Author Topic: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63  (Read 37494 times)

Offline Yiannis

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,033
  • Reds fan from Greece
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #680 on: March 4, 2020, 11:35:35 am »
Second half performance was disappointing. Oh and the last shot on target came in the 31st minute of the game? Yikes.
Messi in fact doesn't have a recognizable trait.

Offline smutchin

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,577
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #681 on: March 4, 2020, 11:40:26 am »
Barkley is garbage which makes it even worse.  We allowed a garbage player to stroll around, exert his influence as a when he pleased and waltz through our defence to score.

As I said to my colleague this morning: "You know you're playing badly when you make Ross Barkley look good."

Offline Medellin

  • Self-confessed daft meff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,543
  • Sound
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #682 on: March 4, 2020, 11:42:49 am »
Barkley is garbage which makes it even worse.  We allowed a garbage player to stroll around, exert his influence as a when he pleased and waltz through our defence to score.

Jones will learn a lot from last night & his mistake leading to that goal which was another mess defensively, I think Adrian could have done better too.
Support the team,Trust & Believe.

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,186
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #683 on: March 4, 2020, 12:23:15 pm »
The problem is that it's simple what the teams are doing. All copying A.Madrid...

I don't watch La Liga, but a quick glance at the table sees Atleti in 5th place, and only the third best team in the Madrid area going by points gained.

With this in mind, other Spanish clubs must be having a fair bit of success against them and how they set up. Maybe looking at how other sides who play them regularly cope against them might just give us some ideas of our own. I would imagine if an internet buffoon like me can work this out, I'm sure Klopp and his staff will also have checked it out too. It's not as if teams only play like this against us. Loads have parked the bus and tried to hit us on the break, but we've tended to overwhelm them until recently.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jόrgen.

Offline Timbo's Goals

  • Petrified of THE BEAST
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,470
  • JFT96
    • Timbos Liverpool
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #684 on: March 4, 2020, 12:30:47 pm »
Barkley is garbage.

You do realise that comment speaks more about your fucking ignorance of footy and footballers than some of the possible limitations of Ross Barkeley as a footballer - which as it happens aren't that many.

Or maybe you don't actually know.

Offline KillieRed

  • Jaro a.k.a. goatjumpingqueuefucker
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,236
  • Nemo me impune lacessit.
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #685 on: March 4, 2020, 12:33:35 pm »
You do realise that comment speaks more about your fucking ignorance of footy and footballers than some of the possible limitations of Ross Barkeley as a footballer - which as it happens aren't that many.

Or maybe you don't actually know.

It was me that said it, he just agreed.

Would you prefer that i said "He`s not very good amongst the 0.1% of wannabe footballers who actually become a professional"? Well there you go.

He`s very limited.
He`s not the best.
I`ve seen better.
He`s not of the standard required to be a player at a top football club.
I don`t think he`s very good*
etc etc



*Caveats as stated above.
The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich” - Idles.

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,342
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #686 on: March 4, 2020, 12:43:19 pm »
I'm not one to overreact but I'd wack £100m to Dortmund for Sancho and teach him to play as a no.10.

Sign Werner too. And play 4 out of the 5. Selling Origi and Shaqiri.

As I said I'm not one to overreact.

Regardless of what happens this season there is a genuine question about the squad and how much work is needed going forward. There will be plenty of work going on I suspect.

Offline lobsterboy

  • Sworn enemy of crayfishgirl. Likes to draw spunking cocks n balls at sunday school
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,877
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #687 on: March 4, 2020, 12:50:33 pm »
Bossed by fat fwank and an 18 year old. Made Ross Barkeley look like Brazilian Ronaldo.
Referee didn't help but we caused our problems really.
Mentality midgets at the moment.

Offline Phil M

  • YNWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 58,982
  • Bravery is believing in yourself" Rafael Benitez
    • I coulda been a contenda.....
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #688 on: March 4, 2020, 12:51:32 pm »
Bossed by fat fwank and an 18 year old. Made Ross Barkeley look like Brazilian Ronaldo.
Referee didn't help but we caused our problems really.
Mentality midgets at the moment.


We were also without Alisson, Trent, Gini, Hendo and Salah and Firmino as starters. Chelsea are a good side and was always going to be a tricky tie away from home for us.
We had chances, our keeper made a mistake, one of those nights. On we march to No.19.
It's true to say that if Shankly had told us to invade Poland we'd be queuing up 10 deep all the way from Anfield to the Pier Head.

