Author Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)  (Read 371727 times)

Offline thejbs

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The main things are manufacturing slowing down and travel (all kinds, but especially air).

Offline whiteboots

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I would like to think that the obvious improvement in pollution levels may signal a change in our behaviour - somehow I doubt it though.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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 But then you have an economic system that is fuelled by overconsumption, disposable goods and global trade. And when that falters, millions of ordinary people suffer. I can't see how you can have both a healthy (or even, ultimately, inhabitable) planet and the current economic and social models.



Quite simply we can't and if we want to survive as a race the current economic and social models have to be replaced ASAP (like now) with something much more sustainable.
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Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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I would like to think that the obvious improvement in pollution levels may signal a change in our behaviour - somehow I doubt it though.

Sadly not a chance, people will soon forget how pleasant the last few weeks have been in terms of lack of air and noise pollution. Their greed and excitement at "getting back to normal" will probably lead to increased consumption, at least in the short term.

Massive shame as this is a great chance to reset.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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The potential benefit of this pandemic is the argument that we/politicians should be listening to the scientists.

We've yet to hear big business really pushing for the economy to be reopened because they'd be seen to be the reason we get a second wave should would hit from opening too soon.
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Deutsche Bank Research
Region   International                             Periodical    Talking Point

https://www.dbresearch.com/servlet/reweb2.ReWEB?rwnode=RPS_EN-PROD$PROD0000000000435632&rwsite=RPS_EN-PROD&rwobj=ReDisplay.Start.class&document=PROD0000000000508259

Corona crisis and climate change: New technology is what we need
Eric Heymann

Public attention has shifted away from climate change as the coronavirus pandemic has spread. Nevertheless, mitigating climate change and making sure that the growing global population has access to climate-friendly energy remain among the key challenges of this century. These issues will still be on the agenda when the pandemic is over. It is therefore an encouraging sign that many policymakers and corporates have said they will not only take into account, but pay more attention to climate protection when re-opening the economy. The heated discussion about which instruments are best suited to ensure climate protection will continue for years to come, though.

A comparison between the coronavirus response and the measures against climate change makes sense, as there are some similarities, but also major differences between the two issues. We believe that the response to the pandemic holds a number of lessons for climate policy.

Key characteristics: Development over time, regional spread and causes
The coronavirus pandemic is obviously an acute threat. The virus may cause a deadly illness. Older people and people with certain pre-existing conditions are particularly susceptible. In this sense, the virus has a selective impact. If and wherever healthcare systems were or are overloaded, the corona crisis certainly causes emergencies. In contrast, the question how acute the problem of climate change is may be up for debate. The term “climate emergency”, which some activists use, indicates urgency. While we do not want to discuss the issue in detail, climate change is certainly a less acute issue than the coronavirus pandemic. Climate change has a selective impact, too; at this point in time, it tends to affect mainly those for whom adapting to it is more difficult.

Both the coronavirus and climate change are global phenomena. The etymology of the term “pandemic” already suggests that “everybody” (“pan” means “all” in Greek) is affected. Turning to climate change, the geographical source of greenhouse gas emissions is quite unimportant. Nevertheless, there is a significant difference between the two problems. Individual countries can take national measures to contain the spread of the coronavirus: they can simply close their borders. While stopping international travel is certainly not an adequate medium to long-term solution, it helps to contain new infections in the short run and is effective even without co-operation from other countries. In contrast, national measures are largely ineffective in the fight against climate change if the rest of the world does not pursue ambitious goals as well. The contribution of national climate-protection policies becomes more insignificant if a country has only a small share in global greenhouse gas emissions. The difference becomes obvious when we look at an example of a small island state: External border closures would help to eliminate the coronavirus in the country within a short time. However, such a country is clearly not in a position to make a major contribution to climate protection.

Let us now take a look at the causes of the two problems. Climate change is to a large extent caused by human activities. While the exact contribution of these activities is unclear, it seems clear that burning fossil fuels is a major cause of climate change. From an economist’s vantage point, climate change is a global negative external effect. The negative external impact of greenhouse gas emissions which are behind humanity’s contribution to climate change is not (adequately) priced in. In contrast, the link between the coronavirus pandemic and human activities is by far less obvious. One can argue that, if mankind increasingly encroaches upon the habitat of wild animals, the probability increases that viruses spread from animals to people. However, such events have regularly taken place over time, even when considerably fewer people lived on earth.

