Topic: Praise for LFC's transfer policy

[Fordy]

Agree with all of this - no one really knows what the situation will be, so it is a wait and see situation for 99% of clubs. Reading today even Barca is having issues.

However should be noted that Chelsea and City are still actively pursuing and buying players, almost if the situation doesn't apply to them (sarcasm)...  What a glaring example of how financially doped they are!

"Global crisis? Lost revenue? Nah we'll overspend as normal"

Sorry who have City brought again?

Please look at the league table.. study it!! We're 20 plus points ahead of teams and of course other teams need to improve.

Chelsea got the Morata money this summer that's what they spent.

With this virus it would be foolish to spend a load of money when no one knows what's happening with it.

[Willy Poolman]

It seems like a really sensible approach to me. There are too many unknowns to be taking big risks right now, so conserving funds for a least a little longer, and concentrating on youth development, just makes sense. One unknown factor, which I haven't seen discussed yet, is how the experience of living through these times might affect major transfer targets. Bringing someone in who will need to move to the northwest, when perhaps their family and friends are hundreds of miles away, might actually affect their performance, at least in the short term. Small differences can have a major impact on how effectively they contribute to future success. Being part of club already means that the younger lads won't have to face this change to their environment.

[Vote For Pedro]

At the end of the day, this is an opportunity for clubs to genuinely promote youth, something we are in an excellent position to do under Klopp. Chelsea are an exception which has had a direct impact on us in the shape of Werner, and I think that has caused sections of our fanbase to get a little twitchy. I would imagine even City will cool their jets whilst they're under the microscope.

[Dave D]

We have no money to spend on players even if Jürgen wanted to, he was told the same last year. I have no problem giving youth a chance, I think on top of the players already here if we could bring back Wilson and Brewster without trying to flog them off, we'll be ok. There are also plenty of moneyball signings out there this summer that we could get without a transfer fee.

If the suits really want to look at saving money. Instead of laying people off or trying loan and sell off our youth team, they can look at getting the agent fees under control first. £75m over two seasons has had a major impact on transfers and our "world class" transfer policy.

[El Lobo]

Yeah we've got super unlucky...
Obviously no one is complaining given where we are but something has come out of nowhere to stop us adding quality when a couple of our direct rivals won't be similarly affected which is frustrating ... but out of our control.

We'll still be in a good position but they clearly planned to put their foot on everyone's throat this window - hopefully the covid/financial situation improves and they can still do something later in the summer

Yeahhhh.....

[Bucko - Dubai]

Despite knowing how much Klopp can improve players more than any other coach, I still have reservations due to past experiences with the likelihood of youth / squad players making it. And by making it I mean first team / rotation

My opinion on the future of the outskirts of the squad (disclaimer I'm notoriously pessimistic, and basing on previous encouraging youth players / the level required if we are still challenging for top honours)

Harvey Elliot - Potential star, has shown already
Neco Williams - First team squad. Will be a good squad player as Trents backup. Unlucky to be behind Trent as could be first teamer
Curtis Jones - Back-up / rotation. Unlikely to make it as a first teamer (starting 11 that is)
Ki-Jana Hoever - Potential back-up / 3rd choice CB. Could develop into first teamer
Rhiad Brewster - Back-up. Sold to lower prem team for circa 20m - 25m
Harry Wilson - Back-up. Sold to lower prem team for circa 20m - 25m
Ben Woodburn - Not to required standard. Sold to Championship team for circa 5m
Lauroci - Back-up. Sold to lower prem / upper championship for 5m-10m. (similar to Brad Smith)
Marko Grujic - Tough one. Not quite good enough. Sold to european team for approx 25m
Leighton Clark - Unlikely to make it. Sold to championship team for 3m-5m.
Sepp Van Den Berg - Not good enough from what ive seen. Sold to championship for approx 5m

[sirjames]

Despite knowing how much Klopp can improve players more than any other coach, I still have reservations due to past experiences with the likelihood of youth / squad players making it. And by making it I mean first team / rotation

My opinion on the future of the outskirts of the squad (disclaimer I'm notoriously pessimistic, and basing on previous encouraging youth players / the level required if we are still challenging for top honours)

