Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1440269 times)

Online Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22520 on: May 20, 2019, 10:12:03 pm »
Banning of free media from political activity is classic fascism.......so it continues......

Fascism 101

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22521 on: May 20, 2019, 10:15:50 pm »
Lord Michael Heseltine has the tory whip withdrawn, after saying he'll vote for Lib Dems, over the tories Brexit stance
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48344485

Looking forward to the Tories now combing the membership for those saying they'll vote for Frottage. They should announce it, just for the giggles of implying they'll be going through members' social media postings before the EHRC gets round to it.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22522 on: May 20, 2019, 10:23:38 pm »
I don’t think it’s right to throw milkshakes at politicians.  Even the ones I hate.


But I must say the guy who threw a milkshake on Farrage today have one of the funniest answers to the press I’ve ever read
:lmao



:lmao
coke floats is the logical successor to this

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22523 on: May 20, 2019, 10:25:38 pm »
I think we would've seen a massive Labour vote if they came out full Remain, but not to be.
Yeah,am sure he would have won far more support and respect from millions of remain voters as well.
The fight was about stopping the country from being polarised rather than arguing we will unite the country after it's become polarised. the best way would have gone out campaigning to remain with strong arguments on why the countries better off in the EU, how a vote to leave will bring a hard right Brexit. Austerity. etc. all the benefits of being in the EU. many of his interviews started off arguing about whats wrong with the EU, we will never know if his influence could have brought about a vote to remain but surely the leader of the Labour party must have a lot of influence over all the left leave voters. 650.000 leave voters switching to remain and we would not be going through all this s...
A lot more has happened since and ive not heard or read anything Corbyn has said to influence voters on Brexit, even now we are hearing spin to defend Labours position, unite the country in hope not fear. nothing could be further than the truth, millions of voters have lost hope in our political system, it will take more than a few meaningless soundbites to bring that belief back.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22524 on: May 21, 2019, 01:12:16 pm »
PM will make a statement on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill later this afternoon. Seems, from cabinet leaks to journalists, that it's very similar to what was trailed in the talks with Labour. Indicative votes on 4 different forms of customs union. Promises on guarantees that Parliament will set the negotiating objectives for the future relationship etc. Hints of trying to prevent a future fuck up by tying things into devolved government consent. etc etc etc.

In effect, it's a more explicit version of what's always been on offer - "accept Brexit now and next general election will decide just how 'hard' it will be".
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22525 on: May 21, 2019, 01:18:57 pm »
Ive come to accept Brexit will happen

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22526 on: May 21, 2019, 01:19:45 pm »
PM will make a statement on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill later this afternoon. Seems, from cabinet leaks to journalists, that it's very similar to what was trailed in the talks with Labour. Indicative votes on 4 different forms of customs union. Promises on guarantees that Parliament will set the negotiating objectives for the future relationship etc. Hints of trying to prevent a future fuck up by tying things into devolved government consent. etc etc etc.

In effect, it's a more explicit version of what's always been on offer - "accept Brexit now and next general election will decide just how 'hard' it will be".

Oh, god have mercy.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22527 on: May 21, 2019, 01:44:41 pm »
I knew that Andrea Jenkyns was a clueless c*nt but her appearance on the Daily Politics further illustrated what a fucking stupid cow she really is. Couldn't answer a single question on EU trade deals.

Its absolutely laughable how these MP's pick up £80k. The line has been used for years how these lot can earn more money in other industries. Can they fuck earn more in other industries.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22528 on: May 21, 2019, 01:55:32 pm »
Ive come to accept Brexit will happen

Based on how well it is all going?

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22529 on: May 21, 2019, 02:26:37 pm »
PM will make a statement on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill later this afternoon. Seems, from cabinet leaks to journalists, that it's very similar to what was trailed in the talks with Labour. Indicative votes on 4 different forms of customs union. Promises on guarantees that Parliament will set the negotiating objectives for the future relationship etc. Hints of trying to prevent a future fuck up by tying things into devolved government consent. etc etc etc.

In effect, it's a more explicit version of what's always been on offer - "accept Brexit now and next general election will decide just how 'hard' it will be".

A "temporary customs union" until the next GE is a pathetic offer. Not just because it's only temporary but the transition period + the option to extend it until 2022 serves the same purpose.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22530 on: May 21, 2019, 02:48:42 pm »
I think Brexit will probably happen as well, and I think the likelihood of no deal is rising significantly as well.

At this stage I am almost indiferent between either May or Corbyn's Brexit model (which is far from a soft Brexit) and a No Deal, both are shit economically, obviously No Deal is worse but politically it kills the betrayal narrative and if any of the Remain supporting parties are at least vaguely competent, you can at least pin the ensuing economic carnage on the Far Right nutters.. Maybe its something that can stop the descent into populist madness....