Government measures and their acceptance
Environmental economics and common sense alike suggest that an acute threat requires comprehensive countermeasures. The corona crisis is a good example of this. Governments around the world are relying on far-reaching command and control regulation measures, including bans on a number of economic and private activities. Many countries have entered an economic and social lockdown. Regulatory law has a major disadvantage, however: it tends to lead to significant economic losses and costs. In order to mitigate the economic impact of the lockdown, countries have adopted comprehensive subsidies and aid programmes for the affected sectors and private households of their economies. These measures constitute the second line of the response to the corona crisis. Quite apart from the economic losses, the government measures severely interfere with basic human rights and people’s quality of life. For now, most people accept and comply with the restrictions. However, nobody can really believe that people will continue to do so indefinitely. Policymakers regularly underline that the current situation, with all its constraints, is highly exceptional.

Climate protection policy uses a mix of different instruments. In this area, too, command and control regulations (obligations, bans, quotas, caps etc.) play a significant role. Many technologies are subsidised; just think of renewables. At the same time, and alongside regulatory law, policymakers use market-based instruments, such as energy or carbon taxes or emissions trading. These tools aim to internalise the negative impact of greenhouse gas emissions. While it is quite possible to “put a price” on carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, it is no viable idea to put a price on the coronavirus.

Right now, climate protection measures are widely accepted in many countries. In fact, survey participants often say that they would support stricter climate protection policies. One reason for the high degree of acceptance is certainly that the costs of climate protection measures are not very transparent and spread across a long period of time. People bear them by paying higher prices for everyday goods or paying taxes (or not benefiting from tax cuts). Moreover, climate policy has only small effects on everyday life so far. As long as people can afford it, they can travel without restrictions, live in large flats or houses and heat them as they like, use more and more electronic consumer goods, surf the internet at will, download films and music, buy any car they like, eat meat and tropical fruit etc. However, even as people say in surveys that they are in favour of climate protection they are often less willing to shoulder (considerably) higher costs for this goal.

Lessons from the corona crisis for climate protection policy: New technology and adaptation promise better success than sacrifices
The coronavirus crisis has shown that people accept major restrictions laid down in regulatory law if there is an acute threat. At the same time, the global debate about easing the lockdown also shows that acceptance of such measures wanes over time as the threat recedes. We do not believe that people in western democracies will accept similar constraints of everyday life for climate protection purposes in the coming years. First, the threat perceived at the individual level is not sufficiently acute, second, people feel they can adapt to climate change over time and to a certain extent, and third, every citizen and even every country can make only a small contribution to climate protection. Like it or not, but most people simply will not be willing to make sacrifices if others don’t.

There is the option of relying on higher carbon prices (instead of regulatory law) to make people behave in a more climate-friendly way. Market-based instruments are indeed more efficient and effective (both in economic and ecological terms) than either regulatory law or technology-specific subsidies. In fact, this seems to be the only realistic way to achieve the ambitious long-term climate targets. However, if carbon prices rise above a certain level and people can no longer afford everyday conveniences (such as travelling), majorities in western democracies may gradually shift. From our vantage point, there is a significant risk that excessive climate protection measures (implemented either via energy and carbon prices or via regulatory law) may strengthen parties on the political margins.

The corona crisis has also shown that millions of jobs hinge on everyday activities and luxuries which are currently out of bounds and which may appear superfluous at first sight. Due to its significant economic impact, it is impossible to fight the corona crisis simply by a continued lockdown of the economy. In the long run, new technologies are the only option. In the coronavirus context, these new technologies take the form of efficient drugs and vaccines, which are currently being researched around the world. In the meantime, we can only try to contain the virus by ensuring good hygiene, relying on social distancing etc. In addition, we need to adapt to the virus.

In some respects, the corona crisis is a blueprint for climate protection policy. In that area, too, we need better technologies than those available today. We need high-performance, low-carbon, controllable and cheap sources of energy which permit climate-friendly growth. That is what the world’s best minds should focus on in the coming years. Most people will be unwilling to accept persistent, massive growth losses and/or restrictions on individual consumption and production choices for climate reasons in the long run; moreover, the costs would be extremely high. Once again, as long as the necessary technology is not available, we will have to try and slow down climate change by using the tools available today. And, of course, some adaptation to climate change will be necessary.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Renewables top coal in the US for the first time in more than 130 years

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Renewable energy consumption in the U.S. topped coal consumption in 2019, the first time this has occurred in more than 130 years.

The last time renewable energy was more widely consumed than coal was prior to 1885, when wood was the main source of energy, according to the Energy Information Administration (EIA).