Offline rakey_lfc

  • pwned by Ronaldo...and eBay
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,004
  • I'm a people's man - only the people matter.”
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #689 on: March 4, 2020, 12:56:32 pm »
The intensity hasn't been there for me for a few games now. We don't seem to be as energetic and as fast on the press. Including the games with Henderson against Norwich and Atletico. The hunger appears to missing. It's simply a dip for me, I don't see this being a long term issues, just need to ride it out.

What I do want to see against Bournemouth is us treating it like its a cup final and going all out to smash them. Not sure it will happen with Atletico up soon too.
SUPPORT AND BELIEVE
 
You'll Never Walk Alone

Xbox 360 gamertag - TonyB1604

Offline andy07

  • Shat himself
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,953
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #690 on: March 4, 2020, 01:23:18 pm »
You do realise that comment speaks more about your fucking ignorance of footy and footballers than some of the possible limitations of Ross Barkeley as a footballer - which as it happens aren't that many.

Or maybe you don't actually know.

Hmmm,  in the context of the level we usually play at he is poor.  Would you put him in our midfield?
We are Loyal Supporters

Offline smutchin

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,577
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #691 on: March 4, 2020, 01:27:28 pm »
Hmmm,  in the context of the level we usually play at he is poor.  Would you put him in our midfield?

He's comparable to Ox in many ways, and right now I certainly wouldn't choose him over Ox.

Might have done once upon a time, but Barkley has failed to live up to his early promise since moving to Chelsea - though to be fair this may be in part due to the injuries he has had.

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,186
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #692 on: March 4, 2020, 01:34:10 pm »
Just watching the highlights back and it's clear that everything ran for the home side apart from the occasions they hit the woodwork instead of scoring. Very little ran our way on the night. Both of their goals were very fortunate. The first a defensive error then a goalkeeping error. The second a travesty in defending from midfield onwards. How on earth is Barkley allowed to run from his own half and get a shot off without a single challenge on him?

No excuses though, as they seemed quicker, more purposeful and seemed to want if far more. I expected them to win the tie as soon as it was drawn, but the manner is rather galling.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jόrgen.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

  • old and annoying
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,483
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #693 on: March 4, 2020, 01:35:51 pm »
Just watching the highlights back and it's clear that everything ran for the home side apart from the occasions they hit the woodwork instead of scoring. Very little ran our way on the night. Both of their goals were very fortunate. The first a defensive error then a goalkeeping error. The second a travesty in defending from midfield onwards. How on earth is Barkley allowed to run from his own half and get a shot off without a single challenge on him?

No excuses though, as they seemed quicker, more purposeful and seemed to want if far more. I expected them to win the tie as soon as it was drawn, but the manner is rather galling.

This isn't fortunate this is poor play on our part.
"The greatest argument against democracy is to have a five minute conversation  with the average voter. "

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

  • Apologies if I haven't responded to every post in every thread yet, I'm trying hard. farKnow.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,685
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #694 on: March 4, 2020, 01:36:33 pm »
Just watching the highlights back and it's clear that everything ran for the home side apart from the occasions they hit the woodwork instead of scoring. Very little ran our way on the night. Both of their goals were very fortunate. The first a defensive error then a goalkeeping error. The second a travesty in defending from midfield onwards. How on earth is Barkley allowed to run from his own half and get a shot off without a single challenge on him?

No excuses though, as they seemed quicker, more purposeful and seemed to want if far more. I expected them to win the tie as soon as it was drawn, but the manner is rather galling.

The 2nd goal to me is primarily down to Van Dijk. he goes needlessly to win the ball in the air, and doesn't, at that point we're already past the halfway line, with only really Fabinho back in midfield who already has a yellow in that moment.

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,186
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #695 on: March 4, 2020, 01:36:42 pm »
This isn't fortunate this is poor play on our part.
Yes, they were fortunate that our poor play allowed it. Both were gifts.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jόrgen.

Offline HardworkDedication

  • Hardwork and Dedication linked to many stories - Mingebag. Has no opinion of his own. Human news ticker tape.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,103
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #696 on: March 4, 2020, 01:41:41 pm »
Liverpool have a big Fabinho problem, and Jόrgen Klopp needs to make a ruthless decision now

The Brazilian has looked off-the-pace since his return from injury, and it's time for the manager to make some difficult choices.