This country is in a pretty dark place now and I don't think things are going to get any lighter.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 02:51:13 pm by filopastry »

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22531 on: May 21, 2019, 03:00:07 pm »
I think Brexit will probably happen as well, and I think the likelihood of no deal is rising significantly as well.

At this stage I am almost indiferent between either May or Corbyn's Brexit model (which is far from a soft Brexit) and a No Deal, both are shit economically, obviously No Deal is worse but politically it kills the betrayal narrative and if any of the Remain supporting parties are at least vaguely competent, you can at least pin the ensuing economic carnage on the Far Right nutters..

This country is in a pretty dark place now and I don't think things are going to get any lighter.

I think one of the nutters becoming PM possibly isn't a bad thing for Remainers. It will force soft Brexiteers to jump off the fence - either onto the "we must deliver on the referendum, even if it means leaving without a deal" side or the "I don't like the idea of another referendum but if it's what it takes to avoid a no deal, then so be it" side.

I still haven't lost all hope that particularly the Labour MPs who to date have held back from supporting a referendum will opt for the latter. Ultimately, constituents will be more angry about losing their jobs than perceived "betrayal" of a 2016 vote, or the continuation of FOM.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 03:09:04 pm by ShakaHislop »

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22532 on: May 21, 2019, 03:09:43 pm »
Quote
Mr Francois dismissed comments to be made later by Philip Hammond, who will warn prospective Conservative leadership contenders against "hijacking" Brexit by "knowingly inflicting" a damaging no-deal exit on the economy.

The chancellor will tell business leaders that there is "no mandate" for such a no-deal exit and that even with "all the preparation in the world" it would be highly damaging.

"To advocate for no deal is to hijack the result of the referendum and in doing so knowingly to inflict damage on our economy and our living standards," he will say.

Mr Francois said the chancellor was a "Remain fanatic" and he suggested the public increasingly backed leaving with a deal and trading with the EU using World Trade Organization rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48339923

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22533 on: May 21, 2019, 03:19:10 pm »
A "temporary customs union" until the next GE is a pathetic offer. Not just because it's only temporary but the transition period + the option to extend it until 2022 serves the same purpose.

From what I've scanned so far from leaks, I'm not seeing anything new to any of this. Just repackaged concessions from past year or so being put a little more plainly. Of course, the plainer it is spelled out then the more likely it is that May loses more support than she gains. One of the reasons why they've got the WAB in a reading room for even the cabinet is to stop Brexiters self-combusting when it's laid out plainly in front of them that they're getting a lame donkey with a dildo on its head.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline vagabond

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22534 on: May 21, 2019, 03:39:28 pm »
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1130842113040633856

He's lucky it's only milkshake thus far. Fucking fascist.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22535 on: May 21, 2019, 03:56:31 pm »
From what I've scanned so far from leaks, I'm not seeing anything new to any of this. Just repackaged concessions from past year or so being put a little more plainly. Of course, the plainer it is spelled out then the more likely it is that May loses more support than she gains. One of the reasons why they've got the WAB in a reading room for even the cabinet is to stop Brexiters self-combusting when it's laid out plainly in front of them that they're getting a lame donkey with a dildo on its head.
I don't know why she continues down this path. It's clear as day that she's going to haemorrhage support because she's come up with a pathetic compromise for an issue on which nobody wants to compromise. The Tory party is probably going to split anyway. A second referendum is the only sane exit route.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22536 on: May 21, 2019, 04:04:19 pm »
I don't know why she continues down this path. It's clear as day that she's going to haemorrhage support because she's come up with a pathetic compromise for an issue on which nobody wants to compromise. The Tory party is probably going to split anyway. A second referendum is the only sane exit route.

Apparently May was willing to put a second referendum in there but the headbangers in cabinet kicked off. (via Guardian's Rowena Mason). Enough Tories won't vote for a second referendum, and then continue doing that to see it through to happening, but neither will they vote for a general election til May's gone.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22537 on: May 21, 2019, 04:19:31 pm »
May has painted herself into a corner now. I just can't see any other outcome other than her resignation before a Brexit agreement.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22538 on: May 21, 2019, 04:36:03 pm »
You can feel the desperation in her. That line about another referendum threatening liberal democracy was a cracker.

She can get fucked with that offer of a vote on whether to have another referendum. Nandy and the other Labour appeasers got their bollocks added to the bill without having to jump through the same hoops.

