Topic: FA Cup 5th Round: Chelsea 2 v Liverpool 0 ‘12 Willian ‘63

[redalways]

That wee prick from Donegal and his fucking letter... haven't been right since.

You are right. Klopp should have told him to fuck off. He has cursed us.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I'm not sure that's the reason we lost tonight. Our squad is bigger and better than Chelsea's. I thought the team we put out tonight was superior to Chelsea's too. My guess is that Chelsea, in a desperate tussle of their own in the Premier League (for 4th spot) have also spent more minutes chasing the ball than Liverpool have. They've also had the same number of Champions League games as us - possibly more if you included the qualifiers. It can't be squad size that pulled us up tonight.

Chelsea aren't competing for the title and aren't having to win every single game to a have a shot of outdoing city, which is what we've been doing since the begining of last year.

[jillcwhomever]

I'm not sure that's the reason we lost tonight. Our squad is bigger and better than Chelsea's. I thought the team we put out tonight was superior to Chelsea's too. My guess is that Chelsea, in a desperate tussle of their own in the Premier League (for 4th spot) have also spent more minutes chasing the ball than Liverpool have. They've also had the same number of Champions League games as us - possibly more if you included the qualifiers. It can't be squad size that pulled us up tonight.

To be fair, I think there is a number of factors at play. We have injuries, people coming back in who are not up to speed. We have lost our rhythm, I do think we have had a knock on effect from the last month before the break. That was some tough going and for me there was always going to come a time when we would start to feel the pace somewhat that we've set. Also obviously the way teams are closing us down are giving us fresh tactical challenges, maybe the lack of sharpness is effecting us mentally too in some of our decision making. Having said all that, I do think if we manage to gain a big win, maybe knock out Atletico, we can bring the momentum back once again. We need a big Anfield night next week for sure. 

[Kekule]

We haven’t done shit - the FA cup has devalued itself
It’s a bullshit competition terribly run by a bullshit organization who have provided no reason to value it or try and win it but nostalgia

The FA have been caught between “tradition” and “modernisation”. There is no better example of it than the presentation of the FA cup itself at Wembley.  They wanted to keep the tradition of the captain climbing the stairs up to the royal box and lifting the trophy there, but they also decided to go for the modern way of presenting the trophy whereby every one else gets their medal before the skipper who then lifts the cup.  There isn’t enough room on that balcony to do that, everyone wants to be stood in the middle to have a hold of the cup.  So you’re left with the ridiculous image of the captain having to squeeze past everyone to get his medal, cup and then lift it.

Either do it the old way, or let them do it on the pitch where there’s space and everyone can see it.

[Lad]

It's not often Jurgens reds lose two games in a row. Need to put  stop to this on Saturday. We've come too far to mess this season up.

Hmmm. Deep.

[B0151?]

It does feel like it's being understated that away against Chelsea is not an easy cup tie in the slightest. We really didn't play terribly. They deserved it 100% and the pressure told in some of the mistakes we made. But it really was a stinker of a 1st goal to concede. 2nd half they use their goal advantage to the most and do really well to close out the game.

I think that everyone has to forget how many games we've won this season. I was really frustrated after this game, but it's just football. You can't win every game and every great team strings a couple of bad performances and results together. It does our past 2 seasons and Klopp a disservice to become doubters now. (And yes, I've definitely seen a fair amount of doubt in this thread).

[Jm55]

This drop in form really isn’t all that different from last year.

Post New year we seemed to lose the ability to score, conceded 3 goals at home to Palace and looked lethargic and leggy whilst dropping points against the likes of West Ham and Leicester. Granted we didn’t lose any other than the City game but then we could easily have done so in a few of the draws.

[Yorkykopite]

Chelsea aren't competing for the title and aren't having to win every single game to a have a shot of outdoing city, which is what we've been doing since the begining of last year.

Not sure that's the way it works. Every game they play is a high-pressure game, same as us. And the same as we would be if we were now 4th in the league with 5th a point behind. In some ways, they are even more harassed than we are. That's why they played an under-strength team tonight.

