Topic: Statues: Should They Stay or Should They Go?

[Sangria]

I’m against slavery so I’m glad that the statue of the slave trader swam with the fishes for a bit. Just found it funny.

That's not much of a distinguishing marker. Who isn't?

[ljycb]

That's not much of a distinguishing marker. Who isn't?

Just giving my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me.

[Red-Soldier]

Just giving my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me.

Not sure if he was disagreeing.  Just asked you who isn't against slavery??

[ljycb]

Not sure if he was disagreeing.  Just asked you who wasn't against slavery??

I don’t know who else is or isn’t against slavery - was just saying that I’m dead against it and that’s why I found the statue being thrown in the river funny.

[Red-Soldier]

I don’t know who else is or isn’t against slavery - was just saying that I’m dead against it and that’s why I found the statue being thrown in the river funny.

Fair enough.

I'm pretty sure I don't know of anyone who is in favour of slavery.

[Sangria]

He was an admirer of Hitler, was invited by the Nazi's to a meeting to discuss a collaboration between the Hitler youth and the scout and a massive homophobe.

The Lewis Hamilton comparison is shite.

And Sefton Delmer was the closest British associate of the leading Nazis, who interviewed Hitler, whom Hitler and Goering and others considered a personal friend (cf. Hitler calling on Delmer to witness the ruins of the burned Reichstag). With his background, the British government assumed he was a Nazi sympathiser.

[ljycb]

Fair enough.

I'm pretty sure I don't know of anyone who is in favour of slavery.

Me neither, or at least I’ve never known of anyone who has admitted to being in favour of it.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Read there are coaches booked to transport various far right groups to London tomorrow.  Likes of Yaxley-Lennon et al. So potential clashes with police in the middle.  All in the midst of a pandemic.

These companies should be identified and boycotted.

[Zeppelin]

I'm pretty sure I don't know of anyone who is in favour of slavery.

Well, there's the bible for a start



Leviticus 25:44-46 New International Version (NIV)

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

[El Lobo]

Uh oh

‘So I suppose we should knock down all churches’ incoming

[Red-Soldier]

Well, there's the bible for a start



Leviticus 25:44-46 New International Version (NIV)

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

Yeah, I don't frequent with any of those fellas.

[killer-heels]

Cancel Jesus.

[Gnurglan]

Well, there's the bible for a start



Leviticus 25:44-46 New International Version (NIV)

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

Now post that on Twitter/Facebook and see what happens.

Or don't. It would bring out a few loons from both the Mid-East and the Mid-West.

[jillcwhomever]

Lesley Riddoch made an interesting point on her podcast this week. She is very interested in Nordic culture, and said that someone from one of the Nordic countries had hypothesised to her that it is precisely because we have so many ancient stone monuments, and buildings, that we are reticent to pull down because they are our history, that we are so backward looking and conservative as a country.

The Nordic countries until recently built everything from wood, so don't have any ancient statues, or buildings. Everything is relatively modern and not bogged down in history and tradition.

Just a hypothesis though, there wasn't any study to back it up or anything but it makes a bit of sense to me.

I was going to answer this point yesterday but ran out of time. I'm sorry but I cannot agree with the comment about there being too many stone monuments. As someone who finds things like that endlessly fascinating, I can't for the life of me understand why you'd contemplate getting rid of them. Some of them have been there for generations, its part of the heritage of the country and there is such mythology surrounding them. How could anyone not be interested in finding out how the ancients brought those stones over from Ireland to create Stonehenge, considering how primitive transport was in those days. Say nothing of how many people must have been involved in the job of transporting them across country, its an amazing feat. To be honest, I can't think of anything worse than just concentrating on modern stuff, as there was an art to how those early settlers built their shrines and understanding the beliefs they had especially with regard to their thinking of the sun and moon's role in the world.

Sorry, I realise this has got very little to do with statues, but I just had to make the point. 

[12C]

Penny Lane road signs sprayed over in 'disgraceful' attack

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/penny-lane-road-signs-sprayed-18407831#ICID=Android_EchoNewsApp_AppShare

"Many historians say has no slave trade links"

Use the app.

It’s earliest known name on a map of the area was  Pennis Lane apparently

[J-Mc-]

The statues shouldn’t have been made in the first place, but now that they are, I feel that they should be placed in a museum, one that highlights just how bad slavery was and how modern day racism has derived from it.

Removing them completely is like trying to whitewash history.

They need to be in a place were future generations can learn and grow knowing exactly what happened in the past. Only then do you start on the right track of starting to diminish racism.

You can’t change the older generations who grew up surrounded with racism on famous TV shows, you’re asking them to change 50 odd years of a mindset and life they’ve always known, but you can help the younger generations realise why it was and still is wrong.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Saw a video earlier of paul mccartney and james corden graffitiing it (penny lane sign) and it was already covered in other graffiti

[CraigDS]

It’s earliest known name on a map of the area was  Pennis Lane apparently

**giggle**

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

**giggle**

Oh, very mature

Bet youve gorra small willy

[12C]

If he was such a Nazi sympathiser, why was he listed in the Sonderfahndungsliste G.B?

Notably, Lloyd George wasn't...

Presumably because the Nazis believed the Scouts were capable of resisting the invasion, much as the Hitler Youth formed part of the Volksturm. Armed with rudimentary weapons they formed the last line of defence to the allies.