Harvey Elliot - Potential star, has shown already
Neco Williams - First team squad. Will be a good squad player as Trents backup. Unlucky to be behind Trent as could be first teamer
Curtis Jones - Back-up / rotation. Unlikely to make it as a first teamer (starting 11 that is)
Ki-Jana Hoever - Potential back-up / 3rd choice CB. Could develop into first teamer
Rhiad Brewster - Back-up. Sold to lower prem team for circa 20m - 25m
Harry Wilson - Back-up. Sold to lower prem team for circa 20m - 25m
Ben Woodburn - Not to required standard. Sold to Championship team for circa 5m
Lauroci - Back-up. Sold to lower prem / upper championship for 5m-10m. (similar to Brad Smith)
Marko Grujic - Tough one. Not quite good enough. Sold to european team for approx 25m
Leighton Clark - Unlikely to make it. Sold to championship team for 3m-5m.
Sepp Van Den Berg - Not good enough from what ive seen. Sold to championship for approx 5m

I am guessing you have not seen almost all of these players play more than 5 times.

[royhendo]

I do love Rhiad Brewster. Almost as much as I love Cairo Jones.

[latortuga]

Despite knowing how much Klopp can improve players more than any other coach, I still have reservations due to past experiences with the likelihood of youth / squad players making it. And by making it I mean first team / rotation

My opinion on the future of the outskirts of the squad (disclaimer I'm notoriously pessimistic, and basing on previous encouraging youth players / the level required if we are still challenging for top honours)

Harvey Elliot - Potential star, has shown already
Neco Williams - First team squad. Will be a good squad player as Trents backup. Unlucky to be behind Trent as could be first teamer
Curtis Jones - Back-up / rotation. Unlikely to make it as a first teamer (starting 11 that is)
Ki-Jana Hoever - Potential back-up / 3rd choice CB. Could develop into first teamer
Rhiad Brewster - Back-up. Sold to lower prem team for circa 20m - 25m
Harry Wilson - Back-up. Sold to lower prem team for circa 20m - 25m
Ben Woodburn - Not to required standard. Sold to Championship team for circa 5m
Lauroci - Back-up. Sold to lower prem / upper championship for 5m-10m. (similar to Brad Smith)
Marko Grujic - Tough one. Not quite good enough. Sold to european team for approx 25m
Leighton Clark - Unlikely to make it. Sold to championship team for 3m-5m.
Sepp Van Den Berg - Not good enough from what ive seen. Sold to championship for approx 5m

Tend to agree with most of that, though I probably have greater hopes for Curtis Jones than you and not sure I've seen anything in his game that tells me he can't make it.  What are the reasons that you're marking him down out of interest?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I am guessing you have not seen almost all of these players play more than 5 times.

What gave it away ?

[royhendo]

It is fun this though. I'll give it a go.

Harvey Elliot - needs some ACME pills but if he fills out... ooft!
Neco Williams - squad utility stalwart maturing into institution/legend
Curtis Jones - squad utility stalwart maturing into institution/legend
Ki-Jana Hoever - squad utility stalwart maturing into institution/legend
Rhiad Brewster - yeah - eventually we'll sell him
Harry Wilson - yup - same
Ben Woodburn - same
Lauroci - same
Marko Grujic - same
Leighton Clark - same
Sepp Van Den Berg - same

If Elliot was an athlete/unit...

[Bucko - Dubai]

Tend to agree with most of that, though I probably have greater hopes for Curtis Jones than you and not sure I've seen anything in his game that tells me he can't make it.  What are the reasons that you're marking him down out of interest?

Maybe I'm being harsh, but as I said this is assuming we are still at the pinnacle and are after the best.

I think he is the hardest one to judge. Im looking at age too and would have expected he got more appearances if Klopp trusted him much. But he could definitely kick on.

Think im too scarred from the likes of Yesil, Pacheco, Flanagan, Rossiter, Ejaria et al being touted as future stars and none making it at an elite level

[Bucko - Dubai]

I am guessing you have not seen almost all of these players play more than 5 times.

Im willing to hear other opinions, but there have been so many false dawns with promising youth players.

