminiscing about the good old days and not wanting any young upstarts coming in and upsetting the applecart thank you very much.   If real life imitated the fantasy corridors of the FA whereby a cv chock full of failure and mediocrity could bag you the top job in industry then this country would be in a bigger mess than the England team and that's saying something.  I'm self employed.   When I look at a cv I want to see success imprinted on the page and a proven track record or someone who has the endorsement from their current/previous employer to say how much they are going to improve my business.   Hodgson appointed after being an abject failure,  contract paid up by Liverpool and then given an obscene salary to be just as shit at the top job in the country.   It boils my piss to think how many millions that charlatan has been paid in the last 4 years including his Liverpool package and the same thing is about to happen again.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2016, 11:00:06 pm »
The more I see of the FA the less respect I have for them.   The scene  in Mike Bassett of the FA boardroom of a load of old doderers is exactly how I imagine the current boardroom looks like with a load of old boys reminiscing about the good old days and not wanting any young upstarts coming in and upsetting the applecart thank you very much.   If real life imitated the fantasy corridors of the FA whereby a cv chock full of failure and mediocrity could bag you the top job in industry then this country would be in a bigger mess than the England team and that's saying something.  I'm self employed.   When I look at a cv I want to see success imprinted on the page and a proven track record or someone who has the endorsement from their current/previous employer to say how much they are going to improve my business.   Hodgson appointed after being an abject failure,  contract paid up by Liverpool and then given an obscene salary to be just as shit at the top job in the country.   It boils my piss to think how many millions that charlatan has been paid in the last 4 years including his Liverpool package and the same thing is about to happen again.

Same here, it's a disgrace that this clown was paid obscene money for failure twice. 

Offline Yiannis

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2016, 10:57:13 am »
Brilliant as always (remember his Hodgson related post last year as well), E2K.
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2016, 12:35:02 pm »
Speaking of Glenn: he recently made the point that “the British press, like it or not, are probably the most intensely passionate about the game in the world and that has a spill over effect. The consequence of which is people probably play not to make a mistake, as opposed to play to win.”. Perhaps now we’re getting somewhere. After all, has one of the media’s highest profile number, Henry Winter, not previously admitted the following: “The players run out there with the white shirt weighing heavily on them. They worry about the critical headlines if they slip up, the sort of media storm that blew around Rob Green and his family after his mistake against the United States at the 2010 World Cup. One player confided to me that all he could think about in the tunnel before kick-off was what rating he might get in the next day’s papers…He hadn’t even kicked a ball and he was already concerned about the post-match fall-out.”.

Well it was Winter’s profession, if not Winter himself, who tormented Green after that game against the United States, Paul Robinson and Scott Carson against Croatia, David Beckham against Argentina, Gareth Southgate, Stuart Pearce and Chris Waddle against Germany and, back when it was fashionable to criticise the manager, put the likes of Robson, Taylor, Eriksson and McLaren through as much hell as it’s possible to put a football manager. It’s utterly fucking lamentable to see one of them recognise that his own profession is a massive part of the problem, type it out, look at it, maybe proof-read it a couple of times and then go on his merry way without a care in the world, later publishing an article under the headline “England must stop cocooning spoilt players to succeed”.

Brilliant as ever, E2K.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2016, 02:11:16 pm »
Just realised that Sammy Lee has joined England as a coach.

Must have missed the appointment so that accounts for him not joining Koeman at the Bitters. Pity that, would have been an epic fewm. Hope he hasn't avoided the fire and gone straight to the frying pan.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2016, 06:37:44 pm »
You didn't really address the part you disagreed with as directly in your first post as you did in your second. I do think that hiring less foreign managers would equal more high class British ( substituting British for English as that was the original poster's parameters) managers emerging. Thats just because they would  gain more experience, not because they are inherently on a par with their continental contemporaries.

A whole generation of British managers have lost the opportunity to progress, in the way that their predecessors did, because of the influx of foreign talent. Is that partly their own fault? Most certainly. However it would be foolish, imo, not to recognise that in different circumstances some of those managers would most likely have went on to better things. None of that contradicts the points you make in your respective posts and I acknowledge that there are no current British managers that you could put your hand on heart and "say he just needed a chance at a bigger club".

Historically football has had some extremely high-class British managers. Our own club has had two of the most successful ones in footballing history. Our greatest rivals likewise. In fact Ferguson is probably the best example of the difference between pre and post premiership. There is no way he would get six years nowadays at a top club to find his feet, build a team and develop his own skills. In fact he probably wouldn't get the job in the first place.

I meant to reply sooner but I got lazy and it eventually slipped my mind. Less foreign managers in the league would mean more British managers in the top jobs, I agree on that, however it's hard to imagine those managers not being the likes of Allardyce, Pulis, Pardew, etc. All I can see happening in that situation is a rapid decline in the quality of the Premier League and more lazy ex-footballers becoming managers even though they have neither the passion nor the talent for the job. Yes British managers would be gaining more experience, but experience counts for little if you don't learn from it which I'd say is true of most British managers that seem to keep landing Premier League jobs season after season despite never really going anywhere.