The EIA released the new finding on Thursday, adding that coal use has been declining over the past decade while renewable energy has increased.

Last year, coal consumption fell 15 percent while renewable consumption increased by 1 percent compared to 2018.

The year 2019 was the sixth consecutive year in which coal consumption dropped.

Electricity generation from coal is one area of usage that has been on the decline, sinking to its lowest level in 42 years. Meanwhile, natural gas consumption in electricity has increased in recent years, according to the EIA.

And in terms of renewable electricity generation, wind beat out hydro last year for the first time, becoming the most-used renewable energy source for electricity.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/500029-renewables-top-coal-in-the-us-for-the-first-time-in-more-than-130

Offline BarryCrocker

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Renewables top coal in the US for the first time in more than 130 years


Renewable energy consumption in the U.S. topped coal consumption in 2019, the first time this has occurred in more than 130 years.

The last time renewable energy was more widely consumed than coal was prior to 1885, when wood was the main source of energy, according to the Energy Information Administration (EIA).

The EIA released the new finding on Thursday, adding that coal use has been declining over the past decade while renewable energy has increased.

Last year, coal consumption fell 15 percent while renewable consumption increased by 1 percent compared to 2018.

The year 2019 was the sixth consecutive year in which coal consumption dropped.

Electricity generation from coal is one area of usage that has been on the decline, sinking to its lowest level in 42 years. Meanwhile, natural gas consumption in electricity has increased in recent years, according to the EIA.

And in terms of renewable electricity generation, wind beat out hydro last year for the first time, becoming the most-used renewable energy source for electricity.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/500029-renewables-top-coal-in-the-us-for-the-first-time-in-more-than-130

FFS, don't let Donnie know that burning wood is considered a renewable resource. He'll say that forest fires like in California shows how renewables pollute the atmosphere much more badly than coal or start deforestation for America to be powered by wood again.

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Offline Bincey

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'Britain is about to pass a significant landmark - at midnight on Wednesday it will have gone two full months without burning coal to generate power.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52973089

Offline BarryCrocker

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'Britain is about to pass a significant landmark - at midnight on Wednesday it will have gone two full months without burning coal to generate power.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52973089
Don't all the TVs turn-off when the wind stops blowing?
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Offline redbyrdz

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'Britain is about to pass a significant landmark - at midnight on Wednesday it will have gone two full months without burning coal to generate power.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52973089

Haha, just put that is the 'things that make you happy thread'. :)
Hope they stay switched off!
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Offline 24/7

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Paging all climate change deniers!

Arctic Circle sees 'hottest-ever' recorded temperatures



Temperatures in the Arctic Circle are likely to have hit an all-time record on Saturday, reaching a scorching 38C (100F) in Verkhoyansk, a Siberian town.

The record still needs to be verified, but it appears to have been 18C higher than the average maximum daily temperature in June.

Hot summer weather is not uncommon in the Arctic Circle, but recent months have seen abnormally high temperatures.

The Arctic is believed to be warming twice as fast as the global average.

Verkhoyansk, home to about 1,300 people, sits just inside the Arctic Circle, in remote Siberia. It has an extreme climate with temperatures plunging in January to an average maximum of -42C and then surging in June to 20C.

But a persistent heatwave this year in the Arctic Circle has worried meteorologists. In March, April and May, the Copernicus Climate Change service reported that the average temperature was around 10C above normal.




Earlier in June, parts of Siberia recorded 30C, while in May, Khatanga in Russia - situated in the Arctic Circle at 72 degrees north - set a new May temperature record of 25.4C.

"Year-on-year temperature records are being broken around the world, but the Arctic is warming faster than anywhere else on Earth," said Dr Dann Mitchell, associate professor in atmospheric science at the University of Bristol. "So it is unsurprising to see records being broken in this region. We will see more of this in the near future."


Is this evidence of climate change?
Analysis by Simon King, BBC Weather meteorologist

Heatwaves in the Arctic aren't unusual. Weather patterns around the world can align in such a way that hot air is transported quite far northward and colder air from the poles southward.

Over the last few months a large area of high pressure in eastern Russia has been dominant. This has led to southerly winds bringing warmer air from near the tropics, leading to higher than average temperatures.

However, the persistence of this weather pattern has led to a longevity and scale of heat that is worrying. This is consistent with what climatologists believe will happen in the Arctic with climate change.

Most scientists agree that over the past 30 years, the Arctic has warmed at a rate of twice the global average.

The graphic below shows that across the globe, through the period 1960-2019, average air temperature has generally increased by around 1C.