Not just from us but all clubs do it, and rarely do they make it into the first team.

How many have we developed in the past 20 years that have been consistent first teamers? Also considering we are at a different level now to then. I'd say Trent, Suso and Sterling are the only ones that have made it to the level we are after now.

[rebel23]

I think Curtis is the most promising.. I want him to get games.

[El Lobo]

Who’s Leighton Clark?

[plura]

For me it is Neco, Harvey and Ki-Jana that I feel most confident about 'making it here'. But Curtis, Rian, Sepp all have decent chances IMO also. Leighton and Yasser, I can't speak of much. And the rest I think will get sold eventually. But who knows?
I know that at least the 3-6 others are top talents that have a very good chance of making it at Liverpool to some degree. And that's really good when you think Liverpool is the Premier League and Champions League champions.

[Fordy]

Despite knowing how much Klopp can improve players more than any other coach, I still have reservations due to past experiences with the likelihood of youth / squad players making it. And by making it I mean first team / rotation

My opinion on the future of the outskirts of the squad (disclaimer I'm notoriously pessimistic, and basing on previous encouraging youth players / the level required if we are still challenging for top honours)

Harvey Elliot - Potential star, has shown already
Neco Williams - First team squad. Will be a good squad player as Trents backup. Unlucky to be behind Trent as could be first teamer
Curtis Jones - Back-up / rotation. Unlikely to make it as a first teamer (starting 11 that is)
Ki-Jana Hoever - Potential back-up / 3rd choice CB. Could develop into first teamer
Rhiad Brewster - Back-up. Sold to lower prem team for circa 20m - 25m
Harry Wilson - Back-up. Sold to lower prem team for circa 20m - 25m
Ben Woodburn - Not to required standard. Sold to Championship team for circa 5m
Lauroci - Back-up. Sold to lower prem / upper championship for 5m-10m. (similar to Brad Smith)
Marko Grujic - Tough one. Not quite good enough. Sold to european team for approx 25m
Leighton Clark - Unlikely to make it. Sold to championship team for 3m-5m.
Sepp Van Den Berg - Not good enough from what ive seen. Sold to championship for approx 5m

Worst post of the year right here...Shameful.

[latortuga]

Maybe I'm being harsh, but as I said this is assuming we are still at the pinnacle and are after the best.

I think he is the hardest one to judge. Im looking at age too and would have expected he got more appearances if Klopp trusted him much. But he could definitely kick on.

Think im too scarred from the likes of Yesil, Pacheco, Flanagan, Rossiter, Ejaria et al being touted as future stars and none making it at an elite level

Ok fair enough.

Agree that there is a positive bias with all our youngsters up until the point that they fall on their face or get sold, so definitely better to play it on the conservative side for sure.  Don't think I really rated any of the players you named like I do Curtis, maybe Rossiter but that was in large part down to the rave reviews he was getting from ex-Liverpool legends.  Tells you something about the randomness of judging talent at times.

[lionel_messias]

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/amp/news/it-will-not-be-a-busy-summer-liverpool-boss-klopp-on/ud4zzohgiy011qnnyndisxp4v?__twitter_impression=true

The manager confirming that we’ll ‘be creative’.

Prudent management from top to bottom these days.

We'll be prudent. It is ALL good, seeing as we're probably the best run big club in Europe right now and Premier League Champions. Top division title winners. Best team in England, Europe and the World, based on competitions won via the medium of football.

I reckon, as I said earlier, that if we could sell some of our assets like Grujic, there might be some value for us the market late August or September. I still think we'll sign one or two. No blockbusters though.

[Bucko - Dubai]

Worst post of the year right here...Shameful.

Good debate.

Feel free to give your own views on those players.

[Dave D]

What some people are forgetting is that a lot of the youngsters haven't been under full time coaching by Jürgen and the team. Give them a few months full time under that and being with the first team squad, and their overall game will improve guaranteed. I just hope the business side of the club understands that.

[IanZG]

I do love Rhiad Brewster. Almost as much as I love Cairo Jones.

Personally, I think Hanoi Elliott is a bigger talent, but to each their own.