By Oliver Connolly Staff Writer
01:00, 4 MAR 2020

Ever since his return from injury, Fabinho's play has toggled somewhere between blah and awful. At first, that could be put down to rust. But he doesn't deserve that benefit of the doubt anymore.

In the last three games he has looked slow, pedestrian on the ball, and more of a hindrance than a help in the transition game — both attacking and defending He is not the sole reason why Liverpool have lost three of their past four games, and he's not solely to blame for the team's latest loss, losing 2-0 last night to Chelsea in the FA Cup fifth-round. But he is high on the worry list.

For much of the Chelsea game, Fabinho looked completely off the pace. The numbers are jarring and brutal: zero tackles, zero aerial duals won, dispossessed twice, one error leading to a goal, and one yellow card — which meant he was unable to bring down Ross Barkley as the Chelsea midfielder surged forward to score the second goal on Tuesday night.

Prior to his November injury, the midfielder was redefining what it meant to be a single pivot in a Klopp team. He set the tempo of play, kept the ball ticking over, and would consistently, naturally, drop into the backline to form a back three alongside Virgil van Dijk and Joe Gomez.

Fabinho was lauded for his defensive work. Few, if any, players were better in the league at shielding his back two. He seemed to be anywhere and everywhere at all times, apparently apparating into position. Those long, gangly legs allowed him to close ground in a way the likes of Jordan Henderson simply couldn’t. Where they looked like the defensive work took effort, Fabinho looked a natural.

What set him apart, though, was his work on the ball. He initiated a bunch of Liverpool’s build-up playing: spreading the ball out to either fullback, pinging it in between the lines, or moving with the ball himself — gathering it off Alisson before breaking the first point of the press.

All of that has vanished in the past five games. He's looked sluggish on the ball, has been routinely dispossessed, and has looked like he's moving at a completely different speed to the rest of the match — but not in a good way. Earlier in the year he was averaging 8 ball losses per 90. Since his return, that number has ballooned to 14, with five of them coming in his own half.

Tuesday's performance against Chelsea was his worst yet. He was routinely isolated and overloaded in the central areas. But whenever he was required to think two or three steps ahead, to shuffle across and snuff out danger before Chelsea could break the lines, he was two or three steps behind.

There is an argument to be made that what we've seen in recent weeks is a rusty Fabinho who's still to get over his injury. It's the first time in his career that he's experienced a knock that has ruled him out for multiple games. Those arguments hold some validity, but they deserve the follow up response: then why is he playing?

Is Klopp trying to play him back into form? Is the player struggling to manage his return, meaning the issue is getting worse not better as he plays?

It was noticeable how visibly frustrated Klopp was with Fabinho throughout the second-half. For a 15-minute spell, Klopp turned towards his own bench and unloaded to his support staff about the midfielder after each and every decision. If Fabinho played the ball to feet, the boss was unhappy with the spend or length of the pass. If he tried to switch the play, Klopp was unhappy that the ball was clipped to someone’s chest rather than drilled to their feet along the ground.

It was a frustration born of the past few weeks not just the previous 45-minutes. Fabinho was once one of the most reliable players in the team, and he's now become a liability.

Chelsea's second goal was indicative of all the issues. A poor, clumsy, pointless challenge not five minutes earlier had resulted in his booking. As Chelsea went to take a throw in, he found himself caught ahead of the game, strolling beyond Ross Barkley. As Barkley gathered steam towards the Liverpool goal, Fabinho had no choice but dawdle past him, unable to bring him down. Barkley slammed the ball to put Chelsea 2-nil up.

Klopp has a big decision to make. With Jordan Henderson out, Fabinho has been the sure-fire number six. But his play has been so sloppy that that should now be up for discussion. Will Klopp shift to a double pivot look, perhaps lining up in a 4-2-3-1 to give Fabinho more cover? Will he give James Milner a chance to slot in at the number six slot in a like-for-like swap? Or, perhaps would he be willing to give Pedro Chirivella a chance against Bournemouth at the weekend, if only to give Fabinho a mental and physical breather — though Klopp opted to keep Chirivella on the bench despite Fabinho's struggles at Chelsea.