However, as you head closer to the North Pole - latitude 90° - the reds become darker. This shows how the temperature has increased here more than anywhere else - by around 4C.






Why should we be worried about warming in the Arctic?

Warming in the Arctic is leading to the thawing of once permanently frozen permafrost below ground.

This is alarming scientists because as permafrost thaws, carbon dioxide and methane previously locked up below ground is released.

These greenhouse gases can cause further warming, and further thawing of the permafrost, in a vicious cycle known as positive feedback.

The warmer temperatures also cause Arctic ice to melt at a faster rate, causing sea levels to rise.

There is also an element of positive feedback here, says BBC Weather, because the loss of highly reflective white ice means that the ground and sea absorb more heat. This leads to more warming.


The impact of wildfires are also a consideration. Last summer, they ravaged parts of the Arctic. Although they are common in summer, high temperatures and strong winds made them unusually severe.

They typically start in early May before peaking in July and August but by late April this year they were already ten times bigger in the Krasnoyarsk region of Siberia compared to the same time last year, Russia's emergencies minister said.


Hottest year ever?


Well, 2020 is certainly shaping up to be a contender.

The Met Office, the UK's national weather service, reckons there's a 50:50 chance it'll be the hottest year ever recorded

Much of northern Europe and Asia has had an exceptionally mild spring and early summer with temperatures 10C higher than normal in some areas.

The hottest year to date is 2016. It is still a nose ahead, but the margins are "very close".

Of course, this should come as no surprise.

"We've upset the energy balance of the entire planet," cautions Prof Chris Rapley of University College London. Year after year we see temperature records being broken, the eminent climate scientist says.

"This is a warning message from the Earth itself," he tells me. "We ignore it at our peril."
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 07:46:49 pm by 24∗7 »

Offline Bioluminescence

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Paging all climate change deniers!

Arctic Circle sees 'hottest-ever' recorded temperatures



At this point I have to say that I don't think we're going to manage to avoid major climate change. There still doesn't seem to be a will to tackle the climate crisis seriously, certainly not on the scale that's required. We're still seeing a push for changes in individual lifestyles but this isn't enough and diverts our attention away from the structural changes needed. But Michael Mann has a new book coming out soon in which he argues that it's still not too late and offers ways forward. He's obviously been much more involved in this than me so I hope he's right. I'm looking forward to reading his book.

Offline Bioluminescence

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As always, needs to be replicated though these are not unexpected findings. The issue for the UK is that our houses and cities are not designed for such temperatures. This is something we'd have to look into, and adapt as much as possible.

Likelihood of 40C temperatures in UK is ‘rapidly accelerating’

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The likelihood of the UK experiencing deadly 40C temperatures for the first time is “rapidly accelerating” due to the climate crisis, scientists have found.

The research shows that such searing heat could become a regular occurrence by the end of the century unless carbon emissions are cut to zero. Global heating has already made UK heatwaves 30 times more likely and extreme temperatures led to 3,400 early deaths from 2016-19.

The highest temperature recorded in the UK is 38.7C, set in Cambridge in July 2019, while the summer of 2018 was the joint hottest on record. The new analysis found an increasing risk of even higher temperatures.

Today, a high of 40C is expected once every few centuries. But this would be every 15 years in a medium emissions scenario, in which carbon cuts are made but not enough to meet the 1.5C or 2C limits agreed by nations in the 2015 Paris climate deal. In a worst-case scenario, with emissions continuing the trend of recent decades unchecked, somewhere in the UK would reach 40C every 3.5 years.

The new analysis follows research in 2019 that used the same medium emissions scenario to indicate that by 2050 London will have the same climate that Istanbul has today, Leeds will be like Melbourne, Cardiff like Montevideo in Uruguay, and Edinburgh like Paris. All these foreign cities have already broken 40C.

“The probability of recording 40C, or above, in the UK is now rapidly accelerating,” said the scientists in the study, published in the journal Nature Communications. Its lead author, Nikolaos Christidis, at the Met Office Hadley Centre, said: “The rate of change is remarkable.”

“Last year, we had the record temperature in the UK and [Public Health England] reported spikes in mortality,” Christidis said. “When these kinds of events happen, we have detrimental impacts to our transport infrastructure, agricultural catastrophes and water shortages. We need to reduce our vulnerability to these kinds of impacts.”

Prof Piers Forster, at the University of Leeds and not part of the Met Office study, said: “Heatwaves are a real risk to life in the UK, especially if we do not begin modifying our homes, workplaces and hospitals to manage their expected overheating.”