[rushyman]

Also how much was their bench alone worth, a ludicrous amount of money. That's why I think its still hard for us to do the same, also the pace we set it has to have some sort of price at some stage of the season. Let's not forget how tough the last month before the break was as well, maybe since then they've found it harder to get going again after that week off. I really feel as if we need a big win to set the momentum going once again, maybe overturning the Atletico tie might kick start us again?

To start Bournemouth absolutely must be disposed of

And well ideally.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Not sure that's the way it works. Every game they play is a high-pressure game, same as us. And the same as we would be if we were now 4th in the league with 5th a point behind. In some ways, they are even more harassed than we are. That's why they played an under-strength team tonight.

We're having to play at a higher level, not drop a point to stay in touch with City, that's been the case since the start of last season. They got different agendas in the league, and winning it, with this side is not one of them. We maintained a ridiculous level for 2 seasons. If you think the same amount of effort is put in by them and us, then each to his own but I disagree wholeheartedly.

We've put in more effort to stay consistent. They're inconsistent. We're on two different planets and what is expected from us, and the pressure that we're on, is far different. They got a free hit season considering the ban, no one was expecting much from them.

[kennedy81]

Maybe Klopp felt a sense of obligation toward the reserves who have brought us so far and in that case I can’t really argue with it. How many times have you guys worked on a deal only for a dick that appear at the last minute to take all the credit. 

The reserves deserved this game. For me I don’t know what Salah and Mane is doing there. Could do with a rest.

I don't know why the likes of Jones and Williams, aren't getting more games in the league then. It's an ideal situation to give them experience and game time in the PL. Then they won't be arsed so much about missing a cup game. It gives players like Trent and Gini a rest too.
Why are we playing Sadio, Mo and Bobby in a pointless game against Watford? Stick Divock and Minamino in there, and give 2 of the front 3 a rest, then play them tonight instead.

I don't get it, but I'm not a world class manager. I'm genuinely curious as to what his thinking is.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I don't know why the likes of Jones and Williams, aren't getting more games in the league then. It's an ideal situation to give them experience and game time in the PL. Then they won't be arsed so much about missing a cup game. It gives players like Trent and Gini a rest too.
Why are we playing Sadio, Mo and Bobby in a pointless game against Watford? Stick Divock and Minamino in there, and give 2 of the front 3 a rest, then play them tonight instead.

I don't get it, but I'm not a world class manager. I'm genuinely curious as to what his thinking is.

They need to play to get rhythm. Now obviously after Saturdays game, you have to play who is the freshest and capable of doing so, but you can't rest them for weeks and then hope that they will be all in sync in the big games [ala Atletico]

[thaddeus]

I blame Lovren 

We seem to have completed our evolution from rapid counter-attacking to the most painfully slow build-up play imaginable.  For the vast majority of the season the approach of retaining possession and grinding sides down has worked wonderfully so I appreciate a bad few weeks doesn't necessarily undermine the tactic.

The last two games (Watford and second half today) have been so similar though in that we've allowed the opposition so much time to get their shape and crowd us out.  Once the ball has been lost due to trying to eventually probe through a wall of bodies we've struggled to win the first ball (Deeney and Giroud) and then looked leggy when chasing the runners.  Fabinho brings many wonderful traits to our team but sprinting back to his own goal isn't one of them.

Weirdly I think we'd do better by letting our front three get a bit isolated and trying to find them with earlier balls.  It means we'd turn over the ball more frequently but you'd hope we'd be better set to cope with that if we've not got 7-8 men ahead of the ball.  It would also increase the chances of Mane and Salah getting a bit of space instead of constantly getting crowded out.

[SuperStevieNicol]

So so frustrating. Every single player has lost form and drastically so, all at the same time. I’d take a scruffy 1-0 on Saturday. Clean sheet more important than lots of goals.