What's clear is something needs to change, even if just for 90 minutes. Call it rust. Call it a dip in form. Call it whatever. The worst run of Liverpool's season, which has seen them loss a chance at an invincible league campaign, slip in the Champions League and dumped from the FA cup, has corresponded with a drop in Fabinho's play. On the ball and off it he's been poor. And the manager needs to find a fix.

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-fabinho-cup-17857743

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,186
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #697 on: March 4, 2020, 01:42:06 pm »
The 2nd goal to me is primarily down to Van Dijk. he goes needlessly to win the ball in the air, and doesn't, at that point we're already past the halfway line, with only really Fabinho back in midfield who already has a yellow in that moment.
Also, from what I saw, the Fabinho yellow was a travesty.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jόrgen.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

  • Apologies if I haven't responded to every post in every thread yet, I'm trying hard. farKnow.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,685
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #698 on: March 4, 2020, 01:46:05 pm »
That article is spot on unfortunately. fabinho is significantly off the pace, and I wonder if Klopp is going to play Wijnaldum as the 6 against Atletico, with Milner and Ox as the other two midfielders. Maybe Keita if he's fit by then.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

  • old and annoying
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,483
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #699 on: March 4, 2020, 01:46:28 pm »
zero tackles, zero aerial duals won, dispossessed twice,

 :o
"The greatest argument against democracy is to have a five minute conversation  with the average voter. "

Offline jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jόrgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 77,354
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #700 on: March 4, 2020, 01:50:25 pm »
Liverpool have a big Fabinho problem, and Jόrgen Klopp needs to make a ruthless decision now

The Brazilian has looked off-the-pace since his return from injury, and it's time for the manager to make some difficult choices.

By Oliver Connolly Staff Writer
01:00, 4 MAR 2020

Ever since his return from injury, Fabinho's play has toggled somewhere between blah and awful. At first, that could be put down to rust. But he doesn't deserve that benefit of the doubt anymore.

In the last three games he has looked slow, pedestrian on the ball, and more of a hindrance than a help in the transition game — both attacking and defending He is not the sole reason why Liverpool have lost three of their past four games, and he's not solely to blame for the team's latest loss, losing 2-0 last night to Chelsea in the FA Cup fifth-round. But he is high on the worry list.

For much of the Chelsea game, Fabinho looked completely off the pace. The numbers are jarring and brutal: zero tackles, zero aerial duals won, dispossessed twice, one error leading to a goal, and one yellow card — which meant he was unable to bring down Ross Barkley as the Chelsea midfielder surged forward to score the second goal on Tuesday night.

Prior to his November injury, the midfielder was redefining what it meant to be a single pivot in a Klopp team. He set the tempo of play, kept the ball ticking over, and would consistently, naturally, drop into the backline to form a back three alongside Virgil van Dijk and Joe Gomez.

Fabinho was lauded for his defensive work. Few, if any, players were better in the league at shielding his back two. He seemed to be anywhere and everywhere at all times, apparently apparating into position. Those long, gangly legs allowed him to close ground in a way the likes of Jordan Henderson simply couldn’t. Where they looked like the defensive work took effort, Fabinho looked a natural.

What set him apart, though, was his work on the ball. He initiated a bunch of Liverpool’s build-up playing: spreading the ball out to either fullback, pinging it in between the lines, or moving with the ball himself — gathering it off Alisson before breaking the first point of the press.

All of that has vanished in the past five games. He's looked sluggish on the ball, has been routinely dispossessed, and has looked like he's moving at a completely different speed to the rest of the match — but not in a good way. Earlier in the year he was averaging 8 ball losses per 90. Since his return, that number has ballooned to 14, with five of them coming in his own half.

Tuesday's performance against Chelsea was his worst yet. He was routinely isolated and overloaded in the central areas. But whenever he was required to think two or three steps ahead, to shuffle across and snuff out danger before Chelsea could break the lines, he was two or three steps behind.

There is an argument to be made that what we've seen in recent weeks is a rusty Fabinho who's still to get over his injury. It's the first time in his career that he's experienced a knock that has ruled him out for multiple games. Those arguments hold some validity, but they deserve the follow up response: then why is he playing?

Is Klopp trying to play him back into form? Is the player struggling to manage his return, meaning the issue is getting worse not better as he plays?