[killer-heels]

Saw a video earlier of paul mccartney and james corden graffitiing it (penny lane sign) and it was already covered in other graffiti

Corden is facing calls to axe his Gavin and Stacey show due to homophobic, racist, sexist and fat shaming jokes. Wonder if the fat fucker will do the right thing and take his show off the TV.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Corden is facing calls to axe his Gavin and Stacey show due to homophobic, racist, sexist and fat shaming jokes. Wonder if the fat fucker will do the right thing and take his show off the TV.

Hope so. Never seen or watched anything hes in(That hes famous for) but have caught him as a guest on stuff. Dont find him funny at all

Saw you post something aboot the inbetweeners a couple of nights ago. Think you said it was at risk of being taken down. Ihavnt watched that either but whats the reason behind it being taken off whatever channels?

[killer-heels]

Hope so. Never seen or watched anything hes in(That hes famous for) but have caught him as a guest on stuff. Dont find him funny at all

Saw you post something aboot the inbetweeners a couple of nights ago. Think you said it was at risk of being taken down. Ihavnt watched that either but whats the reason behind it being taken off whatever channels?

The jokes in there are massively sexist and homophobic.

[El Lobo]

Anything that potentially removes Gavin and Stacey and Big Bang Theory from....just everywhere, is no bad thing

[killer-heels]

Anything that potentially removes Gavin and Stacey and Big Bang Theory from....just everywhere, is no bad thing

Big Bang Theory, Mash Report and Mrs Brown’s Boys need binning for me. I reckon though the Mash Report is the model of shows we will be made to watch.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

The jokes in there are massively sexist and homophobic.

Aaah. Ta

[killer-heels]

Aaah. Ta

Id be willing to sacrifice The Inbetweeners but as I have said before I am joining a Football ‘firm’ if they remove Friends and The Thick of It off any format.

[Speedy Molby]

The jokes in there are massively sexist and homophobic.

There was an Inbetweeners double bill on E4 on Tuesday night.

[killer-heels]

There was an Inbetweeners double bill on E4 on Tuesday night.

Reckon Nigel Frottage was made programme scheduler for that day.

[Red-Soldier]

The jokes in there are massively sexist and homophobic.

It's pretty funny to be honest.  I've been enjoying all the reruns recently.

If we start faffing around with comedy, then we all might as well pack it in.

[CraigDS]

Over half the shows on TV will have to go if Gavin and Stacey does.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Big Bang Theory, Mash Report and Mrs Brown’s Boys need binning for me. I reckon though the Mash Report is the model of shows we will be made to watch.

the mash report website is actually funny, the tv show is utter shite but it’s what the cancel culture brigade seem to see as acceptable, as only they could find that funny. That clip from the woke support group is very relevant to this debate, can’t see it anywhere but it’s basically those people in the sketch who want stuff cancelled

[Speedy Molby]

It's pretty funny to be honest.  I've been enjoying all the reruns recently.

If we start faffing around with comedy, then we all might as well pack it in.

Yes  think some are taking these shows too literally. With the Inbetweeners, the major from Fawlty Towers and Alf Garnett, there is a reason that the writers are putting the 'offending' words in the mouths of bigots and idiots.

[El Lobo]

Over half the shows on TV will have to go if Gavin and Stacey does.

As long as it’s the right half, then it’s so worth it

[oldfordie]

Yes  think some are taking these shows too literally. With the Inbetweeners, the major from Fawlty Towers and Alf Garnett, there is a reason that the writers are putting the 'offending' words in the mouths of bigots and idiots.

Why?

[TepidT2O]

Some people see the world in an entirely binary manner.

And people just aren’t all bad or all good.  That’s not how life is, that’s not how people are.

[CraigDS]

Why?

In some cases (not all) it's to highlight and poke fun at the ignorance of these people - not to nod along and agree with what they say. If comedy is well written it can highlight these types of people.

[Elmo!]

I was going to answer this point yesterday but ran out of time. I'm sorry but I cannot agree with the comment about there being too many stone monuments. As someone who finds things like that endlessly fascinating, I can't for the life of me understand why you'd contemplate getting rid of them. Some of them have been there for generations, its part of the heritage of the country and there is such mythology surrounding them. How could anyone not be interested in finding out how the ancients brought those stones over from Ireland to create Stonehenge, considering how primitive transport was in those days. Say nothing of how many people must have been involved in the job of transporting them across country, its an amazing feat. To be honest, I can't think of anything worse than just concentrating on modern stuff, as there was an art to how those early settlers built their shrines and understanding the beliefs they had especially with regard to their thinking of the sun and moon's role in the world.

Sorry, I realise this has got very little to do with statues, but I just had to make the point. 

It wasn't really me advocating getting rid of them, more just hypothesising if it has an effect on our collective psyche, possibly even in a negative way. however much we appreciate them and feel positive about them.

[jillcwhomever]

It wasn't really me advocating getting rid of them, more just hypothesising if it has an effect on our collective psyche, possibly even in a negative way. however much we appreciate them and feel positive about them.

Yeah, yeah I get that. I'm not convinced that it does though to be honest, as I think only saddos like me feel this way about things such as these. It's more a mythology type of thing than a collective psyche feeling. Don't even get me onto the moon as a subject, I'd be there all night. 

[Dr. Beaker]

Yeah, yeah I get that. I'm not convinced that it does though to be honest, as I think only saddos like me feel this way about things such as these. It's more a mythology type of thing than a collective psyche feeling. Don't even get me onto the moon as a subject, I'd be there all night. 

When the taliban did for the Buddhas of Bamiyan, and then recently Palmyra got largely destroyed by Isis, I found that made me madder than when they actually kill people - I can't actually justify why that is, it's just how it is I'm afraid.