[kesey]

People who are fine with us going out of competitions and losing the chance to add to our honours.
What's that all about?

I can only speak for myself on this . I want us to win everything but Iam only really arsed about us winning the league and of course big ears again this season. Given the choice I'd take the league over anything.

We Shall Not Be Moved.

[kennedy81]

They need to play to get rhythm. Now obviously after Saturdays game, you have to play who is the freshest and capable of doing so, but you can't rest them for weeks and then hope that they will be all in sync in the big games [ala Atletico]

Yeah I get the rhythm thing, but I'm just saying play the best lads in the more important games. Everyone gets the get the same number of games, including the youngsters, and we have a better chance of winning another trophy. Sounds reasonable to me.

[jckliew]

That's 3 losses on the trot.
Fab is no longer Fab. The centre is so soft since we lost Hendo.
What a difference.

[Robinred]

Our form HAS dropped considerably since the break - there’s no denying it, and it includes the games we won against Norwich and West Ham.

I watched our Under-19s this afternoon - they got beaten by a Benfica team that were physically stronger, quicker and hungrier (until the last half hour, when in fairness they rallied, despite two red cards).

Watching that tonight was a bad case of deja vu. We had our moments, and it could be argued that the difference was in the goalkeeping performances. But that would be to gloss over the sloppiness that’s crept into the play of established first teamers, and the lack of aggression compared to Chelsea.

The ref was a homer and the fact that Azpilicueta wasn’t booked for an assault on a Origi on 25 minutes summed up his display.

But he wasn’t the reason we lost. Origi should have got the hump after that incident and the fact he’s so easily bullied by players he should be physically dominating, is candidly, a commentary on his time here.

I’m not scapegoating Divock - his contributions in key games are legion. But when Millie came on - rusty, lacking game time and sharpness, and on the wrong side of the hill careerwise - his understanding of what was missing, despite his inability to affect things, was stark.

Chelsea deserved their win. We need to get some of that physicality and when needed, yes, nastiness, back into our game.

[kingmonkey007]

That's 3 losses on the trot.
Fab is no longer Fab. The centre is so soft since we lost Hendo.
What a difference.

It's not though is it

[jillcwhomever]

That's 3 losses on the trot.
Fab is no longer Fab. The centre is so soft since we lost Hendo.
What a difference.

Fab will be fine eventually, he has come back from an injury (plus the winter break) which probably happened at the wrong time for him. We just need to grind out a win on Saturday and we are back on track.

[Gnurglan]

Which is why we need to get our first choice eleven back on the pitch. It will be interesting to see how we are then. I certainly don't think Hendo coming back is the key, but I do think he is the big drive in the team. I thought once Milner came on the pitch things looked better, it certainly wasn't as bad as Watford. I also think the pressure on the players is there the nearer they get to the target. I think we were always going to hit a rough patch, I'd hoped we'd do that after winning the title. But now the pressure will build because we've lost two games on the trot. We certainly need three points on Saturday which will hopefully boost us for the Atletico return game.

I think it will be good to have Milner back. Most important for me is that we get the front three back in form. We need someone like Minamino too, someone else than the top three who can break the patterns and create in the central areas.

[Macphisto80]

Was it Azpilicueta that raked down the back of Mane's calf and got away with it? If it was, I'm glad Mane left one on the c*nt at the end and reminded him of it. Should have done the snide c*nt harder.

[A Dick]

Was in the away end at Atletico, Watford and Chelsea and the team is unrecognisable. We don't press or counter and just end up somewhere in between doing nothing.

Lots of Klopp decisions I dont agree with at the moment, can't get my head around why we spend the whole game crossing the ball in but play Origi on the left nowadays and never through the middle. Then watch Bobby and Minamino get bullied in the air by defenders twice their size...