It was noticeable how visibly frustrated Klopp was with Fabinho throughout the second-half. For a 15-minute spell, Klopp turned towards his own bench and unloaded to his support staff about the midfielder after each and every decision. If Fabinho played the ball to feet, the boss was unhappy with the spend or length of the pass. If he tried to switch the play, Klopp was unhappy that the ball was clipped to someone’s chest rather than drilled to their feet along the ground.

It was a frustration born of the past few weeks not just the previous 45-minutes. Fabinho was once one of the most reliable players in the team, and he's now become a liability.

Chelsea's second goal was indicative of all the issues. A poor, clumsy, pointless challenge not five minutes earlier had resulted in his booking. As Chelsea went to take a throw in, he found himself caught ahead of the game, strolling beyond Ross Barkley. As Barkley gathered steam towards the Liverpool goal, Fabinho had no choice but dawdle past him, unable to bring him down. Barkley slammed the ball to put Chelsea 2-nil up.

Klopp has a big decision to make. With Jordan Henderson out, Fabinho has been the sure-fire number six. But his play has been so sloppy that that should now be up for discussion. Will Klopp shift to a double pivot look, perhaps lining up in a 4-2-3-1 to give Fabinho more cover? Will he give James Milner a chance to slot in at the number six slot in a like-for-like swap? Or, perhaps would he be willing to give Pedro Chirivella a chance against Bournemouth at the weekend, if only to give Fabinho a mental and physical breather — though Klopp opted to keep Chirivella on the bench despite Fabinho's struggles at Chelsea.

What's clear is something needs to change, even if just for 90 minutes. Call it rust. Call it a dip in form. Call it whatever. The worst run of Liverpool's season, which has seen them loss a chance at an invincible league campaign, slip in the Champions League and dumped from the FA cup, has corresponded with a drop in Fabinho's play. On the ball and off it he's been poor. And the manager needs to find a fix.

https://www.liverpool.com/liverpool-fc-news/features/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-fabinho-cup-17857743

The overreaction on Fab is mind boggling to be honest. Don’t think anyone thinks his form is good at the moment. It feels like every time we lose a game a scapegoat has to be found. When you are coming back from a ligament injury it can take longer to find your rhythm. If there were set recovery times for players then football would be a lot easier. I fail to see what dropping him will do, as he needs to improve his sharpness. He can only do that by playing. There needs to be a little more support for these players.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline HardworkDedication

  • Hardwork and Dedication linked to many stories - Mingebag. Has no opinion of his own. Human news ticker tape.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,103
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #701 on: March 4, 2020, 01:53:45 pm »
That article is spot on unfortunately. fabinho is significantly off the pace, and I wonder if Klopp is going to play Wijnaldum as the 6 against Atletico, with Milner and Ox as the other two midfielders. Maybe Keita if he's fit by then.

Good shout. That's what I would go with too if Henderson isn't fit. Even if he is I still wouldn't start Fabinho. I have got nothing against him, he's a very important player for us. However, he is clearly not on his A game at the moment (it'll come) but we cannot afford to be playing players into form against Atletico. Every player needs to be on their A game from the get go.

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,186
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #702 on: March 4, 2020, 01:53:48 pm »
The overreaction on Fab is mind boggling to be honest. Don’t think anyone thinks his form is good at the moment. It feels like every time we lose a game a scapegoat has to be found. When you are coming back from a ligament injury it can take longer to find your rhythm. If there were set recovery times for players then football would be a lot easier. I fail to see what dropping him will do, as he needs to improve his sharpness. He can only do that by playing. There needs to be a little more support for these players.

I'm finding the wild overreaction to everything at the moment quite bizarre.

Of course, there are issues to address, but the overreaction is madness.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jόrgen.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

  • Apologies if I haven't responded to every post in every thread yet, I'm trying hard. farKnow.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,685
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #703 on: March 4, 2020, 01:54:33 pm »
His form is understandable jill, but right now our EC season hinges on getting a good performance and result against Atletico. It wouldn't surprise me if Klopp made a change for that game. If he does play this Saturday, he needs to put in a good performance, for his confidence and for the teams sake. Last nights performance was his worst since he's been at the club.

That doesn't mean he isn't getting support from us. It's the reality

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

  • Apologies if I haven't responded to every post in every thread yet, I'm trying hard. farKnow.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,685
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #704 on: March 4, 2020, 01:55:48 pm »
I'm finding the wild overreaction to everything at the moment quite bizarre.