[ThePoolMan]

I have a suspicion Grujic is going to surprise many people with how good he  will be next season. I think that if Elliot continues his progress at the same rate, he will make it into the first team at some point - he has the skill and the confidence and his body will catch up. Jones also has the ability to make it if he keeps up his progress. Williams has already shown that he belongs in the first team squad as back up to Arnold. It may be less clear for the others.

[killer-heels]

I have a suspicion Grujic is going to surprise many people with how good he  will be next season. I think that if Elliot continues his progress at the same rate, he will make it into the first team at some point - he has the skill and the confidence and his body will catch up. Jones also has the ability to make it if he keeps up his progress. Williams has already shown that he belongs in the first team squad as back up to Arnold. It may be less clear for the others.

Grujic is fighting to play in an already crowded midfield area. We have more options than any side including City when it comes to the midfield. Fabinho, Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Wijnaldum, Milner, Keita and even Minamino are fighting for those positions and that's without considering the likes of Jones.

He is one of the players that may be able to generate some cash so if we could sell then that may be the best outcome.

[tubby]

It is fun this though. I'll give it a go.

Harvey Elliot - needs some ACME pills but if he fills out... ooft!
Neco Williams - squad utility stalwart maturing into institution/legend
Curtis Jones - squad utility stalwart maturing into institution/legend
Ki-Jana Hoever - squad utility stalwart maturing into institution/legend
Rhiad Brewster - yeah - eventually we'll sell him
Harry Wilson - yup - same
Ben Woodburn - same
Lauroci - same
Marko Grujic - same
Leighton Clark - same
Sepp Van Den Berg - same

If Elliot was an athlete/unit...

Agree with this, and I think Elliott's best chance of really making it here is as a number 10 in a change of formation.  Or maybe even in a similar role to the one Silva plays for City, as one of two midfielders ahead of someone holding.  Doesn't seem to have the pace or goal-getting ability to play out wide, but it's early days and he's showing so much promise and footballing nous at such a young age.

[Jookie]

Guessing how younger players will turn out is very difficult since there are so many factors involved.

If a player is at talent level of a Trent, Sterling, Owen, Fowler then it's easy to predict that they will have a very good chance to make it long term. In our current group of young players I think Elliot is the only plater who potentially gets into this type of bracket.

With all the other young players we have, from Grujic/Wilson through to van den Berg/Cain, it's much harder to predict how they turn out. 2 or 3 could easily end up playing +100 games for the club (which I'd view as the very top end of the likely success scale) or they might not make 100 starts between them (nearer bottom end of scale).

You've only got to look at the past to see how difficult these things are to predict. Suso, Nemeth, Insua, Flanagan, Kelly, Stephen Wright, Pacheco, Ibe, Kent, Solanke, Rossiter, Welsh, Coady are just a handful of names over the last 20 years that at some point people thought would have a good chance to make it in the Liverpool 1st team. None of them really did for a sustained period. Though they have gone on to have varying degrees of success in their respective careers.

I think the likes of Hoever, Jones, Brewster, van den Berg, Kelleher, Grujic, Wilson, Woodburn Larouci et al are in that same bracket where it's hard to see their ceiling. Maybe less so for Grujic and Wilson given their current experiences but will they end up playing for Liverpool regularly ? Or is their ceiling being a very good Premier League player at a mid-table club? Or is it a career in the lower leagues? Really hard to guess for anyone, never mind supporters who don't see them regularly or in training with the 1st team squad.

[Bucko - Dubai]

Taking this list from Wiki of players that have come through the academy and made some appearances for Liverpool, and those that have gone on elsewhere, shows how tough it is to be a regular.

[Barefoot Doctor]

With Matip out for the remainder of the season, I hope Klopp gives Hoever a real chance in the remaining games. If Lovren's heading out the door, might make it clearer to Klopp whether we need to go into the market or can rely on Hoever.

[Fordy]

Matip out for the rest of the season. I can really see us going for Ben White then loaning him to Leeds next season in the PL.

That transfer makes sense. Matip is injury prone and Lovern has a year left on his contract.

Hoever might have a chance of some minutes now Matip is out for the season.

[Fordy]

Taking this list from Wiki of players that have come through the academy and made some appearances for Liverpool, and those that have gone on elsewhere, shows how tough it is to be a regular.