The government’s official advisers, the Committee on Climate Change, said on 25 June “the UK is poorly prepared for the very serious impacts of climate change, including … overheating”.

“However, we should note that in terms of heatwaves, the UK will get off lightly compared with most other nations,” said Forster. “Heatwaves in the major crop-growing regions of the world could have more profound effects, both globally and for the UK.”

The Met Office research combined temperature measurements at 1km scale across the UK with 16 large-scale climate models to calculate the likelihood of an extreme temperature being reached somewhere in the nation in a particular year.

The significantly larger risk in the high-emissions scenario compared with the medium-emissions scenario shows cutting carbon emissions makes a big difference in reducing the frequency of extreme heat, from breaching 40C once every 3.5 years to once every 15 years.

The scientists also examined the likelihood of exceeding 35C. This occurs in the UK about every five years at present, but would be an annual occurrence by the end of the century in either emissions scenario.

The south-east and south regions of the UK are most affected by the rising heat, because other regions benefit more from the cooling influence of the Atlantic ocean. The study found that many areas in the north for which 30C is extremely rare may exceed that level at least once per decade by 2100.

Some scientists argue that the high-emissions scenario is unrealistic given the action being taken by nations to at least curb carbon emissions. However, Forster said: “Fortunately, the increasing use of fossil fuels portrayed in [the high-emissions scenario] is unlikely, but the average temperature levels seen at the end of the century under this scenario still remain a real risk if some of the worst-case amplification effects in the Earth system come to pass, such as massive permafrost thawing.”

Offline Snail

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2574 on: August 20, 2020, 01:33:01 pm »
Fucked aren't we. As in, pretty imminently within our lifetimes things are going to get bad.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2575 on: August 20, 2020, 01:36:18 pm »
Death Valley just recorded the highest ever temperature anywhere on the surface of the Earth.  54C, 130F
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2576 on: August 20, 2020, 01:37:41 pm »
Fucked aren't we. As in, pretty imminently within our lifetimes things are going to get bad.

You just have to see how quickly people started whining about 'deserving a holiday' and to see all the pampered middle class kids jetting off on tours of Asia before their gap year, but never missing an opportunity to lecture everyone else to see how seriously they take the prospect of climate change.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2577 on: August 20, 2020, 01:40:22 pm »
Fucked aren't we. As in, pretty imminently within our lifetimes things are going to get bad.

Yea it's going to be much worse than most folks think, It's happening quickly and it's going to speed up as various feedback loops start to take effect .

Even if we immediately did all we could to reduce the scale of the change it's still going to be bad. The problem is for numerous reasons we just aren't going to do the necessary. Science can't save us this time, we already have the necessary technology, what is missing is the political and social will.
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2578 on: August 20, 2020, 01:58:54 pm »
If there is some scant consolation with the global pandemic is that the number of vehicles on the road and planes in the air has dropped.

Some estimates put global CO2 emissions down 8%. NO2, PM2.5 (particles <2.5um), CO and Sulphur Dioxide values have also dropped in major cities around the world as well.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2579 on: August 20, 2020, 02:20:55 pm »
If there is some scant consolation with the global pandemic is that the number of vehicles on the road and planes in the air has dropped.

Some estimates put global CO2 emissions down 8%. NO2, PM2.5 (particles <2.5um), CO and Sulphur Dioxide values have also dropped in major cities around the world as well.

There will be no long-term benefits to these brief declines.

The drop during Covid has made no difference at al:

China’s air pollution has overshot pre-pandemic levels as life begins to return to normal

Air pollution in China has risen above levels seen before the coronavirus pandemic for the first time. Having dropped dramatically in the height of lockdown, the concentration of harmful gases seen recently surpasses levels during the same period last year, according to the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA).

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/07/pollution-co2-economy-china/

raffic on Britain's roads is now at a similar level to that seen in the late 1980s and early 1990s, the AA says.

It slumped to between 35% and 40% of the pre-coronavirus volume at the beginning of lockdown but has since doubled to around 75%.

AA head of roads policy Jack Cousens told the BBC that traffic could return to normal "by the end of July".

But Friends of the Earth said pollution should not be allowed to "creep" back to the pre-pandemic level.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53098950

'Surprisingly rapid' rebound in carbon emissions post-lockdown
This article is more than 2 months old

Busier roads to blame, with fears of worse to come as workers shun public transport

Carbon dioxide emissions have rebounded around the world as lockdown conditions have eased, raising fears that annual emissions of greenhouse gases could surge to higher than ever levels after the coronavirus pandemic, unless governments take swift action.