Of course, there are issues to address, but the overreaction is madness.

That's because people started to think that we would win every single game [or at least not lose any game] for the remainder of the season. Which was unrealistic to begin with, this is what happens when you take winning for granted.

Offline Timbo's Goals

  • Petrified of THE BEAST
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,470
  • JFT96
    • Timbos Liverpool
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #705 on: March 4, 2020, 02:01:08 pm »
It was me that said it, he just agreed.

Would you prefer that i said "He`s not very good amongst the 0.1% of wannabe footballers who actually become a professional"? Well there you go.

He`s very limited.
He`s not the best.
I`ve seen better.
He`s not of the standard required to be a player at a top football club.
I don`t think he`s very good*
etc etc



*Caveats as stated above.

My most humble apologies Killie lad - I should have said it showed how fucking ignorant you both are

 ;D

Seriously, what standard of fucking football forum is this when football fans are dismissing as garbage a player as good as Ross Barkely. He may well be a c*nt of a person [don't know - although I have knobhead Blues saying as much] and he may well have some limitations to his game but there's absolutely no doubting he's a really fine player. Not perhaps quite at the top of the scale but certainly amongst the glut of really good midfielders not far below that level.

Offline redk84

  • (and nothing else!)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,122
  • why must we always do things the hard way?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #706 on: March 4, 2020, 02:03:17 pm »
Teams have been doing a variance of the same low bloc/pack the box shit against us for 2 years and we've won 90% of those games, they haven't just watched the Atletico and realised "defend deep and well" is the solution. We are going through a rut, confidence is low and you can clearly see some players are out of form, its disrupted us.

spot on.
All Those Who Have A Red Heart Can Rejoice.
For They Have Seen GOD.

Offline DelTrotter

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,663
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #707 on: March 4, 2020, 02:03:36 pm »
My most humble apologies Killie lad - I should have said it showed how fucking ignorant you both are

 ;D

Seriously, what standard of fucking football forum is this when football fans are dismissing as garbage a player as good as Ross Barkely. He may well be a c*nt of a person [don't know - although I have knobhead Blues saying as much] and he may well have some limitations to his game but there's absolutely no doubting he's a really fine player. Not perhaps quite at the top of the scale but certainly amongst the glut of really good midfielders not far below that level.

What a weird thing to get upset about, a blue who tried to end Jordan Henderson's career. And he's nowhere near a really good midfielder.

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #708 on: March 4, 2020, 02:07:07 pm »
My most humble apologies Killie lad - I should have said it showed how fucking ignorant you both are

 ;D

Seriously, what standard of fucking football forum is this when football fans are dismissing as garbage a player as good as Ross Barkely. He may well be a c*nt of a person [don't know - although I have knobhead Blues saying as much] and he may well have some limitations to his game but there's absolutely no doubting he's a really fine player. Not perhaps quite at the top of the scale but certainly amongst the glut of really good midfielders not far below that level.

If it makes you feel better/worse  ;), far better players than Ross Barkley have been dismissed as garbage or worse in this forum & in most other internet forums I've had the misfortune of taking a peep at  :D

Offline jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jόrgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 77,354
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #709 on: March 4, 2020, 02:08:57 pm »
His form is understandable jill, but right now our EC season hinges on getting a good performance and result against Atletico. It wouldn't surprise me if Klopp made a change for that game. If he does play this Saturday, he needs to put in a good performance, for his confidence and for the teams sake. Last nights performance was his worst since he's been at the club.

That doesn't mean he isn't getting support from us. It's the reality

I’m not sure if we can rely on Keita (as mentioned in another post by you), his injury record I find a lot more concerning than Fab’s temporary loss of form. Therein lies the problem as it would seem Hendo will not be fit (barring a miracle). Tampering with the team at this stage give little guarantee of success. I just feel we have to stay brave, these guys have  been brilliant. Give them the chance to prove people wrong.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,186
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #710 on: March 4, 2020, 02:11:59 pm »
That's because people started to think that we would win every single game [or at least not lose any game] for the remainder of the season. Which was unrealistic to begin with, this is what happens when you take winning for granted.

Oh definitely, and I've said similar in a number of threads.

Far too many declared the season over in January and believed we'd just cakewalk every game and bag the points and progress in the cups.