No one is talking about them being a regular though.

It's a squad game. We won the PL, Super Cup and World Club Cup but failed sorted in the FA Cup and League Cup. No one is talking about these players replacing Salah or anything but to make up the squad because they are good enough too then kick on from there.

Get it into your head we are not signing Messi or anything.

[Oskar]

Not sure Wilson and Grujic belong in the same bracket of young players as the ones that Klopp talked about yesterday.

They’re older, played a lot more first-team football across several seasons now, are both senior internationals. The picture is much clearer where they’re concerned, both are talented players who are unlikely to play enough first-team football at Liverpool to continue their development so if they can’t be sold this summer, you’d imagine we’ll continue to loan them out until the market settles down and buyers can be found.

[Fordy]

Not sure Wilson and Grujic belong in the same bracket of young players as the ones that Klopp talked about yesterday.

They’re older, played a lot more first-team football across several seasons now, are both senior internationals. The picture is much clearer where they’re concerned, both are talented players who are unlikely to play enough first-team football at Liverpool to continue their development so if they can’t be sold this summer, you’d imagine we’ll continue to loan them out until the market settles down and buyers can be found.

No necessarily...The likes of Havey, Clarkson, Cain, Hoever and Williams etc need to play and it's more important that they continue with the under 23, train with the 1st team but play games. Wilson and Grujic don't need to play as much because they're established and can be squad players getting minutes here and there with us like Jones. As players they won't want to go out on loan again. 

[Bucko - Dubai]

No one is talking about them being a regular though.

It's a squad game. We won the PL, Super Cup and World Club Cup but failed sorted in the FA Cup and League Cup. No one is talking about these players replacing Salah or anything but to make up the squad because they are good enough too then kick on from there.

Get it into your head we are not signing Messi or anything.

Seems we have different opinions of what is good enough as a squad player. I think signings like Minamino are better for the squad who have played in big games and are more experienced.

Obviously not expecting the likes of Messi, but please tell me which of the list you think will be good enough squad players.
I explained the top 4 would be squad players. Grujic would be too but there is too much competition in that position.

Which from the list do you disagre with and who do you think that I've said will leave, will be a good squad player

[royhendo]

Taking this list from Wiki of players that have come through the academy and made some appearances for Liverpool, and those that have gone on elsewhere, shows how tough it is to be a regular.

Worth qualifying this as from the 2nd image, a few have gone on to have pretty good careers:

Coady
Kelly
San Jose
Gulacsi

Are you saying that unless a player cements himself in the first team for a decade or more, he hasn't made it?

[Sangria]

What some people are forgetting is that a lot of the youngsters haven't been under full time coaching by Jürgen and the team. Give them a few months full time under that and being with the first team squad, and their overall game will improve guaranteed. I just hope the business side of the club understands that.

The new/young players also need to be trusted more by the senior players. Watching Williams against Palace, I noted that he was taking up good positions, but he wasn't really trusted as an option, as the ball kept going elsewhere. It struck me that Minamino was also facing the same thing, maybe to a lesser extent. A lot of energy offering an outlet, but rarely trusted with the ball. I'm guessing that more training together and greater familiarity with each other will iron this out.

[rebel23]

Wilson and Grujic don't need to play as much because they're established and can be squad players getting minutes here and there with us like Jones. As players they won't want to go out on loan again. 

Jones is definitely good enough to get minutes/games in my opinion..

[royhendo]

Also on Matip - Fabinho's fit.

[rawcusk8]

Matip out for the rest of the season. I can really see us going for Ben White then loaning him to Leeds next season in the PL.

That transfer makes sense. Matip is injury prone and Lovern has a year left on his contract.

Hoever might have a chance of some minutes now Matip is out for the season.

How does loaning him out make sense when the likes of Matip and Lovren are so injury prone?

[So… Howard Philips]

Also on Matip - Fabinho's fit.

And Gini's layer there - once.

[Fordy]

Also on Matip - Fabinho's fit.

This is true but hes playing out of the world again at DM and doubt he will be moved back to CB. Gini might but I believe he will give Hoever some minutes if required.