Reject the bill at the 1st opportunity, send May packing and carry on the fight for another ref against the no-deal nutjob that succeeds her.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 04:43:43 pm by ShakaHislop »

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22539 on: May 21, 2019, 04:41:35 pm »
Last red line is to end freedom of movement. For leadership of both main parties. Joy.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22540 on: May 21, 2019, 04:42:24 pm »
Last red line is to end freedom of movement. For leadership of both main parties. Joy.

Being in a full customs union is still a May red line, no?

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22541 on: May 21, 2019, 04:45:59 pm »
Being in a full customs union is still a May red line, no?

No, because she's offering a route to that via vote.

Although offering 'options' is really only a statement of the reality that parliament can amend the WAB however the fuck it pleases.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22542 on: May 21, 2019, 05:00:28 pm »
Will any of these things she says she is offering also have to be passed by the EU?

It feels like some of the things could also need agreement from the EU.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22543 on: May 21, 2019, 05:03:51 pm »
No, because she's offering a route to that via vote.

Although offering 'options' is really only a statement of the reality that parliament can amend the WAB however the fuck it pleases.

She's not offering a permanent full customs union, which is what Labour want. It's a choice between the maxfac malarkey and the temporary customs union.



https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1130860631177875456

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22544 on: May 21, 2019, 05:07:19 pm »
Quote
So, MPs are offered a vote on whether there will be a final say public vote on her deal if we pass her Withdrawal Bill. That's very different to offering a public vote in return for passing her Bill. Struggling to see how the PM has really shifted her position.

https://twitter.com/Bill_Esterson/status/1130864287235432451

Quote
1/ The PM is asking MPs to vote for a Bill that takes us out of the EU - in Scotland’s case against our will - out of the single market and possibly out of the Customs Union. And with no actual commitment to put the deal to a second referendum. @theSNP will not do that.

2/ in PM’s own words, “if MPs vote against the Bill, they will be voting to stop Brexit.” That is what @theSNP will do because Scotland did not vote for Brexit.  #StopBrexit

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1130860179233398784
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:09:54 pm by ShakaHislop »

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22545 on: May 21, 2019, 05:11:49 pm »
I dont get it.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22546 on: May 21, 2019, 05:22:02 pm »
She's not offering a permanent full customs union, which is what Labour want. It's a choice between the maxfac malarkey and the temporary customs union.

Latter is the route to Labour getting what it wants re. customs union. Permanent is forever, temporary is forever minus a day. Contrast with language on freedom of movement.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22547 on: May 21, 2019, 05:25:51 pm »
She's not offering a permanent full customs union, which is what Labour want. It's a choice between the maxfac malarkey and the temporary customs union.



https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1130860631177875456

What a pile of shite.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22548 on: May 21, 2019, 05:26:45 pm »
Latter is the route to Labour getting what it wants re. customs union. Permanent is forever, temporary is forever minus a day. Contrast with language on freedom of movement.

It's also a route to the Brexit nutters getting what they want.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22549 on: May 21, 2019, 05:28:41 pm »
I dont get it.

It's like she honestly believes everyone else in the country is cool with putting the future of the Conservative party before any other consideration. That can't even be applied to everyone the Conservative party.

Ultimately, as has been apparent for a long time now, the whole Brexit farrago crystalises a wider war of ideologies and the only people she's appealing to are the politically-unengaged "bored of this whole thing, it's been too many news cycles do a deal, move on". It's the exact attitude I get from my mother, who proudly tells me she's never voted for anything in her life.

The people who are actually taking sides on this are too far apart to suffer compromise. The Tory grassroots that are now turning out in droves for Frottage have been led by the nose (including by "Brexit means Brexit May") to the conclusion that a #nodeal #letsgoWTO result is the only true pathway to freedom, whilst the liberal remainers are horrified at giving up any of the advantages and benefits of EU membership (I hate how May and others bang on about the end of FoM as a positive. How any politician can get away with standing in front of the public and tell them they're being stripped of a major right as if it's a service should be criminal).

...

Oh and I'm sure at one point she was harping on about just getting it done etc and then 5 minutes later said the bill was a starting point and there would be many years of negotiation for the final relationship... way to get even the 'bored of this' public onside.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22550 on: May 21, 2019, 05:31:24 pm »
Latter is the route to Labour getting what it wants re. customs union. Permanent is forever, temporary is forever minus a day. Contrast with language on freedom of movement.

That route requires Labour to win a GE. It's a weak offer if all it involves is a temporary customs union + the stating of the obvious that a Labour government can do what it wants.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22551 on: May 21, 2019, 05:31:43 pm »
It's also a route to the Brexit nutters getting what they want.

As with a lot else in what May said, it's just saying the quiet part out loud, isn't it? New Labour government comes in and spends all its political capital on negotiating vaguely in line with that policy ('a say' haha). Next Tory government in afterwards can tear it up if it wants to.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22552 on: May 21, 2019, 05:33:01 pm »
That route requires Labour to win a GE. It's a weak offer if all it involves is a temporary customs union + the stating of the obvious that a Labour government can do what it wants.