The one benefit would be that those mid to bottom table jobs currently occupied by Pardew et al. could end up in the hands of younger, hungrier British managers that actually do want to climb the ladder, but I think the general decline in quality of the league would have a big impact on how much they could develop, and there's a risk that those jobs would just end up with the likes of Sherwood and Hodgson anyway.

British managers should be far and away the most attractive option in this league, they know the language, they know the league, they tend to come under less pressure and scrutiny than foreign managers and they've grown up wanting to win the Premier League, not La Liga or the Bundesliga. The reason why they're rarely chosen for the top jobs is because most of them are pretty shit, and the rare few who do get the big jobs (Rodgers, Moyes, Hodgson, Neville?) tend to fuck it up and put teams off from trying the same thing again.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2016, 09:18:08 pm »
Just got to reading this, as I went through your post history following your post in the most recent round table, and what an excellent read. Great perspective on the last few decades of the English national team, as well as England's recent departure from the European Championships, and what we should expect in the coming years. I look forward to reading more of your posts in the future.
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2016, 09:19:44 pm »
Really hopes he avoids picking Liverpool players for the upcoming International date, fat, frog-faced twat. 
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2017, 04:52:06 pm »
He's leaving crystal palace!
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2017, 05:11:51 pm »
Next Arsenal manager?  :D

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2017, 05:12:50 pm »
Got to have something lined up surely....?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline CallumLFC

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2017, 05:14:07 pm »
Got to have something lined up surely....?

Wenger has picked him to take over the throne.

Yes that's right Allardyce is 'The Chosen One'.

Offline Adam_LFC

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2017, 05:17:56 pm »
What realistic step up could he be going for? Southampton? Doubt they would want him.

Unless it's something like going to manage in China.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2017, 05:20:12 pm »
He probably wanted unrealistic amounts of money to spend this summer so has decided to walk.

I wonder where this leaves the potential Sakho deal?

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2017, 05:20:18 pm »
Got to have something lined up surely....?



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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2017, 05:22:03 pm »
Fuck, hope this doesn't stop them taking that *************** off our hands.

Struggling to know where the line is again? He may not be in everyone's good graces but remember who you support, where you're posting and what that means, higher standards! Resorting to this sort of name calling is uncouth and unnecessary!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 10:05:44 pm by Titi Camara »

Offline Yevgeny

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2017, 05:48:53 pm »
That's unexpected. Must be a mega offer from China or something similar, the greedy bastard that he is.

Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2017, 05:50:26 pm »
Maybe something more of his underhand dealings uncovered
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2017, 05:53:33 pm »
Barcelona surely?

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2017, 06:20:37 pm »
Well, that's a bit odd seeing as he did a decent enough job there. Bareclona jokes aside, surely there's more to this then just what is being reported as of now.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2017, 06:26:09 pm »
Palace fans will be shitting themselves with Moyes on the hunt for a job.

What corruption has Allardyce got himself caught up in now?

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2017, 06:32:47 pm »
Allardyce to Watford and Moyes to Palace? There is never only one Sith Lord....
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2017, 06:33:45 pm »
Taking over from the Red Chrimbo Tree fella at Everton?
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Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2017, 06:38:55 pm »
Telegraph saying that he wants to retire and hence quitting.
.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2017, 06:48:33 pm »
Telegraph saying that he wants to retire and hence quitting.

Enjoy a few months before he is jailed for looming corruption charges?
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2017, 06:49:42 pm »
Telegraph saying that he wants to retire and hence quitting.

Not a fan of the man or his style of football - but fair play to him, he's done a few brilliant jobs with smaller clubs and keeping them up.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2017, 07:03:19 pm »
I heard Inter Milan are looking for a manager.
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2017, 07:05:08 pm »
Will come out of this supposed retirement mid season once Utd sack Mourinho mid term next year  ;D

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2017, 07:10:44 pm »
Off for a pint of wine.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2017, 07:22:18 pm »
He probably wants to focus on his tax returns more.

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2017, 07:58:07 pm »
Him and Moyesy in two days. RIP YNWA LMA

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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2017, 08:02:45 pm »
Whose turn is it to jump off the managerial merry go-round?

John Gregory's still going round on it.
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2017, 08:08:45 pm »
Has to have a job offer?
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Re: Wilful Regression: Sam Allardyce is the new England Manager
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2017, 09:46:57 pm »
Will come out of this supposed retirement mid season once Utd sack Mourinho mid term next year  ;D
Its a good thing for him. He can only win games in March and April. Having a team through pre-season and then from game one, is too much like accountability.