Its easy to get annoyed but fuck it. Gimme that league title, let social media rip into us and who cares? If we dont win a game for the rest of the season and win the league I'll have a fucking huge (tiny) erection

[Six Beardy]

To be fair, I think there is a number of factors at play. We have injuries, people coming back in who are not up to speed. We have lost our rhythm, I do think we have had a knock on effect from the last month before the break. That was some tough going and for me there was always going to come a time when we would start to feel the pace somewhat that we've set. Also obviously the way teams are closing us down are giving us fresh tactical challenges, maybe the lack of sharpness is effecting us mentally too in some of our decision making. Having said all that, I do think if we manage to gain a big win, maybe knock out Atletico, we can bring the momentum back once again. We need a big Anfield night next week for sure. 

We  lost because they played far better than we did, it's as simple as that.

Onwards and upwards though - we really need to knock Atletico out to raise the spirits of players and fans alike. Prior to the season starting we'd all have been ecstatic to win the league and not given a shit about anything else - the way the team have played  and the way this season has unfolded though we deserve so much more than just that. It'd be a real shame if things just fizzled out

[jillcwhomever]

We  lost because they played far better than we did, it's as simple as that.

Onwards and upwards though - we really need to knock Atletico out to raise the spirits of players and fans alike. Prior to the season starting we'd all have been ecstatic to win the league and not given a shit about anything else - the way the team have played  and the way this season has unfolded though we deserve so much more than just that. It'd be a real shame if things just fizzled out

There is nothing wrong with my spirit, we have every chance to win the title and we have a huge game coming up in Europe. What better time to be alive then now?

[Caligula?]

Ross fucking Barkley. Who usually couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo just waltzed through our midfield as if it wasn't there and then finished it as if he was Eden Hazard. Fuck me.

[#RedDawn2020]

Well, some people could have seen that coming from a mile away, and some people probably just couldn't.

This forum gives the opposition not enough credit, starting with some very smart people calling for Kepa to play to make it an easy win  - like he is some sort of joke. Overall I think teams have sussed us right now. We are not playing that much different to before, but the opposition does. Probably encouraged by the opposition performances in January, opponents start defending much earlier when we cross the halfway line.

The opposition have been pressing us intelligently and consistently well in the last few games when we move the ball to our forwards in the half spaces, forcing them back or into a crowded middle, often giving the ball away. Salah and Mane are suffering there. Negating some key forward movements here and limiting us to hopeful crosses as well. Havent found a solution for that. Conversely, I haven't seen a successful pressing or meaningful counterpressing moment in ages. In addition, the opposition has now started to actually regularly take their chances. Also, small margins actually starting to go consistently the other way.

Couple that with a drop-off in intensity as well as some fuck-ups in defending putting us on the backfoot in the game, and you get what you get. Overall, this results in us becoming something many posters here will be very familiar with: Absolutely flaccid. The air of invincibility is gone now, every team will raise their game and get in our faces from here on. The positive: That's plenty of room for improvement (and a needed strengthening of the squad) for next season.

To think that a couple of obviously very smart people on this forum called me a Manc twat for pointing out something that obvious already after the Atletico game, makes me laugh even more now. I will change my earlier assessment from minor miracle to major miracle to go through, be it a magically increased intensity, some unexpected fuckups from Madrid or a drastically altered game plan that ultimately pays off and unfortunately on current evidence cannot include Fabinho.

Just focus on actually getting those final 12 points and celebrate. City will be absolutely furious that they aren't within 8-12 points of us (which they easily could have been). I am glad they aren't. If everything that remains from this season is the title, it will still be awesome. Could have been much more though. And facing the prospect of City getting another 3-4 titles this season isn't that great either.

Cheers

[Kekule]

Was it Azpilicueta that raked down the back of Mane's calf and got away with it? If it was, I'm glad Mane left one on the c*nt at the end and reminded him of it. Should have done the snide c*nt harder.

Mané didn’t even leave one on him at the end though. Azpilicueta was running alongside him and tugging and grabbing his shirt. Mané tried to nudge him away and he fell over and rolled around holding his face.  Ref bought it like he bought everything Chelsea were selling and booked Mané.