It's a really, really weak offer - see offer for 2nd referendum too. If one were feeling generous, it's only purpose seems to be to try to politically shame those voting against it.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22553 on: May 21, 2019, 05:42:14 pm »
it's only purpose seems to be to try to politically shame those voting against it.

Yeah, this is the reason for the "vote this through or stop brexit" line - May wants to be able to walk out of office with either this passed ("done what I set out to do") or be able to let the public pin the blame on specific MPs who 'voted to stop Brexit' etc.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22554 on: May 21, 2019, 05:46:13 pm »
Impressively it is such a fudge it actually seems to be losing support from Tories who held their nose and voted for it last time.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22555 on: May 21, 2019, 05:55:58 pm »
Impressively it is such a fudge it actually seems to be losing support from Tories who held their nose and voted for it last time.

Many have already said that they will go back to their original stance of rejection.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22556 on: May 21, 2019, 05:56:16 pm »
Sky are saying at least 8 Tory MPs that voted for it last time will now vote against it.

Labour are saying they will vote against it.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 06:04:24 pm by Big Jezza’s Jizza »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22557 on: May 21, 2019, 06:02:35 pm »
Sky are saying...

Wouldn't pay any attention to the biased MSM though, would you?
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22558 on: May 21, 2019, 06:03:06 pm »
Some of the Beebs top rated HYS:

5. Posted by Alexander Nevermind on 25 minutes ago

'Once in a generation vote' you said.

'The Government will implement what you decide' you said.

'No deal is better than a bad deal' you said 108 times.

Sorry Tories, no more. You can no longer be trusted. You have truly lost this voter, and everyone one I talk to around me. If we get Jeremy so be it.

I have to vote Brexit Party from here on in, simply to have a voice.


1. Posted by Watching the slow death of democracy on 26 minutes ago

Let me tell you something Tessa. Brexit will not be stopped, and if need be Frottage will lead this country out. Whatever stitch up you force on us, we will undo. We are British. 


4. Posted by Math Man on 25 minutes ago

Her bold new deal is nothing more than a BrINO document with a Remainers CU and Referendum.
A truly bold new deal would include;
1. Really leave the EU
2. UK open to free trade deals with the world
3. A major investment fund for UK industry and commerce
4. UK being an independent nation state confident in its people
MM


8. Posted by BMT-An Alternative View on 24 minutes ago

No deal, leave now, end this misery. We've already had a referendum and the answer was clear for all to see.


9. Posted by Yorkshire Mark on 28 minutes ago

The EU will charge £bns each year for a customs union. We will have to take migrants too, hardly Brexit.

The EU will not give the UK a free trade deal in the hope Corbyn will force us to concede defeat and remain in the EU, but without any rebate.

Therefore the only way forward is to leave the EU then see if they will offer a deal. If not, so be it. Japanese cars and wine from Oz it is.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22559 on: May 21, 2019, 06:06:14 pm »
Some of the Beebs top rated HYS:

5. Posted by Alexander Nevermind on 25 minutes ago

'Once in a generation vote' you said.

'The Government will implement what you decide' you said.

'No deal is better than a bad deal' you said 108 times.

Sorry Tories, no more. You can no longer be trusted. You have truly lost this voter, and everyone one I talk to around me. If we get Jeremy so be it.

I have to vote Brexit Party from here on in, simply to have a voice.


1. Posted by Watching the slow death of democracy on 26 minutes ago

Let me tell you something Tessa. Brexit will not be stopped, and if need be Frottage will lead this country out. Whatever stitch up you force on us, we will undo. We are British. 


4. Posted by Math Man on 25 minutes ago

Her bold new deal is nothing more than a BrINO document with a Remainers CU and Referendum.
A truly bold new deal would include;
1. Really leave the EU
2. UK open to free trade deals with the world
3. A major investment fund for UK industry and commerce
4. UK being an independent nation state confident in its people
MM


8. Posted by BMT-An Alternative View on 24 minutes ago

No deal, leave now, end this misery. We've already had a referendum and the answer was clear for all to see.


9. Posted by Yorkshire Mark on 28 minutes ago

The EU will charge £bns each year for a customs union. We will have to take migrants too, hardly Brexit.

The EU will not give the UK a free trade deal in the hope Corbyn will force us to concede defeat and remain in the EU, but without any rebate.

Therefore the only way forward is to leave the EU then see if they will offer a deal. If not, so be it. Japanese cars and wine from Oz it is.

Fucking hell... where do you even start?
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