It's otherwise known as setting yourself up for a fall.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jόrgen.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

  • Apologies if I haven't responded to every post in every thread yet, I'm trying hard. farKnow.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,685
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #711 on: March 4, 2020, 02:12:49 pm »
I’m not sure if we can rely on Keita (as mentioned in another post by you), his injury record I find a lot more concerning than Fab’s temporary loss of form. Therein lies the problem as it would seem Hendo will not be fit (barring a miracle). Tampering with the team at this stage give little guarantee of success. I just feel we have to stay brave, these guys have  been brilliant. Give them the chance to prove people wrong.

I understand, but that's why it's a tough decision that Klopp will have to make either way. Tweaking things may be needed regardless of fabinho's form against Atletico as we found it difficult to create anything.

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,186
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #712 on: March 4, 2020, 02:15:42 pm »
My most humble apologies Killie lad - I should have said it showed how fucking ignorant you both are

 ;D

Seriously, what standard of fucking football forum is this when football fans are dismissing as garbage a player as good as Ross Barkely. He may well be a c*nt of a person [don't know - although I have knobhead Blues saying as much] and he may well have some limitations to his game but there's absolutely no doubting he's a really fine player. Not perhaps quite at the top of the scale but certainly amongst the glut of really good midfielders not far below that level.

I take it you've not been on many football forums then, Timbo.  ;)
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jόrgen.

Offline Timbo's Goals

  • Petrified of THE BEAST
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,470
  • JFT96
    • Timbos Liverpool
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #713 on: March 4, 2020, 02:17:38 pm »
I'm finding the wild overreaction to everything at the moment quite bizarre.

Of course, there are issues to address, but the overreaction is madness.

Agreed. Certainly as far as social media and the inane footy websites and forums are concerned. So much utter drivel spouted, most especially the desperation to find scapegoats.

The biggest concern for us at the moment is how vulnerable we are to the sucker punch counter attack invariably arising from our own errors and sloppiness in turn often fed by our seeming fruitless determination to try to pass our way through a packed defence of opposition prepared to put their goolies on the line to prevent us from picking our way through. Even that sensational Barca side blessed with finest of defence pickers in Messi, Iniesta and Xavi often found it difficult to unlock stubborn defences so as good as our forwards may be they do need to find other ways of finding the target whilst not squandering possession so fucking regularly which was the story of these recent games. Who knows perhaps Jurgen could even get Stevie back to help some of them to practice shooting from outside the box - maybe starting with poor Joe.

  ;D

« Last Edit: March 4, 2020, 02:24:26 pm by Timbo's Goals »

Offline Timbo's Goals

  • Petrified of THE BEAST
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,470
  • JFT96
    • Timbos Liverpool
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #714 on: March 4, 2020, 02:20:46 pm »
I take it you've not been on many football forums then, Timbo.  ;)

 ;D

That's the problem SoP. I have. Too many over the years. And the upshot is that now and again I reach saturation point with all the crap. Not sure why the Barkeley comment prompted the response but hey ho it just did. Clearly there's far far worse .

Offline Timbo's Goals

  • Petrified of THE BEAST
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,470
  • JFT96
    • Timbos Liverpool
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #715 on: March 4, 2020, 02:22:21 pm »
What a weird thing to get upset about, a blue who tried to end Jordan Henderson's career. And he's nowhere near a really good midfielder.

 ;D

Yeah. Really fucking weird. And by the way, I think he's an excellent player.
« Last Edit: March 4, 2020, 02:27:02 pm by Timbo's Goals »

Offline redk84

  • (and nothing else!)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,122
  • why must we always do things the hard way?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #716 on: March 4, 2020, 02:25:12 pm »
pretty annoyed we're out this competition.
good chance at some additional silverware...even if this season is already a win because of our efforts in the league.

few players' form...not been great. The front 3. Or even the defence. It's a cluster fuck that it is all happening at the same time, whether it be because of the winter break or returning from injury or just mental exhaustion.... its not just ONE thing but these players are feeling it and will also come out of it.

It's worrying when you don't know the level of your team. But we know the level of this team, we know these boys are mustard and will eventually bring themselves out of it.

Hopefully the CL is not over for us before we do. this little patch we're on now has been a bit of a curve ball but the next 3 matches are a great opportunity to get back into it. especially the CL tie.