Emissions fell by a quarter when the lockdowns were at their peak, and in early April global daily carbon dioxide emissions were still down by 17% compared with the average figure for 2019, research published last month in the journal Nature Climate Change found.

Now daily carbon emissions are still down on 2019 levels, but by only 5% on average globally, according to an updated study.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/11/carbon-emissions-in-surprisingly-rapid-surge-post-lockdown

Carbon Levels Surge Again as Countries Emerge from Lockdown

The temporary, and limited, reduction in emissions during the pandemic points to the need for larger structural changes

Greenhouse gas emissions are roaring back as coronavirus lockdowns lift, according to updated projections from the Global Carbon Project.

Emissions in China have returned to 2019 levels—a sharp reversal from earlier this year when daily carbon dioxide levels in the country plunged by a quarter. In the United States, daily emissions were down by 7% in early June, compared with decreases of roughly a third in April.

European and Indian emissions have followed similar patterns. All told, daily global emissions were 5% below 2019 levels in early June, up from a peak reduction of 17% in April.

“We expected emissions to increase when lockdowns ease and the economy picks up. What’s striking is how fast it is happening,” said Rob Jackson, a Stanford University professor who chairs the Global Carbon Project.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-levels-surge-again-as-countries-emerge-from-lockdown/

Analysis: China’s CO2 emissions surged past pre-coronavirus levels in May

China’s CO2 emissions have surged back from the coronavirus lockdown, rising by 4-5% year-on-year in May, analysis of new government data shows.

Emissions fell an estimated 25% in the six weeks following the lockdown, from early February to mid-March, before bottoming out, as factories and power plants reduced output. Road and air traffic also fell dramatically.

But the latest data shows the rebound in emissions has been rapid, as evidenced by the return of air pollution to pre-crisis levels.

The increase in CO2 in May was driven by coal power, cement and other heavy industries, which appear to be bouncing back faster than other sectors of the economy. This is prompting concerns about the global implications of a coal-heavy recovery in China.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-emissions-surged-past-pre-coronavirus-levels-in-may

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2580 on: August 20, 2020, 07:26:48 pm »
I think what worries me most is the erosion of trust in scientists. It's nothing new when it comes to climate scientists of course, there have been attempts to discredit them for years now. But seeing yet more anti-mask BS on my Facebook timeline makes me think that those who peddle disinformation/conspiracy theories will carry on being successful in limiting the extent of the changes we need to make in order to avert the worst of climate change. We're once again seeing wildfires devastating California, compounding the problems caused by COVID, glaciers collapsing, record-breaking temperatures and more - this has the potential to get much worse.

What's disheartening is the fact that scientists are telling us there's still time to avert a catastrophe but without political will that sounds quite optimistic right now.



Picture by Noah Berger. There are more on his Twitter account.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2581 on: August 20, 2020, 08:19:27 pm »
glaciers collapsing


The Greenland ice sheet lost a record amount of ice in 2019, equivalent to a million tonnes per minute across the year, satellite data shows.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/20/greenland-ice-sheet-lost-a-record-1m-tonnes-of-ice-per-minute-in-2019
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2582 on: August 20, 2020, 08:39:44 pm »
Yea it's going to be much worse than most folks think, It's happening quickly and it's going to speed up as various feedback loops start to take effect .

Even if we immediately did all we could to reduce the scale of the change it's still going to be bad. The problem is for numerous reasons we just aren't going to do the necessary. Science can't save us this time, we already have the necessary technology, what is missing is the political and social will.

There are too many people invested in maintaining the status quo; people who will be touched least by this growing calamity.  They continue to stall, hamstring and general douse any kind of coherent response to the crisis because they have a vested interest in things staying as they are.  That's far worse than a lack of political will.
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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2583 on: August 20, 2020, 08:55:26 pm »
There are too many people invested in maintaining the status quo; people who will be touched least by this growing calamity.  They continue to stall, hamstring and general douse any kind of coherent response to the crisis because they have a vested interest in things staying as they are.  That's far worse than a lack of political will.

Correct, and I don't see how we (the 99%) can change that.

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2584 on: August 20, 2020, 09:12:56 pm »
There are too many people invested in maintaining the status quo; people who will be touched least by this growing calamity.  They continue to stall, hamstring and general douse any kind of coherent response to the crisis because they have a vested interest in things staying as they are.  That's far worse than a lack of political will.