2-0 up with seconds to go and still wasn’t enough for that mouthy c*nt. He still had to try and get the bloke he’d spent 90 minutes kicking lumps out of sent off. 

[Dougle]

Dire. People blamed Lovren for the last match but I don't remember him giving the ball away as often as Gomez did tonight. He, Fabinho and Robertson all seemed a step behind for most of the game, while Van Dijk looked a shadow of his usual self. We're playing like a shit Barcelona - pass, pass, pass around the middle until we get pressed and lose it. No creativity in the middle of the pitch, barely any ability to measure passes and apparently no ability to spot opposing players.

As for Minamino, I'm not sure who it was that was apparently enthused about him but it wasn't the front three. There was a actually a point towards the end there when Mo ran to intercept a pass he was about to receive. And then lost the ball. I don't known what the issue is but it's across the team and it needs fixing quickly.

It was a mixed team, Goalie, fullback, 2 midfielders and 2 forwards all without rhythm and no sense of playing together as a team.
Re-Gomez you were watching a different game to me mate. Gomez hit some lovely passes. His attempts at breaking the lines by passing and taking the ball on are some of his (for me) strongest attributes. I thought he played well. We had a bagful of chances in the first half, all created (by the team that couldn't create a thing) but missed. I thought both fullbacks played well going forward. Williams, up against some very cute experienced operators, acquitted himself very well.
Minamino just looks a bit out of step with everyone else and that's to be expected.
We gave away 2 stupid goals and that allowed Chelsea to sit, block and spring which they did.
This game could have gone either way depending on who scored first (and maybe how too, we absolutely gifted them a goal).
For me there were 2 things missing tonight, finishing and confidence and they both go together.
It sucks but that's football and that was no bunch of mugs we were playing against. Chelsea have played us 3 times this season and every game was on an knife-edge.
They got the luck, the Ref did us no favours and we didn't take our chances. So be it.

[jizzspunk]

Chelsea have played the exact way against us for the best part of 4-5 seasons..whether it was Conte or Sarri or whoever...
They seemingly come with a greater motivation than versus other opposition and get their defensive screen working effectively..concede first and it's tough going...as they can spring out with Willian or Pedro or previously Hazard and use the spaces..
Whilst over that period the results have been shared we really haven't sussed it at all and any win has been a real grind..maybe that's how it should be...let's hope they don't spoil the May party..cos you bet they will want too

[Son of Spion]

I can only speak for myself on this . I want us to win everything but Iam only really arsed about us winning the league and of course big ears again this season. Given the choice I'd take the league over anything.

We Shall Not Be Moved.

I feel similarly on this. I want us to win everything we go in for, and every season too. If we play someone at cards, I want us to beat them. Tiddlywinks too.

I hate us going out of the domestic cups, usually without a whimper, the way we do these days, but the sad reality is we do not have two teams like Abu Dhabi do. We have to prioritise some competitions, or end up winning none.

To be honest, I was 99% convinced we would go out as soon as we drew Chelsea away. The extra 1% kicked in once I saw the team sheets tonight. If we were on form then maybe I'd have thought we might get something, but even our first team have been winging it since the winter disruption (sorry, break) so I thought it nailed on we'd lose tonight. We simply have bigger fish to fry at the moment. We need to get over the line with the title and we need to seriously pull our fingers out in order to dispose of Atletico in the big one. This season we are here for the title, and pretty much everything else has to come secondary. Big Ears will always be the big one for me, but even I concede that the title simply has to be the overriding priority this season.

It's hurting that we have lost three away games on the trot now, but out of the three results only the Watford one came as a surprise to me. Even that was on the cards, and the only surprise was that it was against them. I think we've been spoiled to a monumental extent over the past two seasons. I think we've forgotten that we've actually been living the dream for so long, and that kind of relentless form is actually unsustainable. Check out Abu Dhabi. The most expensively assembled side in history, apparently unstoppable for two seasons ... now 22 points behind this season's leaders.