All Those Who Have A Red Heart Can Rejoice.
For They Have Seen GOD.

Offline Kopenhagen

  • Ban hammer of Damocles poised to drop if Everton finish fourth.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,224
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #717 on: March 4, 2020, 02:30:02 pm »
Disappointing to have lost, but I can't say I'm too upset about it today. The priority was to win the league this season; yes, we've exceeded expectations but that's still the target. However, we'll all be more upset if we lose to Atletico next Wednesday, just because the rest of the season is a dead rubber (unless we can get excited about breaking points totals, etc.). 

As for the game, you can't legislate for a clanger from the keeper like that. Their ground is always difficult, and to go down early is never easy. The second half performance was poor all around. I can't remember us getting broken on that much in a long time; it felt like Chelsea had 5+ 3v3 situations. Hard to watch Barkley just run through there without anyone putting a challenge in; if Fabinho wasn't on a yellow, he'd have cleaned him out. Easy to say in hindsight, I guess, but Gomez should have came out, pulled him down, and taken the yellow. Anyway, we're really missing Henderson covering gaps defensively, and Fabinho hasn't been up to speed since his injury - a shame considering his excellent form before that.

On the back of that performance, the Atletico game is a major concern. As we already know, they're far better tactically than Chelsea and will look to break on us. We didn't look able to cope with that same tactic yesterday.

Taki was a bright spot. Looking forward to seeing him play when we're flying and not in a disjointed, difficult match.
"There is no final victory, just as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle to be fought over and over again."

Offline Son of Spion

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Betazoid
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,186
  • BAGs. 28 Years..What Would The Bullens Wall Say?
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #718 on: March 4, 2020, 02:37:45 pm »
Agreed. Certainly as far as social media and the inane footy websites and forums are concerned. So much utter drivel spouted, most especially the desperation to find scapegoats.

The biggest concern for us at the moment is how vulnerable we are to the sucker punch counter attack invariably arising from our own errors and sloppiness in turn often fed by our seeming fruitless determination to try to pass our way through a packed defence of opposition prepared to put their goolies on the line to prevent us from picking our way through. Even that sensational Barca side blessed with finest of defence pickers in Messi, Iniesta and Xavi often found it difficult to unlock stubborn defences so as good as our forwards may be they do need to find other ways of finding the target whilst not squandering possession so fucking regularly which was the story of these recent games. Who knows perhaps Jurgen could even get Stevie back to help some of them to practice shooting from outside the box - maybe starting with poor Joe.

  ;D

This is it with forms of social media like these. Everyone can just post the first thing that comes into their minds, post when upset, post in frustration and post in anger without thinking it through first. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else, so not trying to set myself apart there. Also, everything gets amplified and people feed off each others angst, just as we all feed off each others elation when it goes spectacularly well.

Regarding the sucker punch. It can come as no surprise now, as it's happened a few times in quick succession. I'd imagine we are currently working on how to address this in upcoming games so we can nip it in the bud. I sometimes do get frustrated with our desire to pick our way through and walk it in against a tight defense. I'm no professional footballer, but if I got near the box I'd be looking to run straight at the back line. You could lose the ball, but defenders hate you running at them. You might get through, but even if you don't you could win a free kick in a dangerous position, win a penalty, or get a defender put on a booking for bringing you down. Anything to mix it up and be a bit less predictable and give defenders something to think about.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jόrgen.

Offline Fordy

  • Κασσάνδρα. ITK (rubs bridge of nose knowingly)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,058
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63
« Reply #719 on: March 4, 2020, 02:45:41 pm »
The overreaction on Fab is mind boggling to be honest. Don’t think anyone thinks his form is good at the moment. It feels like every time we lose a game a scapegoat has to be found. When you are coming back from a ligament injury it can take longer to find your rhythm. If there were set recovery times for players then football would be a lot easier. I fail to see what dropping him will do, as he needs to improve his sharpness. He can only do that by playing. There needs to be a little more support for these players.

Fabinho is an important player for us but he has been awful, dreadful since his comeback and I don't understand why he's trying to play a 6 & an 8, he needs to stay as a 6.

For me I would be dropping him on Saturday and midweek then after these games bring him back into it.

Milner or chirvella should start on Saturday with Gini and Ox. Two massive games coming up and we can't be carrying players at this moment.