I don't think it's either-or really. The lack of political will is the result of vested interests pushing for the status quo. Whereas the latter is unlikely to change, that's not the case for political will. There seems to be some promising research going on at the moment, looking at the role of storytelling in changing minds. This isn't a new insight really - I remember reading a few years ago about the failure of simply stating facts when trying to encourage people to change their minds. I know that Katharine Hayhoe has also had some success, not least within evangelical Christian communities, by finding common ground and discussing solutions. I think carrying on arguing about the evidence is slowing any progress we could be making.

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2585 on: August 20, 2020, 09:16:48 pm »

The Greenland ice sheet lost a record amount of ice in 2019, equivalent to a million tonnes per minute across the year, satellite data shows.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/20/greenland-ice-sheet-lost-a-record-1m-tonnes-of-ice-per-minute-in-2019

Thank you. I saw this earlier but hadn't got round to reading it. Those figures are incredible, that a huge increase in record melt, even if we know how variable these things can be. Interesting to see more about blocking events - they've been mentioned more often in the past two to three years with the possibility that they may become more frequent as the planet heats up. Not sure what the evidence suggests.

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2586 on: August 21, 2020, 06:03:32 pm »
Near-simultaneous hurricanes expected in the Gulf of Mexico at the beginning of next week. Obviously very rare, happened in 1933, and can only hope that the forecast changes over the next couple of days.


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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2588 on: August 27, 2020, 04:05:30 am »
Hurricane Laura is going to be devastating . As a meteorology professor in Colorado notes

Philip Klotzbach@philklotzbach
#HurricaneLaura has continued to intensify and now has maximum winds of 150 mph. Only one #hurricane on record (since 1851) has made landfall in Louisiana with max winds that strong - The Last Island Hurricane of 1856 (also had 150 mph max winds).

Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2589 on: August 27, 2020, 06:52:50 am »
We’ve enjoyed a few months here in HK of excellent weather and clean air. But the pollution is back, generally an indication that the Chinese economy is picking back up.

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2590 on: August 27, 2020, 07:23:35 am »
As long as the current socio-economic models are followed we are fucked.
As potential change will affect greedy old white mens money and power it will never happen fast enough.
Just look at our leaders. They will murder thousands and thousands over gas and oil.The rest of us have been trained for consumerism since birth. We are fucked.

Offline 24/7

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2591 on: August 27, 2020, 07:59:48 am »
Let them eat cake - cos soon they can't afford bread........

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53921121?fbclid=IwAR2B-eyW3Q61Hzxqnp5CDLF5UnYiMFFlukrkH3Pf7fP6o9ZfSR6-P6NqXBM

Bread price may rise after dire UK wheat harvest

By Justin Rowlatt
Chief environment correspondent

The price of flour and bread is set to rise after what could be the worst UK wheat harvest in 40 years, the industry is warning.

Farmers say that the extreme weather over the last year is likely to mean wheat yields are down by up to 40%.

As a result, some millers have already increased the price of flour by 10% and they warn a no-deal Brexit could push up prices even further.

And we're likely to see more of the same weather in future, experts say.

The UK Met Office told BBC News that the extremes of wet and hot conditions that have marked this year are likely to become more common as our climate continues to change.

Triple-whammy
Wheat farmers have been hit with a triple-whammy of severe weather, according to the National Farmers' Union (NFU).

First off, unusually heavy rain in the autumn meant many farmers could not plant as much wheat as they usually would. What they did plant did not thrive in the waterlogged soil.

That was followed by the wettest February on record.

Storms Ciara and Dennis battered much of the UK in the early and middle of the month, causing widespread flooding. They were followed by Storm Jorge at the end of February.

Then we had the very hot and dry spring which caused droughts in many areas of the UK, making it hard for the crop to take up nutrients from the soil.

Finally, the heavy rain this August meant many farmers have had to delay harvesting their crops.

"We're looking at a 30% reduction in our good fields, in some of our poor fields it's is even more", said Matt Culley, an arable farmer from Hampshire who is chair of the NFU's crop board.

Some of his grain stores are virtually empty where normally they would be full at this time of year.

He said much of the wheat that the rain has forced him to leave in the fields will only be fit for animal feed.

It is, said Mr Culley, the worst harvest in the 37 years he's been farming, with the most dramatic variation in the weather he has ever known.

Weather extremes
A spokesperson for the Met Office explained: "UK climate projections show a trend towards hotter and drier summers and warmer, wetter winters."