Anyway, we regroup and play the first team proper against Bournemouth. After that we will get a more accurate feel for where we are form-wise.

 

[gregorio]

makes me nostalgic for the good old days when we were strolling to league titles and the likes of Chelsea would regularly turn us over in the cup

[Son of Spion]

makes me nostalgic for the good old days when we were strolling to league titles and the likes of Chelsea would regularly turn us over in the cup

I remember a shite Chelsea dumping a brilliant Liverpool out of the cup 4-2 in 1978. I can still feel that horrible empty feeling inside when I recall it.

[telekon]

Is hendo actually going to fix all these problems?

Very strange this sentiment that because Hendo will be back everything will be fine. I think we'll be fine soon enough, every team goes through a slump in the span of a season. I love Hendo, but to think he'll fix everything is strange to me.

[thejbs]

Wasn't it Chris Kavanagh who was VAR on the Lo Celso call and didn't give Harry Maguire a red?  I know he's a Manc, but I don't think that's anything to do with it. He's just a consistently shite ref.

[Macphisto80]

Mané didn’t even leave one on him at the end though. Azpilicueta was running alongside him and tugging and grabbing his shirt. Mané tried to nudge him away and he fell over and rolled around holding his face.  Ref bought it like he bought everything Chelsea were selling and booked Mané.

2-0 up with seconds to go and still wasn’t enough for that mouthy c*nt. He still had to try and get the bloke he’d spent 90 minutes kicking lumps out of sent off. 

I was wondering what it was all about. Wishful thinking on my behalf. Mane should have just smacked the c*nt and took a red. Wouldn't have mattered.

[Morgana]

I don't know why the likes of Jones and Williams, aren't getting more games in the league then. It's an ideal situation to give them experience and game time in the PL. Then they won't be arsed so much about missing a cup game. It gives players like Trent and Gini a rest too.
Why are we playing Sadio, Mo and Bobby in a pointless game against Watford? Stick Divock and Minamino in there, and give 2 of the front 3 a rest, then play them tonight instead.

I don't get it, but I'm not a world class manager. I'm genuinely curious as to what his thinking is.

Can't afford to prioritise giving youngsters experience until the league is wrapped up. There is all of April and May for that, assuming we win it when Crystal Palace come to Anfield.

Wasn't it Chris Kavanagh who was VAR on the Lo Celso call and didn't give Harry Maguire a red?  I know he's a Manc, but I don't think that's anything to do with it. He's just a consistently shite ref.

That guy is a Manc? All of a sudden everything makes sense now.

[Six Beardy]

I remember a shite Chelsea dumping a brilliant Liverpool out of the cup in the 70s. I can still feel that horrible empty feeling inside when I recall it.

Me too. Clive fckin Walker

Having said that I hate us losing any match, even if it's just a pre-season friendly. I also hate people making excuses as if it doesn't even matter, or was the refs fault, or cos we had injuries, or we were concentrating on some other match or prioritising some other competition, or it's ok cos we lost some other similar match with a better team in the past. It's all bollocks - every defeat hurts; and so it should do. All this 'ah well kumbaya, excuses excuses' shite does my fckn head in, it goes against everything this club ever stood for.  It seems these days daring to  make negative comments about a player for a bad game is classed as a bigger sin than expressing disappointment when the club gets knocked out of a cup. 

Onwards and upwards though - we've a great team and they've done brilliantly this season but if they want to be considered alongside the great teams of the past they really need to up their game for the run in to the end of the season. To see everything fizzling out would be heartbreaking  (*thinks back to Houllier saying we were 10 games from greatness)

[thejbs]

I was wondering what it was all about. Wishful thinking on my behalf. Mane should have just smacked the c*nt and took a red. Wouldn't have mattered.

Apart from ban of up to 3 league games.

I'd love to see it again as I really couldn't understand what the ref saw.

[jambutty]

I'm afraid other teams have the attitude 'Liverpool don't like it up 'em' and are playing us harder to good effect.  Sadio takes a load of punishment.