Since 85% of the wheat used for flour is grown here in the UK, flour millers will have to make up the shortages caused by this year's dire harvest with imports.

And, because the price of wheat has been increasing steadily since the summer, the price of flour will rise, says Alex Waugh who runs the National Association of British and Irish Millers.

Paul Munsey says further rises in the price of flour are to be expected. He says wheat prices are already up by £40 a tonne - an increase of more than 20%.

Because the margins millers operate on are very tight, they will have no choice but to pass some of this increase on to consumers by raising prices.

"It's reached the point where we can't afford to keep selling flour at the price that we are," Paul Munsey of Wessex Mill in Oxfordshire told BBC News.

He has already increased the price of his flour by 12% and warns there may be further price rises to come.

Brexit impacts
In the event of a no-deal Brexit, wheat imports could be liable for a £79 per tonne tariff, said the National Association of British and Irish Millers. This figure is derived from the World Trade Organization (WTO) standard tariff for wheat.

Wheat prices are always volatile, but this would represent a further 40% hike in wheat prices which, once again, would be likely to drive up the price of flour.

And when the price of flour rises, you can expect the price of bread to rise a little - as well as the price of biscuits, pastries and cakes.

Peter Towpik runs a craft bread bakery with his wife Agata. She says she is - very reluctantly - considering raising her prices.

It will be only the second time she has done so since she and her husband Peter started the business a decade ago.

"Flour is our main ingredient and all the prices are increasing at the moment, so that will probably force us to put our prices up," she said.

"We love our customers and want as many of them as possible to be able to buy from us. But there's less money coming into the company and we've got employees and rent to pay."

Offline TSC

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2592 on: September 19, 2020, 09:14:25 am »
BBC news reporting that 2020 has seen so many Atlantic storms that those who name storms have reached the end of the alphabet, so are now resorting to the Greek alphabet, and next two storms will be called Alpha and Beta.

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2593 on: September 19, 2020, 12:33:10 pm »
Only the second time they've had to resort to the Greek alphabet, with tropical storm Beta named after forming in the Gulf of Mexico. The previous record number took us to Zeta last time round, so four more named storms should match that record. With about two more months to go (I think) it looks like we may well smash that record.

Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2594 on: October 11, 2020, 03:58:15 pm »
Just watched the new David Attenborough documentary on Netflix, worth a watch.

Interesting he came out with this too although I'm somewhat disappointed he doesn't really directly mention this in the actual documentary, which is definitely the biggest issue: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54268038
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2595 on: November 29, 2020, 03:17:04 am »
Sydney swelters through hottest November night on record ahead of another 40C day

Parts of NSW brace for second day of scorching weather and fire danger, with gusty southerly forecast to arrive later on Sunday afternoon

Sydney has sweltered through its hottest November night since records began more than 160 years ago, with temperatures expected to climb to 40C in the city for a second consecutive day.

The mercury dropped to just 25.3C at 1.09am on Sunday at Sydney’s Observatory Hill and rose above 30C shortly after 4.30am. The previous record for the warmest November minimum temperature was set in 1967 at 24.8C.

The extreme heat is also posing a fire danger across New South Wales with a watch and act alert issued for a bushfire in Northmead in Sydney’s west shortly after 1pm on Sunday. There were 45 bush and grass fires burning across the state at that time.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/29/sydney-and-northern-nsw-to-swelter-through-another-day-of-above-40c-heat
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2596 on: November 29, 2020, 07:24:09 am »
Yeah, it was lovely. I do so enjoy living in a house with no aircon or insulation, nor roof space to put said insulation. If we get another big bushfire season I'll be so fucked off with this country.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2597 on: November 29, 2020, 10:36:07 am »
Yeah, it was lovely. I do so enjoy living in a house with no aircon or insulation, nor roof space to put said insulation. If we get another big bushfire season I'll be so fucked off with this country.

Lucky that you have a bunch of climate deniers in government  ;)

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2598 on: December 29, 2020, 06:54:42 pm »
I know 2020 has been an awful year but I can't help fearing that we're going to have many worse years to come, in the reasonably near future. Those methane pockets are melting.

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Re: Climate change is already here. How bad it gets is still up to us - Discuss
« Reply #2599 on: January 6, 2021, 07:05:29 pm »
I know 2020 has been an awful year but I can't help fearing that we're going to have many worse years to come, in the reasonably near future. Those methane pockets are melting.

We're stuffed.

Covid is a relative storm in a tea cup compared with what is coming and much sooner than most think.


Anyway more bad news on this subject

